Charleston shooting.

[Tim Steelersfan]

I've been on vacation for over a week. Took the family down to Orlando, and we drove I95 south from the DC area. As is that route, we go through VA, NC, SC, Georgia, then northern FL.

On the way back Friday, we were in SC (the day they removed the Confederate Flag from the state grounds) and as we are meandering up 95 I look up at an overpass, and there sat an old geezer in a golf cart, waving that flag back and forth. I couldn't get the cellie out quick enough to capture it.

I said "Good for you" to which the family said "Huh?" and I had to explain how the flag offends me, but that I LOVE the fact that in this country you have the right (or "should" have the right) to wave it and be an idiot - that that right to Free Speech is incredibly important.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Just another example of how polarized this country is. What will it take to unite us. .....an attack from aliens?

No, but if we elected a black President it would help a lot. Oh wait....

 

[IndySteel]

............................

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

So you really think that taking the flag down has helped racism?

The flag represented an institution which willfully harmed, raped and destroyed several Americans. Stars and bars, despite what 'some' people may argue, was designed to represent the Confederacy- which in turn represented slavery. The fact the it was flown over a public building was/is appalling. Imagine a German province flying the Nazi flag over a building?

Taking it down wont reduce racism, but it will make people ask questions about themselves and others. Like:

"Why is that guy so adamant about the confederate flag and he isn't even from the south?"
"The flag has offended so many Americans for so many years, why hasnt this been done already?"

 

[Superman]

I've been on vacation for over a week. Took the family down to Orlando, and we drove I95 south from the DC area. As is that route, we go through VA, NC, SC, Georgia, then northern FL.

On the way back Friday, we were in SC (the day they removed the Confederate Flag from the state grounds) and as we are meandering up 95 I look up at an overpass, and there sat an old geezer in a golf cart, waving that flag back and forth. I couldn't get the cellie out quick enough to capture it.

I said "Good for you" to which the family said "Huh?" and I had to explain how the flag offends me, but that I LOVE the fact that in this country you have the right (or "should" have the right) to wave it and be an idiot - that that right to Free Speech is incredibly important.

you were about a mile south of the largest confederate flag in the nation. some guy living right off 275 has a huge flagpole and alternates flags on it. most times, he has a confederate flag.

while i understand that some people view the flag as racist, hate-filled, etc, etc, it is a part of the nation's ugly history. not everything was divine and pure. still isnt. to remove the flag as it is being done, will allow people to forget the past, incrementally generation by generation. I dont believe we ever need to forget this part of out past, so that it doesnt pop up again in the future.

 

[Yinzerlyn]

The flag represented an institution which willfully harmed, raped and destroyed several Americans. Stars and bars, despite what 'some' people may argue, was designed to represent the Confederacy- which in turn represented slavery. The fact the it was flown over a public building was/is appalling. Imagine a German province flying the Nazi flag over a building?

Taking it down wont reduce racism, but it will make people ask questions about themselves and others. Like:

"Why is that guy so adamant about the confederate flag and he isn't even from the south?"
"The flag has offended so many Americans for so many years, why hasnt this been done already?"

I never once asked myself those questions, and I lived in the deep south for many years. I don't know anyone who has ever asked themselves those questions (or questions similar).

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

I never once asked myself those questions, and I lived in the deep south for many years. I don't know anyone who has ever asked themselves those questions (or questions similar).

Ok-

Then what do you think when you see a person waving a Confederate flag? What is the first thing that pops in your head?

And if you think "Southern Pride", then please explain to me what that is.

 

[Superman]

Ok-

Then what do you think when you see a person waving a Confederate flag? What is the first thing that pops in your head?

And if you think "Southern Pride", then please explain to me what that is.

I'll answer, since I was born in the south, live in the south and will likely die in the south.

it's about being proud of your ancestors, for right or wrong. They took a stand and went to war for it. Regardless of what we think NOW, it was a lifestyle back then for some people to own slaves. No one in my family, on either side (maternal/paternal) ever owned slaves. Not one. Yet there are people who erroneously think that every single white person in the south owned slaves or supported slavery. That's simply not true. I'm proud that my family looks past skin color to determine a person's worth. I'm proud that that has been passed down to me. I'm proud of the fact that there are people in the south working to get past racism. I'm proud that the confederate flag does not mean today what it meant in the late 1800s. Not to me or anyone I know, anyway.

and like I said previously, if you remove public displays of the flag, you're essentially attempting to, for lack of better term, whitewash history. We do not need to forget slavery. We need to understand that it was a terrible time in our nation's young history and MUST be remembered so that it is NOT repeated - to any race.

for ****'s sake, you brought up the Nazi flag.
to some people the Holocaust didnt happen. Despite countless tales of it, despite records, despite photos and survivor tales. and that was not even 100 years ago.

do we need either of these to repeat? ever?

