You gotta be ******' crazy.

[Steelin]

Eric Garner was not committing a crime. He was murdered by the police for no reason.

Philando Castile was not committing a crime. He was shot to death for supposedly reaching for a gun.

Oscar Grant was not committing a crime. He was shot to death by the police for no reason.

This list goes on. And on. And on. Hell, Michael Bennett of the Seahawks was trying to get away from a shooting and was attacked by the police.

He had committed no crime.

The premise of your entire thesis here is entirely, demonstrably, false.

Those were all questionable. I know. But questionable.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

I grew up Arizona and had no idea that there were places with separate fountains, busses, lunch counters???? I was aghast. I at eight years old argued with an elder about church policies. I refused to accept their explanation as valid. I knew nothing of oppression until visiting Mississippi. A thread of it's own, I'm sure.

I grew up in California. In the 80s. When I was a kid it was still normal for a white man to call someone the N-word and nothing to happen. No fight. No upset bystanders. Just another day in America. We've progressed from there.

I think part of why he police issue resonates with Black people is it's one of the few times we have to confront racism dead on. Most of the times it's subtleties. But with the cops it's blatant. That's what makes it so onerous. I don't want this fight. I loved military culture because we were all on the same team. I miss that. The Army is the least racist place I've ever been. But neither side wants to listen to each other out here. They define themselves by what and who they hate, and not by what they love.

I honestly don't know how to fix that. Throw in the "bombastic loudmouths on the radio and tv" and you've got an open flame too close to the TNT boxes.

The war on drugs is a fraud and has ruined many lives both white and black. Hell, you could throw in the entire of humanity. The powers that be kowtowed to the textile magnates and created the demon weed narrative.. It's just my opinion....

It may be just your opinion, but I agree with it. Liked post.

 

[Steelin]

I grew up in California. In the 80s. When I was a kid it was still normal for a white man to call someone the N-word and nothing to happen. No fight. No upset bystanders. Just another day in America. We've progressed from there.

I was in my twenties in Mississippi before I ever, ever experienced this. I called the little five year old demon out and everyone else just moved on. I mean like nothing. It sticks with me to this day.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

I was in my twenties in Mississippi before I ever, ever experienced this. I called the little five year old demon out and everyone else just moved on. I mean like nothing. It sticks with me to this day.

Funnily enough, the last person who called me that was my (ex) wife. In an argument. The makeup head afterword was worth it though...

 

[Stoney]

Eric Garner was not committing a crime. He was murdered by the police for no reason. (Eric Garner was illegally selling cigarettes, certainly not a justifiable reason for his death, but a crime nonetheless. No crime, no contact)

Philando Castile was not committing a crime. He was shot to death for supposedly reaching for a gun. (Castile was armed. Why was he stopped? He allegedly matched the description of a robbery suspect. He was carrying legally and tried to do the right thing, the rest of the stop was a clusterfuck that ended with the officer (imo) overreacting, which may or may not have anything to do with Castle's race. I saw a video just the other day of an officer shooting into a vehicle and killing a white man who was armed and not following commands no protests, no fires, no one shooting at cops.)

Oscar Grant was not committing a crime. He was shot to death by the police for no reason. (Oscar Grant? I got nothing, that was an f'n disaster.)

This list goes on. And on. And on. Hell, Michael Bennett of the Seahawks was trying to get away from a shooting and was attacked by the police. He had committed no crime. (Michael Bennett is no saint. LV poilice were responding to a call of shots fired: "As they moved toward the nightclub, an individual later identified as Bennett was seen crouched down behind a gaming machine as the officers approached," McMahill sald. "Once Bennett was in the officer's view, he quickly ran out the south doors, jumped over a wall onto Flamingo Road East of Las Vegas Boulevard into traffic." *Act like criminal, get treated like a criminal. I'm sure any person of any skin color would've been treated the same way.)


The premise of your entire thesis here is entirely, demonstrably, false. (I disagree. If Eric Garner was't illegally selling cigarettes, he may be alive today. If Michael Brown hadn't committed that robbery, he may be alive today.)

This list goes on. And on. And on. (Please list some more, I'm genuinely curious.)

 

[Yinzerlyn]

Here in Wichita, we have a wonderful police chief. He has made it a point for him and the WPD to go out into the communties and get to know the people. Every month, a different community has a BBQ/community day sponsored by the WPD. It's a chance for fellowship, fun, and for the people to get to trust the police. So far, the response has been great. The citizens feel like the police give a ****, and the police feel like they have garnered the trust of the citizens. Yeah, I know. It's Wichita, NOT LA or NY....but it's something, right?

