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The Coronavirus thread

You don't think there is firm science behind vaccines?

What else wiped out Polio? There was an average of 30k-40k cases of polio in our country from 1945-1955. By 1963 there was 400.

1 in 7 deaths in the U.S. were caused by Tuberculosis in 1900. Anti-biotics and later vaccinations have that number down to 10,000 total CASES a year with only 100-200 or so dead. Worldwide TB kills 1.5 million people.

Measles used to infect EVERYONE. 3-4 million cases, 500 deaths, 1000 permanent brain damaged EACH YEAR. That number went down 80% by 1980. And eliminated (less than 500 cases) by 2000.

Mumps had 250,000 cases a year in the 1960's. We get a vaccine. That goes down to less than 500 by 2000-2005.

Whooping Cough had 200,000 cases per year in the 1920's and 1930's. Immunization in the 1950's and 1960's almost wiped that out too. Down to 7500 in the 1990's (although Whooping Cough is coming back).

I mean honestly.... do you think these diseases just went away on their own? Or do you just choose to ignore how relevant and damaging these diseases are on our children throughout history and even now in poor and third world countries?

Vaccine use is a SIGN of health progression. If you want to live like India and Sub-Saharan Africa and go back to pre-immunization move there and see what it's like to have a child paralyzed from Polio. Or die of Whooping Cough.

Look at the numbers. Talk to your grandparents about what Polio was like (they likely all knew a classmate that had polio). Ask them about tuberculosis. My grandmother barely survived TB as a child in the 1920's.

You guys just don't know or remember or are asking older Americans that are now dying off what life was like BEFORE vaccinations.

Vaccinations are one of the greatest inventions/discoveries in the HISTORY of mankind. It's not even up for debate.

i think specific to Covid, there are big differences. The big one is we don’t even have a vaccine now. If they do actually produce one and tests show that it actually works for nearly everybody, then that changes things a bit. What are the risks and side effects? Every vaccine just like any medication has some side effects.

Are potential side effects worth it? For killer diseases like polio or tuberculosis they are, but how about for Covid where your survival probability is over 99%

what if there’s a 2% chance of some bad side effect to combat a disease that only has a less than 1% chance of doing harm in the first place. It’s kind of like buying hurricane insurance in Iowa.
 
LOL. Do you have kids? Do you want to send them to a school unvaccinated with a bunch of other kids who aren't immune to polio, smallpox, diptheria, pertussis, meningitis and measles? Want to put your mom in a nursing home with a bunch of people who aren't immune to covid? If not sit down and be quiet.

Pediatricians are almost all saying to send kids to school even without a vaccine. The data is clear on it. That’s why is suspect they will start to move the goalposts on schools away from children and towards protecting teachers. They will make it sound like teaching is the equivalent of injecting yourself with the plague. Fact is, a Walmart worker is and has been at far more risk for months. Why aren’t Walmart workers dropping dead left and right? The are around hundreds of strangers every day in an enclosed area. They should be dropping like flies.

Elderly is a different issue completely. For them the risk is much higher.
 
I’m from SC also. Upstate near Greenville. It was 100 during my ride home from work.

I'm in Greenville as well. Thank God we're not in Columbia, LOL.
 
i think specific to Covid, there are big differences. The big one is we don’t even have a vaccine now. If they do actually produce one and tests show that it actually works for nearly everybody, then that changes things a bit. What are the risks and side effects? Every vaccine just like any medication has some side effects.

Are potential side effects worth it? For killer diseases like polio or tuberculosis they are, but how about for Covid where your survival probability is over 99%

what if there’s a 2% chance of some bad side effect to combat a disease that only has a less than 1% chance of doing harm in the first place. It’s kind of like buying hurricane insurance in Iowa.

That's why in order to sell the vaccine, they've got to sell the economic pain and force the country to feel that the vaccine is the only way to have a "free and open society" ever again.

