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Will Howard and Gruden

Steeltime said:
The drills are designed to put the QB in situation where he is not comfortable, moving while trying to establish his base before throwing, and then throwing to very particular spots that are not the planned route. That mimics the NFL since when a play breaks down and the QB moves around to gain some time, he will have to find a target in a spot other than what the routes called for and then need to stick the throw into a tiny window.

Howard struggled in the drills. He just did. That is not dispositive but not a great showing. If he nails the drills, he does not last until the 6th round so personally I'm glad he struggled.
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I was a QB in the late 80's early 90's and my shoulder pads were gargantuan compared to today's QB pads, but I remember getting ready to go to a QB camp in NY and coach loaning me a set (a requirement for the camp) and I practiced hours per day in preparation for it. I get there and we start going through different drills with no shells and I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Coaches on my ***, telling me I should think about RB or WR. Total humiliation. We put on the shells in the afternoon and I'm shredding the drills and got a little confidence back. Coaches giving me the "alright" head nods. Next morning, no shells, 'Oh no...I suck again!!" I realized the pads completely changed my throwing motion, which I was accustomed to.

Long story to get to my point, I wonder how much that impacts these kids in the drills, if at all? Some have no problem, some struggle. Who knows.
 
I was sky-high when they picked Will. He has the size, athleticism, straight-line speed, character, heart, leadership, and is a competitor.

The only knock I have is he didn't beat TTUN.

He did best Nico, Gabriel, Ewers, and Leonard. He would have beaten Sanders too, if he played Colorado.

Going to keep an eye on him and Cap'n Jack.
 
Badcat said:
I was a QB in the late 80's early 90's and my shoulder pads were gargantuan compared to today's QB pads, but I remember getting ready to go to a QB camp in NY and coach loaning me a set (a requirement for the camp) and I practiced hours per day in preparation for it. I get there and we start going through different drills with no shells and I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Coaches on my ***, telling me I should think about RB or WR. Total humiliation. We put on the shells in the afternoon and I'm shredding the drills and got a little confidence back. Coaches giving me the "alright" head nods. Next morning, no shells, 'Oh no...I suck again!!" I realized the pads completely changed my throwing motion, which I was accustomed to.

Long story to get to my point, I wonder how much that impacts these kids in the drills, if at all? Some have no problem, some struggle. Who knows.
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Seems like all the drills should be run in full pads, I’d rather see game speed than shorts and t-shirts speed.
 
SteelerSask2 said:
He's big enough. They have to iron out some mechanical issues and I'm not underselling that. It will he difficult. And sometimes it just won't happen. But if they get that figured and he's got the brain for it....... you might just have something.
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That's the thing: if release/accuracy issues were easy to correct and overcome, a lot more QBs who were held back by those things would have ended up succeeding in the NFL.

Many analysts, including Kurt Warner, just do not consider Howard a natural or fluid thrower of the ball.

There's a lot to like about Howard, but the league (including the Steelers) saw a lot they didn't like for him to last until the 6th round.

The league could turn out to be wrong on him, but when it comes to QBs who are either drafted late or undrafted, the league turns out to be right far more often than not.

For every Tom Brady, Tony Romo, or Brock Purdy, there's a hundred other guys who could never hold down a QB1 role in the league.
 
Badcat said:
I was a QB in the late 80's early 90's and my shoulder pads were gargantuan compared to today's QB pads, but I remember getting ready to go to a QB camp in NY and coach loaning me a set (a requirement for the camp) and I practiced hours per day in preparation for it. I get there and we start going through different drills with no shells and I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Coaches on my ***, telling me I should think about RB or WR. Total humiliation. We put on the shells in the afternoon and I'm shredding the drills and got a little confidence back. Coaches giving me the "alright" head nods. Next morning, no shells, 'Oh no...I suck again!!" I realized the pads completely changed my throwing motion, which I was accustomed to.

