What I have learned from the Left

[Troglodyte]

The left also is sooooo thrilled that the United States is on pace to having whites as a minority by 2045, per census projections.

That is so awesome. Finally, whites put in their place and America can become great ... following the models of these great non-white nations:

• Mexico
• Nicaragua
• Venezuela
• Zimbabwe
• South Africa
• Kenya
• Nigeria
• Rwanda
• Sudan
• Ethiopa
• Yemen

Compare that to the loooooser nations that are majority white:

• Canada
• UK
• Argentina
• Italy
• Germany
• United States

Good God, man, those white nations reek of failure, and cannot even feed themselves. They constantly suffer civil war, drought, famine, corruption, mass starvation, and rely on the non-white nations to feed them.

Nope. No White Nationalists here.

 

[Tibs]

you have supported Confederate statues and Confederate flags being torn down and removed. This flies in the face of you saying "America is what it is." Would appreciate either a retraction or an explanation

Yeah, things aren't always black and white (figuratively speaking). You won't get a retraction from me on this, nor will you likely accept my explanation either, as you never do.

The fact is the Confederate States were roundly defeated along with their racist, slave owning ways. The confederate flag should be very simply a plain, white flag, representing surrender. You can have a statue or two to remember the losers of this war, and it should definitely be part of school curriculum, museums, etc. It is a part of the nation's history, the dark days of slavery, and the discriminatory policies that were in place all the way up until the civil rights movement.

Having said that, I don't agree with having a bunch of Confederate statues all over the southern states. The losers of wars don't get to erect unlimited statues to honor their heroes. It shouldn't work that way. I totally understand the sentiment those statues are hurtful to a lot of Americans, an almost gloating reminder that the south was once ruled and governed by racist, slave-owning *********. I say there should be several areas preserved at major historic sites where they can concentrate the remaining Confederate statues and museums. Above and beyond that, I see no reason to keep the rest. Same in Germany, you don't see Nazi statues all around, nor do you see the Soviet statues that were torn down all over central Europe after the fall of the Berlin wall.

 

[Steelworth]

Damn, you guys are a strange bunch. Gives me the creeps.

I see you couldn't/wouldn't answer my question from one post above Tim's. That's mainly what I was referring to, Lib.

 

[Steelworth]

And before you give me a lecture on an actual Independent and their ideology;

An independent voter, often also called an unaffiliated voter in the United States, is a voter who does not align themselves with a political party. An independent is variously defined as a voter who votes for candidates on issues rather than on the basis of a political ideology or partisanship; a voter who does not have long-standing loyalty to, or identification with, a political party; a voter who does not usually vote for the same political party from election to election; or a voter who self-describes as an independent.

You're not even close to being an Independent.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

The only things I've learned from the left are along the lines of how stupid, gullible, and hypocritical people can be.

 

[Steelworth]

Things we're learning today from Antifa:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Julio_Rosas11/status/1147534323987431425

Review the entire timeline to see their hateful insanity.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

Things we're learning today from Antifa:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Julio_Rosas11/status/1147534323987431425

Review the entire timeline to see their hateful insanity.

One day these cowards will assault someone who isn't a soft target. Karma to them.

 

[SteelChip]

One day these cowards will assault someone who isn't a soft target. Karma to them.

[video]https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=AwrDQymXGCFdADAAmRA0nIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTBycT lydWI1BHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDOA--?p=antifa+gets+punched+in+the+face&vid=116bce513fe30cfe4af29432a86626d7&turl=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOV P.YmvFxmEvwJbw69qIzYKvjQEsDh%26pid%3DApi%26h%3D225 %26w%3D300%26c%3D7%26rs%3D1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DD tpfSOfKGRg&tit=%3Cb%3EAntifa%3C%2Fb%3E+Comrade+%3Cb%3EPunched %3C%2Fb%3E+%3Cb%3EIn%3C%2Fb%3E+%3Cb%3EThe%3C%2Fb%3 E+%3Cb%3EFace%3C%2Fb%3E&c=7&h=225&w=300&l=12&sigr=11bagf0er&sigt=125e14d9t&sigi=12qhq2pla&age=1496122154&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&fr=yhs-pty-pty_forms&hsimp=yhs-pty_forms&hspart=pty&tt=b[/video]

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Yeah, things aren't always black and white (figuratively speaking). You won't get a retraction from me on this, nor will you likely accept my explanation either, as you never do.