 

[DBS1970]

Culturally, Black people don't have much respect for established authority. You should consider that it's because they were denied basic human rights for the majority of this country's history. That doesn't wash away overnight. When you complicate it by letting dirty cops walk on obvious misconduct, misconduct caught on tape, it tends erode what credibility that established authority has. Thus the lack of trust/cooperation between Blacks and the system. I don't think it's irreparable, but so long as conservatives insist on enabling police malfeasance there will be no change to the status quo. Throw in drug prohibition and you're throwing napalm on a tire fire.

For laws and law enforcement to be respected they must be just. Our laws and our law enforcement fall short of that standard.

That's not how civilized society works.

You don't get to pick and choose what laws you want to follow.

 

[Steeltime]

I agree.

I think cops should HAVE to live in the neighborhoods they patrol.

Abolish the war on drugs and violent crime will halve itself in under a decade. Make it federal law that all police officers must live in the districts they patrol. Abolish gun control and encourage open carry.

You'd see the safest streets in the history of America, and cops that are revered instead of reviled.

What you are advocating is already in place, in a different manner, in Los Angeles. It's called "community policing." The police get out of the cars, walk among the business owners, residents, etc. They build a rapport with the community.

However, telling Americans where to live is not going going to fly. How about officers who already are on the force? Are you going to order them to sell their homes? Seriously, you criticize (justly in large part) government overreach regarding the drug war, but think it acceptable to tell employees to sell their homes and where they can live?

 

[Coach]

to even want to be a police officer in this country, much less in ANY community that has any kind of minority population in it.

Way to much bullshit to deal with. Entirely too dangerous. **** it. Let them police themselves. That's what they want anyway. Anybody doesn't like that, they can move away.

And if you're dumb enough to live in a community with minimal police protection - buy some ******* guns and learn how to use them. and don't be shy.

The police are here to protect the citizens. If they pulled out of some areas that are anti cops, major crimes such as rape, murder, and drug trafficking would skyrocket, Just can't have that. And Terrorists would love it.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Eric Garner was not committing a crime. He was murdered by the police for no reason.

Philando Castile was not committing a crime. He was shot to death for supposedly reaching for a gun.

Oscar Grant was not committing a crime. He was shot to death by the police for no reason.

This list goes on. And on. And on. Hell, Michael Bennett of the Seahawks was trying to get away from a shooting and was attacked by the police.

He had committed no crime.

The premise of your entire thesis here is entirely, demonstrably, false.

You miss the man's point. When 3% of the country (young black males) are committing up to 70% of the violent crimes in some jurisdictions, ALL blacks are going to get profiled and more of these Garner-like incidents will occur. You cry, scream, yell that white people and/or the government is the reason, is the cause. Get your *** down into the streets and get the violence to stop. And then the Philando Castille situations will stop.

The solution is STOP THE ******* VIOLENCE. The solution is not change the laws/rules or the police force methodologies. Jesus.

I'm a parent. If my sons continue to destroy the things we own in our house, over and over and over, every day, I mete out punishment for the crime. Once in a while, I may make a mistake and punish the wrong son. But based on years and day after day destruction of property, any time I see something broken, I know to look at them. Right or wrong I do, because 99% of the time, they are the culprits. How do I get this circular problem of property destruction to end? Two choices:

A) Figure out how to curtail/stop the destructive behavior of my sons, or
B) Change the rules and punishment given for the destruction of property

Which do you think will fix the actual problem? I want the problem to go away....you think if I change the rules and the associated punishment, that they will stop destroying my things? Delusional if your answer is B.

You do not fix Eric Garner-type problems by changing the laws or the methodology of policing. You fix those problems by reducing violence, reducing crime. Stop killing, stop beating, stop robbing, stop raping and encounters with police will reduce proportionately.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

This list goes on. And on. And on. (Please list some more, I'm genuinely curious.)(Eric Garner was illegally selling cigarettes, certainly not a justifiable reason for his death, but a crime nonetheless. No crime, no contact)

False. He had a CRIMINAL RECORD, which I mentioned, for selling cigarettes. He was not selling anything that day. The arrest has since been deemed unlawful, as the officer involved had no probable cause to suspect a crime had been committed. I know, Fox News never aired that correction, but many other news outlets did.

