Chickillo, the unknown quality among our OLB pass rush.

[Wingman]

Which is it? You want to see young players instead of average/below average players? As I recall, Miller (young player) was replaced by Tomczak (average) after one start. A loss. Cowher responded to the media frenzy afterwards by saying the team "ïs defining roles" in regards to positions. Same thing happened with Bettis and Zeroue in the early 2000's when the offense philosophy changed. That decision was shown to be an error as history shows. You going to smash Cowher for it? Cowher was considered notorious for playing veterans over younger players on defense, because the scheme used was so difficult to pick up. I can only think of two off the top of my head...Darren Perry and Kendrell Bell. Bell, while being DRPOY, he didn't even make it through after his rookie contract. As for Thomas and Blake, yes both were average to below average, but who was capable to replace him? There were no rookies or UDFA that were even close to coach Mitch's recommendation. Walton was hurt, and Lyons was brought in for possible future backup considerations. Chickillo was a down lineman in college making the change to stand up LB, which he had never done before. He was no where near close to being ready because of his weight. As for Blake, WHO was available? Boykin, we now know, didn't have a grasp of the requirements of being an outside corner in this scheme, and later put in the slot. We had the cast of thousands in the FA who didn't show the coaches enough to feel confident to put them in there. Tomlin goes by what his position coaches are telling him.

Finally, who is saying they want Chickillo to fail? I don't, he's a throw back, has NFL pedigree....third generation too. I would love for him to be successful. This defense needs LB's, a lot of them. But temper your enthusiasm he was drafted where he was for a reason. Think before you type something.

James Harrison was a pick up after being cut from bmore and was cut here before making the team does that mean he could not be DPOY because of where he was drafted, there was a reason for that too. Players change after they get to the nfl some get better some do not. Big point for chickillo is he does not have to be much to become better than what is ahead of him. He is a second year guy that could make the leap. Jarvis has yet to impress. Dupree can be good he has lots of potential hopefully he heals well and gets back. Not picking on you I just do not see the big basis on draft location some guys just get drafted too high others fall through the cracks, it happens.

 

[stillwright]

James Harrison was a pick up after being cut from bmore and was cut here before making the team does that mean he could not be DPOY because of where he was drafted, there was a reason for that too. Players change after they get to the nfl some get better some do not. Big point for chickillo is he does not have to be much to become better than what is ahead of him. He is a second year guy that could make the leap. Jarvis has yet to impress. Dupree can be good he has lots of potential hopefully he heals well and gets back. Not picking on you I just do not see the big basis on draft location some guys just get drafted too high others fall through the cracks, it happens.

Do you really think Chick is better than JJ at this point? In your reference to Harrison it took him multiple years to be ready to play. That is why he was cut numerous times by a couple of teams. Just going by the last preseason game Chick could not hold the edge in the run game. Can he get better? I'm sure he can. That is the reason he is still on our team. Hopefully he will get some reps during games on known passing downs.

 

[Ike Kelly]

James Harrison was a pick up after being cut from bmore and was cut here before making the team does that mean he could not be DPOY because of where he was drafted, there was a reason for that too. Players change after they get to the nfl some get better some do not. Big point for chickillo is he does not have to be much to become better than what is ahead of him. He is a second year guy that could make the leap. Jarvis has yet to impress. Dupree can be good he has lots of potential hopefully he heals well and gets back. Not picking on you I just do not see the big basis on draft location some guys just get drafted too high others fall through the cracks, it happens.

Harrison was cut twice by Pit before making the club. He was even a NFL Europe Steeler assigned player. He was considered a late bloomer, until he learned the 3/4 stand technique from Porter and Haggans.

I never intimated a player's draft position as whether he will be better than others. But it does allow a player "more patience from the FO". They have to, because of the financial investment. How a player enters the league is not a consideration for offensive/defensive POY or league MVP even. If so, Kurt Warner wouldn't have one, being he was a street free agent. If you want to go way back, Unitas was a street free agent too. Cut by the Steelers no less.

