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SteelerInLebanon said:
This isn’t a thread for bitching about hating Mike but honest discussion without hate. He isn’t leaving in all likelihood.

For Mike to get us where we want this team to go consistently he needs to change his formula. What he relies on right now absolutely can win a championship but it relies to heavily on things he can’t control and are subject to the whims of randomness. His reliance on splash plays and turnovers while effective when working isn’t reliable enough without a young hot QB to bail him out.

To make things less chaotic he needs to change his offensive attitude and learn to take what the other team is going surrender and make it work rather than trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole when you don’t have the talent needed to do so. He has to swallow his pride or stubbornness and do what KC is doing. Take what is there. It is what other teams are doing to beat us and unless we turn them over it is too unlikely we will get the needed splash plays currently.

WE have to learn to beat teams without relying on splash. That means we need less Pickens and more Hines Ward types.
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You don't want him gone anyway. You're his biggest defender on here no matter how much we lose. So wtf ever. This is just a kiss his *** thread. So you keep puckering up.
 
SteelerInLebanon said:
This isn’t a thread for bitching about hating Mike but honest discussion without hate. He isn’t leaving in all likelihood.

For Mike to get us where we want this team to go consistently he needs to change his formula. What he relies on right now absolutely can win a championship but it relies to heavily on things he can’t control and are subject to the whims of randomness. His reliance on splash plays and turnovers while effective when working isn’t reliable enough without a young hot QB to bail him out.

To make things less chaotic he needs to change his offensive attitude and learn to take what the other team is going surrender and make it work rather than trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole when you don’t have the talent needed to do so. He has to swallow his pride or stubbornness and do what KC is doing. Take what is there. It is what other teams are doing to beat us and unless we turn them over it is too unlikely we will get the needed splash plays currently.

WE have to learn to beat teams without relying on splash. That means we need less Pickens and more Hines Ward types.
Click to expand...
For me, if Tomlin's staying for the Steelers to win a Super Bowl he has to change his entire mindset and get away form the ultra conservative offense (and use the middle of the field) and bend but not break and hope for a turnover defence. I'd also say who cares about this never a losing season bullshit and treat 2025 as a rebuilding year as there are four big holes on the roster, as well as some smaller holes. At some point you have to stop patching and start renovating or rebuilding.

I would have a big coaching clearout - keep Arthur Smith (the offensive issues have been the same through multiple OC's which suggests the current problems are a HC philosophy problem rather than an OC play calling problem), Danny Smith and the linebackers coach. Definitely a New DC, OL coach, DL coach (there doesn't seem to have been much player development behind the long-term starters) and QB coach.

I use 2025 to set the roster up to go all out on a quarterback in 2026. If you look at franchise quarterbacks, the situation a quarterback is drafted into seems to be a better indicator of future success than drafting them high, so I want the rest of the offensive holes and coaching fixed before I worry about a quarterback.

The major gaps in the current roster (taking into account who is currently signed for 2025) as I see it are RB 1 and 2, WR 1, DL replacement for Heyward and QB 1 and 2. Sure there are other positions that could be upgraded (1 starting CB, Safety) but in a salary cap and draft environment you can't have elite players at every position:

Offence

QB 1 and 2 - I keep Fields on a three year contract as a bridge and let Wilson go. Either bring in a sub $10m free agent or late draft pick to be the backup;
RB 1 and 2 - Re-sign Warren as RB 2 and draft a RB 1;
WR 1 - At this point Pickens is performing at a number 2 level so I look to draft a WR 1. Austin and Roman Wilson should be 3 and 4. As Pickens is entering his contract year, sign him to a reasonable 3 year contract or trade him and use the pick received to draft a WR 2.
OL - in theory the OL should be set with Jones, Seumalo/Daniels, Frazier, McCormick and Fautanu.
TE is set.

If they can finish 2025 with a solid OLine, decent talent at WR and RB to go with Freiermuth and Washington at TE, and improved coaching they then have the pieces to help a quarterback drafted in 2026 succeed.

Defence

DL - need to draft a Heyward replacement;
CB - re-sign Donte Jackson, find a slot corner in free agency;
Linebacker - set as they run three deep at ILB and OLB;
Safety - starters are set.

