It's the most frustrating aspect of watching this team. Steeler receivers have catches that always seem to be contested, while the opponents play catch in the middle of the field.
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Can anybody offer an explanation for the absolute refusal to pass over the middle of the field?
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Your blaming the wrong guy; it's Shades who mandates the no-passing-in-the-middle-of-the-field policy. He's running a wet-your-pants offense, living in his fears. It's cowardly and pathetic.
I don't get that. A long throw to the sideline is no safer than a throw over the middle. In fact, a good corner can easily jump the route and get a pick 6). To me that is more risky.
Just stated in the Packer thread that we ran a deep drag cross concept with GP and Austin to ice the game on 3rd and long. It would have been a kneel down and the O won the game without Austin hitting a defender for OPI.
Plus I'm not going to ***** too much about route concepts when we dominated the LOS on O with 200+ yds rushing for the first time in 6 years. It's all about perspective for me. Finally won TOP the first time this season and the rushing game is starting to look like a strength. Let's see if we can continue this momentum against the Browns this week!
Plus I'm not going to ***** too much about route concepts when we dominated the LOS on O with 200+ yds rushing for the first time in 6 years. It's all about perspective for me. Finally won TOP the first time this season and the rushing game is starting to look like a strength. Let's see if we can continue this momentum against the Browns this week!
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That's my thoughts. I'm absolutely thrilled what the last two weeks in the running game has done. It's starting to reestablish something That's been lost for a good while.
You're no longer one dimensional.
The next two weeks should tell us alot.
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You would think that rushing that well would open up the pass a little bit, wouldn't you? In the Steelers case, it didn't. I think that makes route concepts an even bigger concern.
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Well, we do run routes over the middle just like everyone else. Mitch always had a problem with throwing over the middle and it seems like Kenny shies away from it.
First play Kenny was late on the throw. If he throws it on time A-Rob is right smack in the middle of the field. If Kenny was a Brock Purdy or Sam Howell he would have thrown to Heyward as the titans left the middle wide open and if you lead him he catches it at the 38ish. But I am ok with dumping down for the easy first down completion as well. Kenny reads late or was just indecisive. A-Rob does a nice job adjusting to the ball.
As you can see where the DL is moving there's a nice throwing lane, the LB has committed his feet to go the flat on the left side, and A-Rob looks for the ball to catch it and run. If thrown correctly to the middle he turns up fora bigger gain.
Now here is a play I want to point out because it was a very good read and very quick decision from Pickett. Not a great throw but a good one and the fact he made the decision so quickly it did not have to be great just good. This is a zone defense up and down. Kenny see's that the CB is staying underneath with Heyward leaving DJ singled up on the safety with lots of room in the zone. My only quip is he threw that ball on the break from DJ. He still needs to see it to throw it. If he can take that next step and be a Brock Purdy or Sam Howell he will throw that ball before the break and if he can become Roethlisberger he will pump fake while DJ is driving to give the impression that the route is a post or go and get that DB to turn his hips up leaving DJ with space to perhaps make him miss for a TD.
Here's a big miss that is really an easy throw if you time it right. And is in the middle of the field again and is thrown late again and inaccurate. He just makes this throw a bit harder than he needs to make it. And the difference is literally half a second. But this is a well designed play by Canada and if executed a nice gain.
Here is a big play left on the field to the middle. CA3 is manned up on a freaking LB. This now is a throw Howell is making all day long right now. Clean pocket with the safety sitting flat footed facing the LOS while CA3 is streaking up the middle. If he throws it out there and lets him go get it this is a TD. Again, a good play design just executed too late.
Here's another nicely designed play over the middle that should have been a TD. Kenny just doesn't see it.
I don't know if this is good or lucky. This is a Roethlisberger throw. Kenny definitely flexed his arm here because an out route with a LB sitting in this zone is a big boy throw. The safe throw is to Washington as the one defender has his back turns and if you throw it to Washingtons left side he turns up field for an easy 5+ yards. But it worked so I can't complain. But I guess I am pointing out we are using the middle here.
Now here's another one where Pickens is wide open over the middle. We ran this play vs the Pack to but got called for PI. But as you can see here Robinson does a nice job of avoiding contact. This is where the play is designed to go. Kenny see's DJ is singled up and lets it fly for the 50/50 ball. It worked and I can't complain. But if you are Brock Purdy you throw it to Pickens in this scenario.