I mean, it's at the level of battered wife and Stockholm Syndrome the longer this goes on.

Some are already saying they are OK with mandatory vaccine just to leave the house/House Arrest.

It's like living in the Twilight Zone. Think about that? Someone is saying that all of my Constitutional rights such as life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, commerce, and 1st Amendment rights to worship are now contingent upon allowing the government and Bill Gates to inject me with a vaccine that may or may not work.

And anyone who will not "bow the knee" is confined to House Arrest and the mercy of the charity of others.

That's a line in the sand.
 
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My son is in Pharmacy school in Columbia (USC). It’s always 5-6 degrees hotter there.

Yeah, I've lived there some too. Lots of concrete and asphalt and not much air circulation.
 
Pediatricians are almost all saying to send kids to school even without a vaccine. The data is clear on it. That’s why is suspect they will start to move the goalposts on schools away from children and towards protecting teachers. They will make it sound like teaching is the equivalent of injecting yourself with the plague. Fact is, a Walmart worker is and has been at far more risk for months. Why aren’t Walmart workers dropping dead left and right? The are around hundreds of strangers every day in an enclosed area. They should be dropping like flies.

Elderly is a different issue completely. For them the risk is much higher.
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Kids are at very low risk, I agree, As age (and frankly, obesity, diabetes, high blood -pressure etc.) increases, so do risks. There is really no mystery in why the 18-30 age group has so much more hospitalization and death than kids do. It's in large part because there is way more obesity and related health complications in this group than in children. So, if vaccines can keep kids from getting it and thus spreading it to people more at risk why wouldn't we want kids to get them?

Vaccines by their nature are some of the safest medical interventions in existence. Yes, like anything there are a few people who have serious adverse reactions. It's infinitesimal in the case of most vaccines. You now what else has some serious adverse reactions in a small percentage of people, including even death? Coronavirus. I'll take my chances with the vaccine.
 
Ten years ago the Rockefeller Foundation and Global Business Network envisioned the next pandemic and scenario model of a "Lock Step" model of coordination of world governments and businesses to impose strict, Top-Down solutions. Biometric IDs have been planned a long time which is what ID2020 and Gates' involvement with Digital ID and vaccines is all about.

What should concern us is that there is no plan for life to return to as it was once the virus fades. Leaders are not going to give up this level of power over our lives -- although I do credit Trump for resisting national mandates as certainly desired by Democrats and Rockeller R's.

Note the admiration for China. The one thing they missed was China not sealing off its borders and attacking the US in effect. Guess they figured BHO would still be at the helm of the Deep State.


http://www.nommeraadio.ee/meedia/pdf/RRS/Rockefeller Foundation.pdf

Snippets:

In 2012, the pandemic that the world had been anticipating for years finally hit. Unlike 2009’sH1N1, this new influenza strain—originating from wild geese—was extremely virulent and deadly. Even the most pandemic-prepared nations were quickly overwhelmed when the virus streaked around the world, infecting nearly 20 percent of the global population and killing 8 million in just seven months, the majority of them healthy young adults. The pandemic also had a deadly effect on economies: international mobility of both people and goods screeched to a halt, debilitating industries like tourism and breaking global supply chains. Even locally, normally bustling shops and office buildings sat empty for months, devoid of both employees and customers.

However, a few countries did fare better—China in particular. The Chinese government’s quick imposition and enforcement of mandatory quarantine for all citizens, as well
as its instant and near-hermetic sealing off of all borders, saved millions of lives, stopping the spread of the virus far earlier than in other countries and enabling a swifter postpandemic recovery.

China’s government was not the only one that took extreme measures to protect its citizens from risk and exposure. During the pandemic,national leaders around the world flexed their authority and imposed airtight rules and restrictions, from the mandatory wearing of face masks to body-temperature checks at the entries to communal spaces like train stations and supermarkets. Even after the pandemic faded, this more authoritarian control and oversight of citizens and their activities stuck and even intensified. In order to protect themselves from the spread of increasingly global problems—from pandemics and transnational terrorism to environmental crises and rising poverty—leaders around the world took a firmer grip on power.

