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Trade Muth For a 3rd….?

Soooo... im not sure the perception on TEs isnt really broken on this site...

Im not opposed to trading Muth by any stretch of the imagination, but the dude is in his fifth season and is already in the top 130 all time in TE receptions
He is a really good pass-catching TE.

The ExSkins wanted him and a second for McLaurin, and since they valued Terry at a first plus to others, you figure Pat still has a low end second round value at least into this offseason...
 
Like we unfairly compare him to heath miller... Miller was a borderline HOF player... he is 12th in all time receptions for te's, 17th in yardage, 35th in td's and was one of tge best blockers among top 20 TEs... on most national TE ranking lists he is thought of in that 17-23 range of all time TEs...

Muth isnt an all around TE. He is a pure passcatcher, playing in an offense that hasnt been friendly to any passcatcher in recent years...
 
Drink IRON City said:
Friermuth may be retired by the time we get a new coach……….. just saying.

Odds are we have Tomlin finish out his current contract, then a two year deal/extension in last year.
Click to expand...
Tomlin is going to be coaching from the nursing home. Then after he has gone on to that great big coaching platform in the sky, his kid will be hired to take his place. ;)
 
Steelmann said:
Interesting. I get the feeling I am the only person that says no to this. Not for a 3rd. Have to sweeten the pot.
There have been many star pass catching TE’s in this league. Pat and Jonnu could easily be in that category.

We’ve been screaming for years to use the TE’s and middle more. And I’m not talking about the 2 yard passes.
I’ve heard for a couple years now how Arthur Smith loves to use the TE’s. I have yet to see it. We don’t even know who our QB will be next season (again). Experienced TE is a great option for a young QB. If they actually used these guys properly I think they would get the recognition.

We are 4 games in. It’s early. You’d have to think they will start to get more balls thrown their way.
Click to expand...

The problem is that the OL isn’t developing as hoped so they have to use Washington and an extra tackle as the two TEs, Pat and Jonnu wouldn’t have time to get open downfield.

This whole thing is being held together with twine and masking tape.
 
Drink IRON City said:
Friermuth may be retired by the time we get a new coach……….. just saying.

Odds are we have Tomlin finish out his current contract, then a two year deal/extension in last year.
Click to expand...

I think he’s got his eye on Noll’s career win number, by the time he hits that next year, TJ and Cam will be at the end and he’ll jump off the sinking ship and sail into the sunset as the winningest coach in Steeler history.

Rooney will rename the stadium after him and he’ll land a TV gig, I don’t think he has any interest in (or ability to) build up a struggling franchise.
 
Steelmann said:
Interesting. I get the feeling I am the only person that says no to this. Not for a 3rd. Have to sweeten the pot.
There have been many star pass catching TE’s in this league. Pat and Jonnu could easily be in that category.

We’ve been screaming for years to use the TE’s and middle more. And I’m not talking about the 2 yard passes.
I’ve heard for a couple years now how Arthur Smith loves to use the TE’s. I have yet to see it. We don’t even know who our QB will be next season (again). Experienced TE is a great option for a young QB. If they actually used these guys properly I think they would get the recognition.

We are 4 games in. It’s early. You’d have to think they will start to get more balls thrown their way.
Click to expand...

We don’t need Pat, and no way any team would sweeten the pot past a 3rd for a mid TE. I’d jump at a 3rd so fast it would make Pat’s head spin.

The team performs better with Washington on the field. He needs more snaps, should be TE1 in this system.

Pat and his *** blocking and mid receiving skills would be a better fit on a different team.
 
steelhurt said:
Yep, can’t stay out of the trainer’s room.
See, I just don’t think he’s all that as a pass rusher. Good at playing the run but just never impressed me as a pass rusher.
You simply cannot keep Herbig on the bench for this guy. Disappears in too many games where Herbig seems to always be causing havoc.
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If Herbig wasn’t so light in the pants vs the run he’d be an obvious upgrade. If he ever gets that ability to be more than a situational rusher he’s gonna cost way more than a team can pay a 3rd OLB. Somebody will have to go when it comes contract time.
 
madinsomniac said:
Soooo... im not sure the perception on TEs isnt really broken on this site...