Additional depth across the D can be obtained through free agency, UDFA's and late round draft pciks.

2026 - use 2026 and 2027 first round plus 2026 second and 2027 third to trade up for a quarterback if there's one Tomlin thinks is likely to be the quarterback of the future.
 
Aussie_Steeler said:
For me, if Tomlin's staying for the Steelers to win a Super Bowl he has to change his entire mindset and get away form the ultra conservative offense (and use the middle of the field) and bend but not break and hope for a turnover defence. I'd also say who cares about this never a losing season bullshit and treat 2025 as a rebuilding year as there are four big holes on the roster, as well as some smaller holes. At some point you have to stop patching and start renovating or rebuilding.

I would have a big coaching clearout - keep Arthur Smith (the offensive issues have been the same through multiple OC's which suggests the current problems are a HC philosophy problem rather than an OC play calling problem), Danny Smith and the linebackers coach. Definitely a New DC, OL coach, DL coach (there doesn't seem to have been much player development behind the long-term starters) and QB coach.

I use 2025 to set the roster up to go all out on a quarterback in 2026. If you look at franchise quarterbacks, the situation a quarterback is drafted into seems to be a better indicator of future success than drafting them high, so I want the rest of the offensive holes and coaching fixed before I worry about a quarterback.

The major gaps in the current roster (taking into account who is currently signed for 2025) as I see it are RB 1 and 2, WR 1, DL replacement for Heyward and QB 1 and 2. Sure there are other positions that could be upgraded (1 starting CB, Safety) but in a salary cap and draft environment you can't have elite players at every position:

Offence

QB 1 and 2 - I keep Fields on a three year contract as a bridge and let Wilson go. Either bring in a sub $10m free agent or late draft pick to be the backup;
RB 1 and 2 - Re-sign Warren as RB 2 and draft a RB 1;
WR 1 - At this point Pickens is performing at a number 2 level so I look to draft a WR 1. Austin and Roman Wilson should be 3 and 4. As Pickens is entering his contract year, sign him to a reasonable 3 year contract or trade him and use the pick received to draft a WR 2.
OL - in theory the OL should be set with Jones, Seumalo/Daniels, Frazier, McCormick and Fautanu.
TE is set.

If they can finish 2025 with a solid OLine, decent talent at WR and RB to go with Freiermuth and Washington at TE, and improved coaching they then have the pieces to help a quarterback drafted in 2026 succeed.

Defence

DL - need to draft a Heyward replacement;
CB - re-sign Donte Jackson, find a slot corner in free agency;
Linebacker - set as they run three deep at ILB and OLB;
Safety - starters are set.

Additional depth across the D can be obtained through free agency, UDFA's and late round draft pciks.

2026 - use 2026 and 2027 first round plus 2026 second and 2027 third to trade up for a quarterback if there's one Tomlin thinks is likely to be the quarterback of the future.
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This is a good post, but I get the sense that this whole non-losing season thing has taken priority over winning in the playoffs. They play conservative on offense and win with defense because they can. It doesn't achieve anything more than a loss in the playoffs if they make it. I really think he's afraid to have a bad season even though that could result in a really good QB. If this is going to be the case, Khan will have to be aggressive to accumulate draft picks as ammo to move up to get a franchise QB again, because that's the only way we are going to see consistent real offensive football again. A QB who transcends a system and can create...yeah, I know that is going to be really hard to get.
 
If he could stay in his lane and they got top OC and DC that might work. But that is not happening. So it's just live with this. I do not think he will get another contract unless he does what I'm sure he us not capable of.
 
