Cannot deny the negative impact Ben Roethlisberger had on team chemistry in 2018

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

So take your ball and go home. Your premise is dumb in my opinion. You have yours.

 

[slashsteel]

This is exactly why this will be my last post here. No longer can people have just a friendly debate between people who “supposedly “ cheer for the same team. You don’t know me and I don’t know you. It’s easy to hide behind a computer and call people dumbasses or etc. Just because someone has an opinion different than you. Whether I’m right or completely wrong who cares. Hope you have a great day.

Oh you are the better fan now? because most don't agree with your nonsense?

Grow some thicker skin. Or run home and cry on your pillow, ****.

 

[Steeler Pride]

This is exactly why this will be my last post here. No longer can people have just a friendly debate between people who “supposedly “ cheer for the same team. You don’t know me and I don’t know you. It’s easy to hide behind a computer and call people dumbasses or etc. Just because someone has an opinion different than you. Whether I’m right or completely wrong who cares. Hope you have a great day.

Bye Felicia

 

[Steelworth]

This is exactly why this will be my last post here. No longer can people have just a friendly debate between people who “supposedly “ cheer for the same team. You don’t know me and I don’t know you. It’s easy to hide behind a computer and call people dumbasses or etc. Just because someone has an opinion different than you. Whether I’m right or completely wrong who cares. Hope you have a great day.

Grow some thicker skin. And you know you're going to get blow-back when you point to Ben as the issue with team chemistry.

 

[BAS]

This isn’t a bash Ben thread and everything is his fault. Brown is selfish and quit on the team. With that being said I do believe Ben should take part of the blame in regards to team chemistry. He’s supposedly the leader of the team. I saw this article from Behind Steel Curtain and thought it was worth sharing.

So you don't mean to bash Ben, but at the same time, you cannot deny that Ben is culpable in the AB situation. And then you're shocked/dismayed that there was blowback and insults from people here?

This is exactly why this will be my last post here. No longer can people have just a friendly debate between people who “supposedly “ cheer for the same team. You don’t know me and I don’t know you. It’s easy to hide behind a computer and call people dumbasses or etc. Just because someone has an opinion different than you. Whether I’m right or completely wrong who cares. Hope you have a great day.

So basically -- you challenge everyone with a conflicting viewpoint that you, yourself created -- and now you're turned off by the insults that resulted?

Yep... better you just quit while you're ahead.

 

[slashsteel]

Grow some thicker skin. And you know you're going to get blow-back when you point to Ben as the issue with team chemistry.

If he would have created a thread talking about turnover differential he could have pointed to Ben and the secondary's lack of INTs.

But besides that Ben is the bright spot, on a team in some disarray.

 

[Atlsteelers]

If he would have created a thread talking about turnover differential he could have pointed to Ben and the secondary's lack of INTs.

But besides that Ben is the bright spot, on a team in some disarray.

No you would have said poor coaching and route running.

 

[Steeler Pride]

No you would have said poor coaching and route running.

This is exactly why this will be my last post here.

Guess not

 

[slashsteel]

No you would have said poor coaching and route running.

You obviously don't know me very well. I have no agendas (unlike you).

As I just told you what I would have agreed with in reference to Ben. And there is something statistical to back your opinion if that was the topic.

Your ****** Ben opinion in this thread is backed up by nothing, but yet there you are holding onto it like it is a long lost puppy.

It has been pointed out that Tomlin has his own show and was a lot more slamming of players than Ben ever thought of being. Yet just crickets from you.

But you want to question peoples fandom for hurting your feelings.and question Ben's HOF credentials, and think you won't get backlash at something that preposterous?

Some funny **** right there.

 

[wig]

Atl, Roethlisberger regularly takes responsibility for his crap throws, INCLUDING the Denver pick. Yes - he said AB ran the route incorrectly (he did), but he said "I threw a bad ball, I NEVER should have thrown that."
That sounds to me like Ben taking responsibility for the pick.