Long story to get to my point, I wonder how much that impacts these kids in the drills, if at all? Some have no problem, some struggle. Who knows.
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Its been long suggested that the combine be run in pads, but I guess the nfl doesnt want to spring for all the specialized fitted stuff for all those guys...
pads absolutely change performance.. (which is also why teams only being permitted to run a handful of padded practices a year is so absurd...)

Years ago they did one of those sports science things on 40 times with and without pads... some guys it barely affects and others dramatically change...

so a guy like Jerry rice has a meh 40 time out of pads but probably had the same time in pads, but most faster guys slowed up to his speed wearing pads...


And like you said.. throwing motions and other mechanical actions can be affected too
 
Badcat said:
I was a QB in the late 80's early 90's and my shoulder pads were gargantuan compared to today's QB pads, but I remember getting ready to go to a QB camp in NY and coach loaning me a set (a requirement for the camp) and I practiced hours per day in preparation for it. I get there and we start going through different drills with no shells and I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Coaches on my ***, telling me I should think about RB or WR. Total humiliation. We put on the shells in the afternoon and I'm shredding the drills and got a little confidence back. Coaches giving me the "alright" head nods. Next morning, no shells, 'Oh no...I suck again!!" I realized the pads completely changed my throwing motion, which I was accustomed to.

Long story to get to my point, I wonder how much that impacts these kids in the drills, if at all? Some have no problem, some struggle. Who knows.
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Great story, Badcat. You first-hand experienced how much different the task is when you are wearing the gear and in a more realistic environment.

Somewhat similar experience with me and baseball. I did not pitch in high school but son loved pitching so that was our focus. He was superb, and pitched D1 college in fact. Our bullpens had a goal but pitching in a game? A completely different environment. I would manage a team and a kid would look good in the bullpen, dad would be stoked but I would know ... let's see how it goes with an umpire, fans, opposing batters, baserunners, etc.

In fact it was not the same. My experience was that everybody's an ace in the bullpen.
 
So watching that, am I the only one that hopes gruden gets another chance in the NFL? Say a team in western PA that needs a qb coach?
 
Punxsutawney said:
That's the thing: if release/accuracy issues were easy to correct and overcome, a lot more QBs who were held back by those things would have ended up succeeding in the NFL.

Many analysts, including Kurt Warner, just do not consider Howard a natural or fluid thrower of the ball.

There's a lot to like about Howard, but the league (including the Steelers) saw a lot they didn't like for him to last until the 6th round.

The league could turn out to be wrong on him, but when it comes to QBs who are either drafted late or undrafted, the league turns out to be right far more often than not.

For every Tom Brady, Tony Romo, or Brock Purdy, there's a hundred other guys who could never hold down a QB1 role in the league.
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Yeah. I like Howard as a developmental prospect.. he should be able to be a backup in a year or so and he has traits that could end up being more. Its a nice add in the sixth...

Look Sanders isnt without merit, but if he makes it, the guy is basically gonna run a kenny pickett type offense in the pros and he probably is gonna be a backup for a bit... and I dont think teams thought he had the mindset to be a backup without some disruption...

And while I loved a mid to late round Shough or Dart, both have enough questions that I'm not sure them going as high as they did was warranted... ( though dart at the bottom of the first wasnt too bad...)
I agree expecting too much of Howard right now is foolish, but he was a very good gamble where they drafted him
 
madinsomniac said:
Yeah. I like Howard as a developmental prospect.. he should be able to be a backup in a year or so and he has traits that could end up being more. Its a nice add in the sixth...

Look Sanders isnt without merit, but if he makes it, the guy is basically gonna run a kenny pickett type offense in the pros and he probably is gonna be a backup for a bit... and I dont think teams thought he had the mindset to be a backup without some disruption...

And while I loved a mid to late round Shough or Dart, both have enough questions that I'm not sure them going as high as they did was warranted... ( though dart at the bottom of the first wasnt too bad...)
I agree expecting too much of Howard right now is foolish, but he was a very good gamble where they drafted him
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Given it was widely considered a weak QB class, it's interesting to see the varying views teams had on the QBs considering where they were drafted.

