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The Coronavirus thread

It's insane.

Here's something that makes absolutely no sense. The IHME model says that right now...CURRENTLY...we are exceeding available ICU beds in Pennsylvania.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/pennsylvania

This is the model that recently doubled total deaths and has everyone in a panic.

But guess what? In actuality we still have 40% of ICU beds available.

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/85054b06472e4208b02285b8557f24cf

Must share, thank you.

A County here in KS- where Dodge City is- has close to 1,000 cases- the highest in the state. It has surpassed Johnson and Wyandotte (where KC is) and Sedgwick (where Wichita is). There is a large meat processing plant there and a lot of farming. 3 weeks ago, there were hardly any cases there. IDK if that is a typical representation for other states with rural populations as well as urban areas, but it does seem strange to me.

Yep, this is beginning to appear very odd to me. Meat and grain and food processing plants aren't in downtown Manhattan. They are in rural areas. It makes no sense at all how it can pop up in those towns, hit a Tysons plant, but be under-represented in more urban areas. Not when the rest of the evidence shows it ravaging urban areas.
 
Must share, thank you.



Yep, this is beginning to appear very odd to me. Meat and grain and food processing plants aren't in downtown Manhattan. They are in rural areas. It makes no sense at all how it can pop up in those towns, hit a Tysons plant, but be under-represented in more urban areas. Not when the rest of the evidence shows it ravaging urban areas.

Yes.....strange days indeed...
 
That is quite different than flatly saying the shutdown hasn’t worked.

I think there is great significance to the numbers. So does South Korea. Unfortunately the US is completely unprepared to deal with this and so we have uncertainty and trepidation in reopening.

If the goal was as originally stated, i.e. slow the spread, it has probably worked, although clearly not all that well.

If the new goal post is reduce the overall number of people who will become infected and die, it hasn't worked at all. And won't. As the 66% number shows, despite our best efforts it will continue to spread.
 
It’s almost as if the media WANTS the American people to starve. They did a 10 minute story on lines for food and how Americans are going hungry (which when you compare our “hunger” to those of third-world countries, we STILL have too much food) on the news last night. The tone in the reporter’s voice was both condescending and gleeful. He sounded happy there were food lines and happy the meat processing plants were getting shut down...but he was definitely a condescending prick when it came to making sure we all took precautions to be “safe.”
 
A County here in KS- where Dodge City is- has close to 1,000 cases- the highest in the state. It has surpassed Johnson and Wyandotte (where KC is) and Sedgwick (where Wichita is). There is a large meat processing plant there and a lot of farming. 3 weeks ago, there were hardly any cases there. IDK if that is a typical representation for other states with rural populations as well as urban areas, but it does seem strange to me.

There’s several rural outbreaks surrounding meat processing plants where the employees spread it to the rest of the community.
 
I think the question is how and why is hitting these plants so hard in the first place Trog.

Trog don't get logic, therefore Trog don't follow questions good.
 
Australia Projects More Deaths From Suicides In Lockdown Than From The Virus Itself


Australian researchers projected Thursday that more deaths may come from suicides increasing in lockdown than from the coronavirus itself.

Researchers at Sydney University “predicted an additional 750 to 1,500 suicides per year for up to five years as a result of the impacts of the pandemic and economic shutdowns imposed to curb its spread,” according to a piece published in the UK Telegraph.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">‘Suicide rates in Australia are forecast to rise by up to 50 per cent due to the economic and social impacts of the coronavirus and tipped to outstrip deaths from the pandemic by up to 10 times.’<br><br>And these people will not have a median age of 80. <a href="https://t.co/315AM6OMaU">https://t.co/315AM6OMaU</a></p>— Rita Panahi (@RitaPanahi) <a href="https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/1258158977889628161?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 6, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Coronavirus lockdowns continue around many parts of the world, but some have questioned the efficacy of the policies, which are now wreaking havoc on the U.S. and world economy.

President Trump has repeatedly warned of the possibility that suicides will increase due to businesses failing and people being forced to stay inside.
 
COVID-19 lockdown risks 1.4 mn extra TB deaths: study

The global lockdown caused by COVID-19 risks a "devastating" surge in tuberculosis cases, with nearly 1.4 million additional deaths from the world's biggest infectious killer by 2025, new research showed Wednesday.