SteelerInLebanon said:
My apologies for coming across condescending. I was simply trying to have one thread where we could discuss strategies and the x and os that could be changed by Tomlin without having to argue about whether he should or shouldn’t be the coach. Real football discussion not the endless debate should he stay or should he go. I enjoy debating the actual football part and the strategy part. Divorced from the angst of the rest. Every thread devolves into this partisan divide. Much like politics.
Click to expand...
You’re condescending to people who disagree with you all the time, it’s no accident.

the changes in X and O’s you want to discuss don’t happen because Tomlin refuses to do that especially on defense. The offense has been slipping back to the Canada years late in the season, that’s on Tomlin

The Tomlin fan club loves to tell people to shut up about politics here, so you shut your pie hole and stop referencing it too skippy
 
SteelerFan448 said:
This is a good post, but I get the sense that this whole non-losing season thing has taken priority over winning in the playoffs. They play conservative on offense and win with defense because they can. It doesn't achieve anything more than a loss in the playoffs if they make it. I really think he's afraid to have a bad season even though that could result in a really good QB. If this is going to be the case, Khan will have to be aggressive to accumulate draft picks as ammo to move up to get a franchise QB again, because that's the only way we are going to see consistent real offensive football again. A QB who transcends a system and can create...yeah, I know that is going to be really hard to get.
Click to expand...
It will be even harder to develop a franchise QB to be that guy with the offense under Tomlins conservative thumb. That might be the biggest reason to get rid of Tomlin, it’s really hard to go deep in the postseason without a difference making young QB and I don’t think Tomlins philosophy will ever allow one to develop
 
SteelerInLebanon said:
You can kiss my ***.
Click to expand...
Classic snowflake Tomlin fanboy response. You have no facts so you resort to swearing and insulting.

Since we’re down on your level: why don’t you wipe Tomlins DNA off your chin, change into your depends and call it a night
 
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SteelerInLebanon said:
You can kiss my ***.
Click to expand...
public
 
SteelerInLebanon said:
thank you for being the perfect example of the kind of total the type total refuse that makes me embarrassed to be a Steelers fan somedays. You are one of about maybe 3 people that constantly act like immature ********. I can go through your profile and show you example after example after example of you attacking others then blaming them. So again you personally can kiss my ***.
Click to expand...
There you go snowflake let it all out...feel better??

It took you about a 90 minutes from starting a thread to try to justify your bs to raging in it because you couldn't talk anyone into playing your game of singing kumbaya and cheerfully discussing how to improve upon this once proud franchise ruined by Tomlin without getting rid of the root problem, who has rendered it irrelevant
 
Steelmann said:
Thanks for the chuckle of the day.
You are one of the people on here that during the game day thread,if the Steelers are winning start yapping about how quiet it will be because the Tomlin haters won’t have anything to say. Then you tell everyone how the Tomlin haters wish they would lose so they can keep on hating. You will do this during the game and then after the game. On several threads during the week. And if the Steelers are losing or have lost you will do the same thing to multiple threads. Telling the “haters how happy they must be. I once asked you a couple weeks ago how many times you use the word “hate or haters” a week. You’ve been doing this for years.

Now you come on…start this and tell people what they can or can’t say in your thread. Hypocrite is a word that comes to mind.
Look…I get that you are just as passionate as anyone on here about our beloved team. But when that manure that you love to spread gets a little too thick….its time to be called out.
Click to expand...
Why can’t we have a thread without the constant fire Tomlin BS? I give up. You win.
 
Avoid_Lloyd said:
Classic snowflake Tomlin fanboy response. You have no facts so you resort to swearing and insulting.

Since we’re down on your level: why don’t you wipe Tomlins DNA off your chin, change into your depends and call it a night
Click to expand...
Yes I like Tomlin and I am not going to ******* apologize for it. I also can criticize him for things as well. If you don’t like my liking him then just ignore me. I will do the same for you from here on out. You and others can just continue to constantly repeat the same mindless thing over and over again in every ******* thread.
 
Fiji Mariner said:
The change that needs to happen is likely have Rooney/Khan/Weidl get in a room and decide who the new expanded coaching staff will be and then hire said coaches sans any input from Mike. Spend
money on competent position coaches (QB, WR, OL, DBs etc) and coordinators and more staff in general.

The next change is the new hires do their assigned jobs without any micromanaging from Mike. Let the coaches coach and let the cheerleader/press conference man cheerlead and do pressers.

The Steelers hire a replay assistant and take the challenge responsibilities away from Mike.

The Steelers hire a clock management assistant for Mike.

The Steelers hire a new training staff.

Come draft weekemd the Steelers send Mike on a week long Ahayuasca retreat somewhere very remote.