The fact is the Confederate States were roundly defeated along with their racist, slave owning ways. The confederate flag should be very simply a plain, white flag, representing surrender. You can have a statue or two to remember the losers of this war, and it should definitely be part of school curriculum, museums, etc. It is a part of the nation's history, the dark days of slavery, and the discriminatory policies that were in place all the way up until the civil rights movement.

Having said that, I don't agree with having a bunch of Confederate statues all over the southern states. The losers of wars don't get to erect unlimited statues to honor their heroes. It shouldn't work that way. I totally understand the sentiment those statues are hurtful to a lot of Americans, an almost gloating reminder that the south was once ruled and governed by racist, slave-owning *********. I say there should be several areas preserved at major historic sites where they can concentrate the remaining Confederate statues and museums. Above and beyond that, I see no reason to keep the rest. Same in Germany, you don't see Nazi statues all around, nor do you see the Soviet statues that were torn down all over central Europe after the fall of the Berlin wall.

Just seems to fly in the face of these words, on the same page:

A nation cannot, and should never cut short its history and the important individuals in its past. Be they soldiers, teachers, elected officials. Even great athletes, the Ali's and Dr. J's. There is nothing wrong or unhealthy about being proud of a country's achievements or its past presidents, wood teeth and all.

 

[Spike]

Hey guys, maybe you can help me out, I'm a little confused.

I have recently noticed we haven't had any mobs of BLM supporters burning cop cars and rioting the last couple years, maybe you can explain it to me.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Yeah, things aren't always black and white (figuratively speaking). You won't get a retraction from me on this, nor will you likely accept my explanation either, as you never do.

The fact is the Confederate States were roundly defeated along with their racist, slave owning ways. The confederate flag should be very simply a plain, white flag, representing surrender. You can have a statue or two to remember the losers of this war, and it should definitely be part of school curriculum, museums, etc. It is a part of the nation's history, the dark days of slavery, and the discriminatory policies that were in place all the way up until the civil rights movement.

Having said that, I don't agree with having a bunch of Confederate statues all over the southern states. The losers of wars don't get to erect unlimited statues to honor their heroes. It shouldn't work that way. I totally understand the sentiment those statues are hurtful to a lot of Americans, an almost gloating reminder that the south was once ruled and governed by racist, slave-owning *********. I say there should be several areas preserved at major historic sites where they can concentrate the remaining Confederate statues and museums. Above and beyond that, I see no reason to keep the rest. Same in Germany, you don't see Nazi statues all around, nor do you see the Soviet statues that were torn down all over central Europe after the fall of the Berlin wall.

Further to your post....seems you're wrong...again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentation_Center_Nazi_Party_Rally_Grounds

Just in Berlin:
There is the Berlin Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe
There is the Memorial to Homosexuals Persecuted Under Nazism
There is the Memorial to the Sinti and Roma Victims of National Socialism
There is the the placard marking where Hitler's Bunker once stood
There is a Nazi Museum in Berlin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VgEIsVR4U4, https://www.timesofisrael.com/long-delayed-nazi-museum-to-open-in-munich/
There is an Adolph Hitler Exhibition in Berlin: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pi...t-the-German-Historical-Museum-in-Berlin.html

In numerous German cities are Stolpersteine, subtle, brass plaques at the entrance of many buildings. They commemorate the individual victims of the Holocaust with their name (or names of the family), date(s) of birth, and a brief description of their fate.

There is the Dachau Concentration Camp Memorial.

There is the Concentration Camp Sachsenhausen Memorial.

There is the Concentration Camp Buchenwald Memorial.

There is the Concentration Camp Bergen-Belsen Memorial.

There is the Neuengamme Concentration Camp Memorial.

There is the House of the Wannsee Conference Memorial, where visitors can stand in the very room where the Endlösung or "Final Solution" (ie the Holocaust) was planned out.

There is the Concentration Camp Flossenbürg Memorial.

There is the Topographie des Terrors Museum, one of the most important museums in Berlin, exploring the building of the Nazi party and the atrocities they committed and then the downfall.

