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Battery Technology Will Change Everything

I've been hearing about the perfect battery happening "just around the corner" for about 25 years.

It certainly would be a huge breakthrough for energy conservation and efficiency across ALL platforms of energy production (both fossil fuel and green energy), but I still think it's further away than people think.
 
This thread should remind Tibs to pick up some batteries on his way home, for his vibrating butt plug.
 
This thread should remind Tibs to pick up some batteries on his way home, for his vibrating butt plug.

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I've been hearing about the perfect battery happening "just around the corner" for about 25 years..

Yep. If I only had a dollar for every 'battery breakthrough' article I’ve seen the past 30 years.

There have been incremental improvements over the past 25 years but the true breakthroughs have been few and far between.
 
Toyota is producing a hydrogen car that is available in CA this year.

Does the hydrogen car use a battery and/or is the hydrogen car a better product for energy efficiency than an electric car? I've always thought so on the 2nd, but never actually researched it.
 
Nothing is for free. You still need energy to charge the battery. Once every one has a battery car you are going to need more power plants to fill the energy need. Guess what those power plants are going to run on.
 
Yep. If I only had a dollar for every 'battery breakthrough' article I’ve seen the past 30 years.

There have been incremental improvements over the past 25 years but the true breakthroughs have been few and far between.

Because the automakers buy the patents then squash them. /tinfoil hat

http://www.fireballroberts.com/Fish_Story.htm
 
Toyota is producing a hydrogen car that is available in CA this year.

Does the hydrogen car use a battery and/or is the hydrogen car a better product for energy efficiency than an electric car? I've always thought so on the 2nd, but never actually researched it.

The hydrogen cars run on fuel cells, which in essence are a battery. In general parlance, a battery is any device that uses chemical reactions to generate electricity. The big difference is that in what we think of as a battery, like the ones in your car or flashlight, are closed systems. You deplete the charge in the battery, then either toss it, or charge it back up if it's rechargeable. The inner constituents are fixed for the battery life.

The fuel cell depletes it's charge of hydrogen and oxygen gases, producing water as a waste product BTW, then you refill the cell with hydrogen and oxygen just like refilling your car with gasoline. They aren't 'reverse rechargeable' as a lead-acid or lithium ion battery are, you refill them with fuel to generate more electricity.

The viable ones for auto use are called PEM (proton exchange membrane), they run cool enough (under 180 degrees) to be used in cars. They are far less efficient (60%) than lithium or lead-acid batteries (>90%). Their big advantage is range and weight. Most battery cars are limited in range to 500 miles or less to keep the car's weight similar to other models of the same size, because batteries are heavy. A hydrogen fuel cell weighs less than a standard engine, and if the fuel is available enroute like gas stations are for gas engines, you pull, fuel up and motor on. No waiting 2 or 3 hours for a recharge of the batteries.
 
A lot of countries and a lot of engineers are working on this, so expect a lot of breakthroughs.
You can thank Elon Musk for getting the ball rolling.

Um, two things. This is not a huge new tech battery break through. This is a progression of existing tech to allow faster charger. Now granted, that is important and furthers the viability of electric vehicles, but until there's a different understanding of physics, the amount of power storage possible in a vehicle usable battery has about hit it's maximum.

Two, giving Musk the credit is kinda misplaced. Others have been working on this for 40+ years. He has invested a lot of money into battery technology, but so has GM, Ford, Honda, and Toyota; not to mention all the battery manufacturers themselves. And the REALLY big investments have come the last 15 years from electronics companies, such as Samung, for electronic device batteries like cell phones and laptops. This break through actually was in the lab at Samsung working on device batteries and scaled up to auto batteries.
 
Nothing is for free. You still need energy to charge the battery. Once every one has a battery car you are going to need more power plants to fill the energy need. Guess what those power plants are going to run on.

Unicorn farts?
 
Nothing is for free. You still need energy to charge the battery. Once every one has a battery car you are going to need more power plants to fill the energy need. Guess what those power plants are going to run on.

What are Unicorn farts and rainbows.
 
