Hey Coach I went in and edited should be good now. Thanks for the heads up. Surprised no one else ever caught before you. It's been my sig for awhile now. Guess no one is as smart as you Coach
Chickillo, the unknown quality among our OLB pass rush.
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So when there was a run play you just looked away? You did notice the bad play Burns made in run support though right? Not so much in the Chick run support area. Gotcha. At this stage Chick should only see the field as a situational pass rusher. He is a major liability in the run support area. That's just the eye test though.
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No, they are laughing at you. I dare you to try and type out the name of the championship game and post it, something that has been a SteelerNation tradition since the beginning...it's ok, I'll wait
You are wrong, what we want is for you to shut up about him in MULTIPLE THREADS. We get that he's your flavor of the month, we get that you're high on him (and apparently a cocktail of other recreational drugs), what we don't get is why you have to drag it into thread after thread after thread, or start multiple threads on the same topic over and over and over again. You are not as smart as you think you are "coach"
Lol.. wow, coach... SB is automatically flipped because we don't say that word around here. Dave put forth that rule years ago . It hadn't been reset to flip the word until a month or so ago when I changed it..
Try to type p-r-o-l-l-y also.. without the dashes
Try to type p-r-o-l-l-y also.. without the dashes
............................
Coach said:
LMAO I will change the sig tomorrow evening just got to get a full days worth out of this one. ******* CLASSIC
Chick will be better than Jarvis. Just sayin.....just sayin.....
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I hope one of them steps and becomes a sack machine. I'm not convinced on Chick yet off a preseason game but am willing to wait/watch and see. I guess JJ hasn't set the bar that high though. So you may be right.
Exactly I hope one of them step up because the last thing I want to do is be forced to take another pass rusher in next year's draft.
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I did not know that. I wasn't here when he changed it.
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Which is it? You want to see young players instead of average/below average players? As I recall, Miller (young player) was replaced by Tomczak (average) after one start. A loss. Cowher responded to the media frenzy afterwards by saying the team "ïs defining roles" in regards to positions. Same thing happened with Bettis and Zeroue in the early 2000's when the offense philosophy changed. That decision was shown to be an error as history shows. You going to smash Cowher for it? Cowher was considered notorious for playing veterans over younger players on defense, because the scheme used was so difficult to pick up. I can only think of two off the top of my head...Darren Perry and Kendrell Bell. Bell, while being DRPOY, he didn't even make it through after his rookie contract. As for Thomas and Blake, yes both were average to below average, but who was capable to replace him? There were no rookies or UDFA that were even close to coach Mitch's recommendation. Walton was hurt, and Lyons was brought in for possible future backup considerations. Chickillo was a down lineman in college making the change to stand up LB, which he had never done before. He was no where near close to being ready because of his weight. As for Blake, WHO was available? Boykin, we now know, didn't have a grasp of the requirements of being an outside corner in this scheme, and later put in the slot. We had the cast of thousands in the FA who didn't show the coaches enough to feel confident to put them in there. Tomlin goes by what his position coaches are telling him.
Finally, who is saying they want Chickillo to fail? I don't, he's a throw back, has NFL pedigree....third generation too. I would love for him to be successful. This defense needs LB's, a lot of them. But temper your enthusiasm he was drafted where he was for a reason. Think before you type something.
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1 ) I want to see any young player who flashed ability in camp or the pre-season take away some of the below average veteran's snaps.
2 ) Jim Miller was nothing but average as a QB and didn't flash much talent. When Tommy Maddox went down, Cowher could have traded for a QB...he went with Ben as a rookie.
3 ) Blake set records for yardage given up. I think there were better options. Tomlin stuck with the worst of all time. Thomas was pretty bad too. There were other options.
4 ) Many on this board understand Jarvis Jones was a bad 1st round pick. Some still defend him. And they are comical in responses. I think a few of Jones defenders would rather see Jones do much better than Chickillo. The Steelers did not pick up the option on Jones.
5 ) I never said Chikillo is going to be good, the title of the thread sums it up. He's our only unkown among the healthy players at OLB...and the pass rush needs help.
