Never mind.

[SteelerInLebanon]

This isn’t a thread for bitching about hating Mike but honest discussion without hate. He isn’t leaving in all likelihood.

For Mike to get us where we want this team to go consistently he needs to change his formula. What he relies on right now absolutely can win a championship but it relies to heavily on things he can’t control and are subject to the whims of randomness. His reliance on splash plays and turnovers while effective when working isn’t reliable enough without a young hot QB to bail him out.

To make things less chaotic he needs to change his offensive attitude and learn to take what the other team is going surrender and make it work rather than trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole when you don’t have the talent needed to do so. He has to swallow his pride or stubbornness and do what KC is doing. Take what is there. It is what other teams are doing to beat us and unless we turn them over it is too unlikely we will get the needed splash plays currently.

WE have to learn to beat teams without relying on splash. That means we need less Pickens and more Hines Ward types.

 

[Steelr4evr]

If that was going to happen,it would have already happened 10 years ago. What you see, is what you get.

We're going to find out in a few days if the old dog is willing to learn new tricks.

The team needs this playoff win,just as bad as Baltimore. Both will get a shitstorm of endless offseason criticism with a loss.

Both deserved too.

 

[Coryea]

Tomlin needs to get back to what made him good coach. He needs to put his ego aside, stop being so damn stubborn and realize he's not as smart as he thinks he is.
Hire a real offensive mind, and LET that guy run his offense and scheme how he wants. Hire a real DC and allow that guy to run his system. We had Brian Flores in the building and let him go, now he's coordinating one of the better defensive units (stats wise). He doesn't want anyone here that will challenge him or his thinking.
The reason we were good when he was hired is because he had LeBeau running the defense, Arians running the offense.
Tomlin needs to just be the motivator, push the right buttons as to what motivates the players, etc.

 

[Steeltime]

SIL, you make a good point but the undeniable fact is this: The past 12 years have proven Tomlin is not going to change. He's not. That means 2-man defensive lines, and soft coverage on 3rd and long, and running up the middle on 1st down 60% of the time, and a patent refusal to throw over the middle, damn the success when doing so.

The solution, I am forced to say once again, is to simply not care much until Tomlin is gone. That's the only real option.

 

[stillwright]

This isn’t a thread for bitching about hating Mike but honest discussion without hate. He isn’t leaving in all likelihood.

For Mike to get us where we want this team to go consistently he needs to change his formula. What he relies on right now absolutely can win a championship but it relies to heavily on things he can’t control and are subject to the whims of randomness. His reliance on splash plays and turnovers while effective when working isn’t reliable enough without a young hot QB to bail him out.

To make things less chaotic he needs to change his offensive attitude and learn to take what the other team is going surrender and make it work rather than trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole when you don’t have the talent needed to do so. He has to swallow his pride or stubbornness and do what KC is doing. Take what is there. It is what other teams are doing to beat us and unless we turn them over it is too unlikely we will get the needed splash plays currently.

WE have to learn to beat teams without relying on splash. That means we need less Pickens and more Hines Ward types.

Nice post. Just wondering though....why when I and others say the exact same thing(or similar) we are considered haters? Just curious.


That said. I believe the only way we ever win anything is if Rooney mandates Tomlin to let his Coordinators....coordinate. That Tomlin doesn't put in fingers in the bowl. New ideas and concepts schematicly.

 

[steelhurt]

He’s going to do what he does because it’s tolerated and non losing seasons are the benchmark for success in Rooney world.
Here is something to ponder.
If Tomlin were to step away after the season(not at all suggesting as much) look what he leaves behind vs what he stepped into in 2007.
The foundation was there in 2007 a year removed from a SB in 2005 but what the hell is there now?
No franchise QB, one head case WR who may want out, no feature RB with Warren most likely the only one staying, some promise on the OL but with questions at LT and maybe at RG and RT.
On defense an old DL in Cam, not too much else there except Benton.
Aging TJ Watt and Minkah.
Promise at one CB in JPJ but nothing much else.
A FA Safety in Elliott.
Some good ILBers and OLbers.
Crappy coordinators, position coaches.
No fifth sixth round draft choices.
Pretty sad!