New coordinators revamp/spruce up and update the playbooks and install an audible system.

Have a great draft and free agency

If these changes all happen I’m positive as positive can be that the franchise will show growth and an upward momentum we haven’t seen in over a decade.
Click to expand...
If you are going to take virtually ALL the responsibilities away from the Head Coach, why even keep him? Your suggestion does nothing about the real problem.

I once worked for a company that took this approach, it actually seemed to make the problems worse. The ownership of the company took virtually all the duties away from the President of operations, and installed 5 Departmental Managers directly below him. I was hired as the warehousing and shipping manager. What transpired was that the 5 Dept heads took it as a mandate from ownership that he had no power to interfere. This created 5 departments that answered to no one, and we lost almost 50% of employees (90% of the ones that were really needed) within the first 6-12 months. My department went unscathed, as they weren’t really part of the problem in the first place as well as really small (12 employees). It was a regular shitshow each and every day until the time things got so bad they sold the company after about 14 months. The company that bought them did so to eliminate competition and to acquire contracts that were held. The plant closed within a month from sale. We were the last employees to be let go, as we had 4ea 50,000 ft2 warehouses full of product that had to be shipped before closure.

The smartest move would have been to fire and hire a new President of operations in the first place and then let that person reconfigure how the company operated.
 
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Hypocycloids said:
It just hit me.
No need to be all upset.
I don’t think anyone is accusing anyone of hating Tomlin.

“Hater” is actually slang for “critic.”
To be a Tomlin hater means the same as being a Tomlin critic.
I know this because that would be of my mindset if I were to say “Tomlin hater” and I believe I have … I would mean “Tomlin critic.”

Now if “Tomlin critic” were to be repeated over and over it would soon become offensive as well.
You Tomlin critics!!!!
Click to expand...
So hater is synonymous with critic…
Just as nut hugger is synonymous with apologist

You Tomlin apologists
 
SteelerInLebanon said:
Did you read my thoughts in my original post? They mirror yours to a degree. I said He needs to get away from the reliance on splash. Lolley had the numbers on teams who made the playoffs with losing streaks like this. Most were almost entirely due to change in fortunes due to reliance on turnovers. We need to get back to winning the games on routine plays routinely. Not having to have the splash plays. I fully agree with that.
Click to expand...
I did read your thoughts and mostly disagree if you read mine

They are built with reliance on turnovers on D and splash plays on offense as every other part of both systems is basically bent or broken and turnovers on defense and splash plays on offense are two of the only remedies for overcoming the archaic predictable plan. Without the turnovers and splash plays no way they sniff another Tomlinship under the constraints of the conservative plans.

Without many turnovers and a few splash plays slightly above average is attainable though.
 
Aussie_Steeler said:
For me, if Tomlin's staying for the Steelers to win a Super Bowl he has to change his entire mindset and get away form the ultra conservative offense (and use the middle of the field) and bend but not break and hope for a turnover defence. I'd also say who cares about this never a losing season bullshit and treat 2025 as a rebuilding year as there are four big holes on the roster, as well as some smaller holes. At some point you have to stop patching and start renovating or rebuilding.

I would have a big coaching clearout - keep Arthur Smith (the offensive issues have been the same through multiple OC's which suggests the current problems are a HC philosophy problem rather than an OC play calling problem), Danny Smith and the linebackers coach. Definitely a New DC, OL coach, DL coach (there doesn't seem to have been much player development behind the long-term starters) and QB coach.

I use 2025 to set the roster up to go all out on a quarterback in 2026. If you look at franchise quarterbacks, the situation a quarterback is drafted into seems to be a better indicator of future success than drafting them high, so I want the rest of the offensive holes and coaching fixed before I worry about a quarterback.