Im not opposed to trading Muth by any stretch of the imagination, but the dude is in his fifth season and is already in the top 130 all time in TE receptions
He is a really good pass-catching TE.

The ExSkins wanted him and a second for McLaurin, and since they valued Terry at a first plus to others, you figure Pat still has a low end second round value at least into this offseason...
Click to expand...

Really good pass catcher may be a bit over stating it imo

Most average starting TEs get in that 60/600/3-5TDs range…he’s slightly above that

I’d call him slightly above average as a pass catcher, maybe a C+/B- grade…a B if he has a QB making him look good or when he was a top option in the offense in targets.
He’s also a D grade blocker

Heck the hapless Bungles have two TEs in Geisecki and Fant that Muth is ever so slightly better than. I wouldn’t want either of those guys either. Mid TEs are scattered all over the league and Pat is just a slight upgrade from the dozens of mid TEs scattered about the league (unless you factor in blocking; then he is a bottom feeder).

The team simply performs better when Washington gets more snaps and he’s not even really targeted, but he helps make the offense go. Kinda suggests either Pat is super mid or just another square peg.
 
Fiji Mariner said:
Really good pass catcher may be a bit over stating it imo

Most average starting TEs get in that 60/600/3-5TDs range…he’s slightly above that

I’d call him slightly above average as a pass catcher, maybe a C+/B- grade…a B if he has a QB making him look good or when he was a top option in the offense in targets.
He’s also a D grade blocker

Heck the hapless Bungles have two TEs in Geisecki and Fant that Muth is ever so slightly better than. I wouldn’t want either of those guys either. Mid TEs are scattered all over the league and Pat is just a slight upgrade from the dozens of mid TEs scattered about the league (unless you factor in blocking; then he is a bottom feeder).

The team simply performs better when Washington gets more snaps and he’s not even really targeted, but he helps make the offense go. Kinda suggests either Pat is super mid or just another square peg.
Click to expand...


Well said and that’s about how I see it as well. Why keep two pass catching TEs (Juno & Pat), when you have a pretty good 3rd te in Washington.

Even with the OL improving, the odds of relying on both Juno & Pat simultaneous is slim and Washington would well more than take the Pat place.

I suggested a 3rd and would take that in a heartbeat today.




Salute the nation
 
Drink IRON City said:
Well said and that’s about how I see it as well. Why keep two pass catching TEs (Juno & Pat), when you have a pretty good 3rd te in Washington.

Even with the OL improving, the odds of relying on both Juno & Pat simultaneous is slim and Washington would well more than take the Pat place.

I suggested a 3rd and would take that in a heartbeat today.




Salute the nation
Click to expand...

The team simply doesn’t lose when Washington gets his snaps…think the stat was 7-0 when he gets at least 40.

Can’t say that for Muth
 
Steelmann said:
Interesting. I get the feeling I am the only person that says no to this. Not for a 3rd. Have to sweeten the pot.
There have been many star pass catching TE’s in this league. Pat and Jonnu could easily be in that category.

We’ve been screaming for years to use the TE’s and middle more. And I’m not talking about the 2 yard passes.
I’ve heard for a couple years now how Arthur Smith loves to use the TE’s. I have yet to see it. We don’t even know who our QB will be next season (again). Experienced TE is a great option for a young QB. If they actually used these guys properly I think they would get the recognition.

We are 4 games in. It’s early. You’d have to think they will start to get more balls thrown their way.
Click to expand...
Arthur Smith was trash in Atlanta and he's been trash here. Running and Passing, offense as a whole.
I don't blame Pat 100%, Arthur is part of the problem but Pat is not the solution.
68 games into an NFL career, the light isn't gonna suddenly come on for Pat. Not in Pittsburgh anyway.
Experience is overrated, The best TE in the league are all young guys. Bowers, Warren, Mcbride.
What exactly does Pat bring to the table outside a great college career?
Not Big
Not fast
Can't Block
Can't catch in the biggest moments.

