Which WR is more deserving of the Hall of Fame: Hines Ward or Antonio Brown?

[insaniti]

Forget numbers.
Forget stats.
Forget everything about them off the field.
Forget every argument in this thread for either guy and simply ask yourself this question…..

Team’s in the SB.
Game’s on the line.
Who would you rather have out there in their prime?

The answer to that riddle is Hines and it’s not even close.

Seriously? Brown was just as reliable for Ben, if not more during his time with the steelers. In fact, as good as Ward was (and he's of my all time favorite steelers), he never had the connection that Ben and Brown shared. It was a Manning /Harrison /Wayne type of connection. The back shoulder throws, the toe taps that took slow mo to show how great they were, the precision of his routes. AB was THE BEST WR in the league in his prime.

The throw at the goal line against the Ravens, two guys on him, he reaches across and wins the game /division for us.

Ward was a warrior, and one tough SOB, but talent wise, it's AB hands down.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Sorry insaniti but but Ward has a SB MVP in his reume as well. Pure talent, yes to little chest but deserving of the HOF, WARD 1st. . Add in all the insane on field **** little chest had and the stiffing two teams of $$$denar$$$ the way he did. Sabatoging trades / draft picks are all football related and a hinderence in obtaining the covetted HOF, in my opinion.

As you said, talent wise i'd agree on little chest but definately Ward into the HOF !



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[fedderone]

Seriously? Brown was just as reliable for Ben, if not more during his time with the steelers. In fact, as good as Ward was (and he's of my all time favorite steelers), he never had the connection that Ben and Brown shared. It was a Manning /Harrison /Wayne type of connection. The back shoulder throws, the toe taps that took slow mo to show how great they were, the precision of his routes. AB was THE BEST WR in the league in his prime.

The throw at the goal line against the Ravens, two guys on him, he reaches across and wins the game /division for us.

Ward was a warrior, and one tough SOB, but talent wise, it's AB hands down.

Pure talent as merely a pass catcher? OK, maybe I’ll concede that’s Brown.
But as a complete football player/wide receiver?
Ward, in a runaway.
Ward was a former QB.
Could throw. Best blocker. Could see field/read whole defenses like a QB.
Like I said, I’m NOT dismissing Brown’s talent. Maybe he does deserve HOF. Probably, but there is a question and reasonable reservation.
Hines is UNQUESTIONABLY a HOFer.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Pure talent as merely a pass catcher? OK, maybe I’ll concede that’s Brown.
But as a complete football player/wide receiver?
Ward, in a runaway.
Ward was a former QB.
Could throw. Best blocker. Could see field/read whole defenses like a QB.
Like I said, I’m NOT dismissing Brown’s talent. Maybe he does deserve HOF. Probably, but there is a question and reasonable reservation.
Hines is UNQUESTIONABLY a HOFer.

Another thing, Ward hass 1000+ catches, little chest doesn't. He (little chest) has started this year out with a bang,..... or should I say fight in a scrimage and was sent home.

I know Ward held out on a contract dispute but I don't remeber Waed being such a cancer and trouble maker both on and off field of play..


ALSO, very good post fedderone





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[FatsHolmes]

Another thing, Ward hass 1000+ catches, little chest doesn't. He (little chest) has started this year out with a bang,..... or should I say fight in a scrimage and was sent home.

I know Ward held out on a contract dispute but I don't remeber Waed being such a cancer and trouble maker both on and off field of play..


ALSO, very good post fedderone





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Didn't Ward come out after his holdout and admit it was a mistake and say he wished he hadn't done it? At least that's my memory of it.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Didn't Ward come out after his holdout and admit it was a mistake and say he wished he hadn't done it? At least that's my memory of it.

I'm pretty sure he did and I think he felt he let the STEELERS fan down thus the heart felt remorse. He bled B & G.

Now little chest just took the GREEN-backs and didn't look back except to make sure he had created enough negative to know the STEELERS were done with him and onto next target.

You can't blame little chest as you know chartered helicopter rides and European foot spa treatment are spendy.................................



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[insaniti]

Another thing, Ward hass 1000+ catches, little chest doesn't. He (little chest) has started this year out with a bang,..... or should I say fight in a scrimage and was sent home.

I know Ward held out on a contract dispute but I don't remeber Waed being such a cancer and trouble maker both on and off field of play..