Davis and Burns flashed some ability, so did Big Red, and Gravedigger. I'm looking forward to the young players getting hats!
on #3, Blake's playing time did reduce as the season progressed.
on #3, Blake's playing time did reduce as the season progressed.
Meh until chick proves he can play on the field im referring to him as GWH... He sure does get a lot of love for a low rounder who has proved nothing yet lol
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1. What do you think the coaching staff has done the last several years? They use Pre-Season games to see what they have with rookies and FA. They barely play their 1st team 4 quarters during the entire pre-season period. One reason for their low winning percentage in preseason.
2. Interesting, Miller was a 3rd year player to start the season as the starting QB. He didn't finish the first game as he was replaced by Tomczak. But later started for Chicago for 3 or 4 years. He sucked enough to be considered a starter later on another team, while the Kordell era was beginning. He was an average QB, statistically, but he still started at least two dozen games.
3. Please provide a link to validate your statements. You are painting with a very broad stroke of the brush on this one. Steelers scheme for corners isn't press, its keep the ball in front of you and tackle the catch or collapse on the run. YOU think they had better options, but the position coaches apparently didn't. Sorry, I can question anyone, but I recognize when someone's profession is involved, those who knows the business probably knows more than I do since its not my profession. As Cope pointed out, Blake's snaps decreased progressively during the season.
4. Jarvis Jones, may end up being just a average player. He's been hurt often and doesn't appear to buy into what the coaching staff wants. But he has this year to show something. Having said that, Colbert has had around 15-16 drafts and I can on the top of my head pick only one or two 1st round players who didn't pan out as above average. Jarvis is looking as one, and Ziggy Hood was the other, even though he was a serviceable DLineman. so 2 1st rounders in 16 drafts.....IMO those are pretty good numbers. There are only a handful of franchises that can match that.
5. Your words "I could be wrong here, but I get the hunch a few posters want Chickillo to fail, just to say I was wrong, and by doing that are anti-Steeler. Me? I want to win. I'll always root for the younger player who flashes the ability to replace a bad starting player who costs more on the cap. Every single time."
Then you say " I never said Chickillo is going to be good "......You opine some on the board wants Chickillo to fail just to say you are wrong (about being a quality player), but you also say you never said Chickillo will be good....So which is it? Please, not burying you here, just trying to help you understand to think about what you are going to say before enlightening us.
You cannot give Reputation to the same post twice.(Ike Kelly)
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1. What do you think the coaching staff has done the last several years? They use Pre-Season games to see what they have with rookies and FA. They barely play their 1st team 4 quarters during the entire pre-season period. One reason for their low winning percentage in preseason.
[COLOR=""]
>>> Coach says: I think the coaching staff has made a few mistakes when it comes to handling and promoting younger players. For openers, Wheaton was a better return man than Archer.
I saw Bryant, who was reported to have good practices sit out games. Why not play him and sit Archer? Bryant was impressive in his debut. Hindsight stuff. Tuitt based on raw ability was better than Thomas. Thomas was really struggling. Why not play Tuitt a bit more? These are three examples from not long ago. Fast forward to the 2016 Season, Chickillo has had a better camp than Jones, who is below average by the standards of his positon in just about ever measurable stat. [/COLOR]
2. Interesting, Miller was a 3rd year player to start the season as the starting QB. He didn't finish the first game as he was replaced by Tomczak. But later started for Chicago for 3 or 4 years. He sucked enough to be considered a starter later on another team, while the Kordell era was beginning. He was an average QB, statistically, but he still started at least two dozen games.
>>>Coach says: Part of the point was Cowher could win 10 or more games with average or below average QB's starting a season. Pretty remarkable.
Stewart_Tomazack_Miller_Graham...you get the point! We both used the word average to describe Miller. Miller started just one game for the Steelers, he lost the game and threw for just 123 yards. His best playing days were with Chicago. But back to the point, when Maddox went down Cowher went with a rookie QB. It was the right choice.