I'm pulling for Chickillo, but he has a way to go to even being considered a top backup. If Dupree wasn't hurt, he would be the #3 OLB on both sides. But from what I've seen, he has the tangibles for the position and hopes he improves to be another player like Greene was. That in itself is a lot to ask for.

 

[Coach]

RE: Archer. The discussion wasn't about what round Archer was drafted, but why wasn't he benched to allow "younger" more "talented" players opportunities. As I indicated he was drafted for his 3rd down, scat back AND return abilities, for which he had a pedigree. Also, you blame Tomlin for the player, FYI, Todd Hayley wanted Archer as the 3rd down specialist a'la the offenses he ran at Arizona and KC. Coaching staff tried for two years to integrate him into the offense and return game, however his size/girth was considered to small to be effective. You don't give up on 3rd rounders unless you are Cleveland. And Wheaton was vying for the #2 and or slot WR position, so he was busy learning all three XYZ positions and eventually pushed Lance Moore off the roster.

Your opinion Jarvis Jones is a bad option, but the coaches have seemed to disagree in the past as he made plays, when he was in the game. Obviously not all sacks, but pressure in the form of FF, picks, incompletions. He's been given his notice, time to be consistent and available. If it doesn't happen, his second contract will be with someone else. In any case the point I am trying to make, is the coaches know more about the players than you ever will. So I take their professional observation with a little bit more premise than we laymen. I suppose Harrison would have never be preferred, following your mindset. How many times did it take him to stick?

RE: Cowher and the QB's. You are not out of context here with your comments but rather very inaccurate with it. First, O'Donnell, preceded Tomczak, Miller, Stewart and Graham. So your comparison is null and void. As for what choice Cowher had, as I've said, the offense philosophy dictated the QB as a game manager, not a game changer. Power running game was the staple. It controlled the clock, kept the defense off the field, opened up play action as well as anyone. With the exception of Graham and Miller, Cowher had playoff runs and AFC championship appearances because of his running game and defense. The QB wasn't the straw to stir the drink back then as it is now. Kordell, allowed Chan Gailey and later Mularkey the opportunity to use the spread. Then Maddox took the spread one step further and upset the balance. When Ben arrived, that balanced was brought back because of Whisenhunt's decision to keep the rookie in check to manage the game primarily, and school yard the offense on occasion.


For all that is holy, please think about what you are typing before putting it down and posting it. This link you posted, http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2016/01/04/antwon-breaking-all-the-wrong-records-at-cornerback/, is a independent writer's blog and the RECORDS you are referring to are PFF's own statistical record keeping, not the NFL's statistical history. "The Steelers cornerback Antwon Blake broke PFF records for yards allowed in coverage (1,074) and missed tackels (28) this year." I won't even further comment on their obvious lack of proofreaders for their twitter account.

By the way, missed tackles scoring is subjective, unless there is a standard used. Stats Inc. is the official statistics keeper for the NFL, since they use the standards for which BLESTO and all the other scouting services that clubs use in their evaluation process of collegiate and free agent players. So to answer your question, yes I review and do consider stats. In fact the Steelers are now to some degree using the Billy Ball model. But, understand that the numbers are but PART of the evaluation process. Owners and coaches know this, otherwise why have them. Matakevich probably would be considered DOA in the statistical evaluation at the combine, but was drafted in the 7th. Now he is backup to Shazier. In all honesty, I think Colbert and the scouting staff knew, and had the cat that ate the canary look on their faces after drafting him and seeing him at OTAs.

RE: Jarvis Jones. As I said, this is his put up or shut up year. Otherwise he will go by way of the Ziggy Hoods. I personally don't think he is buying what the coaching staff is asking him to do in regards to conditioning. But, that's his decision. Maybe if he followed Harrison's approach he could be more healthy and in turn on the field more often to try to make plays.

