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Covid Vaccine

oneforthebus said:
They've also caused a lot of mistrust in the medical community and in other very necessary and effective vaccines.
Click to expand...

Oh the mistrust goes well beyond that. Not just a huge loss in trust for the medical community, but world-wide trust in Government fell off of a cliff. All of Government. Global and national agencies. The media. All have suffered trust lost

Rightfully.
 
Tim Steelersfan said:
There you go putting words in my mouth again. Please point to where I have said protection only means 100% chance of no infection?

And you're diverting from posting that article, one that further promotes the "get the vaccine, you won't get Covid narrative" by directly implying so. I'll keep re-pasting it. The average person on the street reads this and believes the vax will keep them from getting Covid (or minimum, severely reduce that risk). Both of which are false.

"It is a myth that the COVID-19 vaccine weakens the immune system. After someone receives a vaccine, their immune system is better equipped to protect against subsequent infections."

Of course you'll refuse to admit this is misleading information.
Click to expand...
It didn't mislead me at all. Maybe it misled you. I understand perfectly what it means. "Their immune system is better equipped to protect against subsequent infections". It doesn't say "their immune system will prevent them from getting infected". It says it's "better equipped" to protect them against infection. It's better equipped to fight off that infection and keep it from becoming severe illness or death. Not perfectly equipped, but better equipped.

Certainly you can interpret it any way you like but I interpreted it the way I am stating and therefore find it to be not misleading at all.
 
Tim Steelersfan said:
Oh the mistrust goes well beyond that. Not just a huge loss in trust for the medical community, but world-wide trust in Government fell off of a cliff. All of Government. Global and national agencies. The media. All have suffered trust lost

Rightfully.
Click to expand...
I agree. And the abundance of anti-vax misinformation has certainly not helped the situation.
 
oneforthebus said:
It didn't mislead me at all. Maybe it misled you. I understand perfectly what it means. "Their immune system is better equipped to protect against subsequent infections". It doesn't say "their immune system will prevent them from getting infected". It says it's "better equipped" to protect them against infection. It's better equipped to fight off that infection and keep it from becoming severe illness or death. Not perfectly equipped, but better equipped.

Certainly you can interpret it any way you like but I interpreted it the way I am stating and therefore find it to be not misleading at all.
Click to expand...
why do some folks get red arms when they get the Covid shot? Why do some folks get flu-like symptoms after a flu shot?
 
Confluence said:
why do some folks get red arms when they get the Covid shot? Why do some folks get flu-like symptoms after a flu shot?
Click to expand...
Why do birds suddenly appear
Every time you are near?
 
Booted said:
Why do birds suddenly appear
Every time you are near?
Click to expand...
they sprinkled moon dust in your hair of gold
And starlight in your eyes of blue
 
Confluence said:
they sprinkled moon dust in your hair of gold
And starlight in your eyes of blue
Click to expand...
The Angels had a plan for me.
I disappointed them.
 
So, if you were asking what some Moderna science-y folks wanted to publish in the open, public domain, here is a new "paper":


Abstract​

mRNA formulated with lipid nanoparticles is a transformative technology that has enabled the rapid development and administration of billions of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) vaccine doses worldwide. However, avoiding unacceptable toxicity with mRNA drugs and vaccines presents challenges. Lipid nanoparticle structural components, production methods, route of administration and proteins produced from complexed mRNAs all present toxicity concerns. Here, we discuss these concerns, specifically how cell tropism and tissue distribution of mRNA and lipid nanoparticles can lead to toxicity, and their possible reactogenicity. We focus on adverse events from mRNA applications for protein replacement and gene editing therapies as well as vaccines, tracing common biochemical and cellular pathways. The potential and limitations of existing models and tools used to screen for on-target efficacy and de-risk off-target toxicity, including in vivo and next-generation in vitro models, are also discussed.
 
oneforthebus said:
It didn't mislead me at all. Maybe it misled you. I understand perfectly what it means. "Their immune system is better equipped to protect against subsequent infections". It doesn't say "their immune system will prevent them from getting infected". It says it's "better equipped" to protect them against infection. It's better equipped to fight off that infection and keep it from becoming severe illness or death. Not perfectly equipped, but better equipped.

Certainly you can interpret it any way you like but I interpreted it the way I am stating and therefore find it to be not misleading at all.
Click to expand...

It certainly does intentionally mislead, given the way it's written. What phrase is in the sentence preceding the latter?

"It is a myth that the COVID-19 vaccine weakens the immune system."

In the very next sentence, COVID-19 is missing prior to the word vaccine. Subtle. Intentional. Misleading.

"After someone receives a vaccine, their immune system is better equipped to protect against subsequent infections."

The author knew what he was doing and props to him, because it's actually deviously creative.

Because all other vaccines better equip someone against subsequent infections, the Covid vaccine therefore must too. That's his argument. He never states the Covid vaccine better protects you against subsequent infections. It's simply because "all vaccines do", the Covid vaccine therefore must also.

Which is really dangerous to infer or state, given that the vaccine technologies are totally different, etc.

That's propaganda. It's well written and it's intentionally deceptive.

And, as we've seen, the vaccines really don't appear to better protect the vaxed against reinfection, so.
 
oneforthebus said:
I agree. And the abundance of anti-vax misinformation has certainly not helped the situation.
Click to expand...

Agreed on the misinformation (like if you get the vax, you won't get the virus) - the vast majority of which came from the WHO, the White House, the CDC, ABC, MSNBC, NBC, etc for years.

But of course that will be flavored as "we didn't know what we didn't know then."

