Covid Vaccine

[madinsomniac]

So basically subtract the initial immune and natural immunity numbers from the vaccinated numbers and while there is a slight advantage to vaccination its not really what they are selling it as… this is a money grab… hell the pfizer booster shots are 100% proof of that… they are trying to tie them on to the non mrna shots and have had several quick high profile deaths probably because of it… it’s irresponsible to mix medications without long term studies first… this is getting imbecilic….

if you want the mrna stuff, great… but lets not act like they are tried and true science yet… it’s theoretical science being tested widespread because politically charged fools run the world…

 

[SteelChip]

Another year and a half before the house flips back. Hopefully the senate flip too. Then they can work on taking back the White House. This regime and the BidenVirus is ******* up all the gains under Trump.

I with ya Hines.... BUT......I am not getting my hopes set too high either.

“My response to that line of thinking is to remind such optimists that Republicans had control of Congress—and the presidency—for several years, and essentially, despite some line cracks in the Deep State behemoth due to Donald Trump, things continued to get worse, the managerial government continued to grow in power, and did its best (with many Republicans in tow), eventually successfully, to eject the Trumpster from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. The administrative elites control education, control immigration policy (with GOP collaboration), control our media and entertainment, and dominate most of the levels of our government; and their reach and control expand by the day.”

The End of America? Hope Amidst the Ruins

I have a good friend who continually asks me what I think are the prospects for sensible, conservative—that is, normal—folks in these parlous times, what I think will happen to these United States, and particularly, what will happen to the Southland. In response to his questioning, I can’t give...

www.unz.com

 

[Troglodyte]

Rising cases, hospitalizations, and deaths trigger mandates. All of them. In the end, deaths is what matters.

Are the vaccines working as originally purported? Answer the question.

As Sarge has said, it's time to stop calling them vaccines perhaps.

Yes. 90% of vaccinated cases are mild or a symptomatic. If there were “no harm no foul” we wouldn’t be seeing mandates. Unfortunately, the unvaccinated are driving up hospitalizations and deaths. The daily averages are currently 56,000 hospitalizations and 500 deaths. If that was 5,600 hospitalizations and 50 deaths, nobody would be talking about Covid.

The vaccines aren’t working for the unvaccinated. Imagine that. The vaccines are more effective than most vaccines. I guess they shouldn’t be called vaccines either.

 

[Troglodyte]

So basically subtract the initial immune and natural immunity numbers from the vaccinated numbers and while there is a slight advantage to vaccination its not really what they are selling it as… this is a money grab… hell the pfizer booster shots are 100% proof of that… they are trying to tie them on to the non mrna shots and have had several quick high profile deaths probably because of it… it’s irresponsible to mix medications without long term studies first… this is getting imbecilic….

if you want the mrna stuff, great… but lets not act like they are tried and true science yet… it’s theoretical science being tested widespread because politically charged fools run the world…

90% effective in preventing serious illness and death is a “slight advantage”?

 

[Troglodyte]

Berenson posted it in his article.

And a little research goes a long way.

And Sarge is right, what I read....they aren't vaccinating kids. So 67% of their TOTAL population, 85% of their adult population. From his article: "around 85 percent of adults over 30 are fully vaccinated"

Regardless please pay attention to the SERIOUSLY ill data.

The increase for the unvaccinated was 10.8 to 55.5 (414%)
The increase for the vaccinated was 1.4. to 42.8 (2,957%)

42.8% of their seriously ill are vaccinated people. I'm sorry, however you slice it, and coupled with Walensky's admission that the vaccines do nothing to prevent the spread of COVID now...this isn't looking good.

View attachment 5976

I think OFTB tried to explain this to you.

55.5 > 42.8 The unvaccinated 15% (small minority) account for the majority of the seriously ill.

 

[hamster]

If I was on the front lines of seeing how this government is destroying this country, I might have suicidal tendencies as well.

 

[Stainless]

The stock market has crashed, just as The Donald promised, the job market fell well short of one million new jobs in July, the vaccinated are spreading COVID, which is killing the unvaccinated and dogs are living with cats. We live in ruinous times.

