Covid Vaccine

[Steelworth]

I think I've posted enough real world data here to not be accused of that.

Meanwhile, you post this: "I worked with a lot of Microbiology PhDs at Caltech for several years and have the good fortune of being in contact with a couple of them still, and they're not on board with mRNA. The consensus seems to be that even traditional vaccines aren't going to protect much against mutations (like what happens with all viruses), but they're not against them. Seems they think humoral immunity of the B cells and traditional autoimmunity of the T cells are the best bet at this stage."

Are any of these folks willing to go public with this knowledge? Have they conducted or published any studies that demonstrate why they're not on board with these vaccines? Or are we just supposed to take "Some guys I work with think this" as some kind of scientific data.

Do you have even the slightest idea about the PhDs at Caltech? It isn't just any research institution. And David Baltimore (Nobel Laureate) has written some on the virus and the vaccines (as they are) - you can certainly look him up to check his credentials and what he's said. They are intentionally vague because they have a line they need to toe, but I assure you they are not down with mRNA.

And you ask that question to me, while you actually stated "I talked to a Pharmaceutical Executive..." wow.

 

[oneforthebus]

Do you have even the slightest idea about the PhDs at Caltech? It isn't just any research institution. And David Baltimore (Nobel Laureate) has written some on the virus and the vaccines (as they are) - you can certainly look him up to check his credentials and what he's said. They are intentionally vague because they have a line they need to toe, but I assure you they are not down with mRNA.

And you ask that question to me, while you actually stated "I talked to a Pharmaceutical Executive..." wow.

You're really being an *** here. I've relayed conversations I've had with a lifelong friend who's been involved in development of drugs and vaccines and understands the process when I've been asked why I trust that pharmaceutical companies are not lying to us. I've never said "A pharmaceutical company executive told me the vaccines are good so good enough for me". I actually know several people who work in the industry and have parents and sibling and wives and children and their lives are devoted to discovering and developing things that help people avoid getting sick and dying. If you want to believe they're fine with harming people to make money I won't change your mind.

I think it's pretty irresponsible for a scientist who has legitimate fact-based concerns about safety and efficacy to "toe the line" and not share those concerns with the public. But ok.

No of course I don't know PhDs at Caltech. Why would I? I'm not a scientist never claimed to be. Share some more names I'd love to see what they've written.

 

[oneforthebus]

David Baltimore seems like a brilliant guy. Can't find any articles he's written lately about covid and vaccines so please post, would love to read.

 

[Steelworth]

You're really being an *** here. I've relayed conversations I've had with a lifelong friend who's been involved in development of drugs and vaccines and understands the process when I've been asked why I trust that pharmaceutical companies are not lying to us. I've never said "A pharmaceutical company executive told me the vaccines are good so good enough for me". I actually know several people who work in the industry and have parents and sibling and wives and children and their lives are devoted to discovering and developing things that help people avoid getting sick and dying. If you want to believe they're fine with harming people to make money I won't change your mind.

I think it's pretty irresponsible for a scientist who has legitimate fact-based concerns about safety and efficacy to "toe the line" and not share those concerns with the public. But ok.

No of course I don't know PhDs at Caltech. Why would I? I'm not a scientist never claimed to be. Share some more names I'd love to see what they've written.

You've never worked in the field at all, in any position whatsoever, but you have the nerve to call me out on my affiliations to a place I worked at for multiple years, you sanctimonious, know-it-all.

Pandemics of the Past and Future: A Conversation with Nobelist David Baltimore

A virologist at the forefront of studying HIV/AIDS compares that pandemic to the current global COVID-19 crisis.

www.caltech.edu

My professor was David R. Prober, professor of Microbiology, look him up as well.

Prober Lab

www.proberlab.caltech.edu

 

[oneforthebus]

You've never worked in the field at all, in any position whatsoever, but you have the nerve to call me out on my affiliations to a place I worked at for multiple years, you sanctimonious, know-it-all.

Pandemics of the Past and Future: A Conversation with Nobelist David Baltimore

A virologist at the forefront of studying HIV/AIDS compares that pandemic to the current global COVID-19 crisis.

www.caltech.edu

My professor was David R. Prober, professor of Microbiology, look him up as well.

Prober Lab

www.proberlab.caltech.edu

What the hell are you talking about? I haven't called you out on your affiliations, nor have I claimed to have worked in the field, ever.

 

[Steelworth]

David Baltimore seems like a brilliant guy. Can't find any articles he's written lately about covid and vaccines so please post, would love to read.

Oh he seems like a brilliant guy to you? That's swell.

 

[Steelworth]

What the hell are you talking about? I haven't called you out on your affiliations, nor have I claimed to have worked in the field, ever.

You didn't say them (you're smart like that), but you're discounting them and saying "I'm really being an *** here" because I disagree with you?