Germany just opened a Nazi Museum in the Party’s Former Headquarters:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/germany-just-opened-nazi-museum-180955154/
https://news.artnet.com/exhibitions/germany-opens-nazi-museum-293503

Yet much remains: https://www.inquirer.com/philly/opi...many-communists-monuments-trump-20170817.html

Bad history can be put to good use. Walking around cities like Berlin, Munich, and Nuremberg today, a tourist will not often find an obvious Nazi landmark. Yet many inconspicuous remnants remain, ranging from unremarkable city squares and department store amphitheaters to more famous one-offs, among them a retired airport, an Olympic stadium, Nazi party rally grounds, and a former resort.


Especially fraught places, where the Nazi project was most present, like the Haus der Kunst in Munich — the inaugural venue for the Nazi art exhibit organized to compete with the more popular modernist "Degenerate Art" show across the street — now commit a lion's share of their resources to displaying the art they would have shunned during the Nazi reign. In the hallways, historical timelines lay out the turbulent past.

Empty spaces can talk, but not all should. In Berlin, the Topography of Terror museum fills the space that once held the sprawling lair of Hitler's bureaucracy. It has transformed an otherwise empty lot into a meaningful, and sobering, reminder of the horrors of the Nazi regime.

Erasure comes with no guarantees. Austria has a similar vision for Hitler's birth house. In June, after protracted debates, its Constitutional Court finally authorized government seizure of the structure from its private owners. To this point, the building remains under protection as a historical monument.

Other corners of former East Germany have also striven to preserve this history by allowing many statues of Communist heroes to remain standing. In some small towns, such as Königswusterhausen outside Berlin, streets named after Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels run parallel to each other.

These lessons from Germany should serve as a cautionary tale for Americans rushing to destroy every Confederate monument within reach. Rather than rashly overcompensating for decades of inaction by haphazardly tearing down or hiding Confederate monuments, Americans should have the painful debates necessary to decide the fate of these relics of a bygone era. If German history is any indication, simply turning the page isn't an option.

As the article states, you can't wipe out your history. You acknowledge it and commemorate it. You learn from it. Seems our Liberal idiots tearing down statues are about 80 years behind the learning of Germany. It doesn't work.

But by all means, stand behind destroying the history you WANT to destroy, while simultaneously saying you think it is stupid to white wash the George Washington historical mural. Makes a ton of sense.

 

[Tibs]

Further to your post....seems you're wrong...again.

No, that's exactly what I said. You don't see statues depicting and glorifying Nazi heroes and Nazi German victories.

You want to follow Germany's lead? I'm all for it. Replace all the Confederate statues with memorials to the victims of slavery throughout the south. Erect museums and exhibits showing the atrocities suffered by our African American brothers and sisters. Perfect solution Tim, I like it.

 

[Troglodyte]

Further to your post....seems you're wrong...again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentation_Center_Nazi_Party_Rally_Grounds

Just in Berlin:
There is the Berlin Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe
There is the Memorial to Homosexuals Persecuted Under Nazism
There is the Memorial to the Sinti and Roma Victims of National Socialism
There is the the placard marking where Hitler's Bunker once stood
There is a Nazi Museum in Berlin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VgEIsVR4U4, https://www.timesofisrael.com/long-delayed-nazi-museum-to-open-in-munich/
There is an Adolph Hitler Exhibition in Berlin: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pi...t-the-German-Historical-Museum-in-Berlin.html

In numerous German cities are Stolpersteine, subtle, brass plaques at the entrance of many buildings. They commemorate the individual victims of the Holocaust with their name (or names of the family), date(s) of birth, and a brief description of their fate.

There is the Dachau Concentration Camp Memorial.

There is the Concentration Camp Sachsenhausen Memorial.

There is the Concentration Camp Buchenwald Memorial.

There is the Concentration Camp Bergen-Belsen Memorial.

There is the Neuengamme Concentration Camp Memorial.

There is the House of the Wannsee Conference Memorial, where visitors can stand in the very room where the Endlösung or "Final Solution" (ie the Holocaust) was planned out.

There is the Concentration Camp Flossenbürg Memorial.

There is the Topographie des Terrors Museum, one of the most important museums in Berlin, exploring the building of the Nazi party and the atrocities they committed and then the downfall.