Our generation will be laughed at and ridiculed over our handling of this "epidemic" for generations. We bought and accepted it all. And gave up so much in the process.
 
Tim Steelersfan said:
It certainly does intentionally mislead, given the way it's written. What phrase is in the sentence preceding the latter?

"It is a myth that the COVID-19 vaccine weakens the immune system."

In the very next sentence, COVID-19 is missing prior to the word vaccine. Subtle. Intentional. Misleading.

"After someone receives a vaccine, their immune system is better equipped to protect against subsequent infections."

The author knew what he was doing and props to him, because it's actually deviously creative.

Because all other vaccines better equip someone against subsequent infections, the Covid vaccine therefore must too. That's his argument. He never states the Covid vaccine better protects you against subsequent infections. It's simply because "all vaccines do", the Covid vaccine therefore must also.

Which is really dangerous to infer or state, given that the vaccine technologies are totally different, etc.

That's propaganda. It's well written and it's intentionally deceptive.

And, as we've seen, the vaccines really don't appear to better protect the vaxed against reinfection, so.
Click to expand...
Plus the mistake in the original line. The vaccine weaken the immune system by causing it to react to a foreign substance. This reaction, usually, leads to a strengthened immune system, BUT NOT BEFORE the mechanism of action attacks the immune system to produce a response.

Not everyone reacts to that forced attack on the immune system well, regardless of vaccine. But most safe vaccines have been tested for years for this, with very few serious adverse events triggered by the vaccines initial attack on the immune system.

The mRNA covid shots were not tested like this and it is clear that the companies that did the initial clinical testing moved the goalposts repeatedly. Did this rise to fraud? I am not expert to tell, but it sure as hell smells like fraud.
 
Confluence said:
why do some folks get red arms when they get the Covid shot? Why do some folks get flu-like symptoms after a flu shot?
Click to expand...
Vaccines provoke an immune response. That does not mean they are “weakening the immune system”.
 
oneforthebus said:
Vaccines provoke an immune response. That does not mean they are “weakening the immune system”.
Click to expand...
The response from the immune system is from a scaled attack on the.......immune system.
 
Confluence said:
However, avoiding unacceptable toxicity with mRNA drugs and vaccines presents challenges. Lipid nanoparticle structural components, production methods, route of administration and proteins produced from complexed mRNAs all present toxicity concerns.
Click to expand...

That's comforting.
 
Confluence said:
Plus the mistake in the original line. The vaccine weaken the immune system by causing it to react to a foreign substance. This reaction, usually, leads to a strengthened immune system, BUT NOT BEFORE the mechanism of action attacks the immune system to produce a response.
Click to expand...

Correct, also deviously deceptive. The author "justifies" the safety of the vaccines by 'establishing' the Covid vaxes are just like every other vax ever, ever and were tested in the same way and have the same underlying technology.

But funny, to your point, how he glosses over that very point. Literally vaccines do weaken you, before they (usually) subsequently strengthen you.

Not only have I had all the vaccines (except these Covid shots), but I took allergy shots weekly for 5 or 6 years. Same concept.
 
Confluence said:
The response from the immune system is from a scaled attack on the.......immune system.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say "attack" so much as "provoke a response from". That is how most vaccines work. The whole point of an immune system is to fight off invaders. The point of vaccines is to provoke the immune system to fight off a weaker and relatively benign version of something so that it immediately recognizes and is more prepared to fight off the real thing. That's why novel viruses are so dangerous, because the world's immune systems have no reference point for them. I'm not sure what your point is.
 
oneforthebus said:
I wouldn't say "attack" so much as "provoke a response from". That is how most vaccines work. The whole point of an immune system is to fight off invaders. The point of vaccines is to provoke the immune system to fight off a weaker and relatively benign version of something so that it immediately recognizes and is more prepared to fight off the real thing. That's why novel viruses are so dangerous, because the world's immune systems have no reference point for them. I'm not sure what your point is.
Click to expand...
Doesn't really matter how you, or I would say anything. I actually understand far more about immune responses and clinical trials than you obviously think.

The mRNA shots cause more damage, in some people, and from certain lots, than is acceptable. This was evident in pFizer's initial clinical studies (you posted the link) where anyone can read through the HUNDREDS of revisions they made, over time, to change the "study" over 2 years into something un-intelligible. Along the way, they just canceled the control group. Disingenuous leading to unnecessary deaths; courts will decide if fraud occurred.

Many vaccines are very good for public health; that is clear, even if they damage the few. But these Covid shots are not like that because they damage way-more-than-few.

If you really wanted to learn the fuckery, do some looking yourself (your link for starters) and stop accepting the spoonfed vaccine industry dogma, or the shiny/happy talking points that those lobbying with non-experts use.
 
Confluence said:
Doesn't really matter how you, or I would say anything. I actually understand far more about immune responses and clinical trials than you obviously think.

The mRNA shots cause more damage, in some people, and from certain lots, than is acceptable. This was evident in pFizer's initial clinical studies (you posted the link) where anyone can read through the HUNDREDS of revisions they made, over time, to change the "study" over 2 years into something un-intelligible. Along the way, they just canceled the control group. Disingenuous leading to unnecessary deaths; courts will decide if fraud occurred.

Many vaccines are very good for public health; that is clear, even if they damage the few. But these Covid shots are not like that because they damage way-more-than-few.

If you really wanted to learn the fuckery, do some looking yourself (your link for starters) and stop accepting the spoonfed vaccine industry dogma, or the shiny/happy talking points that those lobbying with non-experts use.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the lecture none of which has anything to do with the question you asked me or my answer.
 
Interested in @Confluence 's thoughts on this. May Florida prevail again.


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