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Trumps Tax bill looks like it will happen

Letting people keep their own money does not add to the debt.

It does if you believe that money belongs to the government to begin with. In order to think that letting people keep their own money adds to the debt, you also have to believe that by cutting taxes, Trump basically took money from the government and gave it to the people. The government exists because people pay taxes and fund it. Period.

As has been repeated here ad nauseam, spending is the problem and the only reason we are in debt and our debt grows. Our government needs to get out of the business of trying to be all things to everyone. If you want to be mad at Trump, be mad the he signed that abomination of a budget not so long ago. That is a good reason to be pissed. More stupid, bloated spending bills. That is a problem in need of correcting.
 
did you bother reading this at all?
Keep going Supe, don't give up buddy, read further, you can do this!

The Mueller investigation has clearly produced public records that confirm pieces of the dossier. And even where the details are not exact, the general thrust of Steele’s reporting seems credible in light of what we now know about extensive contacts between numerous individuals associated with the Trump campaign and Russian government officials. However, there is also a good deal in the dossier that has not been corroborated in the official record and perhaps never will be—whether because it’s untrue, unimportant or too sensitive. As a raw intelligence document, the Steele dossier, we believe, holds up well so far. But surely there is more to come from Mueller’s team. We will return to it as the public record develops.


'Not corroborated' and 'proven false' as Timmy suggests, are two entirely different things.

Is this your proof? Proof of what?
Proof that the typically lazy, half-assed assessement by Tim and others - that the Dossier is fake, or that any part of it has been proven false - is simply a blatant lie and right-wing propaganda espoused by Trump and his flock.

Does Mueller know about this, or just you?
Cute. What do you think?

Now that this is settled, feel free to return to your regular programming of fear-mongering, white rage, fox/breitbart propaganda, Trump adulation and - best of all - bashing liberals for their ethnicity. Happy holidays!
 
'Not corroborated' and 'proven false' as Timmy suggests, are two entirely different things.

Proof that the typically lazy, half-assed assessement by Tim and others - that the Dossier is fake, or that any part of it has been proven false - is simply a blatant lie and right-wing propaganda espoused by Trump and his flock.

Cute. What do you think?

Now that this is settled, feel free to return to your regular programming of fear-mongering, white rage, fox/breitbart propaganda, Trump adulation and - best of all - bashing liberals for their ethnicity. Happy holidays!

You get more ridiculous by the day. Now you are a victim, because someone points out your Hungarian heritage. The laughs just keep coming.

The Steele dossier is unproven opposition research, paid for by the Hillary campaign. The fact that it was used to get a FISA warrant, to spy on her political opponent, should scare the living **** out of you. If it doesn't, God help us.

**** Mueller. He has an expiration date, and it can't come too soon. The national disgrace will soon end.
 
No, you just call me out for no reason, completely unprovoked, for the sole reason to deride and to mock me

Oh no, believe me, it is absolutely for reason. It is utterly provoked (who called who a wet vagina?). You crack me up with your hypocrisy.

You deserve every beat down (and they are daily) you take on this site. You beg for it.
 
You really oughta take the time to carefully read this, line by line. If you do, you wouldn't type out such utter nonsense as 'people provide proof, for instance, of the falsehoods throughout the Steele Dossier' as no such proof has been provided by anybody.

The Steele Dossier: A Retrospective
https://www.lawfareblog.com/steele-dossier-retrospective

In summary:

Nah, why bother? When have facts and the truth ever been of interest to you? It's your - and Trump's - way or the highway.

A wise man said previously on this page: "Despite thousands of arguments being made by many here in your direction, you refuse to budge. Trump is evil to you. The good the man has done for this country you refuse to acknowledge. You believe literally any and every fake or real story that comes forward that tarnishes your President. You believe Steel, Avenatti, Stormy Daniels. That says more than enough right there. "

And predictably on the same damned page you do exactly what I tell you do. You have been presented the following information before. You didn't read it. You turned a blind eye to it. You didn't even comment on it. Because your mind was already made up. Anything presented to you that would challenge a pre-established notion you dismiss. Don't even consider it.

On April 18 you asked point blank "When was it proven the dossier was fake and by whom?" I presented the following. CRICKETS from you.