I understand that the confederate flag invokes taught images of slavery and evilness of the white man in the south. I dont own one, an d likely never will. Yet, if we dig deeper into slavery, we still see that the slaves were sold by people of their own skin color to the white man. And those slaves were, from articles I'd read, treated even more harshly by the slave traders in Africa than they were here. That is somehow glossed over and forgotten and the white man is made the common denominator of evil.

so, yes, I'm proud of my Southern Heritage. I have Southern Pride.

interestingly enough, the ONLY person I've ever known whose ancestors owned slaves was from the north.

 

[Rod Farva]

The flag represented an institution which willfully harmed, raped and destroyed several Americans. Stars and bars, despite what 'some' people may argue, was designed to represent the Confederacy- which in turn represented slavery. The fact the it was flown over a public building was/is appalling. Imagine a German province flying the Nazi flag over a building?

Taking it down wont reduce racism, but it will make people ask questions about themselves and others. Like:

"Why is that guy so adamant about the confederate flag and he isn't even from the south?"
"The flag has offended so many Americans for so many years, why hasnt this been done already?"

Being in the north, the sight of the flag used to make me think these thoughts;

Dude's a redneck......or
Dude's an attention *****.......or
Dude's from the south........or
Dude's expressing his rebellious nature and is unhappy with governmental over reach.

Never even once did I think Dude believes in slavery. Never. Maybe because I was always an optimist about human nature. I'm not anymore but that's another thread......

While I can understand that there are those who believe that slavery is all that flag stands for I believe that those are folks who choose to believe that because it fits their narrow view of things.

To me it stands for rebellion against an oppressive central government that disregards the rights of the individual states to self govern in all things not expressly given to the federal government constitutionally.

You and I will never agree on that I'm certain. But you don't have ( nor does anyone else) a "right" to not be offended. I (and every citizen) on the other hand do have the right to free expression. I'm sure you don't want to ever lose that.

 

[Mr.Rocco]

Ok-

Then what do you think when you see a person waving a Confederate flag? What is the first thing that pops in your head?

And if you think "Southern Pride", then please explain to me what that is.

My first thought is Skynrd must be in town.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Ok-

Then what do you think when you see a person waving a Confederate flag? What is the first thing that pops in your head?

And if you think "Southern Pride", then please explain to me what that is.

Proud of being where you're from. I don't see it as any different than me flying a Steelers flag outside my house. Slavery and racism is not the first thing that pops into my head.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Ok-

Then what do you think when you see a person waving a Confederate flag? What is the first thing that pops in your head?

And if you think "Southern Pride", then please explain to me what that is.

I think "redneck" and "Southerner" Neither of which equal being in favor of slavery. I'm from WV. I'm proud of my roots. But technically, I'm a "redneck" and wear the label, begrudgingly at times. I abhor racism and slavery.

Here's what I find interesting with your line of questioning...the inherent double standard. You are asking us "what do you think when you see a person waving the Confederate flag?" As if the responses somehow matter, somehow make it ok to erase history, somehow make it ok to infringe on Freedom of Speech. I'm not sure what you'd plan to do with the responses, but you're hoping to hear people say things that will support your belief that the flag should come down. OK fine, ask away, ask us to "label" Southerners.

But, what if I in turn asked you these questions?
"What do you think when you see a black guy walking down the streets, sagging drawers, covered in tattoos, cursing and swearing loudly?"
"If you were a cop, and you saw two cars speeding, one driven by a white guy, one by a black guy, which would you pull over?"
"What do you think when you see a black woman, in the grocery, with 3 kids, using food stamps to buy her food?"
"What do you think when you see a group of black guys wearing NWA T-Shirts?"

Most people in society would object to anyone even asking these questions. The questions themselves lead to putting labels on people, to generalizing. In fact, when asked these very types of questions, people have to be very careful how they respond. The answer could lead to loss of job, etc.

So why is it that Southerners are fair game for labeling and stereotyping? Why can these same types of damning questions be asked, and labels applied, when there is inherently no difference?

 

[Super Dave]

The flag represented an institution which willfully harmed, raped and destroyed several Americans. Stars and bars, despite what 'some' people may argue, was designed to represent the Confederacy- which in turn represented slavery. The fact the it was flown over a public building was/is appalling. Imagine a German province flying the Nazi flag over a building?