I personally saw AT LEAST 2 picks where it was clear to me that Brown didn't run through the route. Had he burst through with complete commitment, he makes the catch, because he's a freakin' GOD when it comes to catching the ball.
Now who knows, maybe the route CALLS for AB to jog out the last 3 yards, maybe AB was looking to squat in a zone and Ben threw wide.
What I do recognize is that Ben tends to take blame (himself) when he makes his one or two really awful throws a game.
Every now and then we also see AB do the 'that was on me" thing, but not nearly so often as Ben.
At the end of the day neither is perfect, but only 1 of them is throwing a temper tantrum.

 

[DBS1970]

This is exactly why this will be my last post here. No longer can people have just a friendly debate between people who “supposedly “ cheer for the same team. You don’t know me and I don’t know you. It’s easy to hide behind a computer and call people dumbasses or etc. Just because someone has an opinion different than you. Whether I’m right or completely wrong who cares. Hope you have a great day.

Hie thee hence.

Get on your giddyup sticks and start stepping.

Don’t go away mad just go away.

You are leaving a message board, unlike when you suck dick you don’t need to open your mouth to do it.

 

[Coryea]

Ed Bouchette himself said that AB running the wrong route resulted in a few of Ben's picks.

So let's look at these picks, that everyone says lost us games, but have yet to point to any other games aside from Denver.
He threw 3 in the first half @ Cleveland, two were basically short punts. Cleveland didn't score on any of those. We were up 21-7 with 8 minutes to go in that game, his INT's had nothing to do with the outcome. Jacksonville, again 3 INT's early and definitely a big reason we were behind, but he had a great 4th quarter and brought us back to win the game.
so right there are 6 INT's that didn't result in us losing, add the few INT's AB caused and suddenly his INT # is at 7 for the remaining 14 games. Not really that bad, the Denver pick was the only INT that had a direct result in us losing.

It's amazing the number of times he brought us back in the 4th, the Jacksonville game, the Raider game(of course Boz whiffs and the defense gives up the lead), the Saints game, put us ahead then the defense gives it up, then drives us down the field again when JuJu fumble, Chargers game, defense gives up 18 fourth quarter points, he leads a drive to tie the game with a TD, then the defense allows the Chargers to go right down the field for a FG as time expires. In the fourth vs New England leading 14-10, he led a 13 play FG drive killing clock. The game @ Cincy we are losing in the 4th, TD drive and pass to JuJu to put us in the lead. 4th Quarter @Baltimore, us up by one score, he leads an 11 play 6 minute FG drive to put us up by two scores. The last Bengal game when AB bolted, we were tied in the 4th, he led a 12 play FG drive for the win.

It's funny no one wants to talk about that, everyone just want's to blame him for AB, blame him for turnover, blame him for team chemistry, blame him for Porter being fired, blame him for the price of beer at Heinz Field, blame him for Tomlin having zero control over the team, blame him for Neil throwing to wrong team, blame him for AB speeding, blame him for drafting Jarvis Jones, etc. etc.

Just think, all those game I listed from just this season, how they look with say Dobbs at QB, and not Ben.

 

[Steelworth]

No you would have said poor coaching and route running.

That's certainly the way to have just some good old football discussion, assume someone's position on something before that discussion is even started.

 

[SteelerFan448]

And if you wanna get REALLY down in the nitty gritty, it SEEMS that AB skipped the next 2 practices, including the final walkthrough AND the team meeting before the game.
And if you believe the reports Tomlin STILL had AB's pads and Jersey sitting out on game day.

I wonder if he (Tomlin) didn't get a ration of **** from players and/or management and he was FORCED to bench AB.
And then, in order to seem like an ACTUAL coach, Tomlin threw AB who had no idea he was going to get in trouble for his antics, under a Tomlin incompetency sized bus.

The equipment staff puts the uniforms out and then will remove them once they receive the inactive list.