Eric Garner: 100% innocent on that day.

Here in Wichita, we have a wonderful police chief. He has made it a point for him and the WPD to go out into the communties and get to know the people. Every month, a different community has a BBQ/community day sponsored by the WPD. It's a chance for fellowship, fun, and for the people to get to trust the police. So far, the response has been great. The citizens feel like the police give a ****, and the police feel like they have garnered the trust of the citizens. Yeah, I know. It's Wichita, NOT LA or NY....but it's something, right?

I think this is awesome. It would be harder to do in a large city because the officer/citizen ratio is so different. But it could be done. And truth be told, some have tried. But funding and resistance by the frat boy officer's unions usually kill it before it goes very far.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

Stop killing, stop beating, stop robbing, stop raping and encounters with police will reduce proportionately.

This is the fundamental flaw in conservative thinking with regard to crime. It comes from a religious view of crime, not a pragmatic one. We KNOW that prohibition creates crime. You can choose to ignore that fact if you want, but it doesn't change the fact itself. We KNOW poverty creates crime. You can choose to ignore that fact as well. it doesn't change the fact itself.

Conservatives don't want to solve. They want to judge. It makes you feel good to judge. Makes you feel high and mighty. But it doesn't solve a damn thing. If you ever get past your emotional self satisfaction and decide to become solution oriented, perhaps some of this crime can be reduced. But that would require some level of humility and empathy on your part. I've seen precious little evidence that you posses either.

 

[Buster]

I love how some can argue with "obey the law and don't commit crimes". A large percentage of our population does this everyday. It's really not that difficult.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

I love how some can argue with "obey the law and don't commit crimes". A large percentage of our population does this everyday. It's really not that difficult.

If the law says I have to sit at the back of the bus, should I follow it? If the law says I have to get on a railroad car to Auschwitz, should I follow it? If the law says the government can confiscate all my firearms, should I follow it?

The laws must be just in order to be respected. Our laws are not just.

 

[oneforthebus]

If the law says I have to sit at the back of the bus, should I follow it? If the law says I have to get on a railroad car to Auschwitz, should I follow it? If the law says the government can confiscate all my firearms, should I follow it?

The laws must be just in order to be respected. Our laws are not just.

Is a law that says don't rob a convenience store just? Is a law that says don't punch a cop just? Is a law that says don't lead cops on a high speed chase and then refuse to comply with their orders just?

Please. Yes, there are incidences of cops overreacting. There are, I'm sure, incidences of hateful racist cops. But the vast majority of the incidences you refer to could have been completely avoided if someone had just followed common sense and obeyed completely just laws.

 

[Buster]

If the law says I have to sit at the back of the bus, should I follow it? If the law says I have to get on a railroad car to Auschwitz, should I follow it? If the law says the government can confiscate all my firearms, should I follow it?

The laws must be just in order to be respected. Our laws are not just.

Oh, please. This is 2017. You know exactly what I am talking about and when you can't argue it, you want to go back half a century for an argument. Segregation was ridiculous, but that is a part of history that cannot be changed. Are you actually saying because of segregation, people cannot be expected to obey the laws of society today?

 

[Steel Vanguard]

Is a law that says don't rob a convenience store just? Is a law that says don't punch a cop just? Is a law that says don't lead cops on a high speed chase and then refuse to comply with their orders just?

Please. Yes, there are incidences of cops overreacting. There are, I'm sure, incidences of hateful racist cops. But the vast majority of the incidences you refer to could have been completely avoided if someone had just followed common sense and obeyed completely just laws.

Yes, yes and yes. But the law that says the government has the right to tell you what substances you can put in your body is not. The law that says cops can stop you because you LOOK Hispanic (Sheriff Arpaio) is not. The laws that try to control people's personal choices are not just.

The entire drug war is an unjust nightmare from hell that has caused many, many more deaths than addiction ever could have.

And BTW, as a conservative do you think gun control is just? Do you approve of cops coming onto your property and shooting your children like Ruby Ridge to enforce those laws?

Oh, please. This is 2017. You know exactly what I am talking about and when you can't argue it, you want to go back half a century for an argument. Segregation was ridiculous, but that is a part of history that cannot be changed. Are you actually saying because of segregation, people cannot be expected to obey the laws of society today?

