How does my desire to sit in a restaurant and have dinner effect your ability to pick up curbside or have your food delivered to your home?
Covid Vaccine
- Thread starter jitter77
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I'm not following you with this.
Misinformation is intentionally misleading. Finding out you got something wrong and then correcting yourself isn't misinformation. I think science has been pretty clear all along that we didn't know if vaccine immunity might wane, or if variants might develop that reduced vaccine efficacy. There's been no "misinformation" about that to anyone who's been paying attention.
The failure to acknowledge natural immunity as strong and long-lasting is misinformation to me, as I've stated. The BS about vaccinated people still wearing masks around other vaccinated people is misinformation (designed to affect the behavior of the unvaccinated, not the vaccinated).
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I was one of those essential workers, as many here were/are, and I'm vaccinated. I don't need anyone to get vaccinated "for me."
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It doesn't. I can choose not to go. And if it's my restaurant, I can choose not to allow people who are more likely to be infected with a contagious disease to enter.
Its happening in NYC, where only vaccinated persons are allowed in restaurants, gyms, and theaters, etc. Feds are pushing for this policy to be adopted by others states and municipalities.
It happened all last year, many businesses in my state were shut down by the state because of unmasked patrons. Gym owners were arrested for opening their businesses to people who wanted to patronize them at their own risk.
Tyranny.
No one is arguing that point. As long as its the business owner's decision, not a government order. Especially if its an order that the government (mayors, governors, department heads) don't abide by themselves.
So the President, administration officials & the mouthpiece medical experts have all come out with statements correcting themselves? I actually don't know because I've pretty much stopped watching this circus, but telling the American people on national television that if you're vaccinated, you're immune - that's a pretty big deal.
Never mind, don't worry about responding, this is all really just a giant politicized shitstorm at this point and it's no use banging our heads against a wall.
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I've already said numerous times I'm not in favor of government mandates.
On a side note, is it just my computer or is the site really glitching for others today?
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The President doesn't even know where he is most of the time. I certainly wouldn't listen to his proclamations on anything.
The vaccines were highly effective. Now it appears they are less effective against infection from this variant than against previous versions, but still very effective at preventing hospitalization and death. I believe that's the message of the administration at this point, but I don't really know. I tend to look at the data and not what the talking heads say.
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Not for me.
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Why?
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And Israel checks in:
For those under the age of 60, the rate of severe illness among the unvaccinated stood at 1.4 cases per 100,000 people – 2.8 times more than the 0.5 per 100,000 among those who received two doses of the vaccine.
7% should be 7% should be 7%. You keep missing that.
Your article conflicts with the head of the Jerusalem Hospital. Drastically. I'll defer to him.
Because you still don't get that a rising rate per 100K of serious illnesses is a true increase is only indicative of your lack of knowledge.
Again, I'll repeat. 7% should be 7% should be 7%. The % of seriously ill AMONG the vaccinated grows. You're trying to "excuse" it away because, as most of the world is seeing, the efficacy of the vaccines are waning.
The CDC: They no longer prevent the spread of COVID
On protecting you against serious illness...around the globe we are seeing evidence of more and more people becoming seriously ill and dying who were vaccinated.
No one is arguing they aren't working. It's about to what degree. That degree is decreasing daily.
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According to the Israeli chart, almost ALL of the severe illness in people under 50 is among the unvaccinated.
Watch and learn...
correct. and I'm sure these mRNA shots have prevented thousands from dying from the Chinese Virus.
Yet I'm also able to see that the shots have had adverse affects on other people. It's possible to acknowledge both.
and what about OTHER people who are immunocompromised - like his wife - who are already there? or the ones filing in after her?
ah, **** 'em. they're not your problem. you've said as much.
its a hint
I and many other here object to that statement because it is faulty and born of misinformation and unnecessary fear. This is the flu for the majority of the US population. Targeted treatments should have been taken. Targeted treatments should be being taken now. Instead we are rolling right back into nationwide masking and lockdowns and the destruction of life, an approach that didn't prove to do much previously. Why are we doing this? Because the Govt and the media have overly scared the populace into believing this is far more deadly than it is. "Possibly die." I LOL. It's just...not...that...dangerous. That FEAR is what's enabling these draconian measures that are far more worrisome.
I am. Now, I fully am. Masks don't work. You've even admitted as such. Biden's health dude just admitted, they don't do ****. Shutdowns didn't work. 74% of COVID was spread previously at home, the safest places we could be were out. Yes, I'm against nonsensical restrictions that have been proven to be ineffective.
OK so now that is offensive. You're lumping me into an "anti-vax" bucket. I'm not working to discredit them, I'm sharing what I have seen.
You are fighting tooth and nail to make them out to be a panacea. When their efficacy of late has waned, you've walked it back saying "they were never supposed to prevent spread." Ummm, yes we WERE told they would.
I'm trying be realistic about a set of vaccines that A) cannot prevent the virus from spreading (that's dangerous and leading to mutations), B) has more people getting seriously ill while vaccinated than should be, C) appear to do nothing against the new Lambda variant, and C) have a very, very suspect, growing list of adverse events.
You wanna gloss all of that over, feel free. By sharing this information, I'm not discrediting it. I'm bringing forward data people should consider. There are a LOT of people here who haven't yet or won't take these vaccines. I'm sharing information.
By sharing Walensky's damning statements last week isn't to discredit the vaccine. Everyone was getting vaccines to go see Granny, attend weddings, finally visit their relatives. It was to share updates and news.