One of the things we sell is ferrous sulfate heptahydrate. It's a byproduct from steel wire manufacturing. We put in a bid a few years ago to sell it to Phostech Lithium in Quebec, who makes lithium ion batteries. They chose to buy a cheaper alternative from Germany. That's probably why hover boards are blowing up.
 
https://www.tesla.com/gigafactory

Tesla open sourced its battery technology. They are completing their 5 billion dollar battery factory in Nevada now.
These same companies are working on the battery to store solar power in the home. Someday, and sooner than most
people think, consumers will be able to invest in a solar panel and say goodbye to their electric and gasoline bills.

Tesla's loans from the Energy Department are paying dividends
 
consumers will be able to invest in a solar panel and say goodbye to their electric and gasoline bills.


hahahahahaha - more hogwash



Despite Subsidies, Solar Power More Expensive

Solar power remains more expensive than electricity generated from conventional sources despite generous government subsidies estimated at more than $39 billion annually.

Despite the billions of dollars spent on solar subsidies, “solar energy technology continues to remain a high-cost energy option – making up just 1% of U.S. and global electricity generation,” the report concluded, with residential rooftop solar panels being the “least efficient method” to harness solar energy.

http://instituteforenergyresearch.o...gh-Cost-of-Rooftop-Solar-Subsidies-Oct-16.pdf
 
Battery Technology will change everything? Like it already hasn't. C-Cell Phones.

Perhaps this is aimed at the lady folk where some battery operated apparatus could use some tweaking?
 
Again, this is what happens when the country is run by coastal Liberal elites who don't know what it's like to drive 100 miles to the nearest grocery store and think electric cars are great. Like the EPA telling residents of Alaska that they can't burn woo to stay alive.

http://thefederalist.com/2016/12/30/epa-alaskans-sub-zero-temps-stop-burning-wood-keep-warm/

EPA To Alaskans In Sub-Zero Temps: Stop Burning Wood To Keep Warm
In Alaska’s interior, where it can reach -50 degrees Fahrenheit in winter, the EPA wants people to stop burning wood. But it's just about their only feasible way to stay warm.
John Daniel Davidson By John Daniel Davidson
DECEMBER 30, 2016

In Jack London’s famous short story, “To Build A Fire,” a man freezes to death because he underestimates the cold in America’s far north and cannot build a proper fire. The unnamed man—a chechaquo, what Alaska natives call newcomers—is accompanied by a wolf-dog that knows the danger of the cold and is wholly indifferent to the fate of the man. “This man did not know cold. Possibly, all the generations of his ancestry had been ignorant of cold, of real cold, of cold 107 degrees below freezing point. But the dog knew; all its ancestry knew, and it had inherited the knowledge.”

If only the bureaucrats in Washington DC knew what the wolf-dog knew. But alas, now comes the federal government to tell the inhabitants of Alaska’s interior that, really, they should not be building fires to keep themselves warm during the winter. The New York Times reports the Environmental Protection Agency could soon declare the Alaskan cities of Fairbanks and North Pole, which have a combined population of about 100,000, in “serious” noncompliance of the Clean Air Act early next year.

Like most people in Alaska, the residents of those frozen cities are burning wood to keep themselves warm this winter. Smoke from wood-burning stoves increases small-particle pollution, which settles in low-lying areas and can be breathed in. The EPA thinks this is a big problem. Eight years ago, the agency ruled that wide swaths of the most densely populated parts of the region were in “non-attainment” of federal air quality standards.

That prompted state and local authorities to look for ways to cut down on pollution from wood-burning stoves, including the possibility of fining residents who burn wood. After all, a declaration of noncompliance from the EPA would have enormous economic implications for the region, like the loss of federal transportation funding.

The problem is, there’s no replacement for wood-burning stoves in Alaska’s interior. Heating oil is too expensive for a lot of people, and natural gas isn’t available. So they’ve got to burn something. The average low temperature in Fairbanks in December is 13 degrees below zero. In January, it’s 17 below. During the coldest days of winter, the high temperature averages -2 degrees, and it can get as cold as -60. This is not a place where you play games with the cold. If you don’t keep the fire lit, you die. For people of modest means, and especially for the poor, that means you burn wood in a stove—and you keep that fire lit around the clock.

