Tomlin Deserves Credit

[insaniti]

You've always been a rainbows and unicorns and nothing is wrong poster. I see nothing has changed. I even mentioned the fire Cowher threads in THIS thread. Obviously you didn't read that... but that's par for the course. You ***** about reading then you don't read ****. Typical of you.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. Yes you brought up the fire Cowher threads, just as I did. But you fail to see all the people lifting Cowher up to these standards that are well above what he was. I read a lot, but I posted and then 8 pages later I was able to get on the board again.. doesn't change the fact that you read what you want to read.

Tomlin had the hardest position in football to find already on the roster when he took over, he had a franchise QB. How do you think our offenses in the 90's would've been if we had Marino when Cowher took over. Again we went to 4 AFCCG under Cowher without a franchise QB, we've gone to 3 under Tomlin with a franchise QB.

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Cowher coached in an era where a stout D set up to stop the run was THE thing to do. What do you think his teams would do in today's NFL set up to allow the offenses to pretty much do as they please? The Chargers have never been to an AFCCG with Rivers as QB, is he not a franchise QB? This is the spoiled nature of this board. You fail to see how hard it is to win a super bowl at all, let alone to be the only franchise to do it 6 times. "Oh Tomlin has only gone to three AFCCG so he sucks". He has just as many super bowl appearances as Cowher with one less AFCCG appearance.

But this is what you guys love to do, pick and choose the stats to support your agenda. Facts, Cowher won ONE super bowl, Tomlin has won ONE super bowl. That's two super bowls in the life times of many fans that weren't around to see the 70's dynasty. That's pretty damn good. And yet its pile on one coach, and lift the other up to beyond legendary status. We all know Tomlin isn't going anywhere any time soon, it's now how the franchise works. And until he actually has us NOT in contention on a consistent basis, then we can ACTUALLY have something to ***** about. I would LOVE to see him gone after this year, get some fresh blood in here. But I'm a realist and know it's not going to happen.

 

[Steeler Pride]

i am more concerned with the offense. As well as the D played the offense only put up 17. We were gashing them on the ground but still seemed to rely on the deep ball too much. I feel we should have methodically matched down the field

You might be the only person around worried about our offense over our defense...

 

[Vader]

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. Yes you brought up the fire Cowher threads, just as I did. But you fail to see all the people lifting Cowher up to these standards that are well above what he was. I read a lot, but I posted and then 8 pages later I was able to get on the board again.. doesn't change the fact that you read what you want to read.

So I see you went back and did some reading... good for you. Again what "Standards" are you talking about for Cowher? Fact is you read what you want to read. And you see what you want to see. I understand you think you know best on how to rate coaches but as hard as it is to understand others have different opinion and there is nothing wrong with them defending those positions. You seem a bit unhinged because on the one hand everything is fine and on the other hand you want to fire Tomlin. Which makes no sense. IF I felt the coach was good at his job why fire him? Just to bring in "New" blood. So that's your criteria for hiring a new coach.... just wanting "new" blood? That sounds like an arbitrary way to hire and fire coaches. Maybe you should think about it some more?

 

[Coryea]

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. Yes you brought up the fire Cowher threads, just as I did. But you fail to see all the people lifting Cowher up to these standards that are well above what he was. I read a lot, but I posted and then 8 pages later I was able to get on the board again.. doesn't change the fact that you read what you want to read.



Cowher coached in an era where a stout D set up to stop the run was THE thing to do. What do you think his teams would do in today's NFL set up to allow the offenses to pretty much do as they please? The Chargers have never been to an AFCCG with Rivers as QB, is he not a franchise QB? This is the spoiled nature of this board. You fail to see how hard it is to win a super bowl at all, let alone to be the only franchise to do it 6 times. "Oh Tomlin has only gone to three AFCCG so he sucks". He has just as many super bowl appearances as Cowher with one less AFCCG appearance.