Everything about these vaccines we should be discussing, right, wrong, indifferent because it is literally a world-wide test on mankind of unproven technology. Many camps, of which you seem to be one now, are quick to just say "Yep, they work. They told me so. I'm a believer."
I believe we are going to be years learning about what worked and didn't. Sue me for being very, very cautious with what I put in my body.
I understand you and your family have had the vaxes and you have an emotional interest in wanting them to be effective and safe, and you have a medical friend who says mRNA is totally legit and safe. You have your echo chamber. I have a friend/direct neighbor who's a bio scientist at NIH who I lean on heavily who contradicts wholly your medical friend. Who is scared shitless over these vaccines. She's a PHd herself.
Let's leave it as we have different opinions. You're fighting tooth and nail to make the vaccines into an infallible panacea. They are not. Let's let the situation evolve, let's discuss it, let's allow others to disagree.
The right to make my own choice, to assume my own risks. Period.
If these mandates come, it's the beginning of a very nasty slippery slope that will never end. We thought banning sugary sodas was bad. This will upend the world. I don't think people see that. This is bigger than a slightly worse version of the flu. If we allow governments to mandate vaccines, watch what happens in a decade in terms of what information you have to start providing in your passports.
I'm as confident in making this awful prediction as I was in saying that defunding the police would lead to a rise in crime.
Never in the history of this country, that I'm aware of, were you forced to show you were vaccinated against the measles or small pox to sit down and eat a burger. This is Orwell-level scary ****.
TARGETED treatment as many have been saying all along. My son shouldn't have to lose his senior year of high school basketball because granny in a nursing home might be at risk. Not when he is part of a population that only 0.000004 died of. They are essentially immune. The schooling they lost last year? Their social activities? Their growth and development? An abject disaster.
So now we want to go right back to doing exactly what we were doing before. It didn't work then, it won't work now.
And don't say vaccines are the answer. The Government bases policy off of CASES by and large. And the vaccines are not stopping the spread, in fact they may be increasing spread.
We need a different approach. We protect the most vulnerable, we employ a strategy to protect them while the rest of us bravely fight this and develop mankind-wide immunity measures.
You want 100% mitigation for everyone...again???
I'm stunned if you do.
You keep saying that, but your words say you're just fine with it.
That's intellectual dishonesty. The Government is mandating all soldiers get the vax. New York government is mandating businesses not allow people in without proof of vaccination. Guiseppe's Pizza isn't making that call. The CA Government has been talking about a vaccine passport for months...that would trickle down to businesses.
I believe a few businesses themselves would want to make this decision, but only a few. It is Federal, State and local driven by and large. It is NOT business owners saying it. It's GOVT driven.
And finally, yes it's Guiseppe's right not not allow people in his store without proof of Covid vaccine. I'd ask Guiseppe, why haven't you previously asked to see people's measles, small pox, diptheria, and rubella proofs of vaccine?
IF THIS WAS EBOLA, I'd be down for it.
This is not ebola. It's not close to Ebola. It's not in the same universe as Ebola. It's like the spanish flu, but it appears you have fallen into the trap of believing Covid is far more serious than it really is. "Oooh, it's highly contagious." So is the cold.
What you believe apparently believe COVID to be in terms of deadliness and what it really is are leagues apart.
This is not the bubonic plague, the black plague, an ebola pandemic. It's a slightly worse version of the flu.
Our reactions to this Spanish Flu-like endemic are Bubonic-plague like. We are doing an amputation for a mosquito bite.
The over-reaction is destroying lives. Countless lives.
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Of course. Every vaccine, every medication, every medical treatment has adverse effects in some people.
And the rest of them? They actually came out (NYT and CNN) and said 'medical experts' declared illegal immigrants being bussed all over the U.S. with Covid are not actually spreading Covid. How is that possible? You're okay with that? And Obama's party where "sophisticated vaccinated" people walking around maskless was perfectly okay, while they're issuing mask mandates for ordinary citizens. That doesn't make you think they could actually give a **** less about the well-being of the people of this country and that it's just a bunch of politicized nonsense?
Fact check: Did COVID vaccines cause the delta variant? | DW | 12.07.2021
The delta variant is spreading rapidly — even in countries with a high vaccination rate. That gives grounds for wild speculation: Did the vaccines make the delta variant possible in the first place? A DW fact check.www.dw.com
Have vaccines caused the delta variant?
It is impossible for the delta variant to have been caused by vaccines.
This virus mutation was detected for the first time in October 2020 in the Indian state of Maharashtra. The first person in India to be vaccinated, however, did not receive that vaccination until January 2021, around three months after the delta variant developed. This refutes the claims mentioned at the beginning.
No one is saying it has. I have not. Delta variant was discovered last year. As your article said, in October 2020. Before the vaccines were released. Many variants were apparently discovered.
This article really doesn't make a point.
Studies have been done on leaky vaccines. Leaky vaccines are those vaccines that DO NOT PREVENT THE SPREAD OF A VIRUS. That allows the virus to hop from host to host to host. Where it encounters different people, with different immune systems, using different vaccines, and it mutates to thrive and remain active.
It was warned in studies in 2015 that leaky vaccines could happen with humans if we released vaccines that treat symptoms but not spread.
I can't say it is happening. But it sure appears these vaccines fit the definition. They do not prevent spread, only address symptoms and now we have a variant in Lambda that the current vaccines are 100% ineffective against.
Wait and see.
CDC Director Rochelle Walensky: The vaccines no longer do anything to prevent the spread of COVID.