Here's where Pickens gets all butt hurt. Now he was open over the middle which is the kryptonite of KP BUT KP makes the right choice and hits a wide open DJ. But this is another very well designed plays by Canada. #2 for the Titans is matched up on Harris and not looking at anyone else and that is why GP is open. But Kenny reads man and see's #24 is matched up on DJ but he is to the inside and A-Rob is running a slant which is either luck or by design and is obviously going to give DJ separation for an easy TD. Decisive and correct read by KP.
I will look at the Packers game this week but I would guess to see a lot of open opportunities in the middle missed again.
First play Kenny was late on the throw. If he throws it on time A-Rob is right smack in the middle of the field. If Kenny was a Brock Purdy or Sam Howell he would have thrown to Heyward as the titans left the middle wide open and if you lead him he catches it at the 38ish. But I am ok with dumping down for the easy first down completion as well. Kenny reads late or was just indecisive. A-Rob does a nice job adjusting to the ball.
As you can see where the DL is moving there's a nice throwing lane, the LB has committed his feet to go the flat on the left side, and A-Rob looks for the ball to catch it and run. If thrown correctly to the middle he turns up fora bigger gain.
Now here is a play I want to point out because it was a very good read and very quick decision from Pickett. Not a great throw but a good one and the fact he made the decision so quickly it did not have to be great just good. This is a zone defense up and down. Kenny see's that the CB is staying underneath with Heyward leaving DJ singled up on the safety with lots of room in the zone. My only quip is he threw that ball on the break from DJ. He still needs to see it to throw it. If he can take that next step and be a Brock Purdy or Sam Howell he will throw that ball before the break and if he can become Roethlisberger he will pump fake while DJ is driving to give the impression that the route is a post or go and get that DB to turn his hips up leaving DJ with space to perhaps make him miss for a TD.
Here's a big miss that is really an easy throw if you time it right. And is in the middle of the field again and is thrown late again and inaccurate. He just makes this throw a bit harder than he needs to make it. And the difference is literally half a second. But this is a well designed play by Canada and if executed a nice gain.
Here is a big play left on the field to the middle. CA3 is manned up on a freaking LB. This now is a throw Howell is making all day long right now. Clean pocket with the safety sitting flat footed facing the LOS while CA3 is streaking up the middle. If he throws it out there and lets him go get it this is a TD. Again, a good play design just executed too late.
Here's another nicely designed play over the middle that should have been a TD. Kenny just doesn't see it.
I don't know if this is good or lucky. This is a Roethlisberger throw. Kenny definitely flexed his arm here because an out route with a LB sitting in this zone is a big boy throw. The safe throw is to Washington as the one defender has his back turns and if you throw it to Washingtons left side he turns up field for an easy 5+ yards. But it worked so I can't complain. But I guess I am pointing out we are using the middle here.
Now here's another one where Pickens is wide open over the middle. We ran this play vs the Pack to but got called for PI. But as you can see here Robinson does a nice job of avoiding contact. This is where the play is designed to go. Kenny see's DJ is singled up and lets it fly for the 50/50 ball. It worked and I can't complain. But if you are Brock Purdy you throw it to Pickens in this scenario.
Here's where Pickens gets all butt hurt. Now he was open over the middle which is the kryptonite of KP BUT KP makes the right choice and hits a wide open DJ. But this is another very well designed plays by Canada. #2 for the Titans is matched up on Harris and not looking at anyone else and that is why GP is open. But Kenny reads man and see's #24 is matched up on DJ but he is to the inside and A-Rob is running a slant which is either luck or by design and is obviously going to give DJ separation for an easy TD. Decisive and correct read by KP.
I will look at the Packers game this week but I would guess to see a lot of open opportunities in the middle missed again.
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Option#1: They dont trust the QB to make those throws.
Option#2: KP doesn't trust his arm and avoids that part of the field like the plague.
Option#2: KP doesn't trust his arm and avoids that part of the field like the plague.
Within the context of our running game, the running plays were opening up other running plays. Misdirection and pre snap motion were freezing the ILBs, and that is what you want.
I do want to see more play action options, as I'm sure you do too Sarge, because when the running game is clicking like this, play action should open up the receivers.
The route concepts were better this game, but still needs to improve, and the correct receiver needs to get the ball.
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I don't think it has anything to do with them not trusting him or KP not trusting his arm. I think he doesn't read the middle of the field great. I honestly think he isn't horrible at throwing over the middle either just he isn't good at it. I would say slightly below average. But to be honest I think most of his game is just about the same. Slightly below average.
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I don't know.