Germany just opened a Nazi Museum in the Party’s Former Headquarters:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/germany-just-opened-nazi-museum-180955154/
https://news.artnet.com/exhibitions/germany-opens-nazi-museum-293503

Yet much remains: https://www.inquirer.com/philly/opi...many-communists-monuments-trump-20170817.html



As the article states, you can't wipe out your history. You acknowledge it and commemorate it. You learn from it. Seems our Liberal idiots tearing down statues are about 80 years behind the learning of Germany. It doesn't work.

But by all means, stand behind destroying the history you WANT to destroy, while simultaneously saying you think it is stupid to white wash the George Washington historical mural. Makes a ton of sense.

Oh for **** sake! Could you be more off base?

There’s a difference between museums and monuments.
There’s a difference between honoring victims and honoring war crime perpetrators.
Nobody is supporting getting rid of Gettysburg or the holocaust museum in D.C.

 

[Booted]

Nobody is supporting getting rid of Gettysburg or the holocaust museum in D.C.

*Yet*........... Baby steps, my friend. Baby steps.

 

[Stewey]

Yeah, things aren't always black and white (figuratively speaking). You won't get a retraction from me on this, nor will you likely accept my explanation either, as you never do.

The fact is the Confederate States were roundly defeated along with their racist, slave owning ways. The confederate flag should be very simply a plain, white flag, representing surrender. You can have a statue or two to remember the losers of this war, and it should definitely be part of school curriculum, museums, etc. It is a part of the nation's history, the dark days of slavery, and the discriminatory policies that were in place all the way up until the civil rights movement.

Having said that, I don't agree with having a bunch of Confederate statues all over the southern states. The losers of wars don't get to erect unlimited statues to honor their heroes. It shouldn't work that way. I totally understand the sentiment those statues are hurtful to a lot of Americans, an almost gloating reminder that the south was once ruled and governed by racist, slave-owning *********. I say there should be several areas preserved at major historic sites where they can concentrate the remaining Confederate statues and museums. Above and beyond that, I see no reason to keep the rest. Same in Germany, you don't see Nazi statues all around, nor do you see the Soviet statues that were torn down all over central Europe after the fall of the Berlin wall.

Looking back its easy to those things. But there are several things you need to keep in mind.

Slavery was the norm worldwide, it was part of every societal culture on the planet and not the invention of white "slave owning *********". Slaves brought here were not captured but rather purchased from African chieftains. The North African slave trade conducted by Muslims preceded the European trans Atlantic slave trade by centuries.

Blacks are equally as responsible for slavery as are whites. Africans enslaved Africans. Slavery so ingrained in African culture that there were over 150 black slave owners...right here in the USA. Native Americans owned black slaves as well.
Yes slavery was wrong, but not perceived as wrong...except by those progressive Northern libtards. Just kidding there. Yes, here was a time in history when liberalism actually was a good thing.

The war against Nazis and the Civil war are two entirely different scenarios and shouldn't be compared to each other.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

I understand why monuments to confederate heroes are a problem. Not sure how I would explain these monuments to my kids - "This guy was a brave leader in the fight for state's rights - to have slaves"? I'm finding it tough to spin that. I understand that the Civil War was about more than slavery, but that's the generally accepted primary reason. You can say it was about states' rights and federalism. That might hold more water if the primary reason they didn't want the federal government telling them what to do was slavery. I'm open to arguments, but I think I am for relocating them to a museum or particular historical area.

Also, I'm all for eliminating reasons to talk about slavery for ****'s sake.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

No, that's exactly what I said. You don't see statues depicting and glorifying Nazi heroes and Nazi German victories.

You want to follow Germany's lead? I'm all for it. Replace all the Confederate statues with memorials to the victims of slavery throughout the south. Erect museums and exhibits showing the atrocities suffered by our African American brothers and sisters. Perfect solution Tim, I like it.

You said "you don't see Nazi statues all around." Germany has more than memorials to victims. There is a Nazi Museum in the former party's headquarters, there is House of the Wannsee Conference Memorial, etc. These for instance aren't memorials.

There seems to be a movement in the USA to eradicate all things Confederate, to erase history - as Liberals did with Alger Hiss - just re-write history.

As the article I linked and copied from says, it doesn't work and we should take their lead.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

There’s a difference between museums and monuments.
Nobody is supporting getting rid of Gettysburg or the holocaust museum in D.C.