At first, the notion of a more controlled world gained wide acceptance and approval. Citizens willingly gave up some of their sovereignty—and their privacy—to more paternalistic states in exchange for greater safety and stability. Citizens were more tolerant, and even eager, for top-down direction and oversight, and national leaders had more latitude to impose order in the ways they saw fit. In developed countries, this heightened oversight took many forms: biometric IDs for all citizens, for example, and tighter regulation of key industries whose stability was deemed vital to national interests. In many developed countries, enforced cooperation with a suite of new regulations and agreements slowly but steadily restored both order and, importantly, economic growth.

There is also a section "Technology in Lockstep:"

Technological innovation in “Lock Step” is largely driven by government and is focused on issues of national security and health and safety. Most technological improvements are created by and for developed countries, shaped by governments’ dual desire to control and to monitor their citizens. In states with poor governance, large-scale projects that fail to progress abound. Technology trends and applications we might see:

• Scanners using advanced functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) technology become the norm at airports and other public areas to detect abnormal behavior that may
indicate “antisocial intent.”
• In the aftermath of pandemic scares, smarter packaging for food and beverages is applied first by big companies and producers in a business-to-business
environment, and then adopted for individual products and consumers.
• New diagnostics are developed to detect communicable diseases. The application of health screening also changes; screening becomes a prerequisite for release from a
hospital or prison, successfully slowing the spread of many diseases.
• Tele-presence technologies respond to the demand for less expensive, lowerbandwidth, sophisticated communications systems for populations whose travel is restricted.
• Driven by protectionism and national security concerns, nations create their own independent, regionally defined IT networks, mimicking China’s firewalls. Governments have
varying degrees of success in policing internet traffic, but these efforts nevertheless fracture the “World Wide” Web.
 
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Pediatricians are almost all saying to send kids to school even without a vaccine. The data is clear on it. That’s why is suspect they will start to move the goalposts on schools away from children and towards protecting teachers. They will make it sound like teaching is the equivalent of injecting yourself with the plague. Fact is, a Walmart worker is and has been at far more risk for months. Why aren’t Walmart workers dropping dead left and right? The are around hundreds of strangers every day in an enclosed area. They should be dropping like flies.

Elderly is a different issue completely. For them the risk is much higher.

School delays are occurring because the media is pushing the narrative, causing young mothers to panic

This evening NBC ran a clip where a California teacher said she will update her will if she's forced back into the classroom.
 
School delays are occurring because the media is pushing the narrative, causing young mothers to panic

This evening NBC ran a clip where a California teacher said she will update her will if she's forced back into the classroom.

It's ridiculous and absurd the amount of non stop 24/7 hysteria, doom and gloom run on tv. They're loving this ****.

Just wait until we get closer to the election.
 
Death rates have flattened in the US and the US is country of 330 million people. You don't understand Americans. Unlike your frame, we have never believed the government is a benevolent Shepherd. We believe as George Washington said that "government is a dangerous servant, and a fearful master."

Nothing we have seen in 2020 contradicts that. The governments have destroyed the economy and way of life way more than a virus.

Everything in 2020 reaffirms Washington and the rest of the founders. So much knowledge and wisdom then. What happened to it? Maybe God is saying our time is up here. We had our shot and blew it.
 
Everything in 2020 reaffirms Washington and the rest of the founders. So much knowledge and wisdom then. What happened to it? Maybe God is saying our time is up here. We had our shot and blew it.

Sadly, I agree. They/"the kings set over us" have "dominion over our bodies...and we are in great distress" to borrow from Nehemiah Chapter 9. I'm shocked at the willingness of many to give the government that dominion and house arrest people not taking a vaccine or breathing C02. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The writing seems to be on the wall. People don't want to saddle up and move forward, they want collectivist control over even the air we breathe or in exercising First Amendment rights to peaceably assemble or worship in the name of collective safety and reassurance with dubious scientific underpinning.