I only saw one player you listed (Chickillo) and I am encouraged to see what he does. I hope he pans out for the team. A throwback kind of player. Bryant was drafted as a WR, and not a return man. I don't even think he was considered an option because of his length. Tuit actually REPLACED Thomas as a starter in his second year. Almost un heard of in Coach Mitch's tenure. There are several players I am high on. Our rookie DBs mainly. Davis has the potential to me to be a breakout player to go with Mitchell. Cockrell, I watched while he was at Duke, and thought he was a solid and good risk coming out. I know the Steelers were looking at him. Glad they got him off waivers and think he could grow nicely into the position like Ike Taylor did.

And no I am not an attorney, but I have worked with them.

Ike,

1 ) Archer played at a small school and was a bad pick. He wasn't a good return man, that was obvious. Reggie Dunn, a rookie free agent a while back was a better return man in camp and the pre-season. He was cut too. End of conversation here.

2 ) The coaches have limited options at OLB. Harrison is 38. Dupree was a rookie last year and is currently on IR. Maybe that's why Jones is still starting, though if you watch his snaps counters are very low for a " starting player " Also I pointed out Jones is very weak at pressuring the QB, and rates last among those in the team that had enough rush attempts at OLB, and DE. Take the data at face value, or simply watch him failing to beat his man with speed or be strong enough to get off blocks. Drafted to rush the passer Jarvis Jones has been a dismal failure and injury prone player. There is no other way to look at it. He's pretty bad vs making plays vs the run as well.

3 ) As for Cowher winning with sub par QB's, that much is proven. Trying to go off tangent with timelines will not change the truth. Any coach that can go 10-6 with Mike Tomazck, 13-3 with Stewart, or 10-5-1 with Maddox is excellent as your margin of error was pretty thin.

4 ) Its hard to get everyone to agree on something in a busy message board, but I think 9 out of 10 posters agree Blake was very poor. You can not say him giving up record yardage relative to his peers, and missing a record amount of tackles relative to his peers isn't a huge indication of how poor his play is. If that's not enough, just trust your eyes! Or trust the team. He was not asked back.

Which brings us to Chickillo. I view him as an NFL bloodlines player, a 5-star athlete recruit, that was miscast at DL, and better suited for OLB in a 3-4 or 4 man front system on 3rd and long. With a year under his belt, he was a stand out in camp and did enough in the pre-season to warrant more snaps in the Season. If he proves to be better than Jones or Moats, it will be a sign that Tomlin was late to promote him. We'll see. He's getting his chance due to injuries.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Ike,

1 ) Archer played at a small school and was a bad pick. He wasn't a good return man, that was obvious. Reggie Dunn, a rookie free agent a while back was a better return man in camp and the pre-season. He was cut too. End of conversation here.

2 ) The coaches have limited options at OLB. Harrison is 38. Dupree was a rookie last year and is currently on IR. Maybe that's why Jones is still starting, though if you watch his snaps counters are very low for a " starting player " Also I pointed out Jones is very weak at pressuring the QB, and rates last among those in the team that had enough rush attempts at OLB, and DE. Take the data at face value, or simply watch him failing to beat his man with speed or be strong enough to get off blocks. Drafted to rush the passer Jarvis Jones has been a dismal failure and injury prone player. There is no other way to look at it. He's pretty bad vs making plays vs the run as well.

3 ) As for Cowher winning with sub par QB's, that much is proven. Trying to go off tangent with timelines will not change the truth. Any coach that can go 10-6 with Mike Tomazck, 13-3 with Stewart, or 10-5-1 with Maddox is excellent as your margin of error was pretty thin.

4 ) Its hard to get everyone to agree on something in a busy message board, but I think 9 out of 10 posters agree Blake was very poor. You can not say him giving up record yardage relative to his peers, and missing a record amount of tackles relative to his peers isn't a huge indication of how poor his play is. If that's not enough, just trust your eyes! Or trust the team. He was not asked back.

Which brings us to Chickillo. I view him as an NFL bloodlines player, a 5-star athlete recruit, that was miscast at DL, and better suited for OLB in a 3-4 or 4 man front system on 3rd and long. With a year under his belt, he was a stand out in camp and did enough in the pre-season to warrant more snaps in the Season. If he proves to be better than Jones or Moats, it will be a sign that Tomlin was late to promote him. We'll see. He's getting his chance due to injuries.