ALSO, very good post fedderone





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First, AB wasn't sent home. He was pulled from practice, and later returned to practice. And I'm not defending AB in this, just pointing out some untruths. Also, most intersquad practices have some sort of fight.

Next, Ward has 1,000 catches exactly. And it was a gift shovel pass that Tomlin designed specifically to give Ward the 1,000th catch.

Brown has 9 1/2 seasons (139 games)and sits at 886 catches. Ward played 14 seasons (217 games)

Ward 4.6 catches per game
Brown 6.4 catches per game.

And that just takes catches into account. Yards is much much closer, just showing how much more explosive Brown was. Ward had 12,083 yards, Brown has 11,746 and is still playing. He will pass Ward easily this year.

Brown dig his hole, missed nearly two full years of prime production. That's completely on him.

Ward was the best blocking WR. Used his IQ to get open, wasn't the most athletic, but was the toughest.

Brown was the best WR. Insane athleticism, incredible body control, was electric as a return man.

 

[slashsteel]

For me it isn't just a statistical comparison. Because Hines blocking caused rule changes. Hines also was the poster child of what it is to be a team player. If you went strictly in season to season stats sure AB was impressive. But to be a HOFer it should be based on total body of work. That SB MVP is important as well as Hines did his best on the biggest stage. That is why Swann is in the HOF and that is partially why Hines gets my vote over AB.

 

[FSF]

From a talent standpoint excluding his mental meltdowns, Brown. Ward was probably a more complete receiver, but the Hall of fame is all about stats.

I watched “A Football Life” on Stallworth and Swann this past weekend.

Ed Bouchette made his argument—which he believes was the key to getting the votes—that if it were all about stats, none of them were needed anymore. They could feed stats into a computer and get the list.

 

[FSF]

First, AB wasn't sent home. He was pulled from practice, and later returned to practice. And I'm not defending AB in this, just pointing out some untruths. Also, most intersquad practices have some sort of fight.

Next, Ward has 1,000 catches exactly. And it was a gift shovel pass that Tomlin designed specifically to give Ward the 1,000th catch.

Brown has 9 1/2 seasons (139 games)and sits at 886 catches. Ward played 14 seasons (217 games)

Ward 4.6 catches per game
Brown 6.4 catches per game.

And that just takes catches into account. Yards is much much closer, just showing how much more explosive Brown was. Ward had 12,083 yards, Brown has 11,746 and is still playing. He will pass Ward easily this year.

Brown dig his hole, missed nearly two full years of prime production. That's completely on him.

Ward was the best blocking WR. Used his IQ to get open, wasn't the most athletic, but was the toughest.

Brown was the best WR. Insane athleticism, incredible body control, was electric as a return man.

Look back to original article. By 2014 Ben was completing significantly more passes than he even attempted 10 years earlier and that trend continued for few years.

 

[FSF]

They're both better than Drew Pearson.

I’d argue Cliff Branch is better than Drew Pearson but it’s semantics.

Pearson was best WR of multiple NFC championships & Super Bowl Championships. It’s an factor & precedent that puts him into similar category as Ward.

 

[Drink IRON City]

First, AB wasn't sent home. He was pulled from practice, and later returned to practice. And I'm not defending AB in this, just pointing out some untruths. Also, most intersquad practices have some sort of fight.

Next, Ward has 1,000 catches exactly. And it was a gift shovel pass that Tomlin designed specifically to give Ward the 1,000th catch.

Brown has 9 1/2 seasons (139 games)and sits at 886 catches. Ward played 14 seasons (217 games)

Ward 4.6 catches per game
Brown 6.4 catches per game.

And that just takes catches into account. Yards is much much closer, just showing how much more explosive Brown was. Ward had 12,083 yards, Brown has 11,746 and is still playing. He will pass Ward easily this year.

Brown dig his hole, missed nearly two full years of prime production. That's completely on him.

Ward was the best blocking WR. Used his IQ to get open, wasn't the most athletic, but was the toughest.

Brown was the best WR. Insane athleticism, incredible body control, was electric as a return man.

All good points but don't lose sight of the main point of the thread

WARD over Brown in the scramble for the HOF induction, currently as of today Ward is clearly my choice.


One last thing, does it really matter how Ward got his 1000th catch........ a gimme shovel pass is still his 1000th catch. Straham got his last sack of the season by a Favre gimme but that don't make the stat anything less. Ward put in the hard work and time to get to 999.