The major gaps in the current roster (taking into account who is currently signed for 2025) as I see it are RB 1 and 2, WR 1, DL replacement for Heyward and QB 1 and 2. Sure there are other positions that could be upgraded (1 starting CB, Safety) but in a salary cap and draft environment you can't have elite players at every position:

Offence

QB 1 and 2 - I keep Fields on a three year contract as a bridge and let Wilson go. Either bring in a sub $10m free agent or late draft pick to be the backup;
RB 1 and 2 - Re-sign Warren as RB 2 and draft a RB 1;
WR 1 - At this point Pickens is performing at a number 2 level so I look to draft a WR 1. Austin and Roman Wilson should be 3 and 4. As Pickens is entering his contract year, sign him to a reasonable 3 year contract or trade him and use the pick received to draft a WR 2.
OL - in theory the OL should be set with Jones, Seumalo/Daniels, Frazier, McCormick and Fautanu.
TE is set.

If they can finish 2025 with a solid OLine, decent talent at WR and RB to go with Freiermuth and Washington at TE, and improved coaching they then have the pieces to help a quarterback drafted in 2026 succeed.

Defence

DL - need to draft a Heyward replacement;
CB - re-sign Donte Jackson, find a slot corner in free agency;
Linebacker - set as they run three deep at ILB and OLB;
Safety - starters are set.

Additional depth across the D can be obtained through free agency, UDFA's and late round draft pciks.

2026 - use 2026 and 2027 first round plus 2026 second and 2027 third to trade up for a quarterback if there's one Tomlin thinks is likely to be the quarterback of the future.
Click to expand...
I think the plan is pretty solid but falls off the rails with your QB “solution”.

Sure sign Fields as a bridge as he is young and could even become the answer before we draft that next franchise QB.

The plan 100% shouldn’t be wait till next year to grab a QB as there is no guarantee next years class is any better than this years. They should be throwing a mid and late pick at QB every year until the year they have 100% conviction in a guy and then make the move to go get him, whatever it takes. Maybe one of the buck shot picks along the way works out, if not at least you have cheap depth at an expensive position.

Simply saying delay til 26 and hypothetically spending multiple picks on a non target/guy they haven’t even identified yet is not an answer…that’s a hope something works out strategy. Who is this guy in 26 worth 2 1sts a 2nd and a 3rd? if no target is identified it’s just a dream.

It would also be poor strategy to spend that much draft capital on a QB for Mike to ruin/ not use properly.

They need to time the asset allocation on two things:
1) a guy they have identified and have 100% conviction in
2) having an X and O coach in the building to develop said asset (be it either a premier OC/ QB guru operating free from obstruction or a new offensive minded HC)

Spending mass assets on a QB to plug into this broken system will weaken the rest of the team which needs to be deep to keep stacking Tomlinships.

Everything outside of the QB strategy looks solid though!

Well we know GP ain’t sticking around for a “reasonable” contract too, they would likely have to pay the hometown mark up to keep that disgruntled man in town. He’s a whole other can of worms.
 
FB_IMG_1736423022849.jpg
 
Hypocycloids said:
I’m not accusing you of anything !
I used the incorrect contraction. “You’d” in the context that I was using it was meant as anyone in general! Not directly at you!
Click to expand...
Then why quote me? Just state your opinion without my post.
 
Hypocycloids said:
It just hit me.
No need to be all upset.
I don’t think anyone is accusing anyone of hating Tomlin.

“Hater” is actually slang for “critic.”
To be a Tomlin hater means the same as being a Tomlin critic.
I know this because that would be of my mindset if I were to say “Tomlin hater” and I believe I have … I would mean “Tomlin critic.”

Now if “Tomlin critic” were to be repeated over and over it would soon become offensive as well.
You Tomlin critics!!!!
Click to expand...
Didn't you state in post #37 that one would be niave to think that no one actually "hates" Tomlin?
 
A couple thoughts.

Does anyone think Coach Tomlin looks at his philosophy and says to himself, “This isn’t working.” Then, after that, thinks about ways to make substantive change?

Or, does he look at the fact that the Steelers were 10-3 at one point using said philosophy and think that the problem isn’t the scheme, rather it’s the execution of the scheme that loses four game in a row to end the season?

I can see an argument for why he believes in his philosophy. He had this team at 10-3. You can argue the level of competition, or whatever, but the fact remains. Why would he feel the need to have to change? His team was 10-3 with his offensive and defensive philosophies.