My discussion with you Coach about Archer as to whether he was/wasn't a bad pick. He isn't with the team now so the FO obviously moved on. But they did do their diligence to based on their investment in him. What I am disagreeing with you is YOUR observation that Archer should have been replaced during his stay, including Reggie Dunn, who as you stated yourself was a street free agent who got cut as well. Dunn was NOT a 3rd down back, nor had experience in performing that role. Archer was a triple role player, who had return pedigree. He was more valuable because of his skill set allowed him to play multiple positions under Haley's scheme. Dunn did not. How you can state Dunn had a better camp is beyond me, because you don't have access to OTA/and camp videotape of ALL practices, even those closed to the public and media. The liner notes show Archer was being provided every opportunity for his mult-faceted talent base. Dunn only had one, return skills. He had no chance to make it with the WR corp as it was. Maybe as a PS, but I don't even think he made it then. So as I indicated before, being a draft pick, 3rd round whether it was an unsuccessful one at that, afforded Archer more opportunities than who you have mentioned. So now the conversation about this has ended. Your viewpoint is based on your opinion, which is fine. But it doesn't mean you are right. I've attempted to explain why Archer was given the opportunities by the FO as he had.

Currently we have limited options at OLB, because of Dupree's injury. As I see Jones is the starting ROLB on the depth chart. Harrison is the backup because of his age and snap count to preserve him later in the year. I am not going to refute he has underperformed as a 1st rounder, but as documented, he has been injured. He has had splash plays when he has been in the line up. Taking data at face value? If you are referring to PFF data....I defer to the true statistical analysis as examined by the coaches. They feel he should be starting and have let it known he better perform this year or he won't be given a new contract. Dismal failure in YOUR eyes, but you don't have all the data that coaching staff pours through. I am not an Jones apologist, but I will stick up for the coaches. They know what they are doing. Better than you, if you can believe it.

Tangent timelines/Sub par QBs.....I have already said, your listing of QB's were in the wrong order of the team timestream and that during that period, the QB wasn't a focal point under Cowher anyway. However, while Tomczak wasn't extraordinary by any means, he did what the coordinator told him too. Manage the game. Stewart and Maddox was Sub Par? They were league recognized by pro-bowls or team MVPs....I hardly consider that as sub par considering who were playing QBs at the same time. So I ask anyone else if I was off tangent with the truth.

I never said Blake was a solid performer for the DB corp last year, as he was progressively removed from the starting role and became a situational player. He was also playing hurt the entire year, but I don't give that as any consolation of his sub-par play. More of the fact Cockrell was playing better, and subsequently replaced him. Blake did have a solid year in 2014 considering all those DBs. we lost. If you are referring to PFF stats in record yardage relative to his peers, then I disagree, because PFF while some stand by it religiously I consider just another unsupported fan blog no different from SI, Sporting News, Athlons or Lindy's. They sell their product. If they had all the same factual data and presented it on the same standard (as you should to have a viable reading of the statistical values) then they wouldn't sell much, because they would all pretty much mirror each other. So they have to import some "opinionated observations" to stand out for their patrons.

Your second sentence of Chickillo is pretty accurate, but after that, hardly. A standout in camp? If so, he would have bypassed Moats, who has quietly outplayed him....and both Jones and Dupree. Believe me I am high on #56, hope he makes the jump this year. He has the tangibles to be a good one, hopefully the lighbulb comes all the way on. And who knows, you may get your wish and he supplants Moats and Jones....it will be another coup for Colbert and Tomlin...or rather Butler since he was the one who pitched him to the scouts. FYI...how many times does this need to be repeated. You sound like Tomlin just makes stuff up as he goes. He uses his coaching staff to make informed decisions. He has had a HOF DCoord, he currently has three former players on his staff, One HOF, two Pro-Bowlers and a guy who played a dozen years and was a backers coach for a long time under LeBeau. Tomlin isn't stupid he hired these guys, he listens to his position coaches and coordinators. If they tell him a player is/isn't ready then he considers it.