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Covid Vaccine

Not true.


CLAIM: The Red Cross says if you recovered from COVID-19 and had a vaccine, you cannot donate blood plasma because the vaccine wipes out natural antibodies.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. The Red Cross did not make that statement. The organization is accepting blood and plasma donations from people who have been vaccinated, but has discontinued an earlier initiative to collect convalescent plasma from recovered COVID-19 to treat those with the virus. Experts say COVID-19 vaccines do not wipe out natural antibodies from COVID-19, and instead boost antibodies.

THE FACTS: As of March 26, the Red Cross discontinued the dedicated collection of COVID-19 convalescent plasma due to declining demand from hospitals and a sufficient industry supply. Posts online are now misrepresenting the change and are spreading the false claim that the Red Cross is no longer taking any plasma donations from those who have had the COVID-19 virus and received a vaccine.

Social media users are sharing a February clip from KMOV-4, a CBS-affiliate news station in Missouri, where the anchor incorrectly says that because COVID-19 vaccines wipe out natural antibodies, the Red Cross is no longer accepting convalescent plasma from people who are vaccinated.

“If you have had covid and recovered you can donate plasma to help save lifes UNLESS YOU GET THE VACCINE after having recovered,” reads an inaccurate tweet that shared the video.

Posts with the video were widely shared across Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.

Red Cross spokeswoman Katie Wilkes told The Associated Press that the information included in the broadcast about the vaccine wiping out natural antibodies was inaccurate. She said the Red Cross had reached out to the news station to correct the information.

Wilkes also said that even though the dedicated convalescent plasma program was discontinued, vaccinated people are still able to participate in blood drives. “In most cases, you can donate blood, platelets and plasma after a COVID-19 vaccine as long as you’re feeling healthy and well,” she said.

KMOV-4 updated their story on May 27 after the AP contacted the station.

“Today News4 updated a story we reported in February,” a station spokesperson said in an email. “At that time, a representative of the American Red Cross said the organization’s policy was to discourage convalescent plasma donations from donors who previously had COVID-19 and were then vaccinated because of a then-belief about antibodies.”

Experts say the recent posts about antibodies get it all wrong. Dr. C. Buddy Creech, a Vanderbilt University vaccine expert, said there is no reason to suspect that COVID-19 vaccines would diminish antibodies. In fact, vaccines should amplify them.

Vaccines produce a more consistent immune response to the coronavirus, since mild infections lead to lower antibody levels than more severe infections, Creech explained.

“This is why those who have been infected still benefit from vaccination; that vaccine will then serve to boost the immune response that was made during the initial infection,” Creech said in an email.

Matthew Frieman, associate professor of microbiology and immunology at the University of Maryland School of Medicine, agreed.

“If you were previously infected and then get vaccinated, the antibodies you produce are going to only be boosted for the Spike protein, the only viral protein in the vaccines,” Frieman said in an email.

In April, the Red Cross refuted earlier false claims that the organization would not accept plasma donations from people who have had the COVID-19 vaccine.

___
Thanks OFTB!
 
So YOU lied? You’ve had Covid? Lets hope your natural immunity better than your twice infected kid’s natural immunity. Why on earth are you constantly getting tested? Me thinks you’ve lied about one or more things somewhere along the way…

You ******* stupid, chromosome-missing, lazy, ignoramus. I told EVERYONE here....ASSHAT: https://www.steelernation.com/forums/threads/covid-vaccine.36523/page-104#post-837917

My son's friends, all vaccinated, got it at the same time he did. My twice infected kid had the ******* sniffles from a virus you equate to the god damned bubonic plague, showing truly how ignorant you are.

You really do suck at this.
 
Once again, the higher the percentage of a population that is vaccinated, the higher the percentage of infections that will occur in the vaccinated. I know it sounds counterintuitive. There just aren't that many unvaccinated people left to infect, particularly in elderly populations that are both most likely to be vaccinated, and most likely to be hospitalized.
This is one way data gets twisted. The proper comparison would be the percentage of unvaccinated people who get hospitalized vs. the percentage of vaccinated people who get hospitalized. Not what percentage of hospitalized people are vaccinated. Again, if 100% of people were vaccinated,100% of hospitalizations would be in the vaccinated.