But this is what you guys love to do, pick and choose the stats to support your agenda. Facts, Cowher won ONE super bowl, Tomlin has won ONE super bowl. That's two super bowls in the life times of many fans that weren't around to see the 70's dynasty. That's pretty damn good. And yet its pile on one coach, and lift the other up to beyond legendary status. We all know Tomlin isn't going anywhere any time soon, it's now how the franchise works. And until he actually has us NOT in contention on a consistent basis, then we can ACTUALLY have something to ***** about. I would LOVE to see him gone after this year, get some fresh blood in here. But I'm a realist and know it's not going to happen.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. SD made the AFCCG in 2007 with Rivers.
List of QBs that won the super bowl after Cowher took over. Aikmanx3, elwayx2, young, Favre, Warner, Dilfer, Johnson, Bradyx3. Yeah you're right teams just won with stout defenses, QBs weren't important

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[jitter77]

You might be the only person around worried about our offense over our defense...

well we needed a miracle to beat the jags scoring 20. We scored 17 against the Broncos and pats, and 21 against the raiders. We did put up 30 against the chargers, but offense is underperforming right now. The defense is what it is. The offense should be carrying this team. I just feel we have too much talent on offense to be putting up the point totals we have been

 

[mdk2]

I'm critical of Tomlin when we lose. I will give him props when we win a game, nice coaching. The guys were ready to play and locked in.

 

[MT~Forged]

This is exactly why Tomlin will not be fired, they play like *** and down to the competition, and the majority want him gone. Then when they put up a half assed decent game, people think everything will be fine going forward. MT will always follow the Marvin Lewis playbook, just do enough to stay another year.

 

[jitter77]

i saw an article that said Hogan was open by 19.3 yards. That is the most open a WR has been in the last 3 years.

 

[Coryea]

This is exactly why Tomlin will not be fired, they play like *** and down to the competition, and the majority want him gone. Then when they put up a half assed decent game, people think everything will be fine going forward. MT will always follow the Marvin Lewis playbook, just do enough to stay another year.

Yep, we can hold Tom Brady to 10 points, but we allow Chargers to score 18 in the 4th and Carr to score 14 in the 4th

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[Steeler Pride]

well we needed a miracle to beat the jags scoring 20. We scored 17 against the Broncos and pats, and 21 against the raiders. We did put up 30 against the chargers, but offense is underperforming right now. The defense is what it is. The offense should be carrying this team. I just feel we have too much talent on offense to be putting up the point totals we have been

The offense has put this team in a position to win, our defense cannot hold a lead. The Jags still have a good defense, but no offense. We dominated the Broncos and Chargers from an offensive perspective. Ben played 2.5 quarters and put up 21 on the Raiders. If this team had a defense we would be a 2 loss team this year.

 

[MT~Forged]

Yep, we can hold Tom Brady to 10 points, but we allow Chargers to score 18 in the 4th and Carr to score 14 in the 4th

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And that is why I STILL want to see Mr. Rooney move on from Tomlin. We have seen this played out MANY times before, and will continue to see it as long as Tomlin is the coach.

 

[mdk2]

And that is why I STILL want to see Mr. Rooney move on from Tomlin. We have seen this played out MANY times before, and will continue to see it as long as Tomlin is the coach.

Tomlin won't be going anywhere, I would settle for them bringing in a new DC and let them control the defense without Tomlin's input.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

I'm not falling for this **** again. Tomlin sucks.

 

[insaniti]

So I see you went back and did some reading... good for you. Again what "Standards" are you talking about for Cowher? Fact is you read what you want to read. And you see what you want to see. I understand you think you know best on how to rate coaches but as hard as it is to understand others have different opinion and there is nothing wrong with them defending those positions. You seem a bit unhinged because on the one hand everything is fine and on the other hand you want to fire Tomlin. Which makes no sense. IF I felt the coach was good at his job why fire him? Just to bring in "New" blood. So that's your criteria for hiring a new coach.... just wanting "new" blood? That sounds like an arbitrary way to hire and fire coaches. Maybe you should think about it some more?