Won't be hard to replace. For much Less $$
 
I'd keep Pat just because his name is fun to say when he does catch a pass. Muuuuuuuth. we haven't had that since Heeeeaaaath. no one else on the team sounds that cool....just sayin. LOL
 
WindyCitySteel said:
The problem is that the OL isn’t developing as hoped so they have to use Washington and an extra tackle as the two TEs, Pat and Jonnu wouldn’t have time to get open downfield.

This whole thing is being held together with twine and masking tape.
Click to expand...
And a 42 year old QB!
 
warriors42 said:
I'd keep Pat just because his name is fun to say when he does catch a pass. Muuuuuuuth. we haven't had that since Heeeeaaaath. no one else on the team sounds that cool....just sayin. LOL
Click to expand...
What ?

You have Washhhhh

Jewwwwwwww


….

Ok maybe better stick with Muth.

Whewww
 
madinsomniac said:
Soooo... im not sure the perception on TEs isnt really broken on this site...

Im not opposed to trading Muth by any stretch of the imagination, but the dude is in his fifth season and is already in the top 130 all time in TE receptions
He is a really good pass-catching TE.

The ExSkins wanted him and a second for McLaurin, and since they valued Terry at a first plus to others, you figure Pat still has a low end second round value at least into this offseason...
Click to expand...
I don't think the perception is broken. Freiermuth is a solid player. It's moreso that the Steelers aren't using the TEs and at this point Smith and Freiermuth are redundant, with Smith being the favorite between the two. It's about getting an asset for a player who isn't going to get much attention in the passing game.
 
SteelerFan448 said:
I don't think the perception is broken. Freiermuth is a solid player. It's moreso that the Steelers aren't using the TEs and at this point Smith and Freiermuth are redundant, with Smith being the favorite between the two. It's about getting an asset for a player who isn't going to get much attention in the passing game.
Click to expand...


EXACTLY !!!!!

Get something while you can. A 3rd preferable, but a 4th would be acceptable.




Salute the nation
 
OH, many say the OL will get better………. To a degree yes, but also realize they have struggled with the OL from a long long time. You can argue the draft investment but you can also counter with the extremely low end OL coaching.

Nothing will get much better or change very much until way better sub-coaching and HC are brought in.

Muth isn’t the core problem, but is a casualty of it.



Salute the nation
 
madinsomniac said:
Like we unfairly compare him to heath miller... Miller was a borderline HOF player... he is 12th in all time receptions for te's, 17th in yardage, 35th in td's and was one of tge best blockers among top 20 TEs... on most national TE ranking lists he is thought of in that 17-23 range of all time TEs...

Muth isnt an all around TE. He is a pure passcatcher, playing in an offense that hasnt been friendly to any passcatcher in recent years...
Click to expand...
Pure passcatcher would imply he has great hands. He doesn't
He's dropped the biggest passes in some of the most critical moments multiple times over the last few years.
 
Muth was a luxury pick and has lost his place here currently.

With Washington being developed for his true role, add in Juno Smith, and you have a non-used Friermuth sitting on the bench gaining rust.

Get what you can (3rd or a 4th,…. Possibly player package) and move on.

We aren’t going any further with him, and we are not going to fail without him.



Salute the nation
 
It's always amusing to see the heavy price folks think we can get, for players we don't even use ourselves. If they can get a WR that's start worthy, of a 4 for him, take it. I'm not even sure they would get that. Him not getting any looks is killing any market he may have even had.
 
FAB802 said:
It's always amusing to see the heavy price folks think we can get, for players we don't even use ourselves. If they can get a WR that's start worthy, of a 4 for him, take it. I'm not even sure they would get that. Him not getting any looks is killing any market he may have even had.
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I think the trade value came from the unnamed GM that was mentioned on The Fan. SN had an article about it.
 
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