 

[topseed]

Ed Bouchette himself said that AB running the wrong route resulted in a few of Ben's picks.

So let's look at these picks, that everyone says lost us games, but have yet to point to any other games aside from Denver.
He threw 3 in the first half @ Cleveland, two were basically short punts. Cleveland didn't score on any of those. We were up 21-7 with 8 minutes to go in that game, his INT's had nothing to do with the outcome. Jacksonville, again 3 INT's early and definitely a big reason we were behind, but he had a great 4th quarter and brought us back to win the game.
so right there are 6 INT's that didn't result in us losing, add the few INT's AB caused and suddenly his INT # is at 7 for the remaining 14 games. Not really that bad, the Denver pick was the only INT that had a direct result in us losing.

It's amazing the number of times he brought us back in the 4th, the Jacksonville game, the Raider game(of course Boz whiffs and the defense gives up the lead), the Saints game, put us ahead then the defense gives it up, then drives us down the field again when JuJu fumble, Chargers game, defense gives up 18 fourth quarter points, he leads a drive to tie the game with a TD, then the defense allows the Chargers to go right down the field for a FG as time expires. In the fourth vs New England leading 14-10, he led a 13 play FG drive killing clock. The game @ Cincy we are losing in the 4th, TD drive and pass to JuJu to put us in the lead. 4th Quarter @Baltimore, us up by one score, he leads an 11 play 6 minute FG drive to put us up by two scores. The last Bengal game when AB bolted, we were tied in the 4th, he led a 12 play FG drive for the win.

It's funny no one wants to talk about that, everyone just want's to blame him for AB, blame him for turnover, blame him for team chemistry, blame him for Porter being fired, blame him for the price of beer at Heinz Field, blame him for Tomlin having zero control over the team, blame him for Neil throwing to wrong team, blame him for AB speeding, blame him for drafting Jarvis Jones, etc. etc.

Just think, all those game I listed from just this season, how they look with say Dobbs at QB, and not Ben.

Yeah, but Ben still led the league in picks -- that's why the Steelers missed the playoffs.

Just ask antdrew.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

i have noticed that people who support Tomlin tend to bash Ben. It seems to stem from a need to overcome the narrative that Ben is the main reason the steelers are a winning team. As such, they don't think Tomlin gets enough credit. Instead of pointing to the great things Tomlin has done, they instead tear down Ben.

Ben's not perfect. Some of the losses are his fault when he has a bad game. But even in a "bad" game, Ben usually has enough great moments to win or come damn close. Most games, particularly in the last few years after the defense went downhill, rest completely on Ben's shoulders. He does deliver most times.

Ben's passive aggressive stuff bugs me a bit too sometimes. I think it's because he's had a strange career in terms of being a leader.

When Ben arrived, he took over a Super Bowl caliber team, loaded with veterans and even some Hall of Famers. The QB is usually the leader, but how could Ben lead in that situation?

As the old players retired over the years, it finally became Ben's team. By that time though, the roster was stacked with "young money" players and not the old school guys Ben learned from. So when it was finally his time to lead, he was surrounded by guys he didn't understand.

They young guys respected Ben but he wasn't really part of their inner circle.

When Ben first mentioned retirement a few years ago, it turned out the reason was his frustration with how the young guys were acting. I think the passive aggressive stuff came because Ben didn't have enough standing with the young guys to be more of a direct leader without them hating him. So he turned to comments in the media hoping that kind of pressure would change behaviors.

 

[diver]

What interests me about this discussion is a question I keep asking myself. How do you lead guys who have no desire to be led?

Instead of arguing over who is more responsible or who is at fault and so on...can some of these narcissistic guys who have had their ***** sniffed since middle school be led? You see it in the NFL all the time, outside of New England. Look what happened in Jacksonville this year. It seems like you can only grab their attention, keep them focused for a season or a little beyond, then things seem to chip away. The fact that the Steelers are there every year with the chaos is kind of impressive in a way. Jacksonville waan't even a threat this year. I think I'm just pissed that the Steelers can't be New England and duplicate whatever the hell they are doing up there.