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

He’s going to do what he does because it’s tolerated and non losing seasons are the benchmark for success in Rooney world.
Here is something to ponder.
If Tomlin were to step away after the season(not at all suggesting as much) look what he leaves behind vs what he stepped into in 2007.
The foundation was there in 2007 a year removed from a SB in 2005 but what the hell is there now?
No franchise QB, one head case WR who may want out, no feature RB with Warren most likely the only one staying, some promise on the OL but with questions at LT and maybe at RG and RT.
On defense an old DL in Cam, not too much else there except Benton.
Aging TJ Watt and Minkah.
Promise at one CB in JPJ but nothing much else.
A FA Safety in Elliott.
Some good ILBers and OLbers.
Crappy coordinators, position coaches.
No fifth sixth round draft choices.
Pretty sad!

This is for constructive discussion. Leave the bitching and moaning for other threads. What needs to improve or change with the fact he is not leaving, not complaining that he isn't leaving.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Nice post. Just wondering though....why when I and others say the exact same thing(or similar) we are considered haters? Just curious.


That said. I believe the only way we ever win anything is if Rooney mandates Tomlin to let his Coordinators....coordinate. That Tomlin doesn't put in fingers in the bowl. New ideas and concepts schematicly.

The difference is trying to create a discussion without the negativity. He is not leaving so why moan about it, let's discuss what has to change with him here in one thread without the he needs to go part. It gets old particularly knowing it isn't happening.

 

[stuntmanmike]

He needs to have higher coaching standards for his assistant coaches… both noll and Cowher had some of the best coaches in the game. Tomlin has crap. It’s like he is afraid to hire anyone that might be considered better than him. He needs to come down off the ego high horse. We are not turning the corner on many of these young players they aren’t improving much. We drafted Washington, jones, pickens all out of Georgia young and full of potential… best college program in the nation… they are not improving… not one of them… time to get out the wallet and hire decent coaches… we all know tomlin ain’t going no where but under the circumstances he needs to get the best coaches available!

 

[Hypocycloids]

Nice post. Just wondering though....why when I and others say the exact same thing(or similar) we are considered haters? Just curious.


That said. I believe the only way we ever win anything is if Rooney mandates Tomlin to let his Coordinators....coordinate. That Tomlin doesn't put in fingers in the bowl. New ideas and concepts schematicly.

Just as that all those that come in defense of him are considered Tomlin nut huggers.

But you can’t deny that there are Tomlin critics here that actually do hate the guy.

You become a nut hugger when you provide a valid argument to defend him and the haters ain’t having any of it.

 

[BLITZ]

They need to mix up the gameplan.
If I can look at how they line up on off. And guess run or pass 95% of the time, you know defenders can.
Mix it up throughout the game. Do not be the same. Call plays 1 way in the 1st half and then let them adjust to that, only to come out the 2nd have and play differently

 

[steelhurt]

This is for constructive discussion. Leave the bitching and moaning for other threads. What needs to improve or change with the fact he is not leaving, not complaining that he isn't leaving.

I think I said I wasn’t suggesting he was leaving.
He’s not going to change his ways and you want to know why? Because he’s extremely insecure, egotistical, stubborn and thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room. And for the most part he is because he surrounds himself with weak coaches who are not threats.
And as long as the standard is non losing seasons the bar being set low, this crap will only continue.
The only thing you can expect to change is who the scapegoat will be this time.

 

[warriors42]

The difference is trying to create a discussion without the negativity. He is not leaving so why moan about it, let's discuss what has to change with him here in one thread without the he needs to go part. It gets old particularly knowing it isn't happening.

I understand what you're saying, the problem though is that Tomlin himself has proven that the only way this team improves is by him leaving.

See Mike has backed himself into a corner. He can not hire good assistants and let them actually do their job because it exposes what a fraud he is and has been since he has gotten this job. I don't think Mike is stupid he is just a ****** head coach. he has gotten by on nothing but word salad.