I now trump your LAWFAREBLOG (wtf???) with Forbes....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulro...an-deal-from-the-steele-dossier/#549f2b561930

What we did not know on election day was that
- the Christopher Steele dossier was bought and paid for by the Clinton Campaign and the DNC, that
- the dossier itself may have been part and parcel of a Kremlin disinformation campaign, and
- that a FISA (Federal Intelligence Surveillance) court apparently used one of its most bizarre claims to approve the surveillance of a Trump campaign advisor.
- We also have learned that the Steele dossier was commissioned by an opposition-research firm—Fusion GPS—that had Russia among its main clients.

In light of these disclosures, investigators must now determine if the leaders of the Democratic Party, not Trump, colluded with the Kremlin to produce what the Russians call “black PR” against Trump.

We can understand if many Trump-haters [aka Tiberius] swallowed the dossier’s tales of improbable business deals and fictitious meetings as related by anonymous informants, but it now appears that the FBI used the dossier to obtain a warrant to surveil a member of Trump’s campaign team from a FISA court judge. Federal courts should be subject to rules of evidence on hearsay, identification, and authentication, which would seem to nullify the dossier as credible evidence. Federal courts, like FISA, are also not supposed to be swayed by politics and should have the commonsense to recognize nonsense when they see it.

I concluded immediately after the Steele dossier’s publication by BuzzFeed in January of 2017 that it was a fake. No source cited in the dossier had been willing to come forward; most of the information is hearsay or even hearsay of hearsay. There is no way that Steele’s alleged top-level Kremlin informants would spill the Kremlin’s deepest secrets to lowly Steele hirelings. Steele’s informants were therefore either fictitious, or low-level poseurs passing on gossip, OR they were doing the bidding of the Kremlin as part of a classic Russian disinformation campaign.

Persistent media efforts to validate the Steele dossier have failed. After an extensive investigation, the Washington Post disguised its disappointment with verbal gymnastics: “Although it’s impossible to say that the dossier is entirely inaccurate (there are some glimmers of accurate predictions), it is also impossible to say that it has been broadly validated.”

As a matter of fact, the dossier is unverifiable, given the anonymous sources and whether the informants are real people or fabrications. The Steele dossier could not stand up to the most liberal interpretation of rules of evidence. Even more damaging: one of the key verifiable claims of the dossier (that Trump’s personal lawyer orchestrated payoffs from Prague on specific dates) has been shown to be false. When virtually everything else is not verifiable or simply made up, the failure of the one claim that can be validated should call into question the entire dossier.

As a last reed of hope, “dossier Believers” argue that the dossier was after all prepared by a master spy—a former MI6 bigwig—whose “trusted compatriots” gathered intelligence from the innermost sanctums of the Kremlin. They do not note that Steele’s last tour of duty in Russia was a quarter century earlier. The Christopher Steele of dossier fame was long past his sleuthing days, but was instead a consultant hustling to give his clients the dirt they wanted.

I now raise your LAWFAREBLOG with USAToday:

Reporter who broke Steele dossier story says ex-British agent's claims 'likely false

Published 2:43 p.m. ET Dec. 18, 2018

A reporter [Michael Isikoff, the chief investigative correspondent for Yahoo News], who was among the first to report on former British intelligence agent Michael Steele’s dossier alleging ties between the Trump campaign and Russian officials, said in an interview some of the dossier’s “more sensational allegations” are “likely false.” ...when "you actually get into the details of the Steele dossier, the specific allegations, we have not seen the evidence to support them, and, in fact, there's good grounds to think that some of the more sensational allegations will never be proven and are likely false."

I expect the same this time around:

tenor.gif
 
...there's good grounds to think that some of the more sensational allegations will never be proven and are likely false."