I don't think everything is fine, I just don't think Tomlin is as bad as he's made out to be on here. Like somehow he's the worst coach in the league. Do I think we should be doing better with the talent we have on the roster? Absolutely. Do I think that Tomlin is a bumbling idiot that has lucked himself into one of the better winning percentages in the league? No I don't. But I don't like our defensive philosophy, and getting rid of butler alone isn't going to change that.

That's where the new blood comes into play. Not simply hiring from within. But it's not going to happen with Tomlin as HC.

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[insaniti]

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. SD made the AFCCG in 2007 with Rivers.
List of QBs that won the super bowl after Cowher took over. Aikmanx3, elwayx2, young, Favre, Warner, Dilfer, Johnson, Bradyx3. Yeah you're right teams just won with stout defenses, QBs weren't important

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What does a list of QBs that won during Cowher's era have anything to do with the fact that he did have a stout D? Does it somehow change the fact that you built your D then from the inside out, stop the run first. That's what Cowher did with his D. And you could easily see that with the DBs we ran out on the field under him.

Do I think Cowher might have been more successful with a better QB? Possibly, but it's just a what if game. But never, not one time, did I say QBs weren't important. All I said was different eras, and his Ds wouldn't have been as great with today's rules...

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[Superman]

Tomlin had the hardest position in football to find already on the roster when he took over, he had a franchise QB. How do you think our offenses in the 90's would've been if we had Marino when Cowher took over. Again we went to 4 AFCCG under Cowher without a franchise QB, we've gone to 3 under Tomlin with a franchise QB.

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and, surprisingly, there wasn't a single QB in any draft, at all, at any time between Bradshaw and Ben whom we could have selected.
****, Cowher didn't even bother drafting a QB until the 6th round of the '94 draft. All hail the savior, Jim Miller. Then Kordell in the 2nd round the following year. Yes, we had O'Donnell, but even after he left, drafting a QB wasn't a priority to Cowher. Which helps explain his reluctance to drafting Ben, too.

 

[Coryea]

and, surprisingly, there wasn't a single QB in any draft, at all, at any time between Bradshaw and Ben whom we could have selected.
****, Cowher didn't even bother drafting a QB until the 6th round of the '94 draft. All hail the savior, Jim Miller. Then Kordell in the 2nd round the following year. Yes, we had O'Donnell, but even after he left, drafting a QB wasn't a priority to Cowher. Which helps explain his reluctance to drafting Ben, too.

Can you find one QB near where we drafted? Guys like Brady don't count.
We went to two AFCCG'S and a Super Bowl with Neil, and had veteran back up, so QB wasn't a huge need at that point.
Kordell showed flashes in 1996 on trick plays. And even the biggest Kordell hater can't say he didn't look like the next big thing in 1997, so you're not going to look for a QB after 1997 or 1998 even, we started out 7-4 and just beat the defending Super Bowl champs in their house on MNF, during the 1999 season you could really see Kordell just wasn't going to cut it, so the 2000 draft would've been the first to start looking for a QB. Cowher talked to Marino and tried to get him to play here for the 2000 season

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[stillwright]

and, surprisingly, there wasn't a single QB in any draft, at all, at any time between Bradshaw and Ben whom we could have selected.
****, Cowher didn't even bother drafting a QB until the 6th round of the '94 draft. All hail the savior, Jim Miller. Then Kordell in the 2nd round the following year. Yes, we had O'Donnell, but even after he left, drafting a QB wasn't a priority to Cowher. Which helps explain his reluctance to drafting Ben, too.

So just because any QB taken by another team didn't pan means if we would have taken one early they wouldn't have panned out for us? If Ben gets drafted by the Browns does he have the same career?

 

[Hines57]

That's Super Bowl Winning Head Coach Michael Vincent Lombardi Tomlin, name your thread correctly peon.