 

[nitsuj1225]

Yes. 90% of vaccinated cases are mild or a symptomatic. If there were “no harm no foul” we wouldn’t be seeing mandates. Unfortunately, the unvaccinated are driving up hospitalizations and deaths. The daily averages are currently 56,000 hospitalizations and 500 deaths. If that was 5,600 hospitalizations and 50 deaths, nobody would be talking about Covid.

The vaccines aren’t working for the unvaccinated. Imagine that. The vaccines are more effective than most vaccines. I guess they shouldn’t be called vaccines either.

Australia says hi. Just locked down again with a whopping 300 cases and 5 deaths.

More effective than most vaccines? I'd love to see some evidence to support this. Please enlighten us with any other vaccine that has been referred to as "leaky".

 

[Steelr4evr]

I with ya Hines.... BUT......I am not getting my hopes set too high either.

“My response to that line of thinking is to remind such optimists that Republicans had control of Congress—and the presidency—for several years, and essentially, despite some line cracks in the Deep State behemoth due to Donald Trump, things continued to get worse, the managerial government continued to grow in power, and did its best (with many Republicans in tow), eventually successfully, to eject the Trumpster from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. The administrative elites control education, control immigration policy (with GOP collaboration), control our media and entertainment, and dominate most of the levels of our government; and their reach and control expand by the day.”

The End of America? Hope Amidst the Ruins

I have a good friend who continually asks me what I think are the prospects for sensible, conservative—that is, normal—folks in these parlous times, what I think will happen to these United States, and particularly, what will happen to the Southland. In response to his questioning, I can’t give...

www.unz.com

I don't see any way around the inevitable. One will go after the other first. Which is already our little marxist drones doing work.



There isn't enough patriots in congress to right this ship.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Yes. 90% of vaccinated cases are mild or a symptomatic.

Provide a link to a scientific study/data that shows this 90% number, not CNN saying "The CDC says."

Also, keep in mind, the Delta variant is quite less dangerous.

You still can't ignore Israel data, yet you do.

Nearly 50% of their seriously ill are vaccinated.
The RATE of the vaccinated becoming seriously ill continues to rise. The rise for the month, 3,000%.

Vaccines are supposed to do two things: Help to prevent spread and make the virus less severe to those infected. These vaccines have 100% failed the first part (thus they are leaky - the CDC is on record). And we are seeing places like Israel, a perfect test bed, showing that large %s of the seriously ill are vaccinated.

Again, a poor look for the vaccines right now.

Unfortunately, the unvaccinated are driving up hospitalizations and deaths.

Except Israel, data you keep ignoring. 50% of their seriously ill are vaccinated. Are they driving up deaths?

The vaccines aren’t working for the unvaccinated.

Nor in many areas for the vaccinated. You just ignore the data because it goes against your bias.

The vaccines are more effective than most vaccines.

That's rich man. Did you lasso a unicorn this morning too? We need a link. Another unsubstantiated claim. Provide evidence these vaccines are more effective than "most" vaccines. Go on, it's your homework.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I think OFTB tried to explain this to you.

55.5 > 42.8 The unvaccinated 15% (small minority) account for the majority of the seriously ill.

::

The data from Israel shows you WHAT IS HAPPENING.

What part of it are you not getting?

IF the vaccines keep people from getting SERIOUSLY ILL, why are 43% of their cases those who are vaccinated?

Right now, at this moment in time, if 100 people are seriously ill in Israel - 56 are unvaccinated, 43 are vaccinated.

According to the data, right now, if you walk into an ICU in Tel Aviv, every other seriously ill COVID patient will be vaccinated. Bad, bad look.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Another warning label for the vaccines. This time from Canada. Now a warning for Bells Palsy.

