Changes in Philosophy

[FordFairLane]

Just was breaking down Cowher vs Tomlin when it came to drafting in the trenches. Cowher drafted OL or DL 18 times in the top three rounds in his 15 drafts. Tomlin went OL/DL just 11 times. Interesting change in philosophy you can see from one coach to the next. But I decided to break it down further just for fun. Here's all their first round pick breakdown by position.

Bill---------------------Mike
QB- 1---------------------1
RB- 0--------------------2
WR- 4------------------- 0
TE- 2-------------------0
OL- 4-------------------2
DL- 1-------------------2
Edge- 0-------------------3
ILB- 0-------------------3
CB- 2---------------------1
S- 1---------------------1

You could say two safeties for Tomlin for the Fitz trade I suppose. But it is interesting to see where each emphasized importance and where each had their successes. Bill, obviously emphasized the trenches spending not only more first round picks but first 3 round picks upfront. Tomlin looks to use a lot of picks on edge/linebackers but if you really look has not had as much success as Cowher, who didn't use any first round picks on Edge/linebackers. Cowher however used a lot of first round picks on receivers but really did not have nearly the success as Tomlin has had even with Tomlin not ever going first round on a WR yet. (Claypool was a second) RB is another interesting one as Cowher definitely had a better run game but never went RB in the first round. My opinion is Cowher traded for Bettis and didn't need a RB for 6 seasons and even when he did need a RB the line typically was good enough where the likes of Bam Morris and Barry Foster could get it done.

 

[livingthrudying]

You have to go look at more than just who they drafted. There is so much more that goes into this. Unless you're in the Top 3 or so you're not picking what you want your picking what's available based on your board and sometimes it happens to link up with what you need.

 

[Wolf44]

Tomlin doesn't value the OLine he values splash plays and skill players. Too stupid to realize you don't protect your QB with weapons as he stupidly said.

 

[Steelmann]

Just was breaking down Cowher vs Tomlin when it came to drafting in the trenches. Cowher drafted OL or DL 18 times in the top three rounds in his 15 drafts. Tomlin went OL/DL just 11 times. Interesting change in philosophy you can see from one coach to the next. But I decided to break it down further just for fun. Here's all their first round pick breakdown by position.

Bill---------------------Mike
QB- 1---------------------1
RB- 0--------------------2
WR- 4------------------- 0
TE- 2-------------------0
OL- 4-------------------2
DL- 1-------------------2
Edge- 0-------------------3
ILB- 0-------------------3
CB- 2---------------------0
S- 1---------------------1

You could say two safeties for Tomlin for the Fitz trade I suppose. But it is interesting to see where each emphasized importance and where each had their successes. Bill, obviously emphasized the trenches spending not only more first round picks but first 3 round picks upfront. Tomlin looks to use a lot of picks on edge/linebackers but if you really look has not had as much success as Cowher, who didn't use any first round picks on Edge/linebackers. Cowher however used a lot of first round picks on receivers but really did not have nearly the success as Tomlin has had even with Tomlin not ever going first round on a WR yet. (Claypool was a second) RB is another interesting one as Cowher definitely had a better run game but never went RB in the first round. My opinion is Cowher traded for Bettis and didn't need a RB for 6 seasons and even when he did need a RB the line typically was good enough where the likes of Bam Morris and Barry Foster could get it done.

Artie Burns CB. CMT

 

[madinsomniac]

Its more than that… look at the number of Oline coaches under tge two in the same timeframe… look at the varied schemes…. Cowher’s teams used tge same stuff just tweaked throughout his tenure… Tomlin used that one season then let arians change it and it’s been in flux until Munch stabilized it for a bit, then we started changing things again…

 

[madinsomniac]

Cowher
1992-2000 kent Stephenson
2001 -2006 Russ Grimm

Tomlin
2007-2009 Larry Zierlien
2010-2012 Sean Kugler
2013-Jack Bicknell Jr
2014-2018 Mike Munchak
2019-2020 Sean Sarret
2021 Adrian Klemm ( did not finish season)

 

[Troglodyte]

To really put it in perspective, you need to adjust for the number of players by position. OL has five players so it makes Tomlin’s lack of drafting them that much more telling.

 

[livingthrudying]

Cowher
1992-2000 kent Stephenson
2001 -2006 Russ Grimm

Tomlin
2007-2009 Larry Zierlien
2010-2012 Sean Kugler
2013-Jack Bicknell Jr
2014-2018 Mike Munchak
2019-2020 Sean Sarret
2021 Adrian Klemm ( did not finish season)

Not a single one of these coaches have moved on to do better. All have either made lateral moves and didn't stay long anywhere or have moved backward going to college teams.

 

[BLITZ]

Not investing in the oline for as long as this team has catches up to you. Tomlin, Colbert whomever should have seen this coming years ago. I mean guys on a message board did.

 

[FordFairLane]

I guess to me when you break this down is Cowher seemed to always have awesome LB's but never went LB in round one, but who went WR 4 times and best one was a third round pick out of Georgia. And Tomlin who never went WR once in the first has had great success developing some later round guys but who has gone to the LB well 6 times in the first round and has one great edge guy in Watt and a good NFL starter in Dupree. It's hard to judge too harshly at ILB because Shazier was well on the way to being a perennial pro bowler had the freak injury. And that probably lead to Bush being drafted whom is a colossal bust.

 

[livingthrudying]

The real issue and this is true league-wide. An amazing running back will suck behind a terrible line, while a mediocre back will do good behind a great line. Good linemen play usually into the double digits of years at a high level. Running backs hardly ever play well into their second contract (yes there are a few exceptions). The point is A running back in round one pretty much seems like a waste almost always ( high 90th percentile of times). It is even more questionable and outright stupid that the last two drafts' 1st and 2nd round picks have been offensive-skill position players when you know you have a serious issue with your Oline. Put everything else aside for the last umpteen years Tomlin has been the coach and this is an inexcusable offense if not fireable one.

 

[madinsomniac]

I guess to me when you break this down is Cowher seemed to always have awesome LB's but never went LB in round one, but who went WR 4 times and best one was a third round pick out of Georgia. And Tomlin who never went WR once in the first has had great success developing some later round guys but who has gone to the LB well 6 times in the first round and has one great edge guy in Watt and a good NFL starter in Dupree. It's hard to judge too harshly at ILB because Shazier was well on the way to being a perennial pro bowler had the freak injury. And that probably lead to Bush being drafted whom is a colossal bust.

I looked up Cowhers wrs once and they were mostly abysmal.. not just the firsts, all over.. plaxico was ok, but also the 8th overall and he never made a pro bowl.. Hastings was serviceable… Ward was great, but cowher had most success with guys like him that were ultimately converted QBs for some reason…Kordell, Antwan Randel El…

but outside of those five, it was chock full of charkes davenports and will blackwells …

He had two things going for him on the LB front
A.) for most of his tenure, few teams ran a 3/4… and fewer were running the version we were, so tweeners that teams didn’t think fit their system he could gobble up in later rounds and
B.) Cowhers was a LB in his playing days, so he understood the traits that best fit the position

Tomlin was an old wideout in college, and he understands the things that best serve wrs especially now that the NFL opened up the middle… there is still a generation of scouts that is trained to find wrs who are going to thrive outside… i think there is a reason why a lot of our guys, even the outside ones, seem to be capable of playing in the slot… what Tomlin looks for is what makes them good in the quicker reaction areas…