Universal Basic Income

[Superman]

Burgundy slinged crank?

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

The problem is that conservatives see taxes as the amount of money you need to collect to run the government, the smallest, most efficient government possible. Liberals see taxes as more than that. They see it as a penalty to be collected from rich people who could have only gotten rich by stealing it from others.

They think that only the smart people (IE Them) can be trusted to spend money in the proper way, So even the poor people should not have THAT much money. Taxes are to be collected to keep people in line.

If everyone agreed that all we needed to do was collect X amount each year to fund government, it would be pretty damn easy to do it.

 

[ark steel]

In my utopia, drugs are legal. Solves that issue real quick.
.

Well, if Jethro can sell meth for $10/rock (or whatever they are) and has to pay $1 income tax or he can sell it for 9.50 off the books, he sells it off the books with a flat income tax. With a sales tax (I refuse to call it VALUE added tax), he sells it for $10, obvously not collecting sales tax because it is off the books. but when he buys something with that $10, he pays the tax.

 

[MT~Forged]

That's basically why I'm no longer in business for myself. Too many people working under-the-table for a lot less because they weren't paying taxes and insurance and too many consumers who didn't care and couldn't or wouldn't pay what I had to charge. Just my taxes and insurance cost $7000 a month and you have to charge accordingly.

I meant it as a consumption tax. Don’t want to pay a shitload of taxes, don’t buy a bunch of **** you don’t really need. Buy a 20k car instead of a 45k one. Drive your car a couple more years, put off the tax payment.

Little Johnny can sell all the lemonade he wants and not have to pay taxes on his sales if he doesn’t spend it. If he buys a new bike, fork it over. Of course ESSENTIALS would be tax free, otherwise lower income people pay more of a percentage. If you are low income and don’t buy a bunch of non-essentials, you would pay almost zero taxes. If you buy beer, cigarettes, preprocessed foods, Mickey D’s, you can pay like the rest of us.

 

[fedderone]

If everyone agreed that all we needed to do was collect X amount each year to fund government, it would be pretty damn easy to do it.

I think it would also force the elected crooks to do something they've NEVER done before in their lives.......work within a budget.
You would see a LOT of waste and unnecessary programs go away REAL quick.

 

[fedderone]

Well, if Jethro can sell meth for $10/rock (or whatever they are) and has to pay $1 income tax or he can sell it for 9.50 off the books, he sells it off the books with a flat income tax. With a sales tax (I refuse to call it VALUE added tax), he sells it for $10, obvously not collecting sales tax because it is off the books. but when he buys something with that $10, he pays the tax.

Yeah, in any scenario you can make an exception or create an outlier.
No system is perfect. Our Republic and our Courts are probably the best on the planet.......but they both have many warts and problems.

Right now, if someone has an unreported income and/or does not file taxes, what happens to them?
Same thing would happen to Jethro the Meth dealer now.
He's avoiding paying taxes, because he's not reporting his income, legal or otherwise.
Flat tax doesn't change that.

 

[ark steel]

Yeah, in any scenario you can make an exception or create an outlier.
No system is perfect. Our Republic and our Courts are probably the best on the planet.......but they both have many warts and problems.

Right now, if someone has an unreported income and/or does not file taxes, what happens to them?
Same thing would happen to Jethro the Meth dealer now.
He's avoiding paying taxes, because he's not reporting his income, legal or otherwise.
Flat tax doesn't change that.

Flat tax has no effect, correct.

However, the "Fair tax) does. He still violates the law by not charging sales tax, but, when he spends the $10, he pays the sales tax (unless it is off the record purchase, too).

 

[Confluence]

Flat tax has no effect, correct.

However, the "Fair tax) does. He still violates the law by not charging sales tax, but, when he spends the $10, he pays the sales tax (unless it is off the record purchase, too).

It is important to always keep in mind that fair and flat are 4 letter F words.

That is what my accountant tells me.


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[ark steel]

It is important to always keep in mind that fair and flat are 4 letter F words.

That is what my accountant tells me.


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app

Thats because both put him out of business. Me, too!

 

[fedderone]

Flat tax has no effect, correct.

However, the "Fair tax) does. He still violates the law by not charging sales tax, but, when he spends the $10, he pays the sales tax (unless it is off the record purchase, too).

So in your scenario, all Craigslist sales, garage sales, yard sales, rummage sales, online sales ( depending on state ), flea markets, etc. get to circumvent this tax system.
Easier to get creative in your buying practices than it is to circumvent working off the books.

Also, all those Americans that retired from working, and no longer have an income, unfairly would be paying taxes AGAIN.....without the benefit of keeping 100% of their income to speak of. Just their savings......that were already taxed.

Would you sales tax EVERYTHING? Food, water, utilities, clothing, housing, etc.?
Or just "luxury items" like iphones, cars, boats, jet-skies, planes, etc?
Now we start doing "exceptions" and caveats and lobbying for getting my product deemed exempt.
We're back where we started.

I understand your theory, and it's probably better than the current system ( our federal tax code is an absolute joke - see annual Forbes tax filing scenario for a good laugh ), but think there's better alternatives, namely the flat tax. It's non-discriminatory.