3. Please provide a link to validate your statements. You are painting with a very broad stroke of the brush on this one. Steelers scheme for corners isn't press, its keep the ball in front of you and tackle the catch or collapse on the run. YOU think they had better options, but the position coaches apparently didn't. Sorry, I can question anyone, but I recognize when someone's profession is involved, those who knows the business probably knows more than I do since its not my profession. As Cope pointed out, Blake's snaps decreased progressively during the season.
>>> Coach says : With pleaure.
" The Steelers cornerback Antwon Blake broke PFF records for yards allowed in coverage (1,074) and missed tackles (28) this year."
OUCH.
http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2016/01/04/antwon-breaking-all-the-wrong-records-at-cornerback/
4. Jarvis Jones, may end up being just a average player. He's been hurt often and doesn't appear to buy into what the coaching staff wants. But he has this year to show something. Having said that, Colbert has had around 15-16 drafts and I can on the top of my head pick only one or two 1st round players who didn't pan out as above average. Jarvis is looking as one, and Ziggy Hood was the other, even though he was a serviceable DLineman. so 2 1st rounders in 16 drafts.....IMO those are pretty good numbers. There are only a handful of franchises that can match that.
>>> Coach says: I think Jarvis is below average and there are threads where I go into detail as to why. Colbert wasn't paramount to this conversation, but he missed on more than one first round pick. He loved Rivers and if Rivers and Ben were on the board...I think there is some evidence Colbert would have taken Rivers.
Hood, and Jones are the ones your thinking of that did not pan out. I'd add Simmons, who was nothing but an average starting guard. Not the best way to spend your first round pick! Mendenhall had a good year, but he was a disappointment in the long run. Wouldn't you agree?
5. Your words "I could be wrong here, but I get the hunch a few posters want Chickillo to fail, just to say I was wrong, and by doing that are anti-Steeler. Me? I want to win. I'll always root for the younger player who flashes the ability to replace a bad starting player who costs more on the cap. Every single time."
Then you say " I never said Chickillo is going to be good "......You opine some on the board wants Chickillo to fail just to say you are wrong (about being a quality player), but you also say you never said Chickillo will be good....So which is it? Please, not burying you here, just trying to help you understand to think about what you are going to say before enlightening us.
>>> Coach says: Let's use the words I said. I said Chick had a good camp and flashed ability in the pre-season. To be a good player, you need to prove it during the season. To prove it, you need chances! Chick hasn't been given enough chances.
I also said I want a younger player is out playing a below average starting veteran in camp and the pre-season getting some of below average veteran's opportunities on the field. When this happens the coaches need to give the younger player more playing time during the regular season,
As for those who might point out Chickillo was nothing but hype, we'll see. If he does poorly to use an example a poster like Antdrewjosh chime in to say HA, you were wrong , then essentially what I say is correct. Antrdrejosh was upset I when felt Bell was a drug risk. He has been wrong on film a few times.
Welcome to the board Ike Kelly.
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Coach you are hilarious I'm on vacation so I won't get into it with you but you are funny. Ego the size of Jupiter
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Enjoy your vacation. The data on the reply was fine.
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For brevity...I am responding by the numerical slot of the initial comments. And again....maybe you don't follow, but please think about what you are going to comment before typing it up and posting. You have problems with consistency when explaining your train of thought.
1. Archer, was a 3rd round pick. His purpose was for scat back and return man. In his second and third year he was given opportunities (being a young guy as you say). Wheaton was a rookie picked 3rd round one year later as a WR. Not return man. Archer was given chances and coaching staff moved on because of his stature wasn't built for the pro game. Wheaton was a stop gap measure and was no better than anyone else in his opportunities...hence the experiments that followed with FA. So, you say you want to give the rookies/younger guys chances, but you quit on young guy Archer. Coach, you can't have it both ways when propping up/down players. You have to be consistent with your analogies or your comments are scattershot.
2. Tomzcak, Kordell and Maddox had superior running games when they won 10 games or more. Ball control/establish the run was bread and butter under Cowher. It was the same in Ben's early years. Until the offense was turned over to Ben instead of the RBs. Below average QBs....think Coach, gheez. Tomczak was an established veteran (for stability), Kordell was a Pro Bowler, and Steeler MVP (I think). Maddox was comeback player of the year, after being picked up off the street. Won a lot of games with the run offense and later with the spread formations opening up.
