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Democrat Violence Thread

What radical shift? Again, Clinton and Obama deported millions, never once made the news. This demonizing of ICE and immigration enforcement in general by the left is what’s new. You keep referring to ICE, law enforcement officers who risk their lives every day to arrest and deport criminal illegal aliens, as death squads or goon squads. You are part of the problem. You are the reason people feel free to interfere with and assault them. ICE isn’t causing mayhem and chaos, people like you are. The fact that the Biden administration and sanctuary cities refused to act lawfully for years must be what is confusing you. You and other leftists seize on the one or two missteps out of hundreds of thousands and act like they are the norm. Meanwhile we are getting rid of gang members, drug dealers, human traffickers, rapists, child sex abusers, people defrauding taxpayers out of billions and you and other leftists have nothing positive to say about any of that, ever. Because Trump is president.

You have your head firmly planted in the ground. Your choice, OFTB. Yeah, blame me for ICE causing mayhem and chaos. What a joke.

Documented instances of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents exceeding their legal authority:
  • Unlawful Entry/Detention: Agents using administrative warrants (not signed by a judge) to demand entry into private homes or businesses, or detaining U.S. citizens based on suspicion of illegal presence, violating constitutional rights.
  • Aggressive Tactics: Use of forceful methods like flash-bangs and tear gas during raids, causing distress and fear within communities, even among legal residents.
  • Misconduct & Corruption: Cases of agents taking bribes to facilitate smuggling or other illegal activities, as documented in inspector general reports.

Some more reading, if you feel like stepping out of your bubble:

Why the unchecked power and tactics of ICE under Trump have earned comparisons to secret police​


How ICE Lost Its Guardrails​


Trump Is Weaponizing the USCIS for the First Time in the Agency’s History​


ICE Is the Domestic Terror Threat​

 
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Exactly this:

These are not routine immigration enforcement cases. These are deliberate power moves aimed at demonstrating that ICE answers not to courts or laws, but to the White House. Under Trump’s reassertion of direct executive authority, ICE has been repositioned to function outside traditional legal bounds. He has empowered them to seize protected individuals, ignore judicial orders, and deploy fear as a political tool.

The hallmarks of secret police are not simply secrecy or masks. The Gestapo operated with a chilling degree of visibility. What made them effective was the knowledge that no appeal could stop them. They were “lawful” only in the sense that the law had been rewritten to permit and shield their actions. Their true power came from impunity.

Trump’s regime is openly testing that same model. Deporting a man with protected status is not simply a mistake — it is a statement. Detaining a scholar under vague accusations without evidence, in defiance of court orders, is not security policy — it is intimidation.

MAGA supporters of Trump’s authoritarian have argued that these were isolated incidents. They are not. They reflect a growing pattern of ICE exercising authority in ways incompatible with constitutional checks and balances. Congress has not authorized this power. Courts have not sanctioned it. But ICE, under Trump, is behaving as though it operates outside both.
 
My view on Trump weaponizing ICE is parallel to what I thought about DOGE early on. In both cases, illegal immigration, and wasteful federal spending, respectively, there's a real, undeniable problem that needed to be dealt with. Unfortunately, the belligerent Trump/MAGA way is using a flamethrower, not a scalpel, or even a machete, to get the job done. Consequently, the entire process spins out of control, isn't efficient, ends up in many cases making the problem worse, not better.

Same situation in dealing with illegal drugs being brought into the country. The Coast Guard has full authority to board vessels and arrest suspected criminals. That effort could have been buttressed and supported, and carried out in a systematic way. But no, in Trump's world, it's letting unhinged FoxNews host Pete Hegseth run the military, blasting boats out of the water with no evidence of crimes, no names of suspects, no nothing.

The raid in Caracas to arrest Maduro is yet another example. Same set-up.. same result. We've captured Maduro and his wife, who are sitting in a jail cell awaiting prosecution. Great. Yet the entire Maduro regime has been left intact, who are hunting down Americans in Venezuela as we speak. The raid to capture Maduro resulted in over 100 deaths on the ground, a full military strike was carried out, with no plan in place in how to proceed. When has the Executive Branch ever had war powers? Now it's talk about Trump taking their oil, running the country indefinitely, wanting to rule the entire Western Hemisphere. Greenland, Canada, Mexico are being openly threatened by this administration. This is utter insanity, all of it.

This is not America. This is not the Rule of Law. It's something dictators do. The ends do not justify the means. We can't lose our sanity, and our civility as a nation, as a government, in how we go about our business. The utter failings of the Biden presidency, the ineptitude of the Democratic Party, paved way for Trump's return to power. But as bad as Biden and the Dems may be, that's no excuse to support what is happening now, with non-stop governmental overreach, a foreign policy bordering on madness, and so on. You may see it as an overreaction, an embellishment even, but I truly see signs of a push for autocracy, full top-down control, in what Trump and MAGA are currently doing, both domestically and with foreign policy.

ICE terrorizing Americans around the country, in the off chance they can nab a few illegals, is just a paradigm of a much larger problem that is playing out with this presidency. It is undoubtedly going to get much worse, before it gets better.
To your first point, other than this most recent incident ICE has been extremely patient with those in the street interfering and getting in their face. If allowed to continue I foresee this escalating as the peaceful protestors gain confidence that there will be no consequences for their behavior. The Federal government is showing more restraint than I personally would.

Point 2, I find it difficult to believe, although I am not privy to State Department knowledge, that we didn't know what was on those boats. I do however know 3 different families that have buried a child due to an overdose in the last 5 years. If not for the heroic actions of the EMT's in Phoenix 2 years ago, my son would have been #4, so you'll excuse me if I have no sympathy for those bringing this poison into our country.

Point 3, I'll defer to Litos, someone that actually lives there. You may want to look at his comments regarding Venezuela.

Point 4, ICE is only terrorizing those that aren't here legally, and I applaud that. It's the media and shadow funding groups stirring up those that hate our current President to behave like petulant children and putting themselves in harm's way. And again, those that are here illegally that haven't committed more crimes have a chance to self-deport and return legally. You know, the rule of law.
 
mr-fantastic-cartoon4.jpg
YES!!!

The left has now invoked superhero’s!
 
You have your head firmly planted in the ground. Your choice, OFTB. Yeah, blame me for ICE causing mayhem and chaos. What a joke.

Documented instances of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents exceeding their legal authority:
  • Unlawful Entry/Detention: Agents using administrative warrants (not signed by a judge) to demand entry into private homes or businesses, or detaining U.S. citizens based on suspicion of illegal presence, violating constitutional rights.
  • Aggressive Tactics: Use of forceful methods like flash-bangs and tear gas during raids, causing distress and fear within communities, even among legal residents.
  • Misconduct & Corruption: Cases of agents taking bribes to facilitate smuggling or other illegal activities, as documented in inspector general reports.

Some more reading, if you feel like stepping out of your bubble:

Why the unchecked power and tactics of ICE under Trump have earned comparisons to secret police​


How ICE Lost Its Guardrails​


Trump Is Weaponizing the USCIS for the First Time in the Agency’s History​


ICE Is the Domestic Terror Threat​

So all you lefties are experts in the field now.

where u crying when Obama had ice arresting illegals? I bet u didn’t even think about that then.
You Marxists are the definition of a Hypocrite.
 
To your first point, other than this most recent incident ICE has been extremely patient with those in the street interfering and getting in their face. If allowed to continue I foresee this escalating as the peaceful protestors gain confidence that there will be no consequences for their behavior. The Federal government is showing more restraint than I personally would.

Point 2, I find it difficult to believe, although I am not privy to State Department knowledge, that we didn't know what was on those boats. I do however know 3 different families that have buried a child due to an overdose in the last 5 years. If not for the heroic actions of the EMT's in Phoenix 2 years ago, my son would have been #4, so you'll excuse me if I have no sympathy for those bringing this poison into our country.

Point 3, I'll defer to Litos, someone that actually lives there. You may want to look at his comments regarding Venezuela.

Point 4, ICE is only terrorizing those that aren't here legally, and I applaud that. It's the media and shadow funding groups stirring up those that hate our current President to behave like petulant children and putting themselves in harm's way. And again, those that are here illegally that haven't committed more crimes have a chance to self-deport and return legally. You know, the rule of law.

Thanks for your responses, Zona, appreciate the feedback and the civil discourse. We obviously have a substantially different take on this administration, but it was good conversing with you nonetheless.
 
Thanks for your responses, Zona, appreciate the feedback and the civil discourse. We obviously have a substantially different take on this administration, but it was good conversing with you nonetheless.
Just a bit of advice from an old man, when you start off by calling everyone a fascist the response in turn will likely not be civil in nature.
Go Steelers!
 
Just a bit of advice from an old man, when you start off by calling everyone a fascist the response in turn will likely not be civil in nature.
Go Steelers!

Sure thing. Same advice for all those who call me a radical leftist, a marxist, and much worse, with impunity. If anyone knew the slightest thing about me, you'd understand why I laugh so hard when I see people trying to label me this way. Such is life. And yes, above all else, Go Steelers!
 


Once again, I implore you to WATCH all of the videos posted, not just the ones that support your narrative. 3 shots were fired. There is no way the 1st shot killed her, because she reaches her arm out of the window AFTER that first shot. The first shot was fired from the near head on position, the angled one. The next two were fired through the open drivers window from the side. The 2nd or 3rd shot hit her. After he was hit by the vehicle, which you can audibly hear in the videos.
 
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So the shooting of an innocent American mother of three has now segued into a depraved, homophobic hate fest.

And this is where your argument is lost.

You will/have/do argue that Ashli Babbit was breaking a law and got herself killed.

You ignore the litany of crimes Renee was committing before getting killed - violating the Terry Law, obstructing justice, etc.

There was nothing INNOCENT about her actions. She was not a peaceful protestor, nor a "legal observer."

I challenge you to come to the USA, find an arrest being made, and try to interfere. Let me know how that works out for you.
 
Unfortunately, the belligerent Trump/MAGA way is using a flamethrower, not a scalpel, or even a machete, to get the job done.

I stopped right there.

A flamethrower approach was necessary AFTER President Mashed-Potato brain and his admin negligently, dangerously, and willfully let every illegal immigrant they could find to enter the country, even FLYING them in on our tax dollar expense.

You do realize they intentionally did this and created this problem?

The solution, if it were a scalpel approach, would take decades to rectify.

The massive problem your admin created requires a napalm approach. What the people voted for.
 
So all you lefties are experts in the field now.

where u crying when Obama had ice arresting illegals? I bet u didn’t even think about that then.
You Marxists are the definition of a Hypocrite.
Yep, Obama had ICE doing the same ****. The only reason you never heard about it because he’s a Democrat. Point blank. Period. End of discussion. Couldn’t go out and protest their lord and savior. Their hypocrisy knows no bounds.
 
Once again, I implore you to WATCH all of the videos posted, not just the ones that support your narrative. 3 shots were fired. There is no way the 1st shot killed her, because she reaches her arm out of the window AFTER that first shot. The first shot was fired from the near head on position, the angled one. The next two were fired through the open drivers window from the side. The 2nd or 3rd shot hit her. After he was hit by the vehicle, which you can audibly hear in the vehicle.
The trajectory of the first shot could very easily be determined, but the Feds won’t disclose it. Why? Just like the Epstein files, you want the evidence censored.
 
The trajectory of the first shot could very easily be determined, but the Feds won’t disclose it. Why? Just like the Epstein files, you want the evidence censored.

The videos demonstrate it, but you'll only watch those that support your Liberal position. So it's a futile discussion with you.

You have again devolved to losing the argument.

I want the Epstein files released, and every detail about this shooting released, the Babbit shooting, the Trump assassination attempt and the JFK files.

I just don't have selective outrage guided by my ideology. As you do.
 
The videos demonstrate it, but you'll only watch those that support your Liberal position. So it's a futile discussion with you.
No, the video with the highest resolution shows the shooter standing beside the car. The DOJ is refusing to investigate the shooting. According to you, such an investigation would exonerate the shooter. Why not do that?
You have again devolved to losing the argument.

I want the Epstein files released, and every detail about this shooting released, the Babbit shooting, the Trump assassination attempt and the JFK files.
No you did, then Trump told you didn’t. Now you do mental gymnastics trying to defend mass redactions.
I just don't have selective outrage guided by my ideology. As you do.
Oh, but you do, you do!
 
You have your head firmly planted in the ground. Your choice, OFTB. Yeah, blame me for ICE causing mayhem and chaos. What a joke.

Documented instances of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents exceeding their legal authority:
  • Unlawful Entry/Detention: Agents using administrative warrants (not signed by a judge) to demand entry into private homes or businesses, or detaining U.S. citizens based on suspicion of illegal presence, violating constitutional rights.
  • Aggressive Tactics: Use of forceful methods like flash-bangs and tear gas during raids, causing distress and fear within communities, even among legal residents.
  • Misconduct & Corruption: Cases of agents taking bribes to facilitate smuggling or other illegal activities, as documented in inspector general reports.

Some more reading, if you feel like stepping out of your bubble:

Why the unchecked power and tactics of ICE under Trump have earned comparisons to secret police​


How ICE Lost Its Guardrails​


Trump Is Weaponizing the USCIS for the First Time in the Agency’s History​


ICE Is the Domestic Terror Threat​

look at all those lefty sources.
 
Nothing suspicious about this.


The FBI is investigating it, this has zero to do with civil rights. She wasn’t a peaceful protester standing on the sidewalk holding a sign, she was in a car driving at a a law enforcement officer. Regardless of whether you think his actions were justified or not, there is no evidence that anyone’s civil rights are involved.
 
You have your head firmly planted in the ground. Your choice, OFTB. Yeah, blame me for ICE causing mayhem and chaos. What a joke.

Documented instances of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents exceeding their legal authority:
  • Unlawful Entry/Detention: Agents using administrative warrants (not signed by a judge) to demand entry into private homes or businesses, or detaining U.S. citizens based on suspicion of illegal presence, violating constitutional rights.
  • Aggressive Tactics: Use of forceful methods like flash-bangs and tear gas during raids, causing distress and fear within communities, even among legal residents.
  • Misconduct & Corruption: Cases of agents taking bribes to facilitate smuggling or other illegal activities, as documented in inspector general reports.

Some more reading, if you feel like stepping out of your bubble:

Why the unchecked power and tactics of ICE under Trump have earned comparisons to secret police​


How ICE Lost Its Guardrails​


Trump Is Weaponizing the USCIS for the First Time in the Agency’s History​


ICE Is the Domestic Terror Threat​

Wanted to read these before responding, a lot of hyperbolic, fact-ignoring opinion piece gobbledy-gook that isn’t at all relevant to this discussion. I thought better of you Tibs. There are literally two or three examples (all hotly debated) of people wrongly detained out of hundreds of thousands that the far left harps on over and over again. I laughed out loud at the idea that Good was “harassed” by ICE agents. Truly delusional. A woman gleefully blocking traffic and blaring her horn, her wife taunting and cursing at law enforcement, are now innocent people being “harassed”. The ACLU article sums it up when it states that illegal immigrants shouldn’t have to live in fear of being deported. The bottom line despite your weak protests that you’re for immigration laws and enforcement, is that you view deportation as some kind of evil Gestapo measure. When deportation is the normal and logical outcome of someone who entered or overstayed in this country illegally. It’s the normal and logical outcome in most countries. You keep saying ICE is being “weaponized” when the reality is it’s just finally being mobilized after an immigration free for all under Biden. It’s all liberal propaganda rooted in TDS. As you know I’m not even a big fan of the man but on this he’s correct and on the side of American citizens.

I’m all for immigrants…screened, vetted immigrants who enter legally, and want to work and follow our laws.
 
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Wanted to read these before responding, a lot of hyperbolic, fact-ignoring opinion piece gobbledy-gook that isn’t at all relevant to this discussion. I thought better of you Tibs. There are literally two or three examples (all hotly debated) of people wrongly detained out of hundreds of thousands that the far left harps on over and over again. I laughed out loud at the idea that Good was “harassed” by ICE agents. Truly delusional. A woman gleefully blocking traffic and blaring her horn, her wife taunting and cursing at law enforcement, are now innocent people being “harassed”. The ACLU article sums it up when it states that illegal immigrants shouldn’t have to live in fear of being deported. The bottom line despite your weak protests that you’re for immigration laws and enforcement, is that you view deportation as some kind of evil Gestapo measure. When deportation is the normal and logical outcome of someone who entered or overstayed in this country illegally. It’s the normal and logical outcome in most countries. You keep saying ICE is being “weaponized” when the reality is it’s just finally being mobilized after an immigration free for all under Biden. It’s all liberal propaganda rooted in TDS. As you know I’m not even a big fan of the man but on this he’s correct and on the side of American citizens.

I’m all for immigrants…screened, vetted immigrants who enter legally, and want to work and follow our laws.
Appreciate the response, OFTB. While I disagree on some key points, I respect your take and see where you're coming from.

It's obviously wildly underreported on FoxNews and other pro-Trump outlets, there are some key facts that I think you're a bit eager to sweep away. The misnomers I've seen expressed on this board are mind-numbing, starting with the notion that "nothing has changed with ICE/immigration enforcement, that it was all the same under Obama/Biden," which is pure fiction and fantasy.

I agree with enforcing illegal immigration laws, and deporting illegal aliens and criminals. I agree that Biden and the Dems were incompetent in handling it. My point of contention is the belligerent overreach we're seeing from this administration, as is the case with basically anything and everything they set out to do. The executive branch was not meant to have unabated, unilateral power in this country.

"ICE overreach" is a term used by critics and civil liberties organizations to describe various aggressive U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) tactics and policy shifts that they argue expand the agency's authority beyond its intended scope and violate civil rights

Key facts and points regarding alleged ICE overreach include:
  • Arrest Priorities Shift: Despite claims of targeting serious criminals, data analysis has shown that a significant majority of individuals detained by ICE often have no criminal convictions, or only minor convictions such as traffic violations. This contradicts the stated focus on "the worst of the worst" public safety threats.
  • Wrongful Detention of U.S. Citizens: Reports from ProPublica and other sources have documented more than 170 incidents where U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents were wrongfully detained, sometimes for days without access to lawyers or family, due to aggressive enforcement tactics and appearance-based profiling.
  • Aggressive and Deceptive Tactics:ICE agents have been accused of using a variety of aggressive and sometimes deceptive tactics during arrests and raids, including:
    • Conducting military-style raids on homes and workplaces.
    • Posing as local police or probation officers to gain entry to private residences.
    • Using administrative warrants (signed by ICE officers, not judges) to justify home entries, even though these do not grant the authority to enter a home without consent.
  • Expansion of Detention and Mandatory Detention: ICE has expanded its use of detention facilities, reaching record high populations. The implementation of the Laken Riley Act and subsequent policy changes have broadened the categories of people subject to mandatory detention without the possibility of bond hearings, including vulnerable individuals previously not targeted.
  • Erosion of Due Process: Critics argue that the prioritization of rapid arrests and deportations has often come at the expense of due process protections, making it difficult for detained individuals to fight for legal status or even locate their families and lawyers. According to data compiled by Syracuse University's Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse, 42,755 out of 59,762 people in ICE detention as of September 21, 2025 — about 72% — had no criminal conviction. Of the remaining 28%, many were convicted or charged with minor offenses such as traffic violations.
  • Undermining Community Trust: The use of broad, indiscriminate enforcement and partnerships with local law enforcement agencies through programs like 287(g) has been criticized for creating a climate of fear in immigrant communities. This fear can discourage people from reporting crimes, seeking medical care, or sending their children to school, which critics argue makes communities less safe overall.
 
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Sure thing. Same advice for all those who call me a radical leftist, a marxist, and much worse, with impunity. If anyone knew the slightest thing about me, you'd understand why I laugh so hard when I see people trying to label me this way. Such is life. And yes, above all else, Go Steelers!
On this we agree.
 
Zona, I support strong border security and rigorous immigration laws. I don't support the Trump administration's "radical shift” in tactics that has removed agents from their core missions and training along the Southwest border, and essentially turned them into goon squads that Trump has sent into blue States and cities to cause mayhem and chaos, with untold American citizens being caught up in the fray.

You've always been decent and straightforward in our interactions. Ever the gentleman. Appreciate you for that.
let's start here...

I don't support the Trump administration's "radical shift”
Can you point out the radical shift? Per Google, there hasn't been any significant change of US Immigration Law since... 1990.

1768224507892.png

"stricter enforcement" - meaning the administration began enforcing the laws already on the books that the lawmakers voted on and agreed to implement. Even with THAT, the deportations under the Fuhrer Dictator OrangeManBad paled in comparison to his predecessors.

1768224651093.png

You'll notice an uptick in deportations in 2018 and call that a win, but here's the facts:

1768225249905.png


2018​

December​

DHS Announces Remain in Mexico Program​

On December 20, the Department of Homeland Security announced the implementation of Migrant Protection Protocols (MPP) to combat the exploitation of our asylum system. Using authority under Section 235(b)(2)(C) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA). Under MPP, individuals illegally arriving in or entering the United States from Mexico can be returned to Mexico until their claims are adjudicated.

November​

President Trump Signs Proclamation to Address Deficiencies in the Asylum Process​

On November 9, President Trump signed a presidential proclamation to make important alterations to the asylum process by attempting to reduce the flood of migrants who enter the United States illegally. Under the proclamation, illegal aliens wishing to file an asylum claim were required to present themselves at ports of entry, rather than illegally crossing between ports. FAIR President Dan Stein hailed the proclamation as a “necessary first step” in protecting the integrity of our asylum laws.

October​

President Deploys 5,200 Troops to the U.S.-Mexico Border​

In late October, President Trump deployed 5,200 troops to the U.S.-Mexico border in an attempt to secure it. The move helped to protect against caravans and illegal border crossers while Congress failed to fund the border wall.

September​

Administration Releases New Rule on Public Charge Exclusions​

On September 22, the Department of Homeland Security put forward a proposed rule on public charge exclusions— reiterating the common-sense notion that no immigrant should become a burden to the United States. Immigrants are supposed to be a benefit, not a hardship, to the United States. Additionally, welfare programs are meant to serve the most vulnerable of Americans as stopgap measures to assist them during their times of need.

Trump Administration Lowers FY 2019 Refugee Cap to 30,000​

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced that the United States would set the refugee cap for FY 2019 at 30,000. This is a significant reduction from 45,000 in FY 2018 and President Obama’s cap for FY 2017 (110,000).

----

but, let's take one step back. You said:

has removed agents from their core missions and training along the Southwest border...

while it's convenient of you to point out where you perceive ICE to be ... "training along the Southwest border"... ICE has a completely different mission than being pigeonholed into one quadrant of the country.

Mission: Protect America through criminal investigations and enforcing immigration laws to preserve national security and public safety.

Additionally - you suggest they "train"... train for what, exactly? tiddlywinks, obstacle courses, Guy Fieri's Grocery Challenge? what are they training for? when and where would this training you suggest be used? is it to be used in another country? is it to assist little old ladies crossing the street? maybe in robo-spamming for auto warranties? it's quite confusing that you suggest that they train, but do not tell what precisely they train for. it's almost as if you're talking out of your ***, but we know Flog has your *** stuffed.

oh, wait... from the link above...

Immigration Enforcement​

Securing our nation's borders and safeguarding the integrity of our immigration system is a primary focus of ICE officers and agents throughout the country. Immigration enforcement is the largest single area of responsibility for ERO and is a critical component of the overall safety, security, and well-being of our nation.

While ERO has significant assets near the border, the majority of its immigration enforcement mission takes place in the interior of the country. To accomplish ICE's important immigration enforcement objectives, ERO coordinates closely with law enforcement partners within the U.S. and around the world. One of the most notable law enforcement coordination and partnership efforts within ERO involves the biometric and biographic identification of priority undocumented aliens who are incarcerated within federal, state, and local prisons and jails.

ERO works with law enforcement partners in the shared responsibility for ensuring the safety of our communities through a variety resources and programs. The 287(g) program enables a state or local law enforcement entity to receive delegated authority, training, and technology resources for immigration enforcement within their jurisdictions. ICE's Law Enforcement Support Center coordinates response and enforcement actions with law enforcement partners using biometrics to identify foreign-born individuals arrested for criminal offenses.

ERO also enhances the impact of multi-agency task forces through its administrative authority to arrest individuals deemed a threat to public safety on their unlawful immigration status without additional criminal charges. Finally, leveraging resources available through foreign law enforcement partners including INTERPOL and the ICE Attaché corps, ERO develops investigative leads and provides support in locating and arresting foreign nationals wanted for crimes committed abroad who are now at-large in the U.S.

wow. it's not even as if you might be incorrect in an additional line of thinking, but that you are, 100% demonstrably incorrect in yet one more line of thinking.

maybe go back to what you know - serving lattes and frappacinos to ex-pats like yourself who have no goddamned idea of what the pfuck is going on in THIS country.
 
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