Covid Vaccine

[Tim Steelersfan]

“74% of Covid was spread at home, the safest places we could be were out”

You can’t be that obtuse. How did it get into people’s homes, Tim?

The New York Times provided this data in the largest contact tracing study done in 2020. Much has been written about it since.

1.4% of Covid was caught in restaurants as an example. Over 74% at home. Less than 1% caught in restaurants. Go educate yourself.

What New York's Contact Tracing Data Show

"Living room spread" is a major cause of COVID.

spectrumlocalnews.com

Your hero Andrew Cuomo came out last year and stated that 66% of COVID positive patients came from people sheltered at home, who never left their homes.

New Survey: 66% of New Hospitalizations Statewide Are People Staying Home

3% of new cases in NYC had been using public transportation.

www.ny1.com

Obtuse is forgetting as much data you do that has previously been presented to you.

Studies since have shown you are safer at a Walmart or a corporate office building because they have better HVAC systems which move air in and out more rapidly.

There's lots to learn Floggy, if you'd just research.

 

[Superman]

paperz plz

 

[Superman]

What I wrote is the truth, as much as it hurts to be confronted with it. Since you demanded I do so, I removed my comment.

what you wrote is your emotional response.
your emotional response is NOT the truth.
your emotional response is a confirmed bias.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Where have you seen that current vaccines are 100% ineffective against lambda?

OK not 100%. They don't know yet how ineffective, but it appears highly ineffective. I posted this Wednesday:

https://www.steelernation.com/forums/threads/covid-vaccine.36523/post-836351

Lambda variant of COVID 'shows vaccine resistance' - Insider Paper

According to Japanese researchers, the Lambda variant of the COVID-19 is more infectious and resistant to vaccines than the original version

insiderpaper.com

According to Japanese researchers, the Lambda variant of the COVID-19, which was first identified in Peru and is now spreading throughout South America, is more infectious and resistant to vaccines than the original version of the virus that emerged from Wuhan, China.

Although it is unclear whether this variant is more dangerous than the Delta strain that is currently threatening populations in many countries, senior researcher Kei Sato of the University of Tokyo believes that “Lambda can be a potential threat to human society.”

Lambda COVID variant, showing vaccine resistance, detected in Louisiana

The Lambda variant has shown resistance to a COVID vaccine in a study, which has not yet been peer-reviewed, carried out in Tokyo, Japan.

www.newsweek.com

Research by a team from the University of Tokyo, which has not yet been peer-reviewed, found that three mutations in Lambda's spike protein help it resist neutralization by vaccine-induced antibodies.

SARS-CoV-2 Lambda variant exhibits higher infectivity and immune resistance

SARS-CoV-2 Lambda, a new variant of interest, is now spreading in some South American countries; however, its virological features and evolutionary trait remain unknown. Here we reveal that the spike protein of the Lambda variant is more infectious and it is attributed to the T76I and L452Q...

www.biorxiv.org

Lambda Variant Could Be Vaccine Resistant, Study Finds

A new study found that the Lambda variant is highly transmissible and may evade antibodies.

www.verywellhealth.com

“We're seeing a trend, which is what all of us in the scientific community expected, that the longer [COVID-19] is allowed to prevail, we're going to start getting towards vaccines that may not be efficacious against this SARS-CoV-2 viral variant,” Quigley says.

 

[oneforthebus]

OK I'll counter this in the spirit of correcting misinformation. Or should I say, spin. I don't dispute what they say. What they say, what they omit, and how they say what they say should be analyzed. This article is a misrepresentation of the overall data. I am using the data from Israel's Ministry of Health dashboard.

You can go download the data here: https://datadashboard.health.gov.il/COVID-19/general?utm_source=go.gov.il&utm_medium=referral

View attachment 5988

Click on the download arrow, open it in a spreadsheet. It's all in Hebrew. Took me 10 minutes to use Google translate. Easy. It's now in a sortable sheet.