Again you all miss the point. I don't argue that but yet you continue to repeat over and over and over that this makes sense mathematically. We are talking about Florida, only 53% vaccinated. Vermont is 14% ahead at 67%.

"99% of those who get seriously ill are those who are unvaccinated."

Remember that? No longer.

I know you don't want to admit it...but the vaccines' collective effectiveness is waning. Israel is out there leading the world right now I believe in 3rd shots because everyone there got the Pfizer vaxes early, their efficacy wore off, and they need the boosters.

It's not really a discussion any longer that the vaccines effectiveness is waning. It's admitted to by doctors. Papers. It's evident in the publicly acknowledged need for boosters. And as the vaccines' effectiveness wanes, you see hospitalization rates rise among the vaccinated.

I'll repost what I posted for Floggy last night. Even the NPR puts it in big bold letters: Immunity dips over time, the vaccines have waning protection. Logically at these moments, you are going to see cases rise among the vaccinated. January is really when vaccinations began to ramp up. Those vaccinated in Jan/Feb are at 6 months. Booster shot time. Their vaccination isn't helping them now as much as it did then. Hospital rates of vaccinated begin to rise. Not coincidence.

Highly Vaccinated Israel Is Seeing A Dramatic Surge In New COVID Cases. Here's Why​


1. Immunity from the vaccine dips over time.​

Israel had fully vaccinated slightly over half its population by March 25. Infections waned, venues reopened to the vaccinated and the prime minister told Israelis to go out and have fun. By June, all restrictions, including indoor masking, were abolished.

But Israel paid a price for the early rollout. Health officials, and then Pfizer, said their data showed a dip in the vaccine's protection around six months after receiving the second shot.

2. The delta variant broke through the vaccine's waning protection.​

It was a perfect storm: The vaccine's waning protection came around the same time the more infectious delta variant arrived in Israel this summer. Delta accounts for nearly all infections in Israel today.

"The most influential event was so many people who went abroad in the summer — vacations — and brought the delta variant very, very quickly to Israel," said Siegal Sadetzki, a former public health director in Israel's Health Ministry.

-----------------

Yes the rest of the article states the vaccines are helpful. How helpful? Well...on a sliding scale as time passes and it is a rapid downward curve (they observed a 15% drop in efficacy in a month in Israel). They aren't what we were told they would be. Yah, I know, "we are learning and this is natural."
 
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We are talking about Florida, only 53% vaccinated.
53% of the entire population which includes children, teens and young adults who are unlikely to be hospitalized regardless. What percentage of the elderly and people with underlying conditions are vaccinated? Probably a good deal more.

I posted numerous studies that show the vaccines remain effective against serious illness and hospitalization and somewhat effective against infection. That is data.

The percentage of people hospitalized who are vaccinated is not very relevant data for a variety of reasons that have been explained to you yet you continue to quote that stat as if it means something that it doesn't.

What matters is does the vaccine make you significantly less likely to be hospitalized if you get covid. Undeniably it does. I posted study after study that proves that.

Is that protection waning somewhat? It appears so. Is it non-existent? Not at all. It's still significant protection. Even in your favored stat hub, Israel.



Professor Eyal Leshem, an infectious disease specialist at Sheba Medical Center who has been treating Covid patients in Israel, told CNBC that while cases were rising despite a high vaccination rate, the rate of severe illness in the country remained “substantially lower.”

“We attribute that to the fact that most of our adult population is vaccinated with two doses, and more than one million people have received the third booster dose,” he said on a phone call.

“The severe disease rates in the vaccinated are about one-tenth of those seen in the unvaccinated, which means the vaccine is still over 90% effective in preventing severe disease,” Leshem added. “People who received the booster dose are also at much, much lower risk of becoming infected, our short-term data shows.”
 
It's not preventing serious illness in those vaccinated. Hit your back button read the news I'm sharing with you. Pull thine head from thine *** and open thine eyes.

40% of Hospitalized patients in PGH hospitals - VACCINATED
Jerusalem Hospital - 90% vaccinated patients.