TB, a bacterial infection that normally attacks patients' lungs, is largely treatable yet still infects an estimated 10 million people every year.

In 2018, it killed around 1.5 million people, according to the World Health Organization, including more than 200,000 children.

Since effective medication exists, the world's TB response is centred on testing and treating as many patients as possible.

But as COVID-19 forces governments to place populations on lockdown, new disease models showed that social distancing could lead to a disastrous rebound in TB infections -- the effects of which are set to persist for years.

This is because social distancing will make it impossible for health care workers to test vulnerable populations and for patients to access ongoing treatments.

"In spite of having drugs and treatment... we are not yet close to ending it and TB remains the biggest infectious disease killer," said Lucica Ditiu, executive director of the Stop TB Partnership.

"COVID has hit us very hard. The more people we have not diagnosed and treated the more problems we will have in the coming years."

- Length of lockdown crucial -

Models developed in partnership with epidemiologists at Imperial College London used TB response data from three high-incidence countries: India, Kenya and Ukraine.

They showed that a two-month global lockdown and a rapid recovery in response programmes could lead to more than 1.8 additional TB infections globally over the next five years, and a predicted 340,000 deaths.

But if countries fail to quickly reimplement their testing and treatment, the models showed things would get much worse.

For example, a three-month lockdown followed by a 10-month "recovery" period could lead to an additional six million infections and 1.4 million TB deaths by 2025.

"TB is actually curable with affordable drugs. So a lot of control efforts in recent decades have really been focused in diagnosing cases as quickly as possible," said Nimalan Arinaminpathy, associate professor in mathematical epidemiology at Imperial.

"Lockdowns and other measures against coronavirus are affecting these systems for managing tuberculosis. In fact (in the models) it takes several years for this elevated TB burden to come down to pre-lockdown levels."

- 'Dire situation' -

The research did not look at the comorbidity between TB, an acute lung infection that leaves even survivors' lungs compromised, and COVID-19, a viral infection that often leads to lung problems.

Cheri Vincent, head of TB division at USAID, said several studies were looking into how TB puts an individual at higher risk of getting sick with COVID-19.

"As that information becomes available we may be looking at a much more dire situation," she said.

Suvunand Sahu, deputy executive director of Stop TB Partnership, said there was significant concern over the millions of people living with the infection as COVID-19 spreads.

"We know that TB does create damage in the lungs, so when your lung capacity is limited adverse outcomes of COVID would naturally be expected to be higher," he said.
 
COVID-19 lockdown risks 1.4 mn extra TB deaths: study

The global lockdown caused by COVID-19 risks a "devastating" surge in tuberculosis cases, with nearly 1.4 million additional deaths from the world's biggest infectious killer by 2025, new research showed Wednesday.

TB, a bacterial infection that normally attacks patients' lungs, is largely treatable yet still infects an estimated 10 million people every year.

In 2018, it killed around 1.5 million people, according to the World Health Organization, including more than 200,000 children.

Since effective medication exists, the world's TB response is centred on testing and treating as many patients as possible.

But as COVID-19 forces governments to place populations on lockdown, new disease models showed that social distancing could lead to a disastrous rebound in TB infections -- the effects of which are set to persist for years.

This is because social distancing will make it impossible for health care workers to test vulnerable populations and for patients to access ongoing treatments.

"In spite of having drugs and treatment... we are not yet close to ending it and TB remains the biggest infectious disease killer," said Lucica Ditiu, executive director of the Stop TB Partnership.

"COVID has hit us very hard. The more people we have not diagnosed and treated the more problems we will have in the coming years."

- Length of lockdown crucial -

Models developed in partnership with epidemiologists at Imperial College London used TB response data from three high-incidence countries: India, Kenya and Ukraine.

They showed that a two-month global lockdown and a rapid recovery in response programmes could lead to more than 1.8 additional TB infections globally over the next five years, and a predicted 340,000 deaths.

But if countries fail to quickly reimplement their testing and treatment, the models showed things would get much worse.

