Covid Vaccine
- Thread starter jitter77
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I blame the Miller Lite.
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We can debate case rates and spread all you want. The important fact right now is that 97-98% of those hospitalized with covid are unvaccinated. 99% of those who are dying from it are unvaccinated. People are getting hospitalized and people are dying, and it's mostly preventable. No matter how you want to couch that in "it's not that many people" or "it's only certain people" or "the overall death rate is low", is that gonna matter if it's you or your loved one in the hospital fighting off death? There are thousands getting hospitalized and hundreds dying every day and those numbers are on the rise. I hope a lot more people come to their senses and get the jab.
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you are an hourly reminder of the long term side effects of inbreeding
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A beacon of reason and sanity in a dark, vast sea of ignorance. Thank you, OFTB, for reminding us that yes, there are still a handful of smart, astute folks that frequent this board. It's quite uplifting.
Once again, I don't disagree with a thing you are saying. And once again I repeat the same...
There is the other side of the discussion and that is what are the long term effects of the vaccines. We don't know. We won't know for years perhaps. This has been said time and time again. But people have a right to be skeptical. The Government and medicine have ****** up vaccines in the past. Not once...many times. Leading to lots of death, paralysis, etc. The Government has a long track record of mismanaging much.
People rightfully tend to be wary on these issues. Rightfully.
I wish we could fast forward to a few years from now and see that these vaccines are safe. I pray they are. I pray we don't see a world-wide agent-orange sort of fall out from these vaccines. Only time is going to tell.
People, again, should be allowed to weigh these risk decisions. Risk COVID now v the long-term risk of EUA vaccines.
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People have a right to weigh them, yes. I think balancing the risks from covid and the risks of the vaccine, all evidence is heavily weighted in favor of getting it for most people (again, I agree that so far there is zero evidence that natural immunity from previous infection is inferior so I leave that group out). I hope most people will. Yeah, eventually we'll probably get to herd immunity without it but only with a lot of preventable serious illness and death.
Adverse effects from vaccines that happen months or years down the road are mostly unheard of. They most commonly occur as a result of an immune system reaction shortly after injection and serious ones remain exceedingly rare.
Feature Article: Long-term Side Effects of COVID-19 Vaccine? What We Know. | Children's Hospital of Philadelphia
Learn about the scientific evidence that supports the long-term safety of COVID-19 vaccines.
Simple question: how many prior vaccines have been mRNA vaccines?
People have a right to weigh them, yes. I think balancing the risks from covid and the risks of the vaccine, all evidence is heavily weighted in favor of getting it for most people (again, I agree that so far there is zero evidence that natural immunity from previous infection is inferior so I leave that group out). I hope most people will. Yeah, eventually we'll probably get to herd immunity without it but only with a lot of preventable serious illness and death.
Adverse effects from vaccines that happen months or years down the road are mostly unheard of. They most commonly occur as a result of an immune system reaction shortly after injection and serious ones remain exceedingly rare.
Feature Article: Long-term Side Effects of COVID-19 Vaccine? What We Know. | Children's Hospital of Philadelphia
Learn about the scientific evidence that supports the long-term safety of COVID-19 vaccines.www.chop.edu
Again I don't disagree with your points.
I however do disagree with any article that points to the "long term side effects of COVID 19 vaccines."
We have been giving them out for 8 months. That's not long term. Also, given the fact the myocarditis issues were really only showing up in the past 60 days...we are still learning.
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It's answering the question of what the likelihood of long term side effects is. Obviously you are correct that no one can say that for sure (as they can't with any medical treatment until years down the line). But we are not devoid of evidence that long term side effects are unlikely, as the article explains. Meanwhile we do know there are people who have lingering effects from covid. Though we obviously don't know how long those will last either.
And this is the point I and others have been trying to make. We are in an either-or situation. A situation of assumed risk that should be able to weighed by the individual.
We don't know the long term effects of the virus.
We don't know the long term effects of the vaccines.
We know the chances of dying from COVID are incredibly rare. For those under 60 - it's less deadly than the flu.