Taking it down wont reduce racism, but it will make people ask questions about themselves and others. Like:

"Why is that guy so adamant about the confederate flag and he isn't even from the south?"
"The flag has offended so many Americans for so many years, why hasnt this been done already?"

That flag was taken down off the South Carolina Statehouse Dome in 2001.

Included in the deal that passed the SC Legislature that brought down that flag then was the protection of the Confederate Soldiers Monuments that are virtually in every town in South Carolina. THAT is where the current flag was removed from. It was not atop any building.

Turns out the people who fought for that deal had justified fears that this would never end with a flag being moved. Now the offended zealots are going after the Monuments. What a shock.

 

[Yinzerlyn]

Ok-

Then what do you think when you see a person waving a Confederate flag? What is the first thing that pops in your head?

And if you think "Southern Pride", then please explain to me what that is.

I see someone waving a flag. Nothing more. Yes, some of those people waving the flag were the stereotypical "redneck,' but I never thought anything more than a person waving a flag.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

So why is it that Southerners are fair game for labeling and stereotyping? Why can these same types of damning questions be asked, and labels applied, when there is inherently no difference?

Hater. Only white people are racist. Southern white people especially. Everybody knows that.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

In other news, Missouri has renamed the Stonewall Jackson Festival to the "Harry Truman Festival".
http://www.grandview.org/index.aspx?page=770

Oh wait....
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19911103&slug=1314805

Truman's Racist Talk Cited By Historian
AP
NEW YORK - Harry Truman, who made civil rights a federal priority for the first time since Reconstruction, expressed strong racist sentiments before, during and after his presidency, a historian says.

Although Truman toned down his racist expressions after entering the White House in 1945, he continued to use racial slurs in private conversation for the rest of his life, said William Leuchtenburg, president of the American Historical Association.

Leuchtenburg, a University of North Carolina professor, is writing a book on Truman.

In 1911, the year he turned 27, Truman wrote to his future wife, Bess: "I think one man is just as good as another so long as he's honest and decent and not a nigger or a Chinaman. Uncle Will says that the Lord made a white man from dust, a nigger from mud, then He threw up what was left and it came down a Chinaman."

"(Uncle Will) does hate Chinese and Japs," Truman continued. "So do I. It is race prejudice, I guess. But I am strongly of the opinion Negroes ought to be in Africa, yellow men in Asia and white men in Europe and America."

More than 25 years later, Truman, then a U.S. senator from Missouri, wrote a letter to his daughter describing waiters at The White House as "an army of coons." In a letter to his wife in 1939 he referred to "nigger picnic day."

Leuchtenburg said recently that some scholars have known about Truman's racist utterances since his letters were opened. "But somehow," Leuchtenburg said, "this has not permeated the public consciousness."

Liz Safly, a librarian at the Truman Library in Independence, Mo., agreed that Truman's remarks were familiar to scholars. The "Uncle Will" quotation, she said, was contained in a volume of letters published in 1983.

Truman's attitudes toward race were shaped by his youth in Missouri. His grandparents had owned slaves; his mother was interned by Union troops during the Civil War and remained "violently unreconstructed" for the rest of her life. Young Harry developed "an abiding belief in white supremacy," Leuchtenburg said.

But, after succeeding Franklin D. Roosevelt, Truman rose above his prejudices. In 1946, when he was told of assaults on black World War II veterans in the South, he exclaimed, "My God! I had no idea it was as terrible as that. We've got to do something!"

The president appointed a committee to study civil-rights abuses and later supported the panel's call for anti-lynching and anti-poll-tax legislation. He also ordered the desegregation of the armed forces and became the first president to campaign in Harlem, in New York City. As a result, he was pilloried by his old Southern Democratic allies.

Dang, now we have to dig up Harry Truman too.

 

[Superman]

My God! I had no idea it was as terrible as that. We've got to do something!"

and Democrats have said that ever since.

 

[IndySteel]

and Democrats have said that ever since.

While secretly dressing up like trannies.

 

[Vader]

Almost nobody thought the flag was racist until recently when dems are trying to get attention away from the **** they are doing like lying about private email accounts. Gore, Hillary and Bill all used the confederate battle flag in their past campaigns. Did they think it was racist then? Nope but now they need something to ***** about. Anybody that thinks the flag is about slavery is either ignorant or being political.

 

[diver]

When I see someone here in PA displaying the flag, I think he/she is a dumbass. We were on the winning side, display the American flag.