Under 60 Population:
The article is cherry picking data. For example, it says "For those under the age of 60, the rate of severe illness among the unvaccinated stood at 1.4 cases per 100,000 people – 2.8 times more than the 0.5 per 100,000 among those who received two doses of the vaccine."

That's true. What the article omits is the rate that these figures have grown from July 11 to today:

View attachment 5990

The article talks about a moment in time for one segment of the population - "under 60." Why didn't they analyze all of the groups? For this population, they haveen't analyzed the rate at which the serious illnesses are growing. July 11 to August 9, the absolute cases for unvaccinated grew by 500%, partially vaccinated barely moved, but the # of severely ill fully vaccinated grew by 850%. However, the rate "per 100K" bodes very well for the vaccinated.

Let's keep going.

General Population (includes the elderly and those under 60):
A bit of a different story here when you look at ALL of Israel.

View attachment 5989

The unvaccinated severely ill grew by 565%, partially vaccinated grew by 800%, and the vaccinated grew by 759%.

But look at the rates per 100K now in the ENTIRE population: Unvaccinated 3.8 per 100K, Partially Vaccinated 4.1 per 100K, and Fully Vaccinated 4.1 per 100K.

When you look at the entire population, TODAY, the rate of seriously ill people is GREATER among the vaccinated populations than it is for the unvaccinated.

Over 60 Population:

This data shows the vaccines are very effective for the over 60 crowd. Zero question.

View attachment 5991

The unvaccinated seriously ill grew 608%, the partially vaccinated grew 600%, the vaccinated grew 752%.

It all depends on how you look at the data and that article looked at it myopically. In the GENERAL POPULATION, the rate of serious illness per 100K is currently, TODAY, worse for the partially and fully vaccinated.

Not sure how you can spin that unless you do what this article did.

Clearly the vaccine is working wonders for the elderly. But for the general population, the argument is much different.

I've posted state after state of data that you're just ignoring, but hey let's just stick with Israel.

The elderly are most at risk of serious illness to begin with. They're also the most likely to be vaccinated. A whole swath of the general Israeli population-children-is unvaccinated. That whole swath is far less likely to get seriously ill regardless of vaccination status. The data is not cherry picked, it's representative of who generally gets seriously ill with covid. You would expect a much, much smaller rate of serious illness in a cohort when you include children and young people. Instead the rate of serious illness is virtually identical to the vaccinated population which is much older and therefore should be more at risk of serious illness.

So yes, statistics can be twisted to say whatever you want them to say.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

You don't want to know. Likely InfoWars & Alex Jones, some crap like that.

Once a tool, always a tool.

https://www.steelernation.com/forums/threads/covid-vaccine.36523/post-837891. <---read Tiblio.

Every source I provided drops you to doctors, researchers and studies. Published studies. From around the globe.

Just some "crap" which is scientific.

 

[oneforthebus]

I'll post it again. This is exactly what she said. The clip is still out there on CNN. Now you can try to argue you she misspoke, but this is WHAT she stated.

Rochelle Walensky - “Our vaccines are working exceptionally well. They continue to work well for Delta, with regard to severe illness and death – they prevent it. But what they can’t do anymore is prevent transmission.”

Fully vaccinated people who get a Covid-19 breakthrough infection can transmit the virus, US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said Thursday.
"Our vaccines are working exceptionally well," Walensky told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. "They continue to work well for Delta, with regard to severe illness and death -- they prevent it. But what they can't do anymore is prevent transmission."

I can't find a video or a direct quote of her actually saying the first sentence, so not sure if it's accurate or not. The data shows that vaccinated people are less likely to get infected and less likely to spread. There's no US data showing similar rates of transmission in vaccinated and unvaccinated people that I have seen.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I've posted state after state of data that you're just ignoring, but hey let's just stick with Israel.

I'm not ignoring the state by state data. I'm waiting to see on these states. They aren't in a state like Israel, which in my opinion, is a perfect case study for a nearly fully vaccinated population, using the vaccines we have used, which is also going through a rapid rise in Delta variant.