 

[oneforthebus]

You've never worked in the field at all, in any position whatsoever, but you have the nerve to call me out on my affiliations to a place I worked at for multiple years, you sanctimonious, know-it-all.

Pandemics of the Past and Future: A Conversation with Nobelist David Baltimore

A virologist at the forefront of studying HIV/AIDS compares that pandemic to the current global COVID-19 crisis.

www.caltech.edu

My professor was David R. Prober, professor of Microbiology, look him up as well.

Prober Lab

www.proberlab.caltech.edu

Thanks for the article, I did find that one, it was written in April 2020 before the vaccines were developed and there were any clinical trials. So I was looking for his writing on the vaccines that you mentioned.

 

[oneforthebus]

You didn't say them (you're smart like that), but you're discounting them and saying "I'm really being an *** here" because I disagree with you?

You're being an *** because you're completely mischaracterizing what I said about my conversations with my friend in the pharmaceutical industry. I'm not discounting your affiliations I'm just saying they aren't data. Just like my conversations with my friend aren't data and I have never claimed they were.

 

[Steelworth]

Thanks for the article, I did find that one, it was written in April 2020 before the vaccines were developed and there were any clinical trials. So I was looking for his writing on the vaccines that you mentioned.

While I'm showing you articles from noble laureates that you're discounting because of the time frame - what exactly do you have for me?

 

[oneforthebus]

While I'm showing you articles from noble laureates that you're discounting because of the time frame - what exactly do you have for me?

I'm not discounting the article, it just doesn't address the issue we're discussing.

 

[oneforthebus]

Oh he seems like a brilliant guy to you? That's swell.

Yeah cause I'm a dumb **** whose opinion means nothing. OK.

 

[Steelworth]

You're being an *** because you're completely mischaracterizing what I said about my conversations with my friend in the pharmaceutical industry. I'm not discounting your affiliations I'm just saying they aren't data. Just like my conversations with my friend aren't data and I have never claimed they were.

I'm being an *** because I turned around exactly what you said to me about having friends in the industry? - You specifically said because I know people in that field, that that really doesn't mean anything. That's right, isn't it?

 

[oneforthebus]

I'm being an *** because I turned around exactly what you said to me about having friends in the industry? - You specifically said because I know people in that field, that that really doesn't mean anything. That's right, isn't it?

I didn't say that really doesn't mean anything. Keep making up **** I supposedly said.

 

[Steelworth]

Yeah cause I'm a dumb **** whose opinion means nothing. OK.

No, you're a sanctimonious know-it-all. Because you read. Because you know certain people. You haven't worked in that field, so STFU basically.

 

[Steelworth]

I'm not discounting the article, it just doesn't address the issue we're discussing.

Again, what do you have for me? Or is the onus strictly on me?

 

[oneforthebus]

No, you're a sanctimonious know-it-all. Because you read. Because you know certain people. You haven't worked in that field, so STFU basically.

Yes, you are the expert and apparently numerous other people with no expertise in the field can spew whatever bullshit they want, as long as they agree with you.

If you're such an expert in the field please post something factual. That you learned. From your expertness.

 

[oneforthebus]

Again, what do you have for me? Or is onus strictly on me?

What do you mean what do I have for you? I've posted page after page of scientific studies on how much these vaccines reduce infection, illness and death. What else do you want? I can't show you a PhD in virology or pharmacology, never said I could. Can you? Put up or shut up.

 

[Steelworth]

Yes, you are the expert and apparently numerous other people with no expertise in the field can spew whatever bullshit they want, as long as they agree with you.

If you're such an expert in the field please post something factual. That you learned. From your expertness.

No no no. I never ever said that (that people not in the field can't have informed opinions). And I've said over and over again, I'm not an expert - I just have access to experts.

You're just turning **** around and being an *** yourself.

 

[Steelworth]

What do you mean what do I have for you? I've posted page after page of scientific studies on how much these vaccines reduce infection, illness and death. What else do you want? I can't show you a PhD in virology or pharmacology, never said I could. Can you? Put up or shut up.

You've posted scientific studies? From whom? Federally funded bullshit? Or something from an actual virologist or another actual expert.

You have my full attention if you post something of substance.

 

[oneforthebus]

[

You've posted scientific studies? From whom? Federally funded bullshit? Or something from an actual virologist or another actual expert.

You have my full attention if you post something of substance.