Modern American crime is driven largely by drug prohibition, a totally unjust set of laws. So no, I'm not talking about a half century ago. I'm addressing the very crime you are complaining about.

 

[Buster]

If the law says the government can confiscate all my firearms, should I follow it? .

If you are a felon in possession of firearms, yes.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

If you are a felon in possession of firearms, yes.

Was Randy Weaver a felon when the cops stormed his property and killed his son?

I don't think he was.

 

[Buster]

So, we legalize drugs and the majority of crime goes away. Please tell me you are just trying to be an *** and you really don't believe this to be true.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

This is the fundamental flaw in conservative thinking with regard to crime. It comes from a religious view of crime, not a pragmatic one. We KNOW that prohibition creates crime. You can choose to ignore that fact if you want, but it doesn't change the fact itself. We KNOW poverty creates crime. You can choose to ignore that fact as well. it doesn't change the fact itself.

Conservatives don't want to solve. They want to judge. It makes you feel good to judge. Makes you feel high and mighty. But it doesn't solve a damn thing. If you ever get past your emotional self satisfaction and decide to become solution oriented, perhaps some of this crime can be reduced. But that would require some level of humility and empathy on your part. I've seen precious little evidence that you posses either.

And once again you expose yourself as a judgmental, first class ***.

Poverty does indeed lead to crime...but it doesn't create it. I grew up poor as dirt. I didn't rob or steal. Millions grow up poor and aren't criminals. But poverty is a culprit and needs to be addressed. When I say stop the damned criminal activity, it entails fixing the problem of violence. And that is a multi-faceted problem. Jobs, poverty, eliminate welfare which has destroyed the black community, education. In order to stop the violence, many things need to be done. There's nothing religious about that. You want to make excuses for the black community. There are "some" to be made. But when you see millions of poor people who aren't criminal, the argument becomes a weak one. This is a fact - if the crime lowers so too will the encounters with the police. No arguing that.

And **** you and your stupid stereotypes AGAIN. Stop saying Conservatives don't want to solve and throwing out these baseless inaccurate statements. I don't live in a Conservative bubble. I work and live with the Right and the Left. You still refuse to acknowledge my personal work doing just this...trying to solve some of these problems on a personal level. My family has taken a young African American man under our wing for the past 5 years. Clothed him, bought his family furniture, paid medical bills, taken him to hospitals, fed him, have had him sleep hundreds of nights in our home, and are now helping this young man who just got himself incarcerated. I'll be visiting him Wednesday night at the detention center. My fellow coaches, one of whom is conservative, now houses a young African American man who lives with his white family. They did this to get him out of his cancerous environment, provide him proper family structure, and get him into a proper school. I saw the boy three weeks ago when we were all together. Amazing how a family unit can turn a young man's life around.

The problem is the culture. It's welfare. It's poverty. It's the lack of the family unit (70+% of African American kids being born to unwed mothers). It's a million things. And thank God there are people out there, like my friend and I, that bypass all this SJW bullshit, roll up our sleeves and actually work to help.

There are countless Conservatives around the country that help out daily. Studies show Conservatives are far more charitable with their personal time and money than Liberals. Look it up if you doubt.

But by all means, keep marching to the beat of your warped drum. Keep on living in this fantasy hate-filled world where HuffPo tells you Conservatives are racist and you repeat the thoughts like a parrot. Keep on making an *** out of yourself by repeating these baseless stereotypes.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

So, we legalize drugs and the majority of crime goes away. Please tell me you are just trying to be an *** and you really don't believe this to be true.

Read.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...dly-anyone-dies-from-overdosing-10301780.html

Also, study the Prohibition era in America. Violent crime dropped dramatically after it was abolished. Prohibition creates an economy of violence and thievery. It creates cartels and gangs, then funds them both. You want to end the killing and gang culture, cut off the money supply. Because you sure as hell can't cut of the drug supply.

 

[Buster]

Apple's to oranges. Some people can function using alcohol or weed, even when using in excess. That is not the case with all drugs. The societal problems it would create cannot be ignored.

 

[Buster]

Was Randy Weaver a felon when the cops stormed his property and killed his son?

I don't think he was.

I have no idea who he is. My point is that there are some circumstances when individuals should lose certain rights.

 

[hamster]

Believe it or not, there are actually millions of people that make the decision to not carry a stolen weapon and sell drugs every day. It is a choice, war on drugs or not. And things usually turn out better for them.

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