So in all actually this thread makes no sense because you know as well as the rest of us the problem has been and still is Mike Tomlin. so all you did was start a thread to try and deflect the issues into another direction not wanting anyone to actually speak the truth, because the truth is the issues with this team rest entirely on Tomlin and Rooney. Tomlin for being a ****** coach and Rooney for not firing he sorry ***.

So as much as many of us are living in a fairy tail wanting him gone you're living in a fairy tail thinking there could be any discussion on this team improving unless our fairy tail comes true. I for one will no longer ***** foot around the issue and the issue is he is not a good coach. I would love to see him go somewhere else so the rest of the world can see what a fraud he is.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

Nice post. Just wondering though....why when I and others say the exact same thing(or similar) we are considered haters? Just curious.


That said. I believe the only way we ever win anything is if Rooney mandates Tomlin to let his Coordinators....coordinate. That Tomlin doesn't put in fingers in the bowl. New ideas and concepts schematicly.

In a world where we would get this, it still would not change anything because Mike does not hire innovative coordinators. He only hires those that he deems to be smarter than, and I don't believe I'm being negative in saying that as there's enough evidence to back me up.

So, while I agree that Rooney should mandate to let the coordinators coordinate without interference, those same coaches need to be above the line to begin with.

There really is only one solution.

 

[slashsteel]

Just as that all those that come in defense of him are considered Tomlin nut huggers.

But you can’t deny that there are Tomlin critics here that actually do hate the guy.

You become a nut hugger when you provide a valid argument to defend him and the haters ain’t having any of it.

I don’t hate him I just know he has run his course here. I see reports saying there could be a roster turnover.Absolutely nothing will change without a HC change. Fans can stencil that on their forehead as fact.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

This is for constructive discussion. Leave the bitching and moaning for other threads. What needs to improve or change with the fact he is not leaving, not complaining that he isn't leaving.

Honestly SIL, nothing will change unless Mike wants to change, that's not bitching and moaning, just observable facts.

 

[steelhurt]

Why the **** does the word hate always have to enter the conversation just because fans are criticizing the HC?
It’s not hate it’s that we die hard fans have grown accustomed of what to expect. It’s the same record that keeps playing over and over again.
I don’t think anyone hates the man on here. Hell, none of know him personally it’s just nothing changes and then you have posters in here saying this what Tomlin needs to change.
He isn’t going to change, period, it’s who he is and most of us here know that but it doesn’t mean we hate him.
I want a change in HC and a complete philosophical change from this defensive minded way of doing things to a more progressive offensive minded coach. That’s all! I would wish Tomlin the very best and nothing but good health and great success in his future, Does that sound like hate?

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Honestly SIL, nothing will change unless Mike wants to change, that's not bitching and moaning, just observable facts.

Well that is what I wanted to discuss what you think he needs to change assuming the fact he isn't leaving and that him leaving isn't part of the discussion.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Why the **** does the word hate always have to enter the conversation just because fans are criticizing the HC?
It’s not hate it’s that we die hard fans have grown accustomed of what to expect. It’s the same record that keeps playing over and over again.
I don’t think anyone hates the man on here. Hell, none of know him personally it’s just nothing changes and then you have posters in here saying this what Tomlin needs to change.
He isn’t going to change, period, it’s who he is and most of us here know that but it doesn’t mean we hate him.
I want a change in HC and a complete philosophical change from this defensive minded way of doing things to a more progressive offensive minded coach. That’s all! I would wish Tomlin the very best and nothing but good health and great success in his future, Does that sound like hate?

I just spent a long weekend in Pittsburgh and hate for a subsection of the fans is absolutely the appropriate word. I gave my critic of him here. I realize he isn't going anywhere unless he wants to so why bother even bringing that up and being surly about it. The whole point is to have a Tomlin leaving free critique.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

I think I said I wasn’t suggesting he was leaving.
He’s not going to change his ways and you want to know why? Because he’s extremely insecure, egotistical, stubborn and thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room. And for the most part he is because he surrounds himself with weak coaches who are not threats.
And as long as the standard is non losing seasons the bar being set low, this crap will only continue.
The only thing you can expect to change is who the scapegoat will be this time.