Our American Confederate museum, albeit small, closed in 2018. America has NO museum that honors or is dedicated to the Confederate party. And we are insisting on tearing down the statues. We only have Civil War museums and battlefields.

Does Germany only have WWII museums, concentration camp memorials and battlefield memorials? No. They have museums DEDICATED to the Nazis, locations dedicated to the Nazis:
- The House of the Wannsee Conference Memorial, where visitors can stand in the very room where the Endlösung or "Final Solution" (ie the Holocaust) was planned out.
- The Topographie des Terrors Museum, one of the most important museums in Berlin, exploring the building of the Nazi party and the atrocities they committed and then the downfall.
- The Nazi Museum in the Party’s Former Headquarters:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...eum-180955154/
https://news.artnet.com/exhibitions/...-museum-293503

The point I'm trying to make is Tibs said Germany doesn't honor the Nazis with statues and monuments and ****. I'm pointing out that isn't wholly true. Hell, they JUST opened the Nazi Museum in the Party's former HQ 4 years ago. And while we have no museums dedicated to Confederates, Germany has multiple dedicated to Nazis.

Asking Tibs to paint an accurate picture.

 

[Troglodyte]

Our American Confederate museum, albeit small, closed in 2018. America has NO museum that honors or is dedicated to the Confederate party. And we are insisting on tearing down the statues. We only have Civil War museums and battlefields.

Does Germany only have WWII museums, concentration camp memorials and battlefield memorials? No. They have museums DEDICATED to the Nazis, locations dedicated to the Nazis:
- The House of the Wannsee Conference Memorial, where visitors can stand in the very room where the Endlösung or "Final Solution" (ie the Holocaust) was planned out.
- The Topographie des Terrors Museum, one of the most important museums in Berlin, exploring the building of the Nazi party and the atrocities they committed and then the downfall.
- The Nazi Museum in the Party’s Former Headquarters:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...eum-180955154/
https://news.artnet.com/exhibitions/...-museum-293503

The point I'm trying to make is Tibs said Germany doesn't honor the Nazis with statues and monuments and ****. I'm pointing out that isn't wholly true. Hell, they JUST opened the Nazi Museum in the Party's former HQ 4 years ago. And while we have no museums dedicated to Confederates, Germany has multiple dedicated to Nazis.

Asking Tibs to paint an accurate picture.

DC has a crime and punishment museum with Ted Bundy’s Volkswagen Bug. That’s not to honor him. It’s very different than a Ted Bundy monument.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

"One cannot and must not try to erase the past merely because it does not fit the present "

Golda Meir

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

DC has a crime and punishment museum with Ted Bundy’s Volkswagen Bug. That’s not to honor him. It’s very different than a Ted Bundy monument.

Which has nothing to do with the point of my post to Tibs, that you jumped in on, which was to correct his belief that Germany has no memorials, monuments, etc that are focused on the Nazis. It's a horrible part of their history, but they haven't eradicated it. They focus on it, just enough, so we don't forget history.

I mean the one location is called the Nazi Museum and its located IN the party's former Headquarters.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

"One cannot and must not try to erase the past merely because it does not fit the present "

Golda Meir

Bingo. Liberals want to re-write and erase portions of history.

Alger Hiss...again...comes to mind. Darling of the Left even in the 30s and 40s, a Communist many on the Left to this day still defend.

 

[Steelworth]

Alger Hiss, I mean how much clearer does it need to be that it's a snake, and it's eventually going to bite your ***.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana

Or maybe more appropriate for these times, those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[slashsteel]

Which has nothing to do with the point of my post to Tibs, that you jumped in on, which was to correct his belief that Germany has no memorials, monuments, etc that are focused on the Nazis. It's a horrible part of their history, but they haven't eradicated it. They focus on it, just enough, so we don't forget history.

I mean the one location is called the Nazi Museum and its located IN the party's former Headquarters.

Majority of Germans are sickened by what Hitler did,.I do get what you are trying to say though. It exists, it is not hay hurrah'd but it is there. To use as a historical reference.

 

[Steeltime]

Nope. No White Nationalists here.

Pretend I'm black, and said positive things about black citizens that were based in fact.

Would that be permissible? Or some sort of racist jibe?