We need a "Great Awakening" on two fronts: Spiritually with a return to Christ and bedrock values, and the individual and small business owner defying the diktats and asserting their unalienable and self-evident rights as We the People and not subjects.

But as you suggest, it may already be over.
 
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Are you OK with a mandatory vaccine in order to live and conduct commerce? That may very likely be the condition for life going on and returning to some semblance of normal.

If you can be made to wear a mask, you can be made to take a vaccine to enter the same store of business or to travel. Not hard to see the slippery slope and precedent being set with mass acceptance and applied virtue to something without a firm scientific basis.

In fact, what's the effective rate of vaccine -- 30-40% off the top of my head if even that every year with all the strains. Can a mask even be proven to have the same efficacy rate scientifically? Not yet, but the lemmings are latching on to it as settled, Reassurance Ritual science.

Yes I would support mandatory vaccines when they are finished with testing. The flu vaccine is not as effective as others but if it reduces cases by 30 to 40 % that is still huge. If Everyone got it that number would be much bigger. Nothing is perfect again I go back to the science of vaccines and that is the more people who get them the more effective they are and better prtoect those that can't get them.
 
Sadly, I agree. They/"the kings set over us" have "dominion over our bodies...and we are in great distress" to borrow from Nehemiah Chapter 9. I'm shocked at the willingness of many to give the government that dominion and house arrest people not taking a vaccine or breathing C02. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The writing seems to be on the wall. People don't want to saddle up and move forward, they want collectivist control over even the air we breathe or in exercising First Amendment rights to peaceably assemble or worship in the name of collective safety and reassurance with dubious scientific underpinning.

We need a "Great Awakening" on two fronts: Spiritually with a return to Christ and bedrock values, and the individual and small business owner defying the diktats and asserting their unalienable and self-evident rights as We the People and not subjects.

But as you suggest, it may already be over.

I think Christ would tell you Vaccines are a gift from God sent through science and get your damn vaccines to protect the less fortunate who can't be. That is a Christian attitude.
 
I think Christ would tell you Vaccines are a gift from God sent through science and get your damn vaccines to protect the less fortunate who can't be. That is a Christian attitude.

You're willing to violate the tenet of free will and consent to impose that/your view of morality on the rest of the world.

Something not even Christ himself did trying to vaccinate and cure anyone from the deadliest and 100% fatal virus of them all -- Original Sin.

Your attitude about making it mandatory is no different than the worst ecclesiastical abuses by religious authorities through the ages. You're willing to force your views on the rest of Americans at the barrel of a gun in the name of safety and conformity to dogma.

Calling on Christ at least is 100% effective and done out of one's free will. He stands at the door and "knocks" -- giving you the free will choice to open and sup with him, or not.

He doesn't stand at the door and say he'll huff and puff, and blow your house and life down if you don't comply.

Your view on this is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
 
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Everything in 2020 reaffirms Washington and the rest of the founders. So much knowledge and wisdom then. What happened to it? Maybe God is saying our time is up here. We had our shot and blew it.

While it kind of seems like that, I think it's just simply communism infecting yet another victim state. While founded on perhaps the most brilliant ideals of government & communal values in human history, the United States is not immune to the scourge of communism. Not when they've been planting the seeds of their doctrine for decades. It's already infiltrated the very fabric of our society and it's killing us now. When I saw that The Speaker of the House of the United States of America called DHS agents "stormtroopers" yesterday, who said they detained a 'peaceful protester for graffiti' (the guy had on all black, a helmet, mask, gloves and backpack with God knows what in it) in Portland, OR after 50 days of violent rioting, looting & burning their own city down—and without any excessive use of force, I knew that there's no turning that party or their many cohorts back.

“Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?” “A Republic, if you can keep it.”