What did I provide you with, a dozen links last night on the vaccinated not only spreading the virus but becoming seriously ill?

Now some more education for you, which you won't read. Pfizer's own data...THEIR TEST DATA...shows over time, the efficacy of their jabs falls quickly.

Peter Doshi:


The vaccine efficacy fell 25% in ONE MONTH in Israel. Israelis are primarily all given the Pfizer jab.



Hmmm....so the efficacy of the vax in Israel is now 11 points below FDA minimum standards for an approvable vax.



Doshi further explains that Delta variant is not the reason we are seeing a drop in efficacy of the Pfizer jabs:



@madinsomniac probably knows or is aware of this information:



Odd, that.
Yes, 40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized. Even if it was 60 or 70 percent hospitalized being vaccinated, they would STILL be less likely to be hospitalized.

I’ve tried to explain this to you, OFTB has tried to explain this to you, the Math Professor at U of Wisconsin has tried to explain this to you, I don’t think you have capacity or willingness to comprehend it.

Prove me wrong.
 
Odd, that.
It's not that odd that the FDA has gone against its own policies for Pfizer.
It also not odd that Moderna, given a head start by Trump, is now behind Pfizer.
Or that 12 or so other vaccine companies have much slower dealings with the regulator in its service to the people.
You could simply ask who used to run FDA as its commissioner?
A: Dr. Scott Gottleib
And then you could ask, what job is Dr. Gottleib doing right now?
A: Pfizer Director, since late 2019.
 
Yes, 40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized. Even if it was 60 or 70 percent hospitalized being vaccinated, they would STILL be less likely to be hospitalized.

I’ve tried to explain this to you, OFTB has tried to explain this to you, the Math Professor at U of Wisconsin has tried to explain this to you, I don’t think you have capacity or willingness to comprehend it.

Prove me wrong.
40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized
40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized
40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized
40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized
40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized
40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized
40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized
40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized
40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized
40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized
40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized
40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized
40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized
40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized
40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized
40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized
40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized
40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized


in other words, 40% of the people taking the vaccine will still wind up hospitalized.
 
I posted numerous studies that show the vaccines remain effective against serious illness and hospitalization and somewhat effective against infection. That is data.

Likewise, I have posted studies and data that show the vaccines' efficacy wanes over time. Thus the need for booster shots. As NPR explained, since Israel got their population vaccinated earlier than nearly any other, they are at the end of the vaccines' effective lives, and cases/hospitalizations/deaths among the vaxed is rising.

This isn't binary.

Yes, as more and more people are vaccinated, more of those who get sick...will be vaccinated.
Simultaneously, as the vaccines' efficacy wanes, so too will more people who are vaccinated become infected, get sick, get hospitalized, and die.

Both can be happening at the same time.
What matters is does the vaccine make you significantly less likely to be hospitalized if you get covid. Undeniably it does. I posted study after study that proves that.

Is that protection waning somewhat? It appears so. Is it non-existent? Not at all. It's still significant protection. Even in your favored stat hub, Israel.

So you are arguing in support of both of our viewpoints. Yes, the vaccines make you less likely to be hospitalized. Yet you argue, right there...protection is waning. In some areas like Israel, 25 points in one month. So while the vaccines make you less likely to be hospitalized, over time they become less effective and you are MORE likely to suffer hospitalization. That effectiveness drops. And with that drop, hospitalizations will rise.

Professor Eyal Leshem, an infectious disease specialist at Sheba Medical Center who has been treating Covid patients in Israel, told CNBC that while cases were rising despite a high vaccination rate, the rate of severe illness in the country remained “substantially lower.”

“We attribute that to the fact that most of our adult population is vaccinated with two doses, and more than one million people have received the third booster dose,” he said on a phone call.

“The severe disease rates in the vaccinated are about one-tenth of those seen in the unvaccinated, which means the vaccine is still over 90% effective in preventing severe disease,” Leshem added. “People who received the booster dose are also at much, much lower risk of becoming infected, our short-term data shows.”

So NPR, and other studies I have provided, disagree with yours. And we can go back and forth all day with counter studies/articles/data.