Other than Ward, pretty much all of them had significant question marks about their games that they needed to improve on.

I'm kind of skeptical that the likes of Dart and Shough were really that much better overall prospects than Sanders or Howard, but it seemed to come down more to the traits and skills teams specifically wanted at the position.

In the weaker classes, teams in need of a QB almost always will convince themselves into drafting a QB earlier than they should.

I'm really surprised the Browns waited as long as they did to draft one, and I tend to wonder how much probably reaching for Pickett just a few years ago impacted the Steelers decision to wait into the later rounds.

Even in strong QB classes, there is no guarantee the top prospects will adjust to the speed of the NFL game, or that teams will pick the right player.

Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson all had multiple QBs drafted ahead of them.
 
BLITZ said:
So watching that, am I the only one that hopes gruden gets another chance in the NFL? Say a team in western PA that needs a qb coach?
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And after watching that, recall Juju’s words shortly after arriving in KC. The Steelers are running a caveman offense while other teams are colonizing Mars.

“JuJu told me this week, it is awesome to have an offensive-minded coach in Andy Reid,” Stark said on her talk with Smith-Schuster. “He’s learned more these last few months in Kansas City than he did in all five years in Pittsburgh. He said Reid makes you see the whole field and manages the why picture to understand how to read defenses.”
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Punxsutawney said:
I'm really surprised the Browns waited as long as they did to draft one, and I tend to wonder how much probably reaching for Pickett just a few years ago impacted the Steelers decision to wait into the later rounds.
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I’m still surprised they took two QBs, and judging by the coach and GM’s “reaction” to the Sanders pick, you have to wonder if the overbearing owner vetoed the draft room and picked him.

https://x.com/RuiterWrongFAN/status/1916199179770110046
 
Punxsutawney said:
Even in strong QB classes, there is no guarantee the top prospects will adjust to the speed of the NFL game, or that teams will pick the right player.

Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson all had multiple QBs drafted ahead of them.
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So true, and if the Steelers are picking in the 20’s, they could simply end up with the next JP Losman or Mac Jones if they can’t find a trade partner.
 
WindyCitySteel said:
I’m still surprised they took two QBs, and judging by the coach and GM’s “reaction” to the Sanders pick, you have to wonder if the overbearing owner vetoed the draft room and picked him.

https://x.com/RuiterWrongFAN/status/1916199179770110046
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Drafting two QBs definitely made little sense, especially considering all the potential disruption and distraction Sanders could bring to a crowded QB room.

If Haslam truly felt strongly enough about Sanders to dictate the pick, one has to wonder why he would permit the GM and coach to draft another QB ahead of him.

Maybe they worked their ***** off to sell Haslam on Gabriel, but could no longer hold him off on Sanders when he was still there in the fifth.
 
SteveA said:
Keep hearing this crap & it is freakin' hilarious...People just gonna "DISREGARD" his National Championship run? WTF ?

But these same won't "DISREGARD" a practice passing drill...

Great logic here...So how you perform in practice is more important than leading your team to a National Championship Title run ?

"Practice ? Practice? We're talkin' bout practice man, practice man, we talkin 'bout practice"
- Allen Iverson NBA Basketball Legend
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Great point Steve. I'll take college game tape over throwing drills in shorts. And besides if he has some slightly gimpy technique and the willingness to put in the time.......that can't be fixed? A lot here (including me) act like our coaches should be doing small high school. They know good technique and drills too. As good as anyone in the league.
 
I gave a much closer watch this afternoon. The combine.....issue. Couple head scratcher games Oregon, Michigan especially.......issue. But The Buckeyes beat the brakes off of Gabriel (third round pick) Ducks. That was supposed to be a five star match up and he picked them to pieces and killed them with the long ball. He picked apart and destroyed a very good My Fighting Irish defense. I find it hard to believe any QB in this class interviews better. Gabriel was in the third. Im thinking this kid has potential to be the biggest steal not only of the draft but more.
 