You posted Maryland. I live in MD. Cases are up by 50% and only up by 12 per 100K. We haven't been hit hard by Delta variant yet. I don't think that is a good compare to Israel, do you? They are different control groups. Is it good news what is happening in MD? Yep. Will it stay that way? I don't know.

The elderly are most at risk of serious illness to begin with. They're also the most likely to be vaccinated. A whole swath of the general Israeli population-children-is unvaccinated. That whole swath is far less likely to get seriously ill regardless of vaccination status. The data is not cherry picked, it's representative of who generally gets seriously ill with covid. You would expect a much, much smaller rate of serious illness in a cohort when you include children and young people. Instead the rate of serious illness is virtually identical to the vaccinated population which is much older and therefore should be more at risk of serious illness.

So yes, statistics can be twisted to say whatever you want them to say.

You should go back and notice that I agreed vaccinating the elderly is wise. It's working for that population. For those under 60, those results say something different.

There is literally a higher rate per 100K in the vaccinated than the unvaccinated. And it is my understanding that when the Israel Health Ministry is calculating the per 100K rate, they are doing so against the population based on vaccination status - i.e., "per 100K of partially vaccinated, the rate is" or "per 100K of fully vaccinated" the rate is.

I'd be happy to be corrected on this.

Regardless, for the genpop the rate per 100K is worse today for those vaccinated.

Again, for the millionth time, the vaccines are helping. I'm merely calling them out for what I see and that is they are less effective than we all hoped.

I'm just praying for Novavax to be available soon. You'll see a higher uptick in vaccinations.

 

[oneforthebus]

Again:

Who was more likely to contract the virus, as per study? | The Times of India

According to the study, high prevalence of infection was found in younger generations between the age of 13 to 24 as compared to people who were 75 above.Unvaccinated individuals continue to remain more prone to COVID infection and are more likely to be spreaders.Read more: oronavirus vaccine...

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

While possible, according to a research conducted by researchers at Imperial College London, it was found that those who have received both rounds of a coronavirus vaccine are half as likely to be infected with the virus than those who are unvaccinated.
The research was based on the swab tests taken by nearly 98,233 people at home and their samples were evaluated by PCR testing between June 24 and July 12. As per the data, 527 had tested positive and 254 swab tests were successfully analysed in the lab to determine their origins, 100 percent of which were Delta variants, as per report.
It was found that people who had received both the jabs were less likely to develop a serious infection and spread it to others, given that the viral load was much lower than in unvaccinated individuals.
That said, if a fully vaccinated person is exposed to the virus, the chances of him or her catching the infection is one in 26, whereas for unvaccinated people, it would be one in 13, as per study.

 

[oneforthebus]

OK not 100%. They don't know yet how ineffective, but it appears highly ineffective. I posted this Wednesday:

https://www.steelernation.com/forums/threads/covid-vaccine.36523/post-836351

Lambda variant of COVID 'shows vaccine resistance' - Insider Paper

According to Japanese researchers, the Lambda variant of the COVID-19 is more infectious and resistant to vaccines than the original version

insiderpaper.com

According to Japanese researchers, the Lambda variant of the COVID-19, which was first identified in Peru and is now spreading throughout South America, is more infectious and resistant to vaccines than the original version of the virus that emerged from Wuhan, China.

Although it is unclear whether this variant is more dangerous than the Delta strain that is currently threatening populations in many countries, senior researcher Kei Sato of the University of Tokyo believes that “Lambda can be a potential threat to human society.”

Lambda COVID variant, showing vaccine resistance, detected in Louisiana

The Lambda variant has shown resistance to a COVID vaccine in a study, which has not yet been peer-reviewed, carried out in Tokyo, Japan.

www.newsweek.com

Research by a team from the University of Tokyo, which has not yet been peer-reviewed, found that three mutations in Lambda's spike protein help it resist neutralization by vaccine-induced antibodies.