— Benjamin Franklin

China is starting a second Holocaust on this planet. Iran, N. Korea and other totalitarian regimes are committing atrocities to human beings that just seem unthinkable. Maybe God is saying everybody's time is essentially up here.

If Trump can't get out of his own way and just laser focus on the message that we cannot turn this country into a communist hellhole, we ARE doomed. And then it's eventually either complete compliance or you're on your own IMO.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is powerful.<br><br>Worth the watch.<br> <a href="https://t.co/3YrR2YXxqD">pic.twitter.com/3YrR2YXxqD</a></p>— Benny (@bennyjohnson) <a href="https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1282357036714528768?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 12, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
While it kind of seems like that, I think it's just simply communism infecting yet another victim state. While founded on perhaps the most brilliant ideals of government & communal values in human history, the United States is not immune to the scourge of communism. Not when they've been planting the seeds of their doctrine for decades. It's already infiltrated the very fabric of our society and it's killing us now. When I saw that The Speaker of the House of the United States of America called DHS agents "stormtroopers" yesterday, who said they detained a 'peaceful protester for graffiti' (the guy had on all black, a helmet, mask, gloves and backpack with God knows what in it) in Portland, OR after 50 days of violent rioting, looting & burning their own city down—and without any excessive use of force, I knew that there's no turning that party or their many cohorts back.

“Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?” “A Republic, if you can keep it.”

— Benjamin Franklin

China is starting a second Holocaust on this planet. Iran, N. Korea and other totalitarian regimes are committing atrocities to human beings that just seem unthinkable. Maybe God is saying everybody's time is essentially up here.

If Trump can't get out of his own way and just laser focus on the message that we cannot turn this country into a communist hellhole, we ARE doomed. And then it's eventually either complete compliance or you're on your own IMO.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is powerful.<br><br>Worth the watch.<br> <a href="https://t.co/3YrR2YXxqD">pic.twitter.com/3YrR2YXxqD</a></p>— Benny (@bennyjohnson) <a href="https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1282357036714528768?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 12, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Is China doing it with help, R&D, and control measures from Big Tech? If so, what is planned for us?

https://digitalcommons.law.scu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3104&context=historical
 
Yes I would support mandatory vaccines when they are finished with testing. The flu vaccine is not as effective as others but if it reduces cases by 30 to 40 % that is still huge. If Everyone got it that number would be much bigger. Nothing is perfect again I go back to the science of vaccines and that is the more people who get them the more effective they are and better prtoect those that can't get them.

So in effect you are OK with the government forcing you to do things so long as they can quote a public health concern. What happened to hands off my body?

Imagine when they declare climate change a public health concern. Now you must
install a thermostat that the power company controls
Pay to remove your oil furnace and switch to gas, no a wind turbine, no i mean solar panels. You must comply or be fined into oblivion
Must buy a hybrid car. Gas cars are now illegal, you know for the public good
 
Maybe God is saying everybody's time is essentially up here.


Our country cannot survive without at least the basic tenets of religion, where everyone knows right from wrong. The left has been eroding common values for decades, to the point where there aren't enough police in the world to save our society. I'm not saving we all need to be overly religious, but to at least value one another as human beings.
 
While it kind of seems like that, I think it's just simply communism infecting yet another victim state. While founded on perhaps the most brilliant ideals of government & communal values in human history, the United States is not immune to the scourge of communism. Not when they've been planting the seeds of their doctrine for decades. It's already infiltrated the very fabric of our society and it's killing us now. When I saw that The Speaker of the House of the United States of America called DHS agents "stormtroopers" yesterday, who said they detained a 'peaceful protester for graffiti' (the guy had on all black, a helmet, mask, gloves and backpack with God knows what in it) in Portland, OR after 50 days of violent rioting, looting & burning their own city down—and without any excessive use of force, I knew that there's no turning that party or their many cohorts back.

“Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?” “A Republic, if you can keep it.”