Thus...there's little trust in what's real and what is not.


Post-COVID-19 vaccine immunity seems to be waning, according to a report published yesterday (August 24) in the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.

The study followed more than 4,000 healthcare workers and other frontline essential workers across six states for 35 weeks, testing study participants weekly for SARS-CoV-2 infection, according to STAT. The majority of the participants received one of the three vaccines in use across the US—Pfizer, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson—although most received the Pfizer vaccine. The study started collecting data on December 14, 2020, and as of early April 2021, it showed that the vaccines were approximately 90 percent effective at preventing symptomatic and asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection.

Today’s report tracked the cohort through August 14—incorporating over four more months of data that include a time period in which the Delta variant swept the country—and found that overall, vaccine effectiveness dipped to 66 percent in the weeks when the variant accounted for at least 50 percent of SARS-CoV-2 viruses sequenced.
What the study can’t answer is why effectiveness dipped in the weeks dominated by Delta.

“What we were trying to figure out is: Is this Delta, or is this waning effectiveness?” says CDC epidemiologist and lead author of the study Ashley Fowlkes to The New York Times. “Our conclusion is that we can’t really tell.”

“We also want to reinforce that 66 percent effectiveness is a really high number,” Fowlkes tells the Times. “It’s not 91 percent, but it is still a two-thirds reduction in the risk of infection among vaccinated participants.”


The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine’s efficacy against SARS-CoV-2 peaked at 96.2% at seven days to two months after the second dose and then declined to 83.7% at four months, a preprint from Pfizer has reported.1

The preprint, which contains the latest data from the original clinical trial, found an average decline in vaccine efficacy of 6% every two months.

The Mayo Clinic found: Examining records for 25,000 vaccinated and unvaccinated Mayo patients in Minnesota, the researchers reported 76% effectiveness in the Pfizer vaccine protecting them from infection this year, but only 42% effectiveness in July

COVID-19 vaccines have lost some of their effectiveness in preventing hospitalizations, data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) shows.

Vaccine effectiveness in preventing hospitalizations has fallen as low as 75 percent, from a high of 95 percent that was first touted when the shots first became available in late 2020.

Those same shots are still up to 95 percent effective at preventing serious cases of COVID, but the new data suggests that the chances of a fully-vaccinated person falling sufficiently-ill with the virus to require hospital treatment has started to creep up.

As the vaccines become less effective, that too will lead to a rise in hospitalizations.
 
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Prove me wrong.

I have, over and over and over and over and over and over...again.

As vaccines' efficacies wane, you will see an increase in hospitalizations among the vaccinated.

You all continue to make it binary. Some of those vaccinated who are hospitalized is due to math, as you love to argue. And some are because the vaccines are no longer protecting them. See the articles I just posted.

I mean...it's only data reported by doctors about actual patients and data from the CDC itself.

Vaccine effectiveness in preventing hospitalizations has fallen as low as 75 percent, from a high of 95 percent that was first touted when the shots first became available in late 2020.

A 20% drop couldn't possibly lead to a rise in hospitalizations. Nope. No....way.
 
Likewise, I have posted studies and data that show the vaccines' efficacy wanes over time. Thus the need for booster shots. As NPR explained, since Israel got their population vaccinated earlier than nearly any other, they are at the end of the vaccines' effective lives, and cases/hospitalizations/deaths among the vaxed is rising.

This isn't binary.

Yes, as more and more people are vaccinated, more of those who get sick...will be vaccinated.
Simultaneously, as the vaccines' efficacy wanes, so too will more people who are vaccinated become infected, get sick, get hospitalized, and die.

Both can be happening at the same time.


So you are arguing in support of both of our viewpoints. Yes, the vaccines make you less likely to be hospitalized. Yet you argue, right there...protection is waning. In some areas like Israel, 25 points in one month. So while the vaccines make you less likely to be hospitalized, over time they become less effective and you are MORE likely to suffer hospitalization. That effectiveness drops. And with that drop, hospitalizations will rise.


So NPR, and other studies I have provided, disagree with yours. And we can go back and forth all day with counter studies/articles/data.

Thus...there's little trust in what's real and what is not.