3. Pro Football Focus is one of a thousand "OPINIONATED" sites that uses statistics to quantify their grades of players. Forget about the fact that statistics can be orchestrated in any format to achieve a theoretical summation. They are no different that the draft prognosticators using prior year data to support their conclusions (which are usually wrong).
These are the days I wish TMC was back, because he could elucidate the ""football data" much more intelligently than I ever could and explain to you why PFF, like the others are all guess work based on opinionated theory of statistics. Which by the way, reviewing the statistics is subjective unless all denominators are followed by ALL sites that uses the same data. So you aren't "ouch"ing anyone.
4. I never said Jones or Ziggy didn't pan out. Jury is still out on Jarvis. He's made splash plays when he has been in. But he apparently can't stay healthy. Sacks and pressure to the QB will be his measuring stick. But he also has to have gap control and cover responsibilities in this defense. Ziggy was a solid player, not dominant, but solid/serviceable player. Kendall Simmons? Average....your opinion doesn't fit the "facts" as you say. He has 2 rings. Played in a dozen playoff games. His career ended because of health (Diabetes). Lest not forget, he was on the same line as All-Pros Hartings and Faneca through much of his career. What about those linemen for Dallas who played with Larry Allen during the 90's. Guess they were average too..yet they ran the crap out of the ball with Smith. Just like we did with Bettis. Mendenhall, was a good solid RB. His production was above average until he got hurt, and then his passion for the game apparently wavered.
As for welcoming me to the board....I have been hear since at 98 at least. When Diamond Dave ruled all and all the other colorful characters who were members have since moved on...so I am no newbie as my nomenclature indicates. I just only comment and respond when necessary. Thanks for your sincere recognition though.
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1 ) Archer was a joke of a pick in round 3. You could get a guy like this in round 7 or as a rookie free agent. It was obvious Archer wasn't very good in the pre-season as a return man, and IMO he should have been removed from kickoff duties before he was. This was Tomlin's call, and a bad one. At no point, did Archer flash much ability in the return game! So its the opposite of what I'm trying to say. A rookie who did not impress took the job of a guy ( Wheaton ) who did a better job in that season. As for my coments, the context of the thread can make them look slightly diffrent, but I've been very clear I think Jones is a bad option, and Chickillo is either as good or better.
2 ) What choice did Cowher have but to run the ball and play defense with Tomzack, Stewart, Miller, and Graham? He had a bad group of QB's. He coached and won with a thin margin of error, HOWEVER when O'Donnell came the Steelers started to pass a bit more. If any of these guys were on the 2016 Steelers, we would not be talking playoffs. Well, maybe with O'Donnell we would have a shot. Ben means so much to this team. Without him, Brown was reduced to ordinary. How has Wallace done without Ben? Wasn't Washington decent with Ben? See my point, the QB makes the WR, not the other way around, and Tomlin has one of the best three in the game.
3 ) Blake sucked. The link showed it. If you set a record for missed tackles and yads given up....case closed here. When you say
I must disagree, when you are the very worst in some areas relative to your pears, you are not very good. Quite the opposite. I take it you won't ever use stats?
TMC was a good guy. We had debates on Rivers ( I felt he would be good, TMC felt he would not last in the NFL ), and while his foundation was often good, his accuracy when disagreeing with me was not. If you're reading this TMC please come back. He was a top poster.
4) How long is the jury still out on Jarvis Jones? It has been three years, isn't that enough in a league where the average career is about 4 years?
5 ) Ah, a 1998 guy. Your post count is too low. I think most agree you should post more often.
-Coach
PS: I didn't see much of a reply to the examples I listed of young players with potential sitting on the bench and not getting a chance over clearly bad to average veterans. I did list a few examples. By chance are you a lawyer by trade?