SteelerSask2 said:
I gave a much closer watch this afternoon. The combine.....issue. Couple head scratcher games Oregon, Michigan especially.......issue. But The Buckeyes beat the brakes off of Gabriel (third round pick) Ducks. That was supposed to be a five star match up and he picked them to pieces and killed them with the long ball. He picked apart and destroyed a very good My Fighting Irish defense. I find it hard to believe any QB in this class interviews better. Gabriel was in the third. Im thinking this kid has potential to be the biggest steal not only of the draft but more.
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He brainfarted at the end of the first Oregon game, but was 28-35, 326, 2, 0.
 
Punxsutawney said:
Given it was widely considered a weak QB class, it's interesting to see the varying views teams had on the QBs considering where they were drafted.

Other than Ward, pretty much all of them had significant question marks about their games that they needed to improve on.

I'm kind of skeptical that the likes of Dart and Shough were really that much better overall prospects than Sanders or Howard, but it seemed to come down more to the traits and skills teams specifically wanted at the position.

In the weaker classes, teams in need of a QB almost always will convince themselves into drafting a QB earlier than they should.

I'm really surprised the Browns waited as long as they did to draft one, and I tend to wonder how much probably reaching for Pickett just a few years ago impacted the Steelers decision to wait into the later rounds.

Even in strong QB classes, there is no guarantee the top prospects will adjust to the speed of the NFL game, or that teams will pick the right player.

Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson all had multiple QBs drafted ahead of them.
Click to expand...
Ward was drafted where he was because they needed a QB and they knew he would not be there later. If they passed on on pick 1 or trade back, someone was moving up to take him.
 
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Litos said:
I really liked how he gave the whole credit to Gannon for his offense succes.
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Growing up my daughter was a Raiders fan (Steelers too), and she could throw a football better than most kids in high school. They would refer to her as “The Gannon Cannon”.!!

One of the biggest things I miss about my kids being grown up and living their lives……. Is we don’t play catch anymore.

Remember to play catch when you can and all the time because that special treat disappears fast.


Salute the nation
 
Punxsutawney said:
Drafting two QBs definitely made little sense, especially considering all the potential disruption and distraction Sanders could bring to a crowded QB room.
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Cleveland is in almost the same position at QB as the Steelers, the only difference is that Watson is eating up a shyte ton of cap space without playing.

Drafting 2 QB’s wasn’t the mistake, the 2 they chose was the mistake. I championed picking 2 QB’s for the Steelers, as well as 1-2 more UDFA’s. In this league you have to have a quality QB and Backup to compete. Before the Howard pick they really only had the #3 & 4 QB locked up with the possibility that it could improve to the #2 & #3 QB. Adding more competitors gives you more hope you find a player to man the QB1 position instead of putting one in there by default.
 
Drink IRON City said:
One of the biggest things I miss about my kids being grown up and living their lives……. Is we don’t play catch anymore.

Remember to play catch when you can and all the time because that special treat disappears fast.

Salute the nation
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Love it. Son and I played catch for years and years and years. I also threw thousands of batting practice pitches to him. Thousands ... 100 per session so very likely 25,000 or more.
 
Drink IRON City said:
Growing up my daughter was a Raiders fan (Steelers too), and she could throw a football better than most kids in high school. They would refer to her as “The Gannon Cannon”.!!

One of the biggest things I miss about my kids being grown up and living their lives……. Is we don’t play catch anymore.

Remember to play catch when you can and all the time because that special treat disappears fast.


Salute the nation
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Man that scene in Field of Dreams where he plays catch with his departed father..
 
Drink IRON City said:
Growing up my daughter was a Raiders fan (Steelers too), and she could throw a football better than most kids in high school. They would refer to her as “The Gannon Cannon”.!!

One of the biggest things I miss about my kids being grown up and living their lives……. Is we don’t play catch anymore.

Remember to play catch when you can and all the time because that special treat disappears fast.


Salute the nation
Click to expand...

Assuming she did not grow up in the 70s. The Raiders and steelers thing would have been impossible.
 
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