As the vaccines become less effective, that too will lead to a rise in hospitalizations.
I don't disagree with any of what you're saying. I'm just saying it's not a good argument against getting a vaccine. 42% effective which is the worst among all of your studies (and also appears to be an outlier) is still a whole lot better than nothing. If you can cut severe illnesses and deaths almost in half that's still pretty damn good.
 
40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized

in other words, 40% of the people taking the vaccine will still wind up hospitalized.
Maybe I'm missing your point, but if you're actually making an argument that 40% of people that get vaccinated will end up hospitalized, I don't believe the numbers mean what you think they mean.
 
I don't disagree with any of what you're saying. I'm just saying it's not a good argument against getting a vaccine. 42% effective which is the worst among all of your studies (and also appears to be an outlier) is still a whole lot better than nothing. If you can cut severe illnesses and deaths almost in half that's still pretty damn good.

Nor am I arguing against GETTING a vaccine. It should be a personal choice. It should not be mandated (which we agree on).

Agreed, 42% is better than nothing, but that doesn't meet FDA minimum standards for a vaccine either.

The point...that I have been trying to make...endlessly (you will listen and debate, others will not): The vaccines are not what we were promised. They are not as effective as we all hoped they would be. They will, alone, not lead us out of this as they are today.

The #1 population vaccines should be used in is the elderly. And it is a crying damned shame the effectiveness in that age group of the vaccines has dropped 20 points. That, and the ill, are who they really need to protect. That protection is dropping.

We need and deserve better.
 
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Maybe I'm missing your point, but if you're actually making an argument that 40% of people that get vaccinated will end up hospitalized, I don't believe the numbers mean what you think they mean.

If 40% of those in a certain hospital are vaccinated, how does it mean anything other than 40% of their admitted population sick with COVID are vaccinated?

Seems like a pretty obvious stat to me.

Given we have been told they are 90% effective, 96% effective, 92% effective...and given we are seeing a rising # of hospitalized being vaccinated people...and given studies show point blank the vaccines efficacies wear down over time...it would appear to me...8 months into full on vaccination, we are seeing "effects" of vaccinations waning. How can we not?
 
In other words, 40% of the people taking the vaccine will still wind up hospitalized.

If 40% of those in a certain hospital are vaccinated, how does it mean anything other than 40% of their admitted population sick with COVID are vaccinated?

Seems like a pretty obvious stat to me.
I don't believe those statements are synonymous, but as I've pointed out in prior posts, I'm not very bright.
 
Nor am I arguing against GETTING a vaccine. It should be a personal choice. It should not be mandated (which we agree on).

Agreed, 42% is better than nothing, but that doesn't meet FDA minimum standards for a vaccine either.

The point...that I have been trying to make...endlessly (you will listen and debate, others will not): The vaccines are not what we were promised. They are not as effective as we all hoped they would be. They will, alone, not lead us out of this as they are today.

The #1 population vaccines should be used in is the elderly. And it is a crying damned shame the effectiveness in that age group of the vaccines has dropped 20 points. That, and the ill, are who they really need to protect. That protection is dropping.

We need and deserve better.

I don't think there's much disagreement that they aren't what we hoped for. Promised? I don't know. They were extremely effective against the original disease they were designed to fight. They can likely be adjusted or boosted to be more effective against variants. That would be better, no? But for some reason making these discoveries and changing protocols accordingly is looked at as something nefarious or dishonest. It's not. It's just how science works. We've had plenty of less effective vaccines and medicines replaced by more effective ones over the years. It's not that unusual.
 
I don't believe those statements are synonymous, but as I've pointed out in prior posts, I'm not very bright.
synonimon toast is great!
 
Yes, 40% of Pittsburgh hospitalized being vaccinated proves that the vaccine is working and the vaccinated are many times less likely to be hospitalized. Even if it was 60 or 70 percent hospitalized being vaccinated, they would STILL be less likely to be hospitalized.
Wait...what?

So you're of the opinion that if someone is vaccinated they have less chance of being hospitalized, even if 70% of those in the hospital are vaccinated? Man, you are just soaking this propaganda up like a piece of buttered bread. Holy ****.
 
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