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I'm soo disappointed, you had a perfectly good chance to use "Uranas" instead.... lol
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RE: Archer. The discussion wasn't about what round Archer was drafted, but why wasn't he benched to allow "younger" more "talented" players opportunities. As I indicated he was drafted for his 3rd down, scat back AND return abilities, for which he had a pedigree. Also, you blame Tomlin for the player, FYI, Todd Hayley wanted Archer as the 3rd down specialist a'la the offenses he ran at Arizona and KC. Coaching staff tried for two years to integrate him into the offense and return game, however his size/girth was considered to small to be effective. You don't give up on 3rd rounders unless you are Cleveland. And Wheaton was vying for the #2 and or slot WR position, so he was busy learning all three XYZ positions and eventually pushed Lance Moore off the roster.
Your opinion Jarvis Jones is a bad option, but the coaches have seemed to disagree in the past as he made plays, when he was in the game. Obviously not all sacks, but pressure in the form of FF, picks, incompletions. He's been given his notice, time to be consistent and available. If it doesn't happen, his second contract will be with someone else. In any case the point I am trying to make, is the coaches know more about the players than you ever will. So I take their professional observation with a little bit more premise than we laymen. I suppose Harrison would have never be preferred, following your mindset. How many times did it take him to stick?
RE: Cowher and the QB's. You are not out of context here with your comments but rather very inaccurate with it. First, O'Donnell, preceded Tomczak, Miller, Stewart and Graham. So your comparison is null and void. As for what choice Cowher had, as I've said, the offense philosophy dictated the QB as a game manager, not a game changer. Power running game was the staple. It controlled the clock, kept the defense off the field, opened up play action as well as anyone. With the exception of Graham and Miller, Cowher had playoff runs and AFC championship appearances because of his running game and defense. The QB wasn't the straw to stir the drink back then as it is now. Kordell, allowed Chan Gailey and later Mularkey the opportunity to use the spread. Then Maddox took the spread one step further and upset the balance. When Ben arrived, that balanced was brought back because of Whisenhunt's decision to keep the rookie in check to manage the game primarily, and school yard the offense on occasion.
For all that is holy, please think about what you are typing before putting it down and posting it. This link you posted, http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2016/01/04/antwon-breaking-all-the-wrong-records-at-cornerback/, is a independent writer's blog and the RECORDS you are referring to are PFF's own statistical record keeping, not the NFL's statistical history. "The Steelers cornerback Antwon Blake broke PFF records for yards allowed in coverage (1,074) and missed tackels (28) this year." I won't even further comment on their obvious lack of proofreaders for their twitter account.
By the way, missed tackles scoring is subjective, unless there is a standard used. Stats Inc. is the official statistics keeper for the NFL, since they use the standards for which BLESTO and all the other scouting services that clubs use in their evaluation process of collegiate and free agent players. So to answer your question, yes I review and do consider stats. In fact the Steelers are now to some degree using the Billy Ball model. But, understand that the numbers are but PART of the evaluation process. Owners and coaches know this, otherwise why have them. Matakevich probably would be considered DOA in the statistical evaluation at the combine, but was drafted in the 7th. Now he is backup to Shazier. In all honesty, I think Colbert and the scouting staff knew, and had the cat that ate the canary look on their faces after drafting him and seeing him at OTAs.
RE: Jarvis Jones. As I said, this is his put up or shut up year. Otherwise he will go by way of the Ziggy Hoods. I personally don't think he is buying what the coaching staff is asking him to do in regards to conditioning. But, that's his decision. Maybe if he followed Harrison's approach he could be more healthy and in turn on the field more often to try to make plays.
I only saw one player you listed (Chickillo) and I am encouraged to see what he does. I hope he pans out for the team. A throwback kind of player. Bryant was drafted as a WR, and not a return man. I don't even think he was considered an option because of his length. Tuit actually REPLACED Thomas as a starter in his second year. Almost un heard of in Coach Mitch's tenure. There are several players I am high on. Our rookie DBs mainly. Davis has the potential to me to be a breakout player to go with Mitchell. Cockrell, I watched while he was at Duke, and thought he was a solid and good risk coming out. I know the Steelers were looking at him. Glad they got him off waivers and think he could grow nicely into the position like Ike Taylor did.
And no I am not an attorney, but I have worked with them.
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