 

[Superman]

Can you find one QB near where we drafted? Guys like Brady don't count.
We went to two AFCCG'S and a Super Bowl with Neil, and had veteran back up, so QB wasn't a huge need at that point.
Kordell showed flashes in 1996 on trick plays. And even the biggest Kordell hater can't say he didn't look like the next big thing in 1997, so you're not going to look for a QB after 1997 or 1998 even, we started out 7-4 and just beat the defending Super Bowl champs in their house on MNF, during the 1999 season you could really see Kordell just wasn't going to cut it, so the 2000 draft would've been the first to start looking for a QB. Cowher talked to Marino and tried to get him to play here for the 2000 season

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Chad Scott - 1997, first round, pick 24
Jake Plummer - 1997, second round, pick 42

Casey Hampton - 2001, first round, pick 19
Drew Brees - 2001, second round, pick 1

*for the record, I'd rather have had Casey, as he was what/who we needed*

I'd rather have had Jake Plummer than Chad Scott

 

[Steeler Pride]

Chad Scott - 1997, first round, pick 24
Jake Plummer - 1997, second round, pick 42

Casey Hampton - 2001, first round, pick 19
Drew Brees - 2001, second round, pick 1

*for the record, I'd rather have had Casey, as he was what/who we needed*

I'd rather have had Jake Plummer than Chad Scott

So we should have drafted Plummer and/or Brees in the first round, well ahead of their projections? Plummer would have gone down as a huge first round bust and nobody would have had Brees going in middle of round one coming out of college, especially at Purdue.

I still don't get why Cowher has anything to do with Tomlin as a coach. Whether Cowher was better/worse has no bearing on evaluating Tomlin and his performance with what he has had on his roster.

 

[Coryea]

Chad Scott - 1997, first round, pick 24
Jake Plummer - 1997, second round, pick 42

Casey Hampton - 2001, first round, pick 19
Drew Brees - 2001, second round, pick 1

*for the record, I'd rather have had Casey, as he was what/who we needed*

I'd rather have had Jake Plummer than Chad Scott

Plummer wasn't rated as round 1 guy, that would've been a huge reach. And you're not going to take a QB when Kordell looked pretty good.

That's all I'm saying, you look where we drafted, in rounds 1 and 2, there weren't any QBs we passed on that we're good. And honestly, there wasn't a real reason to even look for a QB high until 1999

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[slashsteel]

Chard Scott to Artie Burnt to Deon Disfigures to Crezdone Butler to Senquez stolesome to Cortez Fallen to Joe Burntyet.

A rich lineage of suck.

 

[Superman]

So we should have drafted Plummer and/or Brees in the first round, well ahead of their projections? Plummer would have gone down as a huge first round bust and nobody would have had Brees going in middle of round one coming out of college, especially at Purdue.

I still don't get why Cowher has anything to do with Tomlin as a coach. Whether Cowher was better/worse has no bearing on evaluating Tomlin and his performance with what he has had on his roster.

that wasnt the question. the question was which QBs were around when we drafted.
If Plummer were to go down as a first round bust, that's fine. Chad Scott certainly did.

 

[wig]

Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl, guess Don Shula wasted his prime years away too.

That's completely arguable. Miami didn't spend their time and resources building ANYTHING to compliment Marino's passing. They didn't ever put together a true and consistent running game, nor did they ever draft a blue-chip running back. Their defense was never extraordinary. The Dolphins, (The Great Shula included) had a first ballot hall of famer and they didn't do the work to build a dynasty around him.

Actually, through blind luck, the Steelers have done better with Roethlisberger. At least they stumbled into one of the 5 best wideouts to ever play the game, they also have invested and coached up the offensive line to basically turn any running back with a strong will and the ability to see follow a pulling guard into pro-bowlers.

Miami absolutely wasted Marino's career. No doubt about it. The Steelers likely would never have allowed Marino to flourish in the first place. They were committed to power football and smothering defense. Marino was a shiny bauble to them.