Canada adds Bells Palsy warning to Pfizer Vaccine…

SOURCE Health Canada has updated the label on the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine to reflect very rare reports of Bell’s Palsy. In very rare scenarios, cases of Bell’s Palsy have been repor…

citizenfreepress.com

 

[ZonaBurgh]

That's rich man. Did you lasso a unicorn this morning too? We need a link. Another unsubstantiated claim. Provide evidence these vaccines are more effective than "most" vaccines. Go on, it's your homework.

Tim, you can't convince a believer of anything, their belief is rarely based on evidence, but on their deep seated need to believe.

This thread should have background music, how about "The Wheels on the Bus"?

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

This is going to be happening everywhere. We just aren't getting the real story here in the USA.

 

[Ironcitysteelers]

Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens

A study using Marek's disease virus in poultry shows that by reducing natural selection against highly virulent strains, imperfect vaccination enables the spread of viral strains that would otherwise be too lethal to persist.

journals.plos.org

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Tim, you can't convince a believer of anything, their belief is rarely based on evidence, but on their deep seated need to believe.

This thread should have background music, how about "The Wheels on the Bus"?

I know, it's never ending spin and dance. CDC Director Walensky comes out and says, point blank, without argument, no wiggle room - the vaccines do NOTHING to prevent the spread of COVID. Floggy glosses it over.

The President comes out and says cases will rise, but hospitalizations/deaths will not rise comparably....no comment. I've posted that a dozen times. He won't touch it.

Ideology and faith are tough to break. His own leaders/preachers have laid things out for him, he refutes them.

Some of his comments haven't aged well. Like this one, where he specifically was indicating that the vaccines were gonna stop the spread. Whoops.



Or this one, where has zero clue how many people were infected that didn't get tested, and indicates if you've had immunity you lose it in months. Whoops. Wrong again.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens

A study using Marek's disease virus in poultry shows that by reducing natural selection against highly virulent strains, imperfect vaccination enables the spread of viral strains that would otherwise be too lethal to persist.

journals.plos.org

Yup. This is the leaky vaccines subject I've been discussing.

Good vaccines are meant to do two things: Prevent the spread of a virus, and lessen the effects of a virus.

These vaccines can't do the first component. Walensky and the CDC admitted it. We've seen the rising cases among the vaccinated. Her admission is MONUMENTAL. Remember, those vaccinated ARE the trial, the testing phase.

Well, the vaccines have failed, utterly, in controlling the spread.

Read The Hot Zone. Excellent stuff. It does a great job of explaining the differences between bacteria and viruses. Viruses are neither alive, nor dead. You don't kill them. Here's an example used in the book. A man walks into a cave, has ebola. He cuts himself on a rock outcropping. The virus will get on that rock outcropping, where it will become dormant as it no longer has a host. The virus can sit there...forever...until another host comes along...neither alive or dead. If you cut yourself on that same rock outcropping 20 years later, the virus can become active again.

But while it is dormant, the virus cannot mutate. It cannot change.

Here's what's happening with the leaky vaccines - since the vaccines don't prevent the spread, the virus hops from host to host to host to host...nothing stopping it. And this allows it to mutate.

This is what the papers from 2015 said. By allowing spread, the vaccines promote virus mutations. Making the virus harder to battle. And while mutations almost always become weaker over time, they are afraid some more dangerous strains could appear. Who knows.

It's great that the vaccines do something to lessen your symptoms. But until we stop the spread, it's sort of like what's the point? We now have Lambda variant that is supposedly immune to the vaccines. So we get booster shots every 3 months forever?

We need better vaccines.

Also look up ADE.

Paging Dr. @ZonaBurgh to keep me honest here.

 

[Troglodyte]

::

The data from Israel shows you WHAT IS HAPPENING.

What part of it are you not getting?

IF the vaccines keep people from getting SERIOUSLY ILL, why are 43% of their cases those who are vaccinated?

Right now, at this moment in time, if 100 people are seriously ill in Israel - 56 are unvaccinated, 43 are vaccinated.

According to the data, right now, if you walk into an ICU in Tel Aviv, every other seriously ill COVID patient will be vaccinated. Bad, bad look.