SARS-CoV-2 Lambda variant exhibits higher infectivity and immune resistance

SARS-CoV-2 Lambda, a new variant of interest, is now spreading in some South American countries; however, its virological features and evolutionary trait remain unknown. Here we reveal that the spike protein of the Lambda variant is more infectious and it is attributed to the T76I and L452Q...

www.biorxiv.org

Lambda Variant Could Be Vaccine Resistant, Study Finds

A new study found that the Lambda variant is highly transmissible and may evade antibodies.

www.verywellhealth.com

“We're seeing a trend, which is what all of us in the scientific community expected, that the longer [COVID-19] is allowed to prevail, we're going to start getting towards vaccines that may not be efficacious against this SARS-CoV-2 viral variant,” Quigley says.

"Shows resistance to" isn't anywhere near "100% ineffective against". From what I just read this is only a variant of interest, not of concern, because it's been around awhile and hasn't spread nearly as fast as delta. Who knows why.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Fully vaccinated people who get a Covid-19 breakthrough infection can transmit the virus, US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said Thursday.
"Our vaccines are working exceptionally well," Walensky told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. "They continue to work well for Delta, with regard to severe illness and death -- they prevent it. But what they can't do anymore is prevent transmission."

I can't find a video or a direct quote of her actually saying the first sentence, so not sure if it's accurate or not. The data shows that vaccinated people are less likely to get infected and less likely to spread. There's no US data showing similar rates of transmission in vaccinated and unvaccinated people that I have seen.

I posted the video last week. It was her talking to Wolf Blitzer. I watched it, personally, and I literally transcribed her words verbatim under the video.

Since then, the video has been removed from YouTube. And it's being white washed in the press.

Seems the powers that be feel she stepped out of line making those comments and they are trying to walk it back? I don't know. But it was said, exactly as I have pasted it countless times, word for word.

They are now trying to say this was for breakthrough cases only. That's not what she explicitly said. But again, the best dashboard I know of in the world with deep data is Israel. If breakthrough cases are so rare, then why this:



I broke this data down last week, don't feel the need to do so again. Visibly you can see. This is broken down by age group. The dark and light green bars, added together, reflect the vaccinated population (partially and full). Add those two green lines together for each age group. I believe it showed last week that in every age category, there were more infections among the vaccinated than the unvaccinated save for 1 or 2 age groups.

What I'm afraid of is, if this delta variant continues to spread from the central South East throughout the country, these statements about "breakthrough transmissions" are going to continue to be walked back.

Walensky let on to this. The MA study intimated this.

Israel is ahead of us and more vaccinated than us, and they have a problem with the vaccinated being infected.

I HOPE this doesn't happen here.

 

[oneforthebus]

I'm not ignoring the state by state data. I'm waiting to see on these states. They aren't in a state like Israel, which in my opinion, is a perfect case study for a nearly fully vaccinated population, using the vaccines we have used, which is also going through a rapid rise in Delta variant.

You posted Maryland. I live in MD. Cases are up by 50% and only up by 12 per 100K. We haven't been hit hard by Delta variant yet. I don't think that is a good compare to Israel, do you? They are different control groups. Is it good news what is happening in MD? Yep. Will it stay that way? I don't know.



You should go back and notice that I agreed vaccinating the elderly is wise. It's working for that population. For those under 60, those results say something different.

There is literally a higher rate per 100K in the vaccinated than the unvaccinated. And it is my understanding that when the Israel Health Ministry is calculating the per 100K rate, they are doing so against the population based on vaccination status - i.e., "per 100K of partially vaccinated, the rate is" or "per 100K of fully vaccinated" the rate is.

I'd be happy to be corrected on this.

Regardless, for the genpop the rate per 100K is worse today for those vaccinated.

Again, for the millionth time, the vaccines are helping. I'm merely calling them out for what I see and that is they are less effective than we all hoped.

I'm just praying for Novavax to be available soon. You'll see a higher uptick in vaccinations.

Once again, your rate per 100,000 in the general population is not adjusted by age so it's virtually meaningless.

If I say the rate of Alzheimer's in the general population is lower in the unvaccinated than in the vaccinated, it's not because the vaccines make you more likely to get Alzheimers's. It's because there are overwhelmingly more old people in the vaccinated and Alzheimer's is much, much more common in old people.