For example, a three-month lockdown followed by a 10-month "recovery" period could lead to an additional six million infections and 1.4 million TB deaths by 2025.

"TB is actually curable with affordable drugs. So a lot of control efforts in recent decades have really been focused in diagnosing cases as quickly as possible," said Nimalan Arinaminpathy, associate professor in mathematical epidemiology at Imperial.

"Lockdowns and other measures against coronavirus are affecting these systems for managing tuberculosis. In fact (in the models) it takes several years for this elevated TB burden to come down to pre-lockdown levels."

- 'Dire situation' -

The research did not look at the comorbidity between TB, an acute lung infection that leaves even survivors' lungs compromised, and COVID-19, a viral infection that often leads to lung problems.

Cheri Vincent, head of TB division at USAID, said several studies were looking into how TB puts an individual at higher risk of getting sick with COVID-19.

"As that information becomes available we may be looking at a much more dire situation," she said.

Suvunand Sahu, deputy executive director of Stop TB Partnership, said there was significant concern over the millions of people living with the infection as COVID-19 spreads.

"We know that TB does create damage in the lungs, so when your lung capacity is limited adverse outcomes of COVID would naturally be expected to be higher," he said.

TIm, remember when you gave me **** for posting maybes and if or could be's? You and many many other seemingly sane people are buying into the opposite extreme of Covid fear and instead of it being how bad might Covid be it is now how bad might the cure be but either way it is a huge pile of, if, maybes and could be's. These people are guessing and going suppositions just as much as the Covid response did. I think everyone on both sides of this really needs a reality check. People on both sides of this are driving me batshit crazy.
 
TIm, remember when you gave me **** for posting maybes and if or could be's? You and many many other seemingly sane people are buying into the opposite extreme of Covid fear and instead of it being how bad might Covid be it is now how bad might the cure be but either way it is a huge pile of, if, maybes and could be's. These people are guessing and going suppositions just as much as the Covid response did. I think everyone on both sides of this really needs a reality check. People on both sides of this are driving me batshit crazy.

The answer lies in between.

There is NO question...none....the longer this lockdown goes, the greater the economic and life damage that will result. Doing nothing at all would have also been disastrous.

We've crossed the line. Open up, move forward, develop herd immunity.

These what if's I've posted are different. The what ifs around COVID are about an unknown built upon models for something we've never encountered before. And they were wrong.

These what if's about suicides, alcohol and drug addiction, heart attacks, diminishing health due to poverty, predictions of a worldwide famine, and potential increase in TB are based upon historical knowledge and patterns because we have dealt with each before and seen patterns that we know will repeat.

Therein lies the difference. My what-if's are predictions based upon history repeating itself. The what ifs for COVID have been based upon pure prediction based upon the utterly unknown.
 
The answer lies in between.

There is NO question...none....the longer this lockdown goes, the greater the economic and life damage that will result. Doing nothing at all would have also been disastrous.

We've crossed the line. Open up, move forward, develop herd immunity.

These what if's I've posted are different. The what ifs around COVID are about an unknown built upon models for something we've never encountered before. And they were wrong.

These what if's about suicides, alcohol and drug addiction, heart attacks, diminishing health due to poverty, predictions of a worldwide famine, and potential increase in TB are based upon historical knowledge and patterns because we have dealt with each before and seen patterns that we know will repeat.

Therein lies the difference. My what-if's are predictions based upon history repeating itself. The what ifs for COVID have been based upon pure prediction based upon the utterly unknown.

I agree the answer lies in between. I am not sure still how relevant your comparisons will end up being. While there are certainly casualties business wise from this I am seeing a healthy and optimistic response to plans to get Ohio open again. Restaurants are going to be packed to whatever capacity is allowed here on the 15th for outdoor seating and then the 21st for indoor. The only real problem the restaurants are having is a direct reaction to the stupid Democrats unemployment rule of paying more on unemployment than people were making working. People are turning down offers to return to work not because they are afraid but because they are fat and happy. It will be a rude awakening when the State makes them repay the money they received after they turned down a work opportunity. It might take awhile for the State to catch up but they will. Their is pent up demand and most are ready to get out there again. My business has gone up dramatically in the last week and a half. IF (your favorite word) this continues I don't see those predictions of yours coming true. In States without a plan or clear leadership we might see otherwise. Overall as you know I have faith that most people will work hard to get things back on track.
 