Population 9.3 million. If 85% of adults (7 million?) are vaccinated, they have approx. 6,000,000 vaccinated, and 1,000,000 unvaccinated. If there are 250 serious illnesses (as stated in the article I posted yesterday) 108 are vaccinated, 142 are unvaccinated. So… 1 in 56,000 vaccinated are seriously ill with Covid while 1 in 7,000 unvaccinated are seriously ill. The unvaccinated are EIGHT TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE SERIOUSLY ILL.

What part of it are YOU not getting? The math part?

 

[Sarge]

I've taken a fair number (a lot) of vaccines in my lifetime, and this is the first that I can remember where it's so effective, I can still catch the virus, spread the virus, become ill and possibly die from the very virus I am supposedly protected from.

I don't remember being told that after MMR, small pox, anthrax, diptheria, hep a, hep b, polio, typhoid, varicella, cholera or the litany of other **** I've had injected into my arms, legs and *** cheeks.

I suppose you could argue the flu vaccine, which is incredibly effective if the correct strain is identified, which it rarely is. I think I read that based on that factor, the flu vaccine is only 20-30% effective.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Population 9.3 million. If 85% of adults (7 million?) are vaccinated, they have approx. 6,000,000 vaccinated, and 1,000,000 unvaccinated. If there are 250 serious illnesses (as stated in the article I posted yesterday) 108 are vaccinated, 142 are unvaccinated. So… 1 in 56,000 vaccinated are seriously ill with Covid while 1 in 7,000 unvaccinated are seriously ill. The unvaccinated are EIGHT TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE SERIOUSLY ILL.

What part of it are YOU not getting? The math part?

I'm not arguing that. Ya'lll keep hammering that point.

The point you continue to miss is that IF the vaccines are great at reducing SERIOUS illness, nearly 50% of their SERIOUS illnesses wouldn't be vaccinated people.

If we were talking about a situation where cases weren't rising, it would be different. But right now, cases are escalating (the vaccines aren't preventing spread) and nearly half of their SERIOUS cases are vaccinated. The numbers should still be infinitely higher for unvaccinated people being seriously ill. They are not.

And Serious illnesses continue to rise there, they have been ALL month long.

I'm not arguing the vaccines are useless. I am however arguing they aren't as effective as we've been told they are. It went from the vaccines will prevent the spread and keep you from dying to they don't prevent the spread AT ALL to their ability to prevent you from SERIOUS ILLNESS is now greatly in question.

Not a good report card.

 

[Stainless]

If the vaccinated population is much larger than the unvaccinated population, yet constitutes half of serious illnesses. it seems logical to argue that the vaccines dramatically reduce the likelihood of serious illness. Perhaps it not only seems logical to make that argument, perhaps it actually is logical to make that argument.

 

[oneforthebus]

I'm not arguing that. Ya'lll keep hammering that point.

The point you continue to miss is that IF the vaccines are great at reducing SERIOUS illness, nearly 50% of their SERIOUS illnesses wouldn't be vaccinated people.

If we were talking about a situation where cases weren't rising, it would be different. But right now, cases are escalating (the vaccines aren't preventing spread) and nearly half of their SERIOUS cases are vaccinated. The numbers should still be infinitely higher for unvaccinated people being seriously ill. They are not.

And Serious illnesses continue to rise there, they have been ALL month long.

I'm not arguing the vaccines are useless. I am however arguing they aren't as effective as we've been told they are. It went from the vaccines will prevent the spread and keep you from dying to they don't prevent the spread AT ALL to their ability to prevent you from SERIOUS ILLNESS is now greatly in question.

Not a good report card.

When you say things like "they aren't as effective as we've been told they are" you're implying we were lied to. The vaccines were extremely effective against the strains they were developed for, than a new variant came along. We've been told for months that if covid continues to spread variants could develop that might be more resistant to vaccines. We've also been told vaccine protection could wane over time. It appears that's happening to some degree, as I just read the more recently vaccinated appear to have more protection. So scientific knowledge is evolving, which should ultimately result in more effective vaccines. As of now these are the best we've got, and they reduce spread of delta to some degree (even if it's only 39% for pfizer, looks higher for Moderna, that's better than zero) as well as being very effective at reducing hospitalization and death.