Oh good lord. Scroll back if you want. Do you actually believe federally funded scientists aren't credible? You know Caltech research like almost every other research institution is heavily federally funded right? You're ridiculous. Are you drinking or something?

https://researchadministration.caltech.edu/documents/16255/ora_fy2019_annual_report_final.pdf

Awards. Awards for FY 2019 totaled $392 million, a 19% increase in research funds awarded
in FY 2018. Federal funding increased by 23% for a total of $289 million. This represents the
highest level of Federal funding for the past decade and reflects on the strength of Caltech’s
proposals as well as on favorable congressional appropriations for the Federal research agencies
from whom Caltech receives support. In FY 2019, Federal funding accounted for 91% of all
sponsored funds received. Caltech’s sponsored research portfolio during FY 2019 comprised
1,618 active awards.
NSF continues to be Caltech’s largest Federal sponsor, accounting for 32% of Federal funding;
NIH accounted for 23%. Federal “flow-through” funds originate with Federal agencies and are
awarded to Caltech by other recipients of Federal funds. Flow-through funds account for slightly
more than 20% of all Federal funds and frequently originate at other universities with whom
Caltech faculty are collaborating. The report includes a chart showing the origins of the flowthrough funds, the majority of which are from NASA and represent funding from JPL for
research collaborations between Caltech faculty and their JPL colleagues.

David Prober seems like a very accomplished neuroscientist by the way. Please let me know his reasoning for "not being down with mrna vaccines". I would be interested in hearing it.

 

[Steelworth]

Oh good lord. Scroll back if you want. Do you actually believed federally funded scientists aren't credible? You know Caltech research like almost every other research institution is heavily federally funded right?

You just look to find something/anything you can pounce on, and fight. You're a predator, not a beta cuck boy/girl.

While research grants are heavily federally funded (hence my response why they say 'vague' things), they are also funded privately. You keep on with your pharm executives and I'll keep on with my Caltech connections, and we'll see where we are in a year or two?

Deal?

 

[madinsomniac]

Let me see if I can put this in a little perspective.

1500 people die every year from anaphylactic reactions to something. A lot of it is common foods. No one suggests that peanut butter and eggs are poisons designed to kill us, and peanut butter and eggs don't even prevent a contagious illness.

My daughter had something called idiopathic thrombocytopenia at age 3. Her immune system started attacking her platelets and she almost completely lost the ability to clot. We went to bathe her and she was covered in bruises, had to rush her to the ER. The doctors told me it was most likely caused by the combination of a viral illness and taking ibuprofen. It happens in about 3000 kids every year. It's completely treatable but some kids probably die of it if they fall and injure their heads or something before diagnosis, etc.

Yet no one is screaming that ibuprofen is poison and kids should never take it. And ibuprofen does nothing but relieve symptoms, it doesn't even prevent a contagious illness.

Rare things happen to people sometimes. Sometimes even vaccines cause rare things. That doesn't mean that the benefits of them don't greatly outweigh the risks.

We make these judgments every single day about many aspects of our lives. I don't understand how this hysteria over vaccine side effects started, and why it persists. There are far more hospitalizations, illnesses, and long term effects from covid than from vaccines, even if death rates from covid are very low in some populations.

Why people fear the vaccines more than they fear getting covid is just mind boggling to me. It's not based on anything factual. It's more like "Let me resist this because some people want me to do it." It is, in my opinion, childish and weird. (I exclude those who are naturally immune because as far as we know right now there is really no good reason for them to get a vaccine. No real reason not to, but if you don't need one why should you get one?)

That's where I am at from my hours and hours of reading. I'm always open to new factual info. I'm not open to speculation and conspiracy theories. It's a dangerous game that will (and has) end up killing some people. Maybe not that many, but medicine is in the business of preventing illness and death, and it's a shame when preventable illness and death happen simply because people won't trust medicine.

I Agree that the vaccines do have a positive impact on the data, but you have to understand that the potential side effects are so unknown on this that its extremely difficult to simply isolate short term advantages and ignore the risks for many people.

Yes even cutting put the 30~40% that have natural immunity from the numbers the vaccines as a whole absolutely have a better record to date than unvaccinated, but there are enough very smart and educated doctors raising serious concerns That aren’t going to be proven or disproven for years that its fine for people to hold off

If the vaccine was one that utterly eradicate s the spread then maybe people have a case for pushing it on people, but it doesn’t stop the spread… it potentially could make things worse down the road…

there is absolutely no harm in moving away from the first gen vaccines and marketing the second gens that the majority of the vaccine hesitant will accept and that might actually be more effective short and long term…

 

[Steelworth]

David Prober seems like a very accomplished neuroscientist by the way. Please let me know his reasoning for "not being down with mrna vaccines". I would be interested in hearing it.

He's not a neuroscientist - a microbiologist - but you knew that I'm sure, because you seem to know everything.

 

[oneforthebus]

No no no. I never ever said that (that people not in the field can't have informed opinions). And I've said over and over again, I'm not an expert - I just have access to experts.

You're just turning **** around and being an *** yourself.

You literally said I've never worked in the field so I should STFU.