 

[Drink IRON City]

What interests me about this discussion is a question I keep asking myself. How do you lead guys who have no desire to be led?

Instead of arguing over who is more responsible or who is at fault and so on...can some of these narcissistic guys who have had their ***** sniffed since middle school be led? You see it in the NFL all the time, outside of New England. Look what happened in Jacksonville this year. It seems like you can only grab their attention, keep them focused for a season or a little beyond, then things seem to chip away. The fact that the Steelers are there every year with the chaos is kind of impressive in a way. Jacksonville waan't even a threat this year. I think I'm just pissed that the Steelers can't be New England and duplicate whatever the hell they are doing up there.

A little off topic but wish to emulate N.E. cheateriots. Think about this, TAKE the cheating away and let say they are a .500 ball club or less....... What do you think their attitude would be like then. How or what percentage of the cheating allowed them to be winning record for 19+ years??????? AMAZing how much different they would look with out all the hidden advantages they have received over the years. JUST as an example, take last year's Jessie James catch ruled in their favor which contributed to their successful season..... HOW many of those plays have we witnessed favorable for them....... I think you get what I'm saying so to use them as the criteria, let's get all the aspects on the table.



Salute the nation

 

[jsinohio]

i have noticed that people who support Tomlin tend to bash Ben. It seems to stem from a need to overcome the narrative that Ben is the main reason the steelers are a winning team. As such, they don't think Tomlin gets enough credit. Instead of pointing to the great things Tomlin has done, they instead tear down Ben.

Ben's not perfect. Some of the losses are his fault when he has a bad game. But even in a "bad" game, Ben usually has enough great moments to win or come damn close. Most games, particularly in the last few years after the defense went downhill, rest completely on Ben's shoulders. He does deliver most times.

Ben's passive aggressive stuff bugs me a bit too sometimes. I think it's because he's had a strange career in terms of being a leader.

When Ben arrived, he took over a Super Bowl caliber team, loaded with veterans and even some Hall of Famers. The QB is usually the leader, but how could Ben lead in that situation?

As the old players retired over the years, it finally became Ben's team. By that time though, the roster was stacked with "young money" players and not the old school guys Ben learned from. So when it was finally his time to lead, he was surrounded by guys he didn't understand.

They young guys respected Ben but he wasn't really part of their inner circle.

When Ben first mentioned retirement a few years ago, it turned out the reason was his frustration with how the young guys were acting. I think the passive aggressive stuff came because Ben didn't have enough standing with the young guys to be more of a direct leader without them hating him. So he turned to comments in the media hoping that kind of pressure would change behaviors.

I truly think you've captured it...best synopsis I've seen yet.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

When Ben first mentioned retirement a few years ago, it turned out the reason was his frustration with how the young guys were acting. I think the passive aggressive stuff came because Ben didn't have enough standing with the young guys to be more of a direct leader without them hating him. So he turned to comments in the media hoping that kind of pressure would change behaviors.

Where did you get that info?

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Where did you get that info?

I don’t have a link or anything. I believe i read or heard that from beat writers that the 2 factors making Ben unhappy were Haley and the atmosphere in the lockers room. Maybe somebody else can back me up on that but i’m pretty sure that was the case.

I know just on this board and for myself, i and many other fans have felt a bit less connected to this team over the last few years. For me it was because i felt like a large portion of the players didn’t care if they won. Bell and AB seemed indifferent to the steelers winning. And then you had Mike Mitchell getting beat and talking ****.

basically, it felt like a team of mercenaries.

i think it’s part of why JuJu is so loved now. Yes, it’s partly because he’s making plays, but it’s also because of his attitude. He seems like a guy who is dedicated to winning and doing whatever it takes.

It seems the steelers have also seen this need for an attitude change finally.