Likewise, the vaccines don't make you more likely to get seriously ill with covid. The fact that you're old makes it more likely to get seriously ill with covid, and the vaccinated population is much, much older than the unvaccinated one.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Again:

Who was more likely to contract the virus, as per study? | The Times of India

According to the study, high prevalence of infection was found in younger generations between the age of 13 to 24 as compared to people who were 75 above.Unvaccinated individuals continue to remain more prone to COVID infection and are more likely to be spreaders.Read more: oronavirus vaccine...

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

While possible, according to a research conducted by researchers at Imperial College London, it was found that those who have received both rounds of a coronavirus vaccine are half as likely to be infected with the virus than those who are unvaccinated.
The research was based on the swab tests taken by nearly 98,233 people at home and their samples were evaluated by PCR testing between June 24 and July 12. As per the data, 527 had tested positive and 254 swab tests were successfully analysed in the lab to determine their origins, 100 percent of which were Delta variants, as per report.
It was found that people who had received both the jabs were less likely to develop a serious infection and spread it to others, given that the viral load was much lower than in unvaccinated individuals.

The article also says this: "Unvaccinated individuals continue to remain more prone to COVID infection and are more likely to be spreaders."

I do not disagree. Let me repeat for the millionth time, the vaccines help.

What I am pointing out is that as time passes, the rates at which the vaccinated are becoming infected is increasing. Why is that not a cause for alarm for others?

That said, if a fully vaccinated person is exposed to the virus, the chances of him or her catching the infection is one in 26, whereas for unvaccinated people, it would be one in 13, as per study.

This is exactly what people on my side object to. Here, on this board, we are inundated with "breakthrough infections are rare" about 1%.

Yet this very study you posted showed the rate of reinfection in India for those vaccinated was 3.85%, compared to 7.69% for those unvaccinated.

The gap just keeps narrowing.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

"Shows resistance to" isn't anywhere near "100% ineffective against". From what I just read this is only a variant of interest, not of concern, because it's been around awhile and hasn't spread nearly as fast as delta. Who knows why.

Ummm....this statement, in the data I posted above...is pretty damned concerning: found that three mutations in Lambda's spike protein help it resist neutralization by vaccine-induced antibodies.

The data also said that Lambda is more infectious and more resistant. Given the spread of Delta in this time period where so many are vaccinated...if Lambda is MORE infectious and more resistant...well. Better hope those booster shots come rapidly.

If you read the data (not sure if you did), Lamba is in the USA, already found in Louisiana.

 

[oneforthebus]

The article also says this: "Unvaccinated individuals continue to remain more prone to COVID infection and are more likely to be spreaders."

I do not disagree. Let me repeat for the millionth time, the vaccines help.

What I am pointing out is that as time passes, the rates at which the vaccinated are becoming infected is increasing. Why is that not a cause for alarm for others?



This is exactly what people on my side object to. Here, on this board, we are inundated with "breakthrough infections are rare" about 1%.

Yet this very study you posted showed the rate of reinfection in India for those vaccinated was 3.85%, compared to 7.69% for those unvaccinated.

The gap just keeps narrowing.

Yeah, no one's denying that. The vaccines are less effective against spread of delta than we hoped.

They are not ineffective against the spread. They are still very effective against serious illness and death.

That could wane over time. That's not exactly news. Too bad more people didn't get vaxxed sooner, transmission might have been greatly reduced and and we might not have had to ever find that out.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Likewise, the vaccines don't make you more likely to get seriously ill with covid.

Nowhere have I said the vaccines make you more likely to get seriously ill.

It is alarming that the world over, the RATE at which the vaccinated are getting COVID and getting seriously ill from it appears to be growing in areas.

Get the vaxes people. If you choose.

They just aren't as effective as we all hoped they would be.

 

[Confluence]

Not speaking for Tim, since he can do that, himself, but it seems he's only pointing out the blatant hypocrisy in all of it.

