,Cowher on the Steelers

[Vader]

I doubt they looked only at minorities. Chances are they had names on the list who weren't publicized (and were white). But when they interviewed Tomlin, obviously they thought they had their guy. (The Texans interviewed only Lovie Smith before hiring O'Brien. Not exactly an exhaustive search.)

They very easily could have picked someone else, maybe someone of the Caucasian persuasion (to borrow a term from The Buddy Holly Story). And that person might have made Tomlin seem like Lombardi.

Picking coaches is a very inexact science, after all.

All that's happened is that Tomlin is wearing thin. Cowher did, too. As I recall, probably the majority of this board back then wanted him out.

Names on a list doesn't equal anything. I'm sure if the Texans told the league that they had a minority on the "list" that it wouldn't mean jack ****. Which is true. It isn't about picking a Caucasian, it's about picking someone that they believe can coach and build a team. Tomlin had no pedigree. His defense was horrible against the pass the one year he was the DC. I've seen Tomlin's interviews and press conferences. The only way the Steelers were blown away with him is if they were drunk OR already knew they wanted an African American Cowher clone without the pedigree.

I don't really care about other teams. If the Texans or clowns want to hire someone in 15 minutes that's on them. I'd like to think that the Steelers job is pretty well sought after and that taking 15 days (maybe) to interview two outside people seems rash to me. What does it hurt to interview a few more people?

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Did Noll ever call a Cowher team soft? I can't remember a "soft" Cowher team...you could argue after the SB.

The coaching staff and team were kinda fried after that season, why they were 8-8 iirc the next season. Coach Chin didn't really want to come back and that's why he asked for more money than he knew the Rooney's would pay.

 

[Ghost of Frenchy Fuqua]

Cowher and Tomlin had similar backgrounds as NFL assistants. The difference is that Cowher was KC's DC for three seasons,Tomlin was Minnesota's for one.

The Rooneys essentially took a flyer on each in that neither had been a head coach. Cowher worked out better, that's all. (But there were several times in his tenure when fans wanted him out.).

 

[diver]

Names on a list doesn't equal anything. I'm sure if the Texans told the league that they had a minority on the "list" that it wouldn't mean jack ****. Which is true. It isn't about picking a Caucasian, it's about picking someone that they believe can coach and build a team. Tomlin had no pedigree. His defense was horrible against the pass the one year he was the DC. I've seen Tomlin's interviews and press conferences. The only way the Steelers were blown away with him is if they were drunk OR already knew they wanted an African American Cowher clone without the pedigree.

I don't really care about other teams. If the Texans or clowns want to hire someone in 15 minutes that's on them. I'd like to think that the Steelers job is pretty well sought after and that taking 15 days (maybe) to interview two outside people seems rash to me. What does it hurt to interview a few more people?

There is never any middle of the road here. Tomlin was a good hire. He got them another SB championship. All that bullshit about Cowher guys, he was the coach when they won it again.

Now, however, the guy needs to go. That doesn't make him a bad hire back in '07. But now, hell, it's like there are no adults in the room. Against Jacksonville, they throw the ball all the time at the goal line, get criticized for it, and then the next week run it 3 straight. Now they can say that didn't work, either. They think we are stupid, low information fans, not like it matters one way or the other. If they had a fullback in on any of those runs, they probably score. But again, where is the adult in the room that realizes the mistake in Jacksonville but responds maturely by maybe varying the playcalling. Maybe running and passing? Put a fullback in?

I don't know what he hell happened to him. Pedigree? What does that even mean? There have been a lot of guys with pedigree who have flat out sucked as head coaches. I am not smart enough to know what the hell happened. I am smart enough to know that it is over. He needs to go.

 

[JJ_Steel]

It was a bad hire on the same scale as Barry Switzer and the Cowboys.

 

[JJ_Steel]

Switzer has a higher winning percentage than coach cool shades, has the same number of Super Bowl wins, the same number of playoff wins in 4 years as cool shades has in 8 years and has less playoff losses. Switzer also was a winner in college and had a good resume, something the idiot Tomlin never had.

 

[Badcat]

It's not that tough to know where some are coming from. I don't give a **** if the team was 0-10, that stuff just shows everything you need to know about the person who posted it. He ******* stinks out loud as a coach, all the rest is just people either trying to be clever or showing themselves for what they are all the time. Either way it's pathetic.

Rooney had to hire a minority after Cowher. Whether you want to admit it or not he had to set the example for the Rooney rule. It's the NFLs version of affirmative action. He may not be the best candidate, but damnit we filled a quota. It's wrong. Hire the best coach regardless of skin tone, religion, or sex.

 

[Supersteeler]

Rooney had to hire a minority after Cowher. Whether you want to admit it or not he had to set the example for the Rooney rule. It's the NFLs version of affirmative action. He may not be the best candidate, but damnit we filled a quota. It's wