So Bell isn't getting his 14.5 million,
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Defense wins championships! The Steeler defense gets shredded by guys I can't even remember their names. One and done last year at home. That's all I see. The only thing that matters is giving the team the best opportunity to win a championship. I'd let Bell go as soon as I drafted his replacement. Go get your money dude. The Steelers can go get a Lombardi.
LOL if Bell thinks he's as important as AB.
For him to ask for 17 per, he needs to be leading the league among rbs in everything. He didn't lead the league in rushing, not rushing TDs, his ypc was pedestrian, his long run was 27 yards (Bettis's shortest long run of a season was 29). He had 85 catches which lead the league, but he was 4th in receiving yards, Duke Johnson from the Browns who has no QB or wrs had more receiving yards than Bell, his ypc was well below everyone else.
The only thing Bell was elite at this past season was piling up the touches which isn't great fro a RB.
And just because he lines up out of the backfield doesn't make him a wr. He could never line up against CBs and make catches
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For him to ask for 17 per, he needs to be leading the league among rbs in everything. He didn't lead the league in rushing, not rushing TDs, his ypc was pedestrian, his long run was 27 yards (Bettis's shortest long run of a season was 29). He had 85 catches which lead the league, but he was 4th in receiving yards, Duke Johnson from the Browns who has no QB or wrs had more receiving yards than Bell, his ypc was well below everyone else.
The only thing Bell was elite at this past season was piling up the touches which isn't great fro a RB.
And just because he lines up out of the backfield doesn't make him a wr. He could never line up against CBs and make catches
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I know this isn't the popular opinion here but **** this guy.
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Tim Benz: Keep criticism of Steelers' Le'Veon Bell about greed, not production
TIM BENZ Sunday March 11, 2018, 6:34 p.m.
A strange sidebar has emerged surrounding the Le'Veon Bell contract saga.
Who am I kidding? The whole thing is strange. Every time Bell says something, it gets stranger.
But what's become odd is the new narrative that Bell isn't worth the money.
Not that he's being greedy by asking for so much cash. Not that his salary will eat up too much of the cap.
No. The new spin from a lot of fans and media is Bell isn't as good as we've made him out to be.
Funny how that works, huh? If you wear Black and Gold, you are the best "fill-in-the-blank-position."
The minute you leave or, in Bell's case, when you are about to leave, then you weren't that good anyway.
That argument gets cooked up the way most arguments do: through statistics. Or, better said, plucking specific statistics from the pile that make your case and ignore others.
A developing opinion in Pittsburgh is the Steelers should let Bell walk in free agency because he's not worth it.
If you subscribe to the running-back-by-committee approach or the running-back-isn't-that-important school of thought, I disagree.
I'm not going to change your mind. But I disagree.
Where I hope to change your mind is to get you to dismiss attempts that undercut Bell's value by citing a few convenient numbers.
Critics of Bell say his yards per carry average is down from 4.9 in 2015 and '16 to 4.0 last season. His yards per reception dropped from 8.2 to 7.7. His longest rush from scrimmage was only 27 yards. And he was down about one catch per game.
So what?
It shouldn't be surprising his averages are down. This was the first time he went through a season without injury or suspension. More touches can bring down numbers.
Bell still had more catches than any back in football and ranked 10th overall in receptions. He was third in the league in rushing.
When it comes to long rushes, is the realistic goal to go 70 yards or move the sticks?
Bell had 74 rushing first downs. That's the most in the NFL. Catching the ball, he had 31. That's one less than Todd Gurley, who some say has surpassed Bell as the best back in football.
I wonder how many people griping about Bell's lack of long runs also said, "Sure, Willie Parker pops a few long runs. But how consistent is he?"
Now we don't want consistency, we just want big plays?
Bell averages 128.9 yards from scrimmage. That's an NFL record for a player over his first five seasons.
So let's stop with this silliness. Bell's production is still fantastic. We're just mad at him for demanding too much money and are transferring that anger to his on-field production.
Some arguments being made against Bell are also inconsistent. Many people who are crushing his per-game production were also critical of his rusty start last season because he missed training camp.
OK, but after Bell knocked off the rust, his last 12 games were nearly identical to the 12 games he played in '16. Bell's receiving totals were 17 yards apart. His rushing totals, 157.
Basically, he had one extra big game in 2016, and that game was against Baltimore at the end of the year when the Steelers needed him to play. He had 122 yards against the Ravens. He only had 14 carries against Houston this year in Game 15.
By the way, he averaged almost five yards a rush in the process.
None of this is to mention his quality pass blocking either.
The simple truth is, some people are working WAY too hard to support the Steelers' stance of refusing to pay Bell what he wants. The team's decision doesn't need artificial validation. Bell is asking for too much money.
The franchise tag for one year or $12-$13 million for multiple years is plenty.
Can't we keep it simple and say he's just asking for too much instead of pretending he's overrated?
Not paying Bell based on economics makes sense. Trying to invalidate him as a player doesn't.
TIM BENZ Sunday March 11, 2018, 6:34 p.m.
A strange sidebar has emerged surrounding the Le'Veon Bell contract saga.
Who am I kidding? The whole thing is strange. Every time Bell says something, it gets stranger.
But what's become odd is the new narrative that Bell isn't worth the money.
Not that he's being greedy by asking for so much cash. Not that his salary will eat up too much of the cap.
No. The new spin from a lot of fans and media is Bell isn't as good as we've made him out to be.
Funny how that works, huh? If you wear Black and Gold, you are the best "fill-in-the-blank-position."
The minute you leave or, in Bell's case, when you are about to leave, then you weren't that good anyway.
That argument gets cooked up the way most arguments do: through statistics. Or, better said, plucking specific statistics from the pile that make your case and ignore others.
A developing opinion in Pittsburgh is the Steelers should let Bell walk in free agency because he's not worth it.
If you subscribe to the running-back-by-committee approach or the running-back-isn't-that-important school of thought, I disagree.
I'm not going to change your mind. But I disagree.
Where I hope to change your mind is to get you to dismiss attempts that undercut Bell's value by citing a few convenient numbers.
Critics of Bell say his yards per carry average is down from 4.9 in 2015 and '16 to 4.0 last season. His yards per reception dropped from 8.2 to 7.7. His longest rush from scrimmage was only 27 yards. And he was down about one catch per game.
So what?
It shouldn't be surprising his averages are down. This was the first time he went through a season without injury or suspension. More touches can bring down numbers.
Bell still had more catches than any back in football and ranked 10th overall in receptions. He was third in the league in rushing.
When it comes to long rushes, is the realistic goal to go 70 yards or move the sticks?
Bell had 74 rushing first downs. That's the most in the NFL. Catching the ball, he had 31. That's one less than Todd Gurley, who some say has surpassed Bell as the best back in football.
I wonder how many people griping about Bell's lack of long runs also said, "Sure, Willie Parker pops a few long runs. But how consistent is he?"
Now we don't want consistency, we just want big plays?
Bell averages 128.9 yards from scrimmage. That's an NFL record for a player over his first five seasons.
So let's stop with this silliness. Bell's production is still fantastic. We're just mad at him for demanding too much money and are transferring that anger to his on-field production.
Some arguments being made against Bell are also inconsistent. Many people who are crushing his per-game production were also critical of his rusty start last season because he missed training camp.
OK, but after Bell knocked off the rust, his last 12 games were nearly identical to the 12 games he played in '16. Bell's receiving totals were 17 yards apart. His rushing totals, 157.
Basically, he had one extra big game in 2016, and that game was against Baltimore at the end of the year when the Steelers needed him to play. He had 122 yards against the Ravens. He only had 14 carries against Houston this year in Game 15.
By the way, he averaged almost five yards a rush in the process.
None of this is to mention his quality pass blocking either.
The simple truth is, some people are working WAY too hard to support the Steelers' stance of refusing to pay Bell what he wants. The team's decision doesn't need artificial validation. Bell is asking for too much money.
The franchise tag for one year or $12-$13 million for multiple years is plenty.
Can't we keep it simple and say he's just asking for too much instead of pretending he's overrated?
Not paying Bell based on economics makes sense. Trying to invalidate him as a player doesn't.
good article ant. He's not over-rated or should be under valued, but $17M is steep.
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LeVeon Bell is just asking for way to much money, simple as that.
Salute the nation
Salute the nation
Tim Benz is a tool, a mark Madden wanna be.
Bell has never lead the league in yards from scrimmage either.
Everyone agrees he should be the highest paid RB, but not at the ridiculous amount he's asking for
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Bell has never lead the league in yards from scrimmage either.
Everyone agrees he should be the highest paid RB, but not at the ridiculous amount he's asking for
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Because every team with a franchise QB ties up a huge % of their cap in their QB. It's par for the course, so we're in no worse shape than other teams are there. And RBs skills are more replaceable. Not saying there are other guys like Bell, because he's great, but we can get similar production for much cheaper. Without Ben (or a QB of similar worth who would demand similar salary), the way this team is built, we're not contenders.
I can understand wanting to be the highest paid back. I want to pay Bell. But he wants double what any other RB is getting. That puts us in an impossible position to build a team successful at all the positions we need to be successful. It's different. The correct analogy to Ben would be if he was asking for $45m/year.
Just because you deserve to get paid well doesn't mean you deserve to get paid astronomically better than anyone else who does what you do. I wouldn't pay any RB what he wants. It's not about Bell because he's worth a lot, and I'd pay him more than almost any other RB.
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I'm torn on this if he does play this year. On one hand, I want to give him as many touches as possible to run the wheels off for his next team. On the other hand, when he is back at 100%, Connor and any RB drafted must get touches this year.
LMAO, let me know when Ben turns down 50 million per...
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Yeah cause thats my point. Is he or is he not in more of a position to take a hometown discount then anyone else on the team?? 179 million career earnings. Again why cant he take a little less on his last deal to help the team acquire defense. Why does this only apply to Bell?
If Ben is offered at contract that pays him 45 million per and he turns it down, then demands 50 per, he would get buried. He's making quite a bit under his value right now already.
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Again not the point. And only because of new contracts handed out. And again why does Ben need to sign a contract close to what the going rate is now. He has mad a ton of money. If anyone is in position to take less its him. He has made money 14 years worth. Bell play a position with a very short shelf life doesnt it make sense he try to maximize now. What is Ben maximizing??? He has made his money. So again why cant Ben he has to know we need defence just like ive read Bell is a greedy **** not a team player because he wants to take up all the money and leave none to improve the defence
Because that's the market for QBs and RBs, it's not a RBs league anymore. Why didn't AB ask for 32 per? He's had the best 4 year stretch by a wr in history I believe, he asked for market value.
And when people are saying for him to take a discount, it's not like they are asking him to take 9 million per either, they are referring to him passing up on the contract the Steelers offered last off-season that would've made him the highest paid RB by a large margin
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You're thinking of raw dollars and not market value. Sure Ben could take a haircut and that would help the team. But he's not above market rate for his production. If other teams with similar production at QB are paying the same thing, we're not at a disadvantage. It's about building a roster that is competitive, and if the rest of the league pays their QBs, then it's how you manage the rest of the roster that determines your level of competitiveness. What Bell wants blows the idea of market value out of the water.
Like you, I'm all about players getting paid. They have short windows and should try to get whatever they want. I have no disdain toward Bell as a person, I just don't think the Steelers should be the team to pay him what he wants. I wouldn't pay him what he wants if I were ANY team, really, but I only care about the Steelers. We are fans after all. It is in our best interest as fans for the team to win these negotiations. Would it feel good to know a guy got a contract? Ok, if you really like the guy. But I'm a Steelers fan, not just a Le'Veon Bell fan. And I think he's being greedy anyway. I already thought the $14.5m/yr long term deal was too much. If he wants $17m that's just greedy. Good for him if he gets it, but every position, whether it's sports or any industry, has a market rate. And no matter who you are, you can always ask, but what you ask for might get you laughed out of a room. If he really wants $17m that would be like me asking for $300k to do my data analytics.
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Exactly. Nobody here would argue that AB doesn't deserve to get paid. We love him and he's the best WR on the planet. But with a salary cap there's limits to everything. If AB said "I want $32m/year or no deal" then you walk away. Not because AB doesn't deserve to get paid, but because that's greedy, far above market rate, severely damages the team's ability to build a successful roster, and just doesn't make sense.
Deserving to get paid more than what you do, or even a lot, or even the MOST for what you do, doesn't mean you get to write a blank check and get whatever you want. Supply/demand, the market determines what you are worth. Everything has a limit, nobody is worth "whatever I say I'm worth" when there is a finite number of dollars to go around.
Again all of that has nothing to do with what im saying and you know that. What Bell is doing is on him. He doesn't feel the market is right. Is what it is. Im not talking about that. I know what the market is for QBs. Wouldnt it help the team if the QB accepts less then market value to help save money because out of EVERYONE he is in position to do so? Even if Bells is gone next year.
And how will the market rate change is someone doesnt challenge it. And i could see if he didn't have an a legit beef but he does. None of those backs who are getting that market rate do all that he does. So he is challenging the system. And if Ben was in his prime this wouldnt be a question from me.
No player anywhere does that. Just like no player anywhere decides what the market is for his position.
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But your assumption is that the system is wrong. Again, the market determines what you are worth. If all 32 teams have decided there's a limit to what they'll pay RB's, then tough **** you're out of luck. If no one will pay it, then you can retire and sell insurance if you want, but you ain't getting $17m from an NFL team to do what you do. Bell is great yes. I would even argue he should challenge the market. If the most guys are getting is $8m, then fine give him $13m. But there has to be a limit. There's a difference between challenging the market/fighting for your worth and just being greedy. If he truly wants $17m then he's crossed over that line.
If the Browns or someone else wants to give him that, great for him. But I'm glad the Steelers won't. He's a special guy but he's not special enough to decide his own worth if it's not reasonable for a team to pay it (nobody is)
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My assumption?? If bell signed for 8 million im good. If he had signed deal offered last year im good. This is his decision and he has to live with it. I just see his point thats all. I cant cap what he should ask for. Kirk Cousins just recieved the first all guaranteed contract in NFL history. Kirk Cousins. And the jets were willing to go higher. The Steelers who dont overspend have twice now franchised him and paid way more then the market rate. So where there is smoke there is fire so who knows what would get on the open market. It takes one team to set a new rate for backs who do all that he does. Gurley Johnson Elliot are watching.
He's not head shoulders above anyone in what he does, he's not the best pure runner. He may very well be the best pass catching RB, but theres alot of backs that put up good pass catching numbers. Is he the best blocking RB, possible but there's no way of knowing that without watching everyone else snap after snap.
There's nothing that points to him being paid more than double what the next RB is making.
He did challenge the market and won, if he truly wanted to change the market like you say he did it by getting a deal worth 14 million per last season. That's a 175% increase for RBs. When has that ever happened? He's just being greedy and egotistical
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There's nothing that points to him being paid more than double what the next RB is making.
He did challenge the market and won, if he truly wanted to change the market like you say he did it by getting a deal worth 14 million per last season. That's a 175% increase for RBs. When has that ever happened? He's just being greedy and egotistical
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I think we're talking past each other. I'm with you in that it's not my place to "cap" what he should ask for. If he thinks he's worth 90% of a team's salary cap and wants $160m/year, then okay find Le'Veon, ask for that. Hope you get it bro, good luck. I'm all for anyone out there, NFL players or office cubicle paper pushers or anyone, to get what they believe they are worth.
But there's a difference between believing you're worth something, and the people signing the checks believing you are worth that. Especially when there is a finite number of dollars to go around, other guys need to be paid, and the success of the organization doing the paying also depends on the ability to pay those other guys who need to be paid. There's also a difference between making a change to correct a faulty market (him getting $13m would be drastically altering the marketing for RBs) and simply overplaying your hand.
So I don't think either of us here are "wrong" per se. Go on man get your money. I hope you do. Just.. don't expect it, and be ready to be turned down if that's the number you really think you should be getting.
So basically he is overrated in your book? How did he challenge the market when the steelers chose to franchise him. He didnt ask for that.