When reading these post it becomes clear of who is forced out of work and going down the tubes and those that haven't missed a check.
 
IF (your favorite word) this continues I don't see those predictions of yours coming true. In States without a plan or clear leadership we might see otherwise. Overall as you know I have faith that most people will work hard to get things back on track.

Sadly, they already are coming true man. Steeltime posted countless articles. An area of Tennessee has seen a sharp increase in suicides due to COVID (they investigated). The nation's largest suicide hotline has seen a surge in calls unlike any they have seen.

Greenville County coroner: Isolation during COVID-19 pandemic a factor in several suicides

Suicides of two health care workers hint at the Covid-19 mental health crisis to come

L.A. suicide hotline sees rise in coronavirus-related calls. Counselors feel the pain

Feeling the pressures of the pandemic: Suicide hotlines see 800 percent spike in calls

Suicide rate rises in Pima County, likely related to stress from COVID-19 pandemic

The topic of suicides and COVID now fills pages on internet search engines. Just have a look.

Even MSM crap sites like CNN and CBS are starting to talk about it: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-deaths-suicides-drugs-alcohol-pandemic-75000/

I could go on. The problem is one history shows repeats itself in desperate times like these. It's already happening.

The toll is going to be significant.
 
When reading these post it becomes clear of who is forced out of work and going down the tubes and those that haven't missed a check.

I got room and a couch for you or perhaps vice versa if we need it brother. I know you're hurting with that diner going down. I hope you can get that thing back up or get something similar going again one of these days.
 
Tim, I don't know if this is foul play or suicide, but did you hear about those healthcare workers jumping from/falling out of windows in Russia? It might have been something posted here, but pretty creepy nonetheless. I did read where Russia has one of the highest suicide rates in the world.

Apparently they're getting ravaged pretty hard right now from this thing. At least that's what I hear from our media.

And just an aside but I hate our media.
 
Tim, I don't know if this is foul play or suicide, but did you hear about those healthcare workers jumping from/falling out of windows in Russia? It might have been something posted here, but pretty creepy nonetheless. I did read where Russia has one of the highest suicide rates in the world.

Apparently they're getting ravaged pretty hard right now from this thing. At least that's what I hear from our media.

And just an aside but I hate our media.

Yeah I saw that. Almost looked like murder. Super suspicious stuff in those stories.
 
I agree the answer lies in between. I am not sure still how relevant your comparisons will end up being. While there are certainly casualties business wise from this I am seeing a healthy and optimistic response to plans to get Ohio open again. Restaurants are going to be packed to whatever capacity is allowed here on the 15th for outdoor seating and then the 21st for indoor. The only real problem the restaurants are having is a direct reaction to the stupid Democrats unemployment rule of paying more on unemployment than people were making working. People are turning down offers to return to work not because they are afraid but because they are fat and happy. It will be a rude awakening when the State makes them repay the money they received after they turned down a work opportunity. It might take awhile for the State to catch up but they will. Their is pent up demand and most are ready to get out there again. My business has gone up dramatically in the last week and a half. IF (your favorite word) this continues I don't see those predictions of yours coming true. In States without a plan or clear leadership we might see otherwise. Overall as you know I have faith that most people will work hard to get things back on track.

Sorry but you continue to live in a fantasyland. First of all they are asking restaurants to seat half the number of patrons or less, and stores to open at half or 25% capacity. Most restaurants have a 10-20% profit margin at best. You can't cut your revenue in half and survive. Second of all the media induced hysteria is going to keep a lot of people home regardless of whether they're allowed to go out or not. Third people are not going to start spending their money knowing if a few people get infected it's all gonna shut down again and maybe their job will be next.
 
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Did some Instacart orders today. Went to Aldi’s- they actually had people waiting outside. They were super strict about the person count. Inside, it was pretty crowded even with the social distancing and all that. Even with all these “restrictions” and all, people are pretty patient. I think grocery stores are gonna be just fine.
 