I give up. I guess it is an impossible ask.

 

[Confluence]

Just as that all those that come in defense of him are considered Tomlin nut huggers.

But you can’t deny that there are Tomlin critics here that actually do hate the guy.

You become a nut hugger when you provide a valid argument to defend him and the haters ain’t having any of it.

Most long term posters here have seen the good (over a decade ago) and the bad (recently). It's clear that Tomlin will not change of his own accord, and as SIL suggests, he isn't going anywhere.

The concrete solutions -- for change in team leadership/management -- offered thus far all involve Tomlin relinquishing some power to OC and DC. Ironically, that takes him lower than 100% of his position now, which is kinda like demoting him, which is on the spectrum of options that include his leaving.

It is absurd to discuss improving the Steelers by handcuffing the guy who just got an extension to lead the team.

And he has demonstrated that he will not adapt (praying to be wrong on this exact point on Saturday!).

He literally needs a psychologist, like Pickens, to remove his unwanted behaviors and fears for the betterment of the team around him.

Or, he needs gone.
SIL, I know that is not what you wanted to read here, but it is the logical extension of your OP, because the initial conditions are absurd.

Since someone may propose that incredibly unique magic bullet solution, this is a great brainstorming approach to the problem of Tomlins playoff losses mounting; if that does not come forward then the conclusion has to be, again, that Tomlin needs gone.

Einstein's famous quote about doing the same thing and expecting different results being insane is directly applicable here.

 

[steelhurt]

I give up. I guess it is an impossible ask.

You’re a moron!

 

[steelhurt]

I just spent a long weekend in Pittsburgh and hate for a subsection of the fans is absolutely the appropriate word. I gave my critic of him here. I realize he isn't going anywhere unless he wants to so why bother even bringing that up and being surly about it. The whole point is to have a Tomlin leaving free critique.

We’ve been critiquing him for years. Nothing has changed nor will it change with him.
The only person that can enforce change is Art Rooney II and he won’t.

 

[stillwright]

Just as that all those that come in defense of him are considered Tomlin nut huggers.

But you can’t deny that there are Tomlin critics here that actually do hate the guy.

You become a nut hugger when you provide a valid argument to defend him and the haters ain’t having any of it.

If SteelerinLebanon repeated his opening post a few more times....guess what? He is now a "hater" in his and your eyes. Simply stating this isn't a hate thread but a discussion of what Tomlin could do differently....Hell. That is all that us "haters" do. I simply post my dislikes of what Tomlin does....week after week. Year after year. Nothing changes.

Some got there quicker than others. I was a Tomlin supporter early on. On the fence about him for 5 or so years. Last 5 years I started to post my displeasures of Tomlin. This past year or 2....many posters are now also posting negatively about Tomlin. More than I have ever seen. Long time posters. Hell.....it is a messageboard. So why not.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

If SteelerinLebanon repeated his opening post a few more times....guess what? He is now a "hater" in his and your eyes. Simply stating this isn't a hate thread but a discussion of what Tomlin could do differently....Hell. That is all that us "haters" do. I simply post my dislikes of what Tomlin does....week after week. Year after year. Nothing changes.

Some got there quicker than others. I was a Tomlin supporter early on. On the fence about him for 5 or so years. Last 5 years I started to post my displeasures of Tomlin. This past year or 2....many posters are now also posting negatively about Tomlin. More than I have ever seen. Long time posters. Hell.....it is a messageboard. So why not.

I don't put you in that category Still. You criticize I rarely see you hate or act like a jackass. We may disagree on things, but it rarely ever gets personal or to name calling. There is a distinct difference. I am a Tomlin supporter, but I certainly don't think he is close to perfect. I have no problem discussing his imperfections. I also will continue to point out what I feel he has done well, and I think there are a lot of things he has done well. Some too well and it has actually hurt him in the long run. I started a thread with the hopes of having those discussions free from the constant calls for him to be fired simply because we know it won't happen. That apparently is impossible.