Gov't wants you to get vaxxed. fine.
But the gov't then says that the vax isnt as magical as they thought.
but get vaxxed.
why? its not as magical as they were led to believe. its not as magical as they want us to believe.
in fact, it's showing that the vax is contributing to stronger cases of mutations of the virus.

if they had called it a shot and not a vax, it might have been better. we get a flu shot. we know that shot is not going to last the rest of our lives. yet they still call this a vaccine. vaccines last the duration of your lifetime.

yet get the vax. it might help. it might not. but, regardless, we're going to find a way to force you to do so. even if we don't do the same - that's how the gov't is working on this. this has created a social stigma to those who are or are not vaxxed. follow the changing science, except when it doesnt flow to your bias.

its a shot, not a vaccine. call it as such.

That would be a flu-like shot

 

[oneforthebus]

Ummm....this statement, in the data I posted above...is pretty damned concerning: found that three mutations in Lambda's spike protein help it resist neutralization by vaccine-induced antibodies.

The data also said that Lambda is more infectious and more resistant. Given the spread of Delta in this time period where so many are vaccinated...if Lambda is MORE infectious and more resistant...well. Better hope those booster shots come rapidly.

If you read the data (not sure if you did), Lamba is in the USA, already found in Louisiana.

Yes and has been around for awhile and not spreading nearly as fast as delta. Who knows?

Again, "help it resist neutralization" doesn't mean "make it completely vaccine resistant".

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Yeah, no one's denying that. The vaccines are less effective against spread of delta than we hoped.

They are not ineffective against the spread. They are still very effective against serious illness and death.

That could wane over time. That's not exactly news. Too bad more people didn't get vaxxed sooner, transmission might have been greatly reduced and and we might not have had to ever find that out.

Too bad all of this was politicized and we didn't have traditionally developed vaccines.

To me, those two issues alone have prevented further uptake.

 

[oneforthebus]

Too bad all of this was politicized and we didn't have traditionally developed vaccines.

To me, those two issues alone have prevented further uptake.

Traditionally developed vaccines that show up after millions get hospitalized and die > quickly but responsibly developed vaccines based on decades old technology that are currently saving lives every day. Gotcha.

 

[Superman]

Traditionally developed vaccines that show up after millions get hospitalized and die > quickly but responsibly developed vaccines based on decades old technology that are currently saving lives every day. Gotcha.

isnt that kinda sorta exactly like what we are seeing now?

 

[oneforthebus]

isnt that kinda sorta exactly like what we are seeing now?

Yeah, for the most part in the unvaccinated.

 

[Confluence]

JFC! The flu “shot” IS a vaccine. It’s also far less effective than the Covid “shot”.

Almost got one right Flogster.

The flu shot is called a vaccine, but vaccines don't work against certain viruses, and flus mutate, so it should probably be called the "flu best guess shot almost vaccine, but not really, except in the no liability to producers sense"......and yes, thus far the 14 different "Covid vaccines that shouldn't be called vaccines, except in the no liability for producers sense" suck less than the boring and only marginally profitable sorta flu shots, but......drum roll please.....the Wuhan flu will have years of mutations going forward to render the Covid shots as feckless as other flu shots.

Luckily, a hand full of pharma companies have billions and billions of your tax dollars to fight the good fight.....to get more of your tax dollars.....to enable them to get even more of your tax dollars....to fight the good fight.

You know, for the people.

 

[oneforthebus]

Yeah, those evil pharma companies, how dare they make money while also greatly reducing your chances of going to the hospital or dying.

 

[Steeltime]

you're marginally smarter than three certain posters here - the ones holding down the floor of the IQ

Ogre, Donkey and TSF were glad to learn you were not speaking of them.

While possible, according to a research conducted by researchers at Imperial College London, it was found that those who have received both rounds of a coronavirus vaccine are half as likely to be infected with the virus than those who are unvaccinated.

Vaccination reduces chance of infection by 50%. Agreed.

The government should tell us that. Instead, we get the same stupid old man wandering around in his pajamas, licking ice cream and children, and telling us to "get the vaccine to end the pandemic."

Which is a bald-faced lie that nobody seems to confront.