 

[diver]

Almost nobody thought the flag was racist until recently when dems are trying to get attention away from the **** they are doing like lying about private email accounts. Gore, Hillary and Bill all used the confederate battle flag in their past campaigns. Did they think it was racist then? Nope but now they need something to ***** about. Anybody that thinks the flag is about slavery is either ignorant or being political.

Yea, but you can't separate it out. The war was about slavery, and the flag part of the war.

It is a damn shame we lose sight of some of the lessons of that war. To me the biggest one is that Southern elites, who wanted to keep their way of life going, got a whole bunch of poor farm kids to do their fighting for them. Then afterwards, the people who did the fighting and dying were no better off than they were before.

The elites continue this to this day. We can't have a secure border because, among other things, the elites want cheap labor. And who suffers? The working class that always has. During the writing of the Constitution, Benjamin Franklin stated how bad slavery would be for the states that wanted it because it would keep poor whites from getting employment, making money. This immigration mess is doing the same thing today to working class citizens of all races.

 

[Vader]

Yea, but you can't separate it out. The war was about slavery, and the flag part of the war.

It is a damn shame we lose sight of some of the lessons of that war. To me the biggest one is that Southern elites, who wanted to keep their way of life going, got a whole bunch of poor farm kids to do their fighting for them. Then afterwards, the people who did the fighting and dying were no better off than they were before.

The elites continue this to this day. We can't have a secure border because, among other things, the elites want cheap labor. And who suffers? The working class that always has. During the writing of the Constitution, Benjamin Franklin stated how bad slavery would be for the states that wanted it because it would keep poor whites from getting employment, making money. This immigration mess is doing the same thing today to working class citizens of all races.

So you can't separate it out then why did Hillary et el use it? Why did just a few weeks ago did it change?

Also if you can't separate that flag from slavery then why can you separate the American flag from slavery? This makes no sense and the only people that believe this **** are either ignorant or political. There is no way around that.

The lesson of the war you are forgetting is that states now have almost no rights. Slavery was a part of the war but nothing close to the main reason. Which is why slavery wasn't even outlawed in the north until AFTER the war. The EP was only for the south. What a bunch of hypocrites and blowhards. Lincoln was against slavery but he was more against losing the States to the confederation.

 

[Spike]

Only white people are racist. Southern white people especially. Everybody knows that.

Ethnic cleansing


NAACP: Let's 'Sand Blast' Confederate Carvings Off Georgia's Stone Mountain

The Atlanta chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People called Monday for the removal of the 90- by 190-foot carving of three Confederate leaders, Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson, from the side of Stone Mountain, television station WSB reported Tuesday.

“Those guys need to go. They can be sand-blasted off, or somebody could carefully remove a slab of that and auction it off to the highest bidder," NAACP Atlanta branch President Richard Rose told WSB.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...derate-removal

 

[diver]

So you can't separate it out then why did Hillary et el use it? Why did just a few weeks ago did it change?

Also if you can't separate that flag from slavery then why can you separate the American flag from slavery? This makes no sense and the only people that believe this **** are either ignorant or political. There is no way around that.

The lesson of the war you are forgetting is that states now have almost no rights. Slavery was a part of the war but nothing close to the main reason. Which is why slavery wasn't even outlawed in the north until AFTER the war. The EP was only for the south. What a bunch of hypocrites and blowhards. Lincoln was against slavery but he was more against losing the States to the confederation.

Let me rephrase. In some people's minds, you can never separate it out. They will look at it and always think slavery.

As to the cause of the war. There are no if ands or buts, the war was about slavery. To say otherwise is stupidity. In no way am I saying that the poor southern boy was fighting for slavery. The people who got him into the mess, the elite Southern planters, to them, the war was most assuredly about slavery. This isn't my opinion or something I read on the computer on About.com, or something. Read the South Carolina Declaration of Causes when they left the Union. It is mainly about slavery. Slavery is what drives everything else.

 

[Yinzerlyn]

Ethnic cleansing


NAACP: Let's 'Sand Blast' Confederate Carvings Off Georgia's Stone Mountain

The Atlanta chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People called Monday for the removal of the 90- by 190-foot carving of three Confederate leaders, Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson, from the side of Stone Mountain, television station WSB reported Tuesday.

“Those guys need to go. They can be sand-blasted off, or somebody could carefully remove a slab of that and auction it off to the highest bidder," NAACP Atlanta branch President Richard Rose told WSB.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...derate-removal

That will NEVER happen.