My issue with Mike Tomlin is that he is pretty good at getting to 10-3, so to speak, but has proven to be inconsistent in getting to 14-3, 13-4 with playoff wins. He is, for some reason, much better at getting to 10-7 or 11-6 with a first round playoff loss if the team even makes the playoffs.

I don’t need him to win a SB every year. But with such a consistency of winning seasons, it’s baffling that it hasn’t translated into any kind of winning in the postseason, save for four of his 18 years in Pittsburgh.

He is who he is, and he’s going to do what he does. Personally, I think he is looking at the 10-3 as justification for why he shouldn’t change, rather than the 0-4 to close the season for why he should. I think that’s why his team is locked in football purgatory.

I think the biggest change he could make is to get with the times. I know what has worked in the past, but it’s not working now and hasn’t worked in a while. The NFL has evolved from three yards and a cloud of dust. Mike would be wise to do the same, at least to some degree. Plenty of creative minds around football.
 
SteelerInLebanon said:
This isn’t a thread for bitching about hating Mike but honest discussion without hate. He isn’t leaving in all likelihood.

For Mike to get us where we want this team to go consistently he needs to change his formula. What he relies on right now absolutely can win a championship but it relies to heavily on things he can’t control and are subject to the whims of randomness. His reliance on splash plays and turnovers while effective when working isn’t reliable enough without a young hot QB to bail him out.

To make things less chaotic he needs to change his offensive attitude and learn to take what the other team is going surrender and make it work rather than trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole when you don’t have the talent needed to do so. He has to swallow his pride or stubbornness and do what KC is doing. Take what is there. It is what other teams are doing to beat us and unless we turn them over it is too unlikely we will get the needed splash plays currently.

WE have to learn to beat teams without relying on splash. That means we need less Pickens and more Hines Ward types.
Click to expand...
Similar to what Cowher had to do years ago. After a while people were saying he "couldn't win the big one", of course he won more playoff games than Shades in less years, but at least he recognized that he need to be less conservative and open up the offense so they hired Whiz, drafted Ben, and shazam won the SB the next year.
 
Sarge said:
A couple thoughts.

Does anyone think Coach Tomlin looks at his philosophy and says to himself, “This isn’t working.” Then, after that, thinks about ways to make substantive change?

Or, does he look at the fact that the Steelers were 10-3 at one point using said philosophy and think that the problem isn’t the scheme, rather it’s the execution of the scheme that loses four game in a row to end the season?

I can see an argument for why he believes in his philosophy. He had this team at 10-3. You can argue the level of competition, or whatever, but the fact remains. Why would he feel the need to have to change? His team was 10-3 with his offensive and defensive philosophies.

My issue with Mike Tomlin is that he is pretty good at getting to 10-3, so to speak, but has proven to be inconsistent in getting to 14-3, 13-4 with playoff wins. He is, for some reason, much better at getting to 10-7 or 11-6 with a first round playoff loss if the team even makes the playoffs.

I don’t need him to win a SB every year. But with such a consistency of winning seasons, it’s baffling that it hasn’t translated into any kind of winning in the postseason, save for four of his 18 years in Pittsburgh.

He is who he is, and he’s going to do what he does. Personally, I think he is looking at the 10-3 as justification for why he shouldn’t change, rather than the 0-4 to close the season for why he should. I think that’s why his team is locked in football purgatory.

I think the biggest change he could make is to get with the times. I know what has worked in the past, but it’s not working now and hasn’t worked in a while. The NFL has evolved from three yards and a cloud of dust. Mike would be wise to do the same, at least to some degree. Plenty of creative minds around football.
Click to expand...
You can see what Tomlin has been trying to do. He thinks you have to run the football, and I agree, because with the lack of tackling in training camps and practices, one would think that would be very effective especially late in the year. But then he gets Najee Harris instead of a guy more like Saquan Barkley.

He tries to settle down the chaos in the receiver room by offloading Antonio Brown, but then drafts guys like Diontae Johnson and George Pickens.

He wants RPOs and things like that in the offense, which is good, but he hires Matt Canada and drafts Kenny Pickett. It seems like he tries to take a step forward, but other decisions he makes cause two steps back. He seems like he can't get out of his own way at times.
 
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