Had we gotten more people vaccinated faster it's we might have avoided this variant. We didn't, now we'll need to play catch up to the next one, probably with boosters.

There's nothing nefarious or dishonest about any of this. Science can't always predict exactly how variants and mutations are going to act. Knowledge is something that's gained with time and experience.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

When you say things like "they aren't as effective as we've been told they are" you're implying we were lied to.

No I'm not. We were told they were certain levels of "effective" before they had hit general population. I'm saying that now, they do not appear to be as effective as we were led to believe they would be. They were guessing. Hoping. I wanted them to be what they purported they would be. They thought they knew then that the vaccines would do X when applied. They missed X. That's all I'm saying. I do know these organizations have lied to us. But I do not believe they intentionally lied to us about the effectiveness of the vaccines.

The vaccines were extremely effective against the strains they were developed for, than a new variant came along. We've been told for months that if covid continues to spread variants could develop that might be more resistant to vaccines. We've also been told vaccine protection could wane over time. It appears that's happening to some degree, as I just read the more recently vaccinated appear to have more protection.

Correct, this speaks to the leaky vaccines issue I've been reading and posting about. Because the vaccines do not prevent the spread, they are allowing the virus to mutate. In 2015, researchers/scientists warned we had not seen this in the human population, but that it could happen. It looks as if it may be. If what the Japanese researchers have said is true and Lambda variant is unaffected by these current vaccines, then we have a real problem.

So scientific knowledge is evolving, which should ultimately result in more effective vaccines.

I hope so.

As of now these are the best we've got, and they reduce spread of delta to some degree (even if it's only 39% for pfizer, looks higher for Moderna, that's better than zero) as well as being very effective at reducing hospitalization and death.

No disagreement, except Walensky's words...the vaccines no longer prevent the spread of COVID. I think she misspoke a little. But 39% is pretty poor when it comes to spread. As long as the virus can hop from host to host, it can mutate. When the levels are only 39%, the mutations are fueled. That's pretty poor.

Had we gotten more people vaccinated faster it's we might have avoided this variant. We didn't, now we'll need to play catch up to the next one, probably with boosters.

This I disagree with. The variants, many of them, had been discovered last year. Given how poor the current vaccines work against spread, I don't agree with this "what if." I don't know for a fact, but it's conjecture.

There's nothing nefarious or dishonest about any of this. Science can't always predict exactly how variants and mutations are going to act. Knowledge is something that's gained with time and experience.

I'm not saying there is. There are contingents that believe they are microchipping, whatever. That's not me. I'm concerned that the rushed nature of the vaccines left us with vaccines that aren't working as well as we had all hoped and maybe fueling more rapid mutations and we will forever play catch up.

 

[oneforthebus]

Correct, this speaks to the leaky vaccines issue I've been reading and posting about. Because the vaccines do not prevent the spread, they are allowing the virus to mutate. In 2015, researchers/scientists warned we had not seen this in the human population, but that it could happen. It looks as if it may be. If what the Japanese researchers have said is true and Lambda variant is unaffected by these current vaccines, then we have a real problem.

The virus spreads and mutates with or without vaccines. The vaccines reduce the spread at least, which means less chance for mutation. "Leaky" vaccines can also result in less virulent virus, which appears to be happening here because the vaccines reduce the seriousness of the illness caused by the virus by a lot.

An imperfect vaccine reduces pathogen virulence - Nature Reviews Microbiology

This study found that pathogen transmission from vaccinated hosts to contact individuals can cause a reduction in virulence.

www.nature.com

 

[oneforthebus]

The rushed nature of the vaccines was to prevent millions of deaths and is so far doing a pretty good job of that. As we learn more I'm sure vaccines will improve, and boosters may be needed just like they are with many other vaccines.