Sorry but you continue to live in a fantasyland. First of all they are asking restaurants to seat half the number of patrons or less, and stores to open at half or 25% capacity. Most restaurants have a 10-20% profit margin at best. You can't cut your revenue in half and survive. Second of all the media induced hysteria is going to keep a lot of people home regardless if whether they're allowed to go out or not. Third people are not going to start spending their money knowing if a few people get infected it's all gonna shut down again and maybe their job will be next.

Fantasyland? Well then you want them to not open at all? WIth your attitude we will never get open. No it will not keep a lot of people home and I can tell you that for absolute certain. You are in fantasyland if you think people are not going to go out at the first opportunity and those who don't are probably not much for contributors in the first place. DIne in being cut in half IF that is how it works out will still leave a large demand for carry out. Many establishments around here have survived quite well doing only carryout and will probably have grown that side of the business permanently.

I am so ******* sick of the doom and gloom posts coming from both ******* sides. You are right we will fail if people think like you are, or like those that want to hideaway forever. Jesus most people I know are ready for it to be over but are making do, with damn good attitudes about the whole thing. Both sides need to pull up their bigboy pants and stop bitching and start finding positive ways to contribute. Things are bad economically but they will get better if we work together and make it better. We will get through this by being good Americans and not letting fear get the best of us no matter which side that fear is coming from. People are out there already and they are helping others. It is what we do and we don't need the government to do it for us.
 
Fantasyland? Well then you want them to not open at all? WIth your attitude we will never get open. No it will not keep a lot of people home and I can tell you that for absolute certain. You are in fantasyland if you think people are not going to go out at the first opportunity and those who don't are probably not much for contributors in the first place. DIne in being cut in half IF that is how it works out will still leave a large demand for carry out. Many establishments around here have survived quite well doing only carryout and will probably have grown that side of the business permanently.

I am so ******* sick of the doom and gloom posts coming from both ******* sides. You are right we will fail if people think like you are, or like those that want to hideaway forever. Jesus most people I know are ready for it to be over but are making do, with damn good attitudes about the whole thing. Both sides need to pull up their bigboy pants and stop bitching and start finding positive ways to contribute. Things are bad economically but they will get better if we work together and make it better. We will get through this by being good Americans and not letting fear get the best of us no matter which side that fear is coming from. People are out there already and they are helping others. It is what we do and we don't need the government to do it for us.

In the end we will have to determine if putting the entire country on hold was the right decision or not. Nobody hopes more than me that you are right and I am wrong.

But if I'm right we better make damn sure we never allow the government to do this to us again. The nation will not survive.
 
In the end we will have to determine if putting the entire country on hold was the right decision or not. Nobody hopes more than me that you are right and I am wrong.

But if I'm right we better make damn sure we never allow the government to do this to us again. The nation will not survive.

Even if I am right we still need to learn lessons from this on both sides of the issue and economically.
 
Doing nothing at all would have also been disastrous. We've crossed the line. Open up, move forward, develop herd immunity.

What is the difference between having done nothing and opening up and developing herd immunity? What is “opening up”? Are we not opening up already?
 
What is the difference between having done nothing and opening up and developing herd immunity? What is “opening up”? Are we not opening up already?

Nope. How many people out of work? How many people are unemployed? How many miles do those free food banks go. No no we are not open. When I’m no longer get told by so **** how far to stand, what the **** to wear, where I can and can not go, we are not ******* open.
 
What is the difference between having done nothing and opening up and developing herd immunity?

Your ability to comprehend the simple is a disaster.

I was on board for "15 Days to Slow the Curve." THAT is the difference between doing NOTHING and opening up now to develop herd immunity.

We have eclipsed 15 days to slow the curve. We have blown past that into the abyss. Never ending lock down, some states saying until there is a vaccine.

What is “opening up”? Are we not opening up already?

Are you aware of degrees? Not temperature (I know this must be incredibly difficult to keep you on track). When you say "are we not opening up already" clearly you think cracking the door and peeking outside means opening up. Hell no, we are not opening up.

My idea of properly opening up is simple: Keep the at risk at home (the elderly, those with comorbidities). Let the rest of the population go back to their damned lives. Simple.

This virus isn't and never was going to kill millions. You've been edumacated on this till you've been bloodied.
 
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