As Necessary As Food And Water
Growing up in Alaska, I learned this from an early age. (My father, in fact, was a chechaquo. As a white kid growing up in Alaska native villages in the 1950s, the native kids would call him and his siblings chechaquos as a kind of juvenile epithet.) Like many families in Alaska, then and now, we weren’t wealthy and had no other means of staying warm besides burning wood. As kids, my brothers and I would spend long hours stacking cords of wood and, when we were older, felling trees, cutting them into logs, and hauling them back to the house. It wasn’t romantic, it was simply part of life in the far north: firewood was as natural and necessary as food and water.

For most Alaskans, it still is. Replacing wood-burning stoves, especially in the state’s interior, isn’t easily done. Ever since the EPA’s ruling in 2008, local and state efforts to address air pollution caused by wood stoves hasn’t solved the problem. As the editors of the Fairbanks newspaper recently noted, “The borough faces two unpalatable alternatives: More stringent restrictions on home heating devices that could impact residents’ ability to heat their homes affordably, or choosing to stand pat and accept a host of costly economic sanctions and health effects to residents.”

Local residents have been assured that of course the government means well. According to the Times, the EPA official in charge claims that “his agency was definitely not trying to take away anyone’s wood stove, or make life more expensive.” But he also said the EPA’s job is to enforce air quality standards set by the Clean Air Act. The implication is clear: these wood stoves are going to be a problem.

‘He Was Without Imagination’
This of course is a ridiculous situation. The EPA has no business telling Alaskans they shouldn’t burn wood to keep warm in the depths of winter. For one thing, concern over air pollution from wood smoke is misplaced. The high levels of particulate matter in places like Fairbanks in January are not the same thing as smog in Los Angeles. The areas affected by pollution from wood stoves are relatively small because they’re the result of something called inversion. At -30 degrees Fahrenheit, smoke doesn’t rise. It drops down to ground level and settles in low-lying areas. But this doesn’t happen city-wide, it happens on a single block or street.

That doesn’t mean people living on that street aren’t affected. But it does mean we aren’t talking about pollution-laced fog descending on an entire city; we’re talking about burning wood to stay warm. If that means you must endure some air pollution from the smoke from time to time, then that’s the price of living in a place like Alaska’s frozen interior. (Full disclosure: I plan to build a cabin in Alaska someday, and I plan to heat it with a wood stove, fully aware that doing so might sometimes subject me to higher levels of particulate pollution. I say it’s worth the risk.)

The problem with the EPA bullying the people of Fairbanks about their wood stoves is that the federal government thinks this is a problem that can be solved. What would the EPA have Alaskans do, use solar panels to heat their homes in winter?

In his story, Jack London wrote of the chechaquo that “The trouble with him was that he was without imagination.” That is, he simply didn’t understand the cold, or where exactly he was:

He was quick and alert in the things of life, but only in the things, and not in the significances. Fifty degrees below zero meant 80 odd degrees of frost. Such facts impressed him as being cold and uncomfortable, and that was all. It did not lead him to meditate upon his frailty as a creature of temperature, and upon man’s frailty in general, able only to live within certain narrow limits of heat and cold; and from there on, it did not lead him to the conjectural field of immortality and man’s place in the universe.
Of the earnest bureaucrats at the EPA fretting over the smoke from Alaskans’ wood stoves in the dead of winter, we might say something similar: they understand facts but not the significance of them. Burning wood when it’s -20 degrees outside will indeed cause the smoke to descend, and breathing such air is admittedly not very healthy. What the EPA doesn’t accept, or even grasp, is man’s place in the universe: in the face of Alaska’s deadly cold interior, there’s only so much we can do. So we build a fire.
 
I hear that there are solar roads and Thorium powered cars right around the corner....
 
i heard that if one began pounding out aggression so much that it turned into obsession, that it may in fact weaken a battery..BAT-TE-RY
 
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