Tariffs

[oneforthebus]

Quite the unbiased source there. Even discounting that, it is an OPINION piece. Everyone has different opinions

The article is from Fortune magazine and it's about a poll from the Cato Institute. Along with the fact that there are over 500,000 empty manufacturing jobs in this country currently.

 

[Steeltime]

We don't have the labor force or the access to all of the raw materials to ever do that. Let me know when your children, nieces and nephews want to quit their tech or finance jobs and go work in a cobalt or lithium mine.

This is exactly the dismissive attitude that I have come to expect. Simple fact is that whether you like it or not, AI will make a massive number of HR employees, payroll employees, banking employee, and IRS agents unemployed.

Plenty of available labor now. Oh, don't want to get your nails dirty? Eat mud then. Good luck with that.

More than that, are you completely ignorant of the millions of healthy young males who have simply left the workforce?

A large number of American men of prime working age — between 25 and 54 years old — are not working or even looking for work, resulting in a major hole in the American economy.

In 1953, 98% of men in that age range had a job or were looking for one. That number has fallen ever since. Today, 7.2 million men have essentially dropped out of the workforce.

CBS News Mystified at Why the Group Demonized, Minimized and Insulted for the Past 50 Years No Longer Interested in Getting Treated Like **** Any More

7.2 MILLION males ages 25 to 54 no longer even looking for work. Jobs in heavy industry pay and pay well. I represented a guy working for $12 an hour who moved to New Mexico to take advantage of jobs in the oil field and he is now making $42/hour. MTC works a physically demanding job for Amazon but makes a good living.

Pay young men what they are worth and they will work heavy jobs. It really is that simple.

It's a nice little fantasy though.

Every male I know has worked physically demanding jobs at some point and many worked those jobs for years, decades even. I worked in a 100° kitchen washing dishes for $3.35/hour to pay for college. I worked another summer outdoors in my hometown, one of the hottest ******* places on earth, laying concrete and asphalt to build and repair highways. Had to wear long pants, leather leg coverings, a shirt, vest, and helmet. After about 30 minutes of work, all of us were soaked in sweat. 8 hours per day for a very generous $17.85/hour back in 1982.

Personally, I believe several years of very demanding work will make a lot of people a lot better off.

 

[SCSteeler4life]

Only fans and other sex work aside, working in social media is a pretty sweet gig if you can get it.

Manufacturing can be with hard, physical, and/or boring work where you can make decent money but your long term earning potential is pretty limited. Can't blame people for wanting to do easier, more creative, or more pleasant work that has more potential upside if they can find it.

I'm not sure why manufacturing is so glorified, few of us grew up or raised our children with dreams of one day working in a factory. I'm sure there are people who love it and make a decent living at it. That doesn't mean it's going to be the solution to all of this country's quality of life issues.

I’ve worked in manufacturing the last 25 years. I work a skilled level job (maintenance) but started on the line in production. Production associates make a great living 65,000+. It is a great living. I have 5 kids , been able to put them through college and live comfortably. I wouldn’t call it glorified but it has been a great job and career. I don’t understand where hard work and dedication isn’t a good thing anymore. Manufacturing jobs have been the backbone of this country. It’s time to get back to it. The company I work for has over a 26 billion dollar impact in my state alone. What if we had a couple of these in every state ? The impact and quality of life in that area would significantly increase.

 

[oneforthebus]

I’ve worked in manufacturing the last 25 years. I work a skilled level job (maintenance) but started on the line in production. Production associates make a great living 65,000+. It is a great living. I have 5 kids , been able to put them through college and live comfortably. I wouldn’t call it glorified but it has been a great job and career. I don’t understand where hard work and dedication isn’t a good thing anymore. Manufacturing jobs have been the backbone of this country. It’s time to get back to it. The company I work for has over a 26 billion dollar impact in my state alone. What if we had a couple of these in every state ? The impact and quality of life in that area would significantly increase.

There is nothing wrong with a manufacturing job and I'm not putting it down. The point is it's not a job that's in high demand. And not all manufacturing jobs are the same in terms of skill and earnings. You have a lot of people screaming that we desperately need more of them when we can't even fill the ones we already have.

 

[Booted]

 

[Confluence]

For America maybe, but without being able to export cars from Canada to the US, it would likely not be financially feasible in Canada. If a car company could make it with just domestic Canadian sales, they would already have Canadian car companies manufacturing cars for the general population. The production they do have are all specialized niche market vehicles. Maybe they could morph a company or two to make up the vacuum created.

You should read the history of the Auto Pact

 

[oneforthebus]

You can all tout the joys of working in a factory or mine to me all you want...I'm not the one who need convincing, lol. Try to find Americans who want to do that stuff. Sure, if you pay them a ton you will find people. And then everything will cost a ton. It's ok with me, I don't need more stuff. But I'm not sure who it actually benefits.

 

[oneforthebus]

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/14/tariffs-wont-bring-manufacturing-back-to-us-supply-chain-survey.html

• Most companies say high costs will keep them from moving manufacturing back to the U.S., according to a new CNBC Supply Chain survey, and if they do, 81% expect automation to be favored over workers.
• Nearly half say reshoring would double costs and that President Donald Trump’s trade war is more likely to kick off a new global search for low-tariff regimes.
• In the near term, 61% of survey respondents said price hikes are coming and consumer demand will decline, with recession the base case for 63% of respondents.

 

[Confluence]

You can all tout the joys of working in a factory or mine to me all you want...I'm not the one who need convincing, lol. Try to find Americans who want to do that stuff. Sure, if you pay them a ton you will find people. And then everything will cost a ton. It's ok with me, I don't need more stuff. But I'm not sure who it actually benefits.

As SCSteeler laid it out above, the benefits accrue to the worker, the family, the community, the county, the state, etc. where the dignified job exists.

Economists use the term multiplier effect to describe how the money earned/spent provides significant benefits to the economy, BUT this does not capture the social benefits and community uplift from a positive local economy.

I think a decent description would be the exact opposite of the hollowing out of the rust belt from the late 70s onwards.

 

[Steeltime]

 

[Confluence]

There is one really big economic driver that has been missed so far in Trump's initial work: if taxes were lowered, then not only jobs/industry would begin migrating back to the US, but so would the capital needed to drive that growth.

Where has that capital been for the past couple generations? Low tax jurisdictions. Many pharma companies route their earnings thru Puerto Rico/Ireland/etc. to avoid US tax burdens. Nike, for example, has its IP and licensing fees (essentially its net profit) domiciled in Belize, with a 0% tax rate.

This capital needs to come home, with short term carrots and long term sticks.

However, the repatriation of capital has many costs in the international economy. If only we had an economics guru to explain .....

 

[Steeltime]

You can all tout the joys of working in a factory or mine to me all you want...I'm not the one who need convincing, lol. Try to find Americans who want to do that stuff. Sure, if you pay them a ton you will find people. And then everything will cost a ton.

"Everything will cost a ton."

No, for the 3rd time, don't conflate the temporary price increase of some goods with genuine inflation, which only profligate printing of money can cause. The increased wages mean that Americans will now be able to afford more expensive goods. And we will no longer suffer ghettos and burned-out portions of America and blight and decaying infrastructure.

You are simply repeating the mantra of the very people who have intentionally overseen the destruction of American manufacturing and the middle class for the past 35 years. You are pushing to have Americans reliant on our enemies for goods we cannot live without. I am pushing the opposite. It really is that simple.

 

[oneforthebus]

As SCSteeler laid it out above, the benefits accrue to the worker, the family, the community, the county, the state, etc. where the dignified job exists.

Economists use the term multiplier effect to describe how the money earned/spent provides significant benefits to the economy, BUT this does not capture the social benefits and community uplift from a positive local economy.

I think a decent description would be the exact opposite of the hollowing out of the rust belt from the late 70s onwards.

The global economy and supply chain is not going back to the 1950s and 60s no matter how nostalgic we might be for that time. US isolationism isn't going to change that. Our economy will never exist in a vacuum. Those who don't avail themselves of cost efficiencies in the marketplace will lose. The idea that we can just cut off imports (or make them prohibitively expensive) without hurting anything is silly.

 

[oneforthebus]

"Everything will cost a ton."

No, for the 3rd time, don't conflate the temporary price increase of some goods with genuine inflation, which only profligate printing of money can cause. The increased wages mean that Americans will now be able to afford more expensive goods. And we will no longer suffer ghettos and burned-out portions of America and blight and decaying infrastructure.

You are simply repeating the mantra of the very people who have intentionally overseen the destruction of American manufacturing and the middle class for the past 35 years. You are pushing to have Americans reliant on our enemies for goods we cannot live without. I am pushing the opposite. It really is that simple.

No, I'm not. Because you have an "us against them mentality" you think that because I don't support everything Trump has done and how he's done it I must be for the status quo. Nope. I just think there are a lot smarter ways to go about it. There are things it makes sense to bring back here, there are things it makes no sense to bring back here, or that will simply not be coming back here no matter how much we want them to. It's not an all or nothing scenario. It's not simple at all.

 

[Steeltime]

I’ve worked in manufacturing the last 25 years. I work a skilled level job (maintenance) but started on the line in production. Production associates make a great living 65,000+. It is a great living. I have 5 kids , been able to put them through college and live comfortably. I wouldn’t call it glorified but it has been a great job and career. I don’t understand where hard work and dedication isn’t a good thing anymore. Manufacturing jobs have been the backbone of this country. It’s time to get back to it. The company I work for has over a 26 billion dollar impact in my state alone. What if we had a couple of these in every state ? The impact and quality of life in that area would significantly increase.

My belief exactly. I am going to stop working as a lawyer in about a year. I will not sit around, however. Friend owns a fencing company, where his crew spends 10 hours per day or more digging and hauling and pouring cement and chain-sawing lumber. I'm going to ask him if I can work for him when he needs extra help.

I now spend 1.5 hours per night in my home gym, and on the weekends use an axe to break down treefall on my property, and get more joy out of hard labor than I do arguing with some fat **** opposing lawyer whose unfounded ego is surpassed only by her girth.

 

[Confluence]

The global economy and supply chain is not going back to the 1950s and 60s no matter how nostalgic we might be for that time. US isolationism isn't going to change that. Our economy will never exist in a vacuum. Those who don't avail themselves of cost efficiencies in the marketplace will lose. The idea that we can just cut off imports (or make them prohibitively expensive) without hurting anything is silly.

I did not say any of that. Nor did the SCSteeler post i referenced.

The rust belt example was of dignified jobs in communities and regions; that happens all over the world, and is not about the past.

The steel mills ain't coming back; but technology, logistics, agriculture and simple value-added light mfg could easily happen; the effect on rural and small town development, over a couple decades could be dramatic.

 

[oneforthebus]

I'm not sure where anyone got the idea that I'm personally against factory work or hard work in general lol. I'm simply stating facts about the state of our current labor force.

I put myself through school waitressing. My hubby put himself through school with his own landscaping business.

Which by the way the guys around here with landscaping businesses make a good living.

 

[Steeltime]

Which by the way the guys around here with landscaping businesses make a good living.

"As if you can find anybody willing to work in the sun pulling weeds lol"
- OFTB

 

[ZonaBurgh]

My belief exactly. I am going to stop working as a lawyer in about a year. I will not sit around, however. Friend owns a fencing company, where his crew spends 10 hours per day or more digging and hauling and pouring cement and chain-sawing lumber. I'm going to ask him if I can work for him when he needs extra help.

I now spend 1.5 hours per night in my home gym, and on the weekends use an axe to break down treefall on my property, and get more joy out of hard labor than I do arguing with some fat **** opposing lawyer whose unfounded ego is surpassed only by her girth.

We come from a different generation Jimmy. I ran a mill making carpet underlay for General Tire to work my way through college. Seemed like 1000 degrees with humidity to match, but it's what I had to do. As a bonus, most people in our generation weren't overweight. Wonder why?

The country is now reaping the detriment of the everybody gets a trophy generation.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

two simple points:
- is the technology stolen actually covered by global patents?
- what if the Covid lab leak came from a place funded by the US, and that lab used technology developed (maybe at a place like Duke) and transferred from the US to China for creation of same?

1. Doesn't matter because China DGAF.
2. It still happened IN China and Fauci needs to be charged with crimes against humanity and hang for this.

 

[jitter77]

In theory if Americans make more and stuff costs more we are basically breaking even there, but we will be better off because we will be more self-sufficient. The issue is there will still be lower paying jobs who can not afford the price increases. Another issue is where are we putting all these factories. Everyone wants factories everywhere, but I dont think anyone wants to live by them. They want their nice little suburban home. Companies would have to invest millions or billions of dollars for hope their factory will last. After Trump leaves office who knows what will happen and all that time / money could be down the drain. I dont think many companies are willing to take that risk with how unstable things are at the moment. I do think essential things like medicines should be produced in the USA and that should be a priority for any politician.

 

[oneforthebus]

"As if you can find anybody willing to work in the sun pulling weeds lol"
- OFTB

I never said you can’t find ANYONE willing to work in manufacturing jobs. I said you can’t find enough to bring most manufacturing back to the country. Again, 500,000 manufacturing jobs currently unfilled.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Pay young men what they are worth and they will work heavy jobs. It really is that simple.

I laugh at Yinzers here being mad about tariffs* when steel imports wrecked what was a solid way of life here for 100 years.

*They're only mad because the Democrats tell them to be.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I never said you can’t find ANYONE willing to work in manufacturing jobs. I said you can’t find enough to bring most manufacturing back to the country. Again, 500,000 manufacturing jobs currently unfilled.

Also finding people who can pass a drug test is a problem.

 

[MT~Forged]

The article is from Fortune magazine and it's about a poll from the Cato Institute. Along with the fact that there are over 500,000 empty manufacturing jobs in this country currently.

I agree that currently manufacturing jobs are not highly desirable jobs. With fair pay AND cutting off Uncle Sugar’s welfare, they would become more enticing.