 

[Coryea]

I don’t have a link or anything. I believe i read or heard that from beat writers that the 2 factors making Ben unhappy were Haley and the atmosphere in the lockers room. Maybe somebody else can back me up on that but i’m pretty sure that was the case.

I know just on this board and for myself, i and many other fans have felt a bit less connected to this team over the last few years. For me it was because i felt like a large portion of the players didn’t care if they won. Bell and AB seemed indifferent to the steelers winning. And then you had Mike Mitchell getting beat and talking ****.

basically, it felt like a team of mercenaries.

i think it’s part of why JuJu is so loved now. Yes, it’s partly because he’s making plays, but it’s also because of his attitude. He seems like a guy who is dedicated to winning and doing whatever it takes.

It seems the steelers have also seen this need for an attitude change finally.

That was pretty much the thought by those that covered the team, that Ben's retirement talks was exactly that, to get everyones attention that he wasn't happy with the way the team was headed. Heath Miller had to tell AB to shut the hell up before.

I couldn't agree more, there's only a handful of guys that seem like they even care about winning, and when one of your best players (AB) seems like he only cares about stats, well that's going to be a problem

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[CharlesDavenport]

I don’t have a link or anything. I believe i read or heard that from beat writers that the 2 factors making Ben unhappy were Haley and the atmosphere in the lockers room. Maybe somebody else can back me up on that but i’m pretty sure that was the case.

I know just on this board and for myself, i and many other fans have felt a bit less connected to this team over the last few years. For me it was because i felt like a large portion of the players didn’t care if they won. Bell and AB seemed indifferent to the steelers winning. And then you had Mike Mitchell getting beat and talking ****.

basically, it felt like a team of mercenaries.

i think it’s part of why JuJu is so loved now. Yes, it’s partly because he’s making plays, but it’s also because of his attitude. He seems like a guy who is dedicated to winning and doing whatever it takes.

It seems the steelers have also seen this need for an attitude change finally.

I don't doubt it. Just thought maybe I missed something. I agree that a lot of this team has seemed fine with their level of success. A lot of lip service to "the standard" but the same **** every year.

 

[SteelerFan448]

I don’t have a link or anything. I believe i read or heard that from beat writers that the 2 factors making Ben unhappy were Haley and the atmosphere in the lockers room. Maybe somebody else can back me up on that but i’m pretty sure that was the case.

Didn't Polamalu question some of the younger guys when he was near the end of his career?

i think it’s part of why JuJu is so loved now. Yes, it’s partly because he’s making plays, but it’s also because of his attitude. He seems like a guy who is dedicated to winning and doing whatever it takes.

It seems the steelers have also seen this need for an attitude change finally.

The 2017 draft was not a mistake. The Steelers were looking to get a different type of player in the locker room--more guys focused on the team and winning. They come up with Watt, JuJu, Sutton, Conner, and Dobbs with their first five picks--all respected players and/or team captains. They went with high character players and it also happened to be their best draft in a long time as they have three Pro Bowlers and two backups just from that group. The 2018 draft may not have had the same high-level character guys in it, but it is still trending in that direction compared to previous years.

 

[Steelworth]

Didn't Polamalu question some of the younger guys when he was near the end of his career?

He did. But I don't think it was so much the younger guys as it was the me-first guys, in which AB is the apparent ringleader.

The 2017 draft was not a mistake. The Steelers were looking to get a different type of player in the locker room--more guys focused on the team and winning. They come up with Watt, JuJu, Sutton, Conner, and Dobbs with their first five picks--all respected players and/or team captains. They went with high character players and it also happened to be their best draft in a long time as they have three Pro Bowlers and two backups just from that group. The 2018 draft may not have had the same high-level character guys in it, but it is still trending in that direction compared to previous years.

Absolutely, that was undeniable (the 2017 drafting of high character guys). So at least they saw the problem and were attempting to change it. I think 2018 was no different, it's just these guys have been much quieter. But Edmunds, Washington, Chuks, Rudolph etc. I think are all high character guys.