— Benjamin Franklin

China is starting a second Holocaust on this planet. Iran, N. Korea and other totalitarian regimes are committing atrocities to human beings that just seem unthinkable. Maybe God is saying everybody's time is essentially up here.

If Trump can't get out of his own way and just laser focus on the message that we cannot turn this country into a communist hellhole, we ARE doomed. And then it's eventually either complete compliance or you're on your own IMO.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is powerful.<br><br>Worth the watch.<br> <a href="https://t.co/3YrR2YXxqD">pic.twitter.com/3YrR2YXxqD</a></p>— Benny (@bennyjohnson) <a href="https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1282357036714528768?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 12, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

We used to be hard against communism here. Very small fringe groups of them. Now they are all over and a great deal of our youth is a ok with them.

Entire local and state governments are coddling it. And another 10 years of schools pumping out commie kids and they'll be running government entirely.
 
So in effect you are OK with the government forcing you to do things so long as they can quote a public health concern. What happened to hands off my body?

Imagine when they declare climate change a public health concern. Now you must
install a thermostat that the power company controls
Pay to remove your oil furnace and switch to gas, no a wind turbine, no i mean solar panels. You must comply or be fined into oblivion
Must buy a hybrid car. Gas cars are now illegal, you know for the public good

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

-- Benjamin Franklin

I'm all over the Benjamin Franklin quotes today, but seems appropriate.
 
So in effect you are OK with the government forcing you to do things so long as they can quote a public health concern. What happened to hands off my body?

Imagine when they declare climate change a public health concern. Now you must
install a thermostat that the power company controls
Pay to remove your oil furnace and switch to gas, no a wind turbine, no i mean solar panels. You must comply or be fined into oblivion
Must buy a hybrid car. Gas cars are now illegal, you know for the public good

I don't get it. I don't think the Communists/Soviets ever gave everyone a vaccine as a condition to leave their homes, did they? I don't think even the Communists ever initiated mass House Arrest as they needed the slave labor in the fields and factories at least. I'm shocked that any American with a basic knowledge of the 4th Amendment right to be secure in our persons would go in on that idea. It's not even a slippery slope, it's a step into the abyss.

Maybe the first advanced vocabulary word students should learn is "unalienable."

Because nobody seems to know what that means these days unless it's toppling statues.
 
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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

-- Benjamin Franklin

I'm all over the Benjamin Franklin quotes today, but seems appropriate.

Keep 'em coming.
 
Our country cannot survive without at least the basic tenets of religion, where everyone knows right from wrong. The left has been eroding common values for decades, to the point where there aren't enough police in the world to save our society. I'm not saving we all need to be overly religious, but to at least value one another as human beings.

There's an all-out assault on religious values and Christianity especially (peaceful protesters my ***):

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Antifa rioters in Portland knock the street preacher unconscious and move him elsewhere after he wouldn’t leave the public demonstration. Video by <a href="https://twitter.com/FromKalen?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@FromKalen</a>: <a href="https://t.co/bkpCmVryR4">pic.twitter.com/bkpCmVryR4</a></p>— Andy Ngô (@MrAndyNgo) <a href="https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1284436712320569344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 18, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Breaking: Firefighters say the fire at Nantes Cathedral in France is contained. The organ of the cathedral is destroyed, but the roof is intact. Ouest France reports that arson is not being ruled out as fires started in multiple areas of the structure. <a href="https://t.co/GWJSyY86JQ">pic.twitter.com/GWJSyY86JQ</a></p>— PM Breaking News (@PMBreakingNews) <a href="https://twitter.com/PMBreakingNews/status/1284407323797016576?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 18, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Cathedral in the U.S. below (not sure where exactly)

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Keep the faith. It’s not over. <a href="https://t.co/ELI92m9unc">pic.twitter.com/ELI92m9unc</a></p>— 🏛Gothic & Architecture (@Architectolder) <a href="https://twitter.com/Architectolder/status/1283748417710239744?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 16, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
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