The middle of the field is obviously the most dangerous, and it requires great 1.) accuracy and a 2.) strong enough arm to avoid trouble. These are two things KP has struggled with this year, so its understandable why he is reluctant to explore this area of the field.
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Accuracy is definitely an issue all over the field. But he has enough arm. He threw an out route to DJ vs the Titans that if he doesn't put zip on it the defender might have a pick six. He doesn't have a cannon but he has an NFL quality arm. But he needs to step into his throws as I have seen him throw off his backfoot a bit and those either come up short or float on him. Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes can throw off their back foot and have enough on it but they are exceptional arm talents. Pickett has an Aaron Rodgers arm. Can make all the throws but has to be mechanically sound.
Look, the real reason is that we are trying to protect the field going into December. We all know how bad the field gets through the Highschool, college and NFL games. Canada is friends with the grounds keepers and is just trying to do them a solid.
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Strongly disagree with the bolded. Rodgers was considered one of the strongest arms in the league especially in his heyday (stronger the BR's). He was basically the predecessor to the Mahomes style of play.
KP has NO WHERE NEAR the arm strength of prime AR (hell, maybe not even old man AR). Not to mention, KP has a pretty bad 'wind up' throwing style.
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I can't find any historical data on the combine pre 2008 but for KP he threw a 54 mph football. Dak Prescott, Daniel Jones and Jalen Hurts all had 54. Guys like Pat Mahomes and Josh Allen were 60+ mph. Brock Purdy was 52. Howell was 59. So I can't compare logically or statistically to Rodgers but I would say Dak and Jalen both have NFL arms and they both were at 54.
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Yea online articles state that AR is in the 60+mph area. Probably one of the best pure passers in the past 20 years.
But I agree that Dak and Hurts are probably good comps.
Didn't read the entire thread but the top two potential reasons are Cananduh and/or Tomlin. The other potentials are WR's not getting open and finally, KP's accuracy. I really think the only reason is because of Canaduh's horrible playcalling for 3 years now or a directive by Tomlin. They have gone to the middle of the field on rare occasions and, without seeing the stats, it seems they've had decent returns when doing so. KP can make any throw on the field if they let him and if he's confident in his protection and what he's seeing.
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KP8; "In college, they used base color crayons for each route, easy to follow and understand. Here, Coach O'Canada uses the same color crayon to show all the routes on the play. Hard to distinguish which receiver is running which route."
Mic drop
Salute the nation
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Proper coaching could maybe fix that.
Holy cow! That's quite an in-depth analysis! You had to have been working on this all day!
I could think of 3 answers that he does not dare say.
1. "It's the play calling" (That would put him in the doghouse)
2. "The pro game is much faster." (That would imply he's not an NFL caliber QB)
3. " I just need to be better". (He just helped the doubters doubt even more)
I don't know what his answer would be other than deflect to something else.
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In his last year at Pitt, Pickett was maybe the best QB in the nation working the middle of the field. Throwing to this area of the field was an issue for the Steelers the year before Pickett was drafted and it was thought his skillset could be the answer. Obviously it's a coaching decision to avoid this area of the field with so many of our QBs having the same issues.
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Yeah I saw a few articles but it literally stated he had never participated in a throwing speed competition. So they are just pulling numbers out of the air. My opinion from watching a lot of packers football is he was a 54-56 mph QB. And after watching Favre he couldn’t hold a candle to his arm. Imo Favre had the greatest arm talent in the history of the NFL. And if you ever watched him you’d see a guy that threw a lot of bad passes but arm bailed his butt out of a lot of bad decisions. Rodgers was maybe second to Montana on accuracy and mechanics.
I think Kenny could clean up his accuracy with better mechanics and timing. He is a second away from some big plays and that is why I say give him until next year to see if it clicks. When Mason came in for Ben he was like Pickett being late with throws. Not as bad but the difference from Ben to Mason was huge. I get why people were upset but when I saw him vs the Browns a couple years later he was light years better. Playing with backups vs starters who were playing for a playoff spot he played very well. Against the Lions there was miscommunication which probably had something to due with lack of first team reps. That was it with the fan base. Now I don’t want to make the same mistake with Pickett because if he isn’t the guy we are 5 years behind. Guys like Heyward and Watt don’t get rings. So what I do if I am the GM is give Pickett until 2024. If he isn’t the guy I trade Watt, Fitzpatrick, and anyone else above 28 I can. Use those picks to ensure a top tier QB. Cross my fingers.
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