Rodgers Signing with Black n’ Gold

[Confluence]

I've personally been a Tomlin defender, but have not been oblivious to the shortcoming. I want to play devil's advocate here to cast blame elsewhere....
(and admittedly ignored most context as I show my face for my yearly preseason-training camp arrival.)

I personally believe that Colbert had more of a say on roster construction than Tomlin.
Colbert was hired in what, 2000? Tomlin in 2007. I'll die on this hill after Colbert desperately tried to make his mark on the way out with Pickett.

We consistently reached in the later years for position of need - Pickett, Burns, Davis, Bush, Jarvis Jones, Green, etc.
Some of those showed flashes - Burns his rookie year, Bush before injury, etc.

Is there an argument that says Tomlin moved players around to fill bigger gaps? Jones moving to RT got him on the field when we needed a replacement for Chuks, without Jones, RT would have been a mess, because we saw Dan Moore was a disaster at RT while serviceable at LT.

The coaching tree is an entirely different conversation that I have no argument for. (and am not oblivious to for that matter, just like Tomlin's abysmal challenge decisions). Tomlin has never lost the locker room.

My main argument that Tomlin's biggest strength of fielding a "competitive," team is also our biggest weakness. Too good for a high draft pick, too bad for a super bowl run. But, to summarize my argument - I think that goes deeper than Tomlin. I look at who has run the organization, and who I believe had the most say and building the rosters, then see the guy who consistently makes us a fringe competitor. with subpar talent. We as fans overlook the fact that the team needed rebuilt. Defense post killer Bs was horrendous, then the entire OL and franchise HOF QB retired in the span of like 2 years.

I think the organizational leaders are too scared to lose that we've become stuck in the middle ground. Thus why we don't move often in the draft. The head coach gets ALL of the blame, but I think it is much, much deeper than what we want to see on the surface level.

Which part of what you wrote would not be clarified from Tomlin being the former HC of the Pittsburgh Steelers?

What is the benefit to the Steelers and Steeler fans from the continuation of the substandard performance from Tomlins teams since 2008?

 

[Pollardo40]

Which part of what you wrote would not be clarified from Tomlin being the former HC of the Pittsburgh Steelers?

What is the benefit to the Steelers and Steeler fans from the continuation of the substandard performance from Tomlins teams since 2008?

It's all in perspective I suppose.
I try to find that perspective. I've been frustrated by fans who hate Tomlin being unable to see any positive, and the ones who love him unable to see any negative.

You're second question is where it becomes difficult to answer. Your comment about "since 2008," comes back to point 1. I'd argue that it directly links to poorly constructed rosters. There were many seasons that even the deepest Tomlin haters would agree that we had no business even making the playoffs with the roster we had. The difference? Tomlin.

I'd argue that the biggest disappointment was the Killer B's era. Though when you look back at AB, Bell, and read the defensive roster, one could argue that it's a miracle that they won as many games as they did. The Jesse James catch ruined that momentum, and the Shazier injury impacted more than some realize. Set us back years losing him.

I do get irritated by fans who have blinders on. You don't have success like Tomlin has had without being a strong coach. So I see through the "he's useless, bad coach," comments of pure negativity that carry no weight when you peel back a few layers.

Though it is true that the message can grow stale. Or often times when you're in a position long enough, you keep doing things the same way and think you're doing the right thing but only spinning your wheels. That could be what we're seeing, and I could see an Andy Reid/Eagles kind of divorce. A change could potentially benefit both sides. But, be careful what you wish for....

 

[BLITZ]

It's all in perspective I suppose.
I try to find that perspective. I've been frustrated by fans who hate Tomlin being unable to see any positive, and the ones who love him unable to see any negative.

You're second question is where it becomes difficult to answer. Your comment about "since 2008," comes back to point 1. I'd argue that it directly links to poorly constructed rosters. There were many seasons that even the deepest Tomlin haters would agree that we had no business even making the playoffs with the roster we had. The difference? Tomlin.

I'd argue that the biggest disappointment was the Killer B's era. Though when you look back at AB, Bell, and read the defensive roster, one could argue that it's a miracle that they won as many games as they did. The Jesse James catch ruined that momentum, and the Shazier injury impacted more than some realize. Set us back years losing him.

I do get irritated by fans who have blinders on. You don't have success like Tomlin has had without being a strong coach. So I see through the "he's useless, bad coach," comments of pure negativity that carry no weight when you peel back a few layers.

Though it is true that the message can grow stale. Or often times when you're in a position long enough, you keep doing things the same way and think you're doing the right thing but only spinning your wheels. That could be what we're seeing, and I could see an Andy Reid/Eagles kind of divorce. A change could potentially benefit both sides. But, be careful what you wish for....

he is not a bad coach. you do not not have a losing season in 18 years without being a good coach. but he has not proven he can get the Steelers back to the top.

your Andy Reid deal is dead on. a split might be good for both parties.

 

[Avoid_Lloyd]

Explain how I have defended him in this conversation. Now think about it a little before you respond. The argument is Tomlin needed a special performance by his QB to win the Super Bowl. Tell me a Super Bowl winning coach that didn't get a special performance somewhere on his team to win it. That's what it takes to win championships! Its not a defense of Tomlin, it offense at an argument that makes no sense.

I get a kick out of guys like you who if anybody gripes about your griping...it's a message board. Does that concept apply to those that disagree with you on occasion?

Think about it this way. Let's say all your griping about Tomlin would get you an audience with Rooney. So you go in there to lay out your case. Are you gonna stick to the facts we all see and are without refute, or are you gonna go in there with some nonsense about Tomlin needing a superlative performance from a player to win?

From one nuthugger to another, have a safe flight.

You’re a holier than tho tool, it’s pretty much all your posts

This time it’s calling someone obsessed with Tomlin when you can’t win your argument while your critcize others for labeling you. We want him fired, he’s run this team into the ground. Thats called giving a **** about this team and not accepting this garbage he’s put out there for 8 years

I’m all for a respectful debate. My issue is with the people who either 5th grade name call or act like they are so refined and bothered by those of us who complain about him on a Steelers chat board and think we don’t have right to complain here as much as we want about the past 8 years. Youre usually the latter.

 

[warriors42]

Quit 'yer bicthin'...You whine like a girl...

If you think that's whining you should be in Vegas at a black jack table with me, I'll show you some ******* whining.

 

[diver]

You’re a holier than tho tool, it’s pretty much all your posts

This time it’s calling someone obsessed with Tomlin. We want him fired, he’s run this team into the ground. Thats called giving a **** about this team and not accepting this garbage he’s put out there for 8 years

I’m all for a respectful debate. My issue is with the people who either 5th grade name call or act like they are so refined and bothered by those of us who complain about him on a Steelers chat board and think we don’t have right to complain here as much as we want about the past 8 years. Youre usually the latter.

You whine about name calling...by name calling.

Look, I try to consider the fact that I am an older guy. I do remember being in my 20s, you are struggling to make ends meet, the oil bill just came in the mail, your child is starting daycare and how the hell are you gonna pay that, one of your wife's friends is getting married and she has to find money for a dress...the Steelers HAD to win. It was an escape. I'm not there anymore, and I try to keep that in mind. Therefore, if you really notice, I do not respond to what I feel are legitimate criticisms of Tomlin. I agree with those. With his record he should be on TV pontificating or somewhere else coaching. But it is the statements that just don't make sense I respond to. You are no dummy, I think you realize that. Don't mistake maturity and seeing things are not always black and white with arrogance. It's years, man.

You absolutely have the right to complain. But don't I have the right to argue with some of those complaints that I feel are not valid?

 

[BLITZ]

I love the solo stove. I was up at the cabin a few years back in January. -4 degrees at night. We had 3 solo stoves going in a triangle kinda and hung out between them and were up boozing to about 3am. I am way too old for that shiit, but we didn't freeze to death with those solo stoves.

I have a huge firepit in back yard
If you have ever seen the show Vikings on history Channel it is like that.
Rectangle about 4 feet long 3 feet wide.
It is to hot for that. Solo stove - perfect for nights like this.

 

[warriors42]

I have a huge firepit in back yard
If you have ever seen the show Vikings on history Channel it is like that.
Rectangle about 4 feet long 3 feet wide.
It is to hot for that. Solo stove - perfect for nights like this.

ok now you're just being a show off. lol. I have a blackstone and a pellet grill and can't cook a steak on either of them worth ****. I HAVE to use my gas or charcoal grill for a steak.

 

[diver]

ok now you're just being a show off. lol. I have a blackstone and a pellet grill and can't cook a steak on either of them worth ****. I HAVE to use my gas or charcoal grill for a steak.

Oh, man. I was a hack for years with a steak. Now, I sear it quick on each side on high heat, then turn it all the way down to let it finish. Seems to work well for me.

 

[Avoid_Lloyd]

You whine about name calling...by name calling.

Look, I try to consider the fact that I am an older guy. I do remember being in my 20s, you are struggling to make ends meet, the oil bill just came in the mail, your child is starting daycare and how the hell are you gonna pay that, one of your wife's friends is getting married and she has to find money for a dress...the Steelers HAD to win. It was an escape. I'm not there anymore, and I try to keep that in mind. Therefore, if you really notice, I do not respond to what I feel are legitimate criticisms of Tomlin. I agree with those. With his record he should be on TV pontificating or somewhere else coaching. But it is the statements that just don't make sense I respond to. You are no dummy, I think you realize that. Don't mistake maturity and seeing things are not always black and white with arrogance. It's years, man.

You absolutely have the right to complain. But don't I have the right to argue with some of those complaints that I feel are not valid?

Whose wining? Again your words not mine.

Argue away, but when you do stuff like bash/look down your nose at everyone complaining about trading Pickens after the draft to make it virtually impossible to get another quality wide receiver-expect a response

The next time this offense scores 6 points in a 1st half with 4 first downs because Tomlin prefers to establish physicality over scoring touchdowns or this team gets their poop pushed in in the playoffs AGAIN you can take solace in “its years man”, just don’t expect the rest of us to lay down for it

 

[diver]

Whose wining? Again your words not mine.

Argue away, but when you do stuff like bash/look down your nose at everyone complaining about trading Pickens after the draft to make it virtually impossible to get another quality wide receiver-expect a response

The next time this offense scores 6 points in a 1st half with 4 first downs because Tomlin prefers to establish physicality over scoring touchdowns or this team gets their poop pushed in in the playoffs AGAIN you can take solace in “its years man”, just don’t expect the rest of us to lay down for it

Looking down my nose? I think if the assertion is they could have traded for him during the draft for a 3rd or higher, I think you need some proof of that before making it. I don't think they had that offer or they would have taken it. That's an opinion, not looking down a nose. In the draft this year WR was not considered a strength of the draft. Therefore, I feel they would have had to draft one in the 1st round to get that impact guy. They didn't have a 2nd, so even if they got an extra 3rd, i'm not sure they are getting that guy. There is no way I draft a Wr at 1 with their needs on the DL.

And what is your "not laying down for it" accomplishing? By all means, have at it. But you really think it makes a difference, huh? Do you get mad at the weather, too?

 

[Fiji Mariner]

It is not meant that way amigo.

I love this board. Have been here forever. Buy it really gets old coming on here everyday and read people batching back and forth every post every day.

So sometimes when peeps are just going at each other, I will just toss in dinner plans. Lighten it up a bit.
Not meant to make anyone think I am above them.
I am self admitted the dumbest poster here.

Food convo is always the great regulator when the masses are hangry, we all LOVE food…one of the common threads to 99% of football junkies.

That being said BACON!!!

And why isn’t there a single airport eatery that specializes in Bacon Sandwiches???

Seems like a huge void that needs filled.

And damn, I absolutely love a good ribeye. Pair it with a chocolate flavored stout to bring out the marbling and then cleanse the pallet with some Angel’s Envy. It’s a can’t miss combo!

 

[Fiji Mariner]

It's all in perspective I suppose.
I try to find that perspective. I've been frustrated by fans who hate Tomlin being unable to see any positive, and the ones who love him unable to see any negative.

You're second question is where it becomes difficult to answer. Your comment about "since 2008," comes back to point 1. I'd argue that it directly links to poorly constructed rosters. There were many seasons that even the deepest Tomlin haters would agree that we had no business even making the playoffs with the roster we had. The difference? Tomlin.

I'd argue that the biggest disappointment was the Killer B's era. Though when you look back at AB, Bell, and read the defensive roster, one could argue that it's a miracle that they won as many games as they did. The Jesse James catch ruined that momentum, and the Shazier injury impacted more than some realize. Set us back years losing him.

I do get irritated by fans who have blinders on. You don't have success like Tomlin has had without being a strong coach. So I see through the "he's useless, bad coach," comments of pure negativity that carry no weight when you peel back a few layers.

Though it is true that the message can grow stale. Or often times when you're in a position long enough, you keep doing things the same way and think you're doing the right thing but only spinning your wheels. That could be what we're seeing, and I could see an Andy Reid/Eagles kind of divorce. A change could potentially benefit both sides. But, be careful what you wish for....

What is the argument for how little he was able to achieve while having a loaded team with Ben, Bell, AB, Heath and Co?

We had top performers at nearly every position and achieved Jack squat.

Combine this with how many seasons Tomlin road Ben to the whole NHALS crap. Tomlin would constrict the team until the 4th quarter with his conservative concepts only for Ben to play Superman (literally drawing up unpracticed plays in the huddle) to snatch victory after victory in 4th quarter comebacks once the Boa Constrictor had lost his grip and Ben squirmed out to lead the team to victory.

Then you get to the recent past (post Ben era) when Rudy saves another NHALS for Mikey only to have Mike go next level conservative vs the Bills in the playoffs and have us finished by halftime.

The greatest coach ever dreams up the genius scheme of turning Watt into Jarvis Jones vs the Rats last year with another one of his abysmal concepts.

If it’s not him doing less with more (the killer Bs)
It’s his regression to this level of conservative, predictable suck that he’s into now.
How does he keep getting worse??? It’s mind boggling…or Ben simply isn’t here to hide the many warts anymore.

His only success occurred when he had the locker room with Cowher’s team/culture. Once that disappeared the success did too.

Did Colbert have his flaws? Certainly
But Mike has consistently done less with more than most coaches. **** I bet Marvin Lewis would’ve got 1-2 with the rosters Mike’s had. Should Marvin Lewis be celebrated as a HC?

It’s absolutely mind boggling that he would even have 5-10% of the fans in his corner at this point…but what the heck this is participation trophy generation so why not celebrate his sustained mediocrity?

 

[stillwright]

What is the argument for how little he was able to achieve while having a loaded team with Ben, Bell, AB, Heath and Co?

We had top performers at nearly every position and achieved Jack squat.

Combine this with how many seasons Tomlin road Ben to the whole NHALS crap. Tomlin would constrict the team until the 4th quarter with his conservative concepts only for Ben to play Superman (literally drawing up unpracticed plays in the huddle) to snatch victory after victory in 4th quarter comebacks once the Boa Constrictor had lost his grip and Ben squirmed out to lead the team to victory.

Then you get to the recent past (post Ben era) when Rudy saves another NHALS for Mikey only to have Mike go next level conservative vs the Bills in the playoffs and have us finished by halftime.

The greatest coach ever dreams up the genius scheme of turning Watt into Jarvis Jones vs the Rats last year with another one of his abysmal concepts.

If it’s not him doing less with more (the killer Bs)
It’s his regression to this level of conservative, predictable suck that he’s into now.
How does he keep getting worse??? It’s mind boggling…or Ben simply isn’t here to hide the many warts anymore.

His only success occurred when he had the locker room with Cowher’s team/culture. Once that disappeared the success did too.

Did Colbert have his flaws? Certainly
But Mike has consistently done less with more than most coaches. **** I bet Marvin Lewis would’ve got 1-2 with the rosters Mike’s had. Should Marvin Lewis be celebrated as a HC?

It’s absolutely mind boggling that he would even have 5-10% of the fans in his corner at this point…but what the heck this is participation trophy generation so why not celebrate his sustained mediocrity?

Money post. I supported Tomlin for years. As the years dragged on. The success faded. As the Cowher players and coaches left....success faded. The more Tomlin refuses to adapt and learn from his failures the more I wish he was gone. His scheme and philosophy is dated. Apparently though, this is the season he will change it all up. Just like it was last season. I will take a "wait and see" approach this season. We need change on both sides of the ball. Time will tell I guess.

 

[stillwright]

if you guys cannot get facts straight STFU...BEN IS NOT IN THE HALL azz wiiiipe

quit the Tomlin whining in June...just Stop Stupid....

i heard the NY Giants need some fans, go moan & groan over there....Biche azz whiners

Quit the Tomlin nut hugging in....June. What has he done in the last 8 years? NOTHING!!!!!

I am sorry. He got you your beloved Tomlinship's. Fingers crossed Roger's gets him another!!!!!

 

[SteveA]

Quit the Tomlin nut hugging in....June.

Neveeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrr.....Hey he is on thin ice with me too but fuckkk guys let's play a damn game...Ya'll (Not you STILLWRIGHT everyone else) biccch too damn much

 

[BLITZ]

ok now you're just being a show off. lol. I have a blackstone and a pellet grill and can't cook a steak on either of them worth ****. I HAVE to use my gas or charcoal grill for a steak.

If I was a show off I would post a pic of the firepit, then a pic of me and Jerome Bettis making smores on said firepit 2 years ago. For 2 reasons I have not done so.

1. I am not a show off.
2. The Jerome thingy never happen. But if it did happen, I would not be a show off and post it

 

[Steelmann]

I didn’t think you could make any dumber posts than you already have, I stand corrected.

Most idiotic post ever, by that logic no coach has ever won a playoff game with a hall of fame QB. As if Ben won’t be in the HOF…..

Congratulations on being the dumbest person here

Your sense of humor is off the charts. I bet you’re just a blast at parties.

 

[BLITZ]

I didn’t think you could make any dumber posts than you already have, I stand corrected.

Most idiotic post ever, by that logic no coach has ever won a playoff game with a hall of fame QB. As if Ben won’t be in the HOF…..

Congratulations on being the dumbest person here

I am the dumbest poster here. No doubt about that

 

[Avoid_Lloyd]

Looking down my nose? I think if the assertion is they could have traded for him during the draft for a 3rd or higher, I think you need some proof of that before making it. I don't think they had that offer or they would have taken it. That's an opinion, not looking down a nose. In the draft this year WR was not considered a strength of the draft. Therefore, I feel they would have had to draft one in the 1st round to get that impact guy. They didn't have a 2nd, so even if they got an extra 3rd, i'm not sure they are getting that guy. There is no way I draft a Wr at 1 with their needs on the DL.

And what is your "not laying down for it" accomplishing? By all means, have at it. But you really think it makes a difference, huh? Do you get mad at the weather, too?

Fans chanting fire Canada at home games got him fired. Rooney was embarrassed into into it, regardless of what Tomlin claims, so yes fans getting fed up can create change.

They could have prepared for Pickens departure in free agency or the draft, only a fool couldn’t see he was going to get traded-just another Tomlin “volunteers not hostages”screw up

 

[Avoid_Lloyd]

Your sense of humor is off the charts. I bet you’re just a blast at parties.

I bet you had a blast watching this team get embarrassed in the playoffs the past 8 seasons

 

[insaniti]

I am making Ribeyes on the blackstone for dinner. Garden potatoes, a side of garden green beans. Good eating

I left mine out in the weather this past winter, and now I'm deciding on just replacing the whole thing, or spending a week or so to refinish the top. It looks like one of those "we rescued this grill from the center of Chernobyl and are gonna refinish it back to new" type videos. The "good" news is that it isn't a REAL blackstone, just an off brand griddle top.

 

[diver]

Fans chanting fire Canada at home games got him fired. Rooney was embarrassed into into it, regardless of what Tomlin claims, so yes fans getting fed up can create change.

They could have prepared for Pickens departure in free agency or the draft, only a fool couldn’t see he was going to get traded-just another Tomlin “volunteers not hostages”screw up

I will concede fans chanting may have gotten Canada canned. However, it seems there is more evidence to support that it didn't, or Tomlin would have been fired years ago. Maybe it had an indirect impact...in that it caused Tomlin to get his head out of his asss and see what was going on there. For all the "Tomlin controls the offense" narrative, guys like DK insist he is actually hands off too much. Something was mentioned around that time of Canada pretty much secluding himself in his office. Which is just as bad.

As it pertains to Pickens...to lay out that assertion...how specifically would you have handled it? Anybody can make generalizations.

 

[diver]

I am the dumbest poster here. No doubt about that

I am the most arrogant, apparently. Dumb and arrogant is no way to go through life.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

I am the dumbest poster here. No doubt about that

Hold my beer.