We know the chances of dying from the vaccines are incredibly rare.
Given these facts, Americans should be given the right to make a self-determined approach.
If this was ebola, I'd be all on board. This is not.
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I don't know anyone arguing for forced vaccination. When people talk about "mandates" they are talking about businesses, health care entities, public transportation, places where people are indoors in close quarters, having the right to not allow potential contagious disease spreaders on their premises. Am I for that? Not really, I think it will backfire and cause people to dig their heels in further. It's certainly not unprecedented though, requiring vaccines for contagious illnesses, even some not all that deadly ones like measles. I hope through education most people will come to the right decision on their own. Although with 1 in 5 anti-covid vaxxers believing that the vaccines are used to implant microchips, there's a whole lot of misinformation to combat to get that to happen.
Forced vaccination is a misnomer. The Government isn't going to mandate vaccinations. They don't mandate restrictions on free speech either. It's done through other means. Like excusing social media companies for doing so, or the press, or app providers.
I would argue that vaccinations are going to be forced through alternate means by which people won't have a choice. Airlines. Retail stores. Having to show your vaccination status to go to a sporting event. Many universities are forcing it. Others are making it very difficult on the non-vaccinated to attend if they don't.
Forced vaccination won't happen by decree. If the tide grows as it has been, people will have to make the choice to live their lives and earn income and get the vaccine, or not. I work for a company that "as of today" isn't requiring it. But I travel for a living. Eventually, as full travel resumes, I could be forced to make the decision to give up my career and income or be forced to take the shots.
It will be an equation of live your life as you have and get the vax, or lose your life as you know it.
Will we get there? Hard to say now. I hope it does backfire if we get to that.
Minus the under 60 less deadly than the flu part (I honestly really don't know ATM, not doubting that it's likely correct), I'd really like someone to refute this and then explain to us why this isn't reasonable.
Which is absolute horseshit for an experimental vaccine for a respiratory virus with a 99% survival rate.
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Some vaccines are already required for travel to some places. Your kids are required to have a whole laundry list of vaccinations to go to most schools. Should people be forced to allow potential spreaders of a contagious disease inside their private business or retail store if they don't want to?
i see both your side and Tim's side of the argument.
yet in your above, WalMart greeters are not checking to see if you've had polio shots. Restaurants are not checking your TB status.
the vaccine is out there. that's known. everyone knows it. those who have gotten have told others to get vaccinated - if they choose to.
others are not getting vaccinated, for any litany of reasons.
if we force or "force" people to do so, then isnt that violating the very freedoms this country stands for?
conversely, if we have another shutdown (which will not happen since we have a Dim as POTUS now) then we'll just be turning back the clock, as people will be shut in and not exposed to the virus, thereby kicking herd immunity down the road - which is normal for government.
Yes they are. But I would argue it is apples and oranges. Those are tried, tested, proven vaccines.
I would have no problem with being forced to take the COVID vaccines when they are proven to be safe. None at all.
Forcing people to take untested vaccines is a different argument. There's also the severity of the diseases at hand, but that is a separate discussion.
Jonas Salk is spinning in his grave over this **** show.
That's an excellent point I hadn't considered.
Whenever I have boarded a plane (which is a TON)...I'm not asked for my vaccination status for any other malady out there (though I've had them all). I've never been asked my status to go to a restaurant, walk into a hospital, attend a sporting event, or even go to work. Never in my career have I had to present vax status for employment, not once. I've been overseas many times. Lived in England for 4 months. Wasn't asked to show proof of any vaccination.
Schools require it. Some travel to foreign countries requires it. Otherwise, what are examples of when you are asked to present your vax status?
And for all of the standard vaccines that are out there, countless are far more deadly than COVID...yet we don't demand proof of vaccination save for very limited situations.
What is the average age and overall general health of those hospitalized and dying? While the fact that the majority of them aren't vaccinated, I'd bet the age and health are a larger factor overall. I'm not against the vaccine for those that are susceptible, anyone in that category not getting the vaccine, isn't thinking this through.