Inter-squad scuffles happen all the time. I must have read an early account or talking head early as I read he was sent packing (my bad) but also it is NOT normal to pull players due to scuffle unless that player took it to extreme. Just another indication of his off field but football related deficiencies. Yes, give him his due of being a very very good WR in the NFL but also give him his due if ignorence as well, yes that does take away some of the allure to the HOF.



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[insaniti]

All good points but don't lose sight of the main point of the thread

WARD over Brown in the scramble for the HOF induction, currently as of today Ward is clearly my choice.


One last thing, does it really matter how Ward got his 1000th catch........ a gimme shovel pass is still his 1000th catch. Straham got his last sack of the season by a Favre gimme but that don't make the stat anything less. Ward put in the hard work and time to get to 999.

Inter-squad scuffles happen all the time. I must have read an early account or talking head early as I read he was sent packing (my bad) but also it is NOT normal to pull players due to scuffle unless that player took it to extreme. Just another indication of his off field but football related deficiencies. Yes, give him his due of being a very very good WR in the NFL but also give him his due if ignorence as well, yes that does take away some of the allure to the HOF.



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I'm not missing the point of the thread. I get it, Ward is an all time great Steeler, beloved by all Steeler fans and Brown is despised because of how things ended. But we've had discussions on the board of this very thing when AB was still putting up crazy numbers for us.

That six year stretch that AB put together is one that may stand awhile. To be that good, that consistent, all while the D is keying on you, and for that long, it's something VERY special. Regardless of how things ended in Pittsburgh.

 

[Drink IRON City]

I'm not missing the point of the thread. I get it, Ward is an all time great Steeler, beloved by all Steeler fans and Brown is despised because of how things ended. But we've had discussions on the board of this very thing when AB was still putting up crazy numbers for us.

That six year stretch that AB put together is one that may stand awhile. To be that good, that consistent, all while the D is keying on you, and for that long, it's something VERY special. Regardless of how things ended in Pittsburgh.

i think we both agree but are just saying it differently. all good here and thanks for the discussion.




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[insaniti]

i think we both agree but are just saying it differently. all good here and thanks for the discussion.




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I think Ward gets in, but the people saying Brown doesn't or shouldn't, I think they are in for a huge surprise.

 

[FSF]

Another thing, Ward hass 1000+ catches, little chest doesn't. He (little chest) has started this year out with a bang,..... or should I say fight in a scrimage and was sent home.

I know Ward held out on a contract dispute but I don't remeber Waed being such a cancer and trouble maker both on and off field of play..


ALSO, very good post fedderone





Salute the nation

Ward's holdout stemmed from signing a deal prior to 2001 and then going on to 4-consecutive Pro Bowl seasons where he shattered Steelers records.

By 2005, with a year left, he felt he deserved a new deal (he had a valid point, considering it was nothing close to the extension Faneca got in 2002 which set an NFL record).

Ward regretted the holdout in retrospect, but the story behind Ward's deal getting done was great. It was a private meeting facilitated by Bettis between Ward and Dan Rooney. No agents, no other team representatives. They worked it out like gentlemen and with a handshake - might be worth and article itself - based on mutual respect and trust.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Ward's holdout stemmed from signing a deal prior to 2001 and then going on to 4-consecutive Pro Bowl seasons where he shattered Steelers records.

By 2005, with a year left, he felt he deserved a new deal (he had a valid point, considering it was nothing close to the extension Faneca got in 2002 which set an NFL record).

Ward regretted the holdout in retrospect, but the story behind Ward's deal getting done was great. It was a private meeting facilitated by Bettis between Ward and Dan Rooney. No agents, no other team representatives. They worked it out like gentlemen and with a handshake - might be worth and article itself - based on mutual respect and trust.

Reading your post I do remeber some of that. Ahhhhh those were the good O'l days. Football is a long cry from those days. (not for the better)

Don't lose site as to how big a leader Jerome Bettis was for this team. He most definately was the face of the franchise. That story by rookie BEN about Jerome coming over and writing his first name, Jerome and his phone number and told Ben that if he ever needs anything to call him as he will be there for him.

Ben Roethlisberger has turned into a pretty good leader as well. I don't care what Little chest and the rest of the talking heads tried to conspire as I feel Ben is a true leader.




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