I see. So Trump may very well have colluded and conspired with the Russian government to subvert the US presidential election (read, committed treason), BUT none of that matters since the salacious allegations that he hired hookers to pee all over him and themselves in the executive suite the Obamas stayed at may 'never be proven and is likely false.' So yeah, that makes it perfectly clear the entire Steele dossier is false and should be dismissed out of hand.

tenor.gif
 
I see. So Trump may very well have colluded and conspired with the Russian government to subvert the US presidential election (read, committed treason), BUT none of that matters since the salacious allegations that he hired hookers to pee all over him and themselves in the executive suite the Obamas stayed at may 'never be proven and is likely false.' So yeah, that makes it perfectly clear the entire Steele dossier is false and should be dismissed out of hand.

tenor.gif

wait. hold up just a second, Tibs.

1. the Steele dossier has not been proven nor disproven. Yet to you, every syllable is 100% truth.

2. let me ask you this, but let me point out some facts, first. Trump eats his steak well done. almost charred, even. the left (and some on the right and middle) went ballistic, that this is not how someone eats steak. That it ruins the steak. You, being in the restaurant industry likely agree that this is not how one eats steak. Hell, I don't even eat steak like that. Yet the left went on - suggesting that Trump has a phobia of germs and trust issues. That by eating his steaks fully charred, or well done, shows that he's a germophobe. You've seen people like this, we all have. Those people who carry around a bottle of hand sanitizer and use it every time they touch a door knob, or use a pen that doesnt belong to them. So if all that is true - and I'm not saying it isn't - then please, for the love of god, tell us why a germophobe would want hookers to piss on him. doesn't that just sound ludicrous and unbelievable - that a proven germophobe would want hookers to piss on him ... and he'd pay them to do it? There are certainly people out there who like watersports, but it's extremely unlikely that those people are germophobes with trust issues.
 
So Trump may very well have colluded and conspired with the Russian government to subvert the US presidential election

Evidence of this? We keep asking. so far you haven't produced it. All these indictments and guilty pleas, lots of people talking to Russians or Ukrainians about this or that and lots of completely unrelated criminal activity but still not one of those has mentioned a word about Trump conspiring with Russia to influence the election. Not a peep about that from any of them about that. Does that seem odd to you? Cohen still vehemently denying he ever went to Prague. Why? Wouldn't that be a nice fat fish to serve up to Mueller in exchange for leniency? Yet all he's given him on Trump is Stormy Daniels.

Why are they all protecting Trump if he is actually the mastermind of this great election conspiracy? Why haven't they thrown him under the bus to save themselves? Have you ever asked yourself why that is?

Anyway this will go round and round until the investigation is finished. It's a waste of time debating it.
 
Evidence of this? We keep asking. so far you haven't produced it.
If there was evidence of this, Trump would be indicted, impeached and in jail already. That's what the Mueller investigation is tasked with, to provide the evidence to prove - or disprove - if Trump and his associates committed collusion and conspiracy (read: treason). As you know, the Special Counsel investigation continues its work unabated, and will present their conclusions when they have their ducks lined up, their t's crossed and i's dotted. This is a historic case of great significance, concerning the President of the United States and the integrity and fairness of our elections. They have to get it right. It has to be fair, impartial and based on facts and evidence. If for no other reason than to protect national security, Mueller must submit a report proving an iron-clad case, one way or another.

Anyway this will go round and round until the investigation is finished.
Exactly. My point was that nothing in the dossier has been proven to be untrue, as some here have suggested.

It's a waste of time debating it.
I dunno, is it? What purpose would a messageboard like this serve, if there's no use in debating these issues?
 
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If there was evidence of this, Trump would be indicted, impeached and in jail already. That's what the Mueller investigation is tasked with, to provide the evidence to prove - or disprove - if Trump and his associates committed collusion and conspiracy (read: treason). As you know, the Special Counsel investigation continues its work unabated, and will present their conclusion when they have their ducks lined up, their t's crossed and i's dotted. This is a historic case of great significance, concerning the President of the United States. They have to get it right. It has to be fair, impartial and based on facts and evidence. If for no other reason than to protect our most basic national security, Mueller must submit a report proving an iron-clad case, one way or another.

Exactly. My point was that nothing in the dossier has been proven to be untrue, as some here have suggested.

I dunno, is it? What purpose would a messageboard like this serve, if there's no use in debating these issues?

Yeah, that's not how criminal investigations work. They aren't set up to take unverified accusations and "prove they're untrue". They look for evidence of crimes. The fact that something "hasn't been proven untrue" is evidence of exactly nothing.

A post ago you said "Trump may very well have colluded and conspired"....and now you admit there's been no evidence of this produced whatsoever. Dontcha think if it "may very well" have happened we might have seen a whiff of something before now?

It's a waste of time debating with people who don't debate facts. Let us know when you have some actual evidence that Trump conspired to influence the election. Let us know when you are ready to answer some of the logical questions posed to you with something other than your hopes and dreams about what is going to happen. Otherwise the conversation is a total bore and waste of time.
 
A post ago you said "Trump may very well have colluded and conspired"....and now you admit there's been no evidence of this produced whatsoever.
No, I never said that or admitted to that. I posted an article which substantiated a pretty large chunk of the raw intelligence found in the dossier, specifically regarding Manafort's and Cohen's multiple contacts with Russian operatives. Many other questions remain unanswered. None of the allegations have been proven false or can be dismissed in any way.

For further reading and inquiry, I reccomend this article which sheds light on which parts of Steele's dossier seem to be supported by these first few rounds of Mueller's indictments. And the one thing to always keep in mind....why in the world have Manafort and Cohen been constantly lying to investigators regarding their contacts with Russians? As have Trump and his whole family? Why?

The utterly lawless ‘Individual-1’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.344835c54ec3

Then again, you seem to have a primordial need for black and white answers. In a fluid, ongoing investigation, I'm sorry to break the news you won't find them, at least not yet. It may be best for your psyche if you simply stop following this case until Mueller submits his report. Only then will you have the assurances you seek, by whatever firm conclusions reached by the report.


<iframe scrolling="no" src="https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/c/embed/52782b5c-f47e-46a4-97fe-f8410f7d4dc5" webkitallowfullscreen="" mozallowfullscreen="" allowfullscreen="" width="480" height="290" frameborder="0"></iframe>
 
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It is utterly provoked (who called who a wet vagina?). You crack me up with your hypocrisy.

Says the king of hypocrisy. This was your unprovoked insult a few posts earlier, which came out of the blue.

This is obviously a crawl under your Hungarian bed and hide for 3 months moment if there ever was one.

So when you take ill-advised pot shots at others, don't be shocked when you're called out for being a sopping wet vagina.
 
No, I never said that or admitted to that. I posted an article which substantiated a pretty large chunk of the raw intelligence found in the dossier, specifically regarding Manafort's and Cohen's multiple contacts with Russian operatives. Many other questions remain unanswered. None of the allegations have been proven false or can be dismissed in any way.

For further reading and inquiry, I reccomend this article which sheds light on which parts of Steele's dossier seem to be supported by these first few rounds of Mueller's indictments. And the one thing to always keep in mind....why in the world have Manafort and Cohen been constantly lying to investigators regarding their contacts with Russians? As have Trump and his whole family? Why?

The utterly lawless ‘Individual-1’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.344835c54ec3

Then again, you seem to have a primordial need for black and white answers. In a fluid, ongoing investigation, I'm sorry to break the news you won't find them, at least not yet. It may be best for your psyche if you simply stop following this case until Mueller submits his report. Only then will you have the assurances you seek, by whatever firm conclusions reached by the report.


<iframe scrolling="no" src="https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/c/embed/52782b5c-f47e-46a4-97fe-f8410f7d4dc5" webkitallowfullscreen="" mozallowfullscreen="" allowfullscreen="" width="480" height="290" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Ha ha ha. My psyche is just fine. And as I have said many times before, if Trump is impeached I will welcome President Pence for a variety of reasons. Unlike you I simply like to look at things in a balanced and logical fashion and not search and hunt endlessly for any shred of confirmation bias that I can find. The Millbank piece being a perfect example...long on insinuations and short on any sort of evidence. At worst right now he MAY be guilty of a campaign finance violation and even that is far from certain. The fact that he suggested courses of action and was advised that they were illegal is irrelevant, unless he then went through with them anyway. I highly doubt he's the first president who has to be advised on the legality of things. I don't disagree he's flawed in numerous ways. I don't have to like everything about him to want to wait for facts and evidence before deciding he's guilty of a crime. It's called critical thinking skills.

You're so obsessed with any hint, shred, inference of wrongdoing...you're so blinded by your hate for all things Trump you're unable to look at things impartially at all. It's boring.

The best thing for my "psyche" is to avoid getting into any more pointless discussions with people like you who have no interest in hearing or considering anything that might refute their pre-drawn conclusions.

In fact I think that's going to be my New Year's Resolution. Thank you.
 
Says the king of hypocrisy. This was your unprovoked insult a few posts earlier, which came out of the blue.

So when you take ill-advised pot shots at others, don't be shocked when you're called out for being a sopping wet vagina.

I think I'd rather be called a timid Hungarian than a sopping wet vagina. That was below-the-belt.:yo:
 
The best thing for my "psyche" is to avoid getting into any more pointless discussions with people like you
Excellent choice! Will spare the both of us from walking around in circles, talking over each other and avoiding the elephant in the room. The criminality of a sitting US President.
 
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Excellent choice! Will spare the both of us from walking around in circles, talking over each other and avoiding the elephant in the room. The criminality of a sitting US President.

Thanks for so aptly demonstrating everything I just said about you.
 
Excellent choice! Will spare the both of us from walking around in circles, talking over each other and avoiding the elephant in the room. The criminality of a sitting US President.

That's the crazy part, that he's not in jail. He's got dementia and he might even be psychotic but he's pretty damn brilliant to have gotten past that one for almost 2 years now. Wild stuff.
 
None of the allegations have been proven false or can be dismissed in any way.

Yes, they can be dismissed.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulro...ier-is-false-news-and-heres-why/#4c5095568674

The Trump Dossier Is Fake -- And Here Are The Reasons Why


Feel free to read and open your closed mind.

Just one excerpt:

The PDF file of the 30-page typewritten report alleges that high Kremlin officials colluded with Trump, offered him multi-billion dollar bribes, and accumulated compromising evidence of Trump’s sexual escapades in Russia. That the dossier comes from former British intelligence officers appears, at first glance, to give it weight especially with Orbis’ claim of a “global network.” The U.S. intelligence community purportedly has examined the allegations but have not confirmed any of them. We can wait till hell freezes over. The material is not verifiable.

Therefore, it can be dismissed.

The article's chock full of reasons why the dossier is fake. It was a paid for hit piece funded by your party after illegal FISA warrants used to spy on a political opponent.

THAT is the crime. But no one will address it as such.

Can you imagine if Trump got illegal FISA warrants now, the RNC paid for a hit piece on Hillary, and he used it in the upcoming election?

You'd go ballistic.
 
I think I'd rather be called a timid Hungarian than a sopping wet vagina. That was below-the-belt.:yo:
Tim has logged a lot of hours, worked extra hard, has gone above and beyond the call of duty to earn such a moniker. He's chased me around this board for years now, nipping at my ankles, yapping away like a little, constipated poodle. He prides himself on being singularly focused on and mesmerized by my political views and opinions. He sets his clock to my every post.

Perhaps only Confluence has proven to be his equal with his unbridled man-love and cringy, boy-band-level drooling adulation, following me around every bend and corner.

Dipshits like Indy & Stewey prove their ignorance day in and day out with their sullen, tiresome white rage. Nonetheless, they're still a notch below Tim & Confluence as far as sheer perseverance in perverse stalking techniques.

hamster, oftb, davenport, supe and many others keep it mostly above the board, though have deeply flawed political views. ;)

Quite a collection of right-wing asshats here at SN. Perhaps there should be a MAGA Hall of Fame some day.

As far as cheap entertainment and barrels of laughs, nothing beats the SN political board. Love you guys (and gals) :yo:
 
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Quite a collection of right-wing asshats here at SN. Perhaps there should be a MAGA Hall of Fame some day.
As far as sheer entertainment and barrels of laughs, nothing beats the SN political board. Love you guys (and gals) :yo:

Don't give Spike any ideas.
 
That's the crazy part, that he's not in jail. He's got dementia and he might even be psychotic but he's pretty damn brilliant to have gotten past that one for almost 2 years now. Wild stuff.
....and he takes 2 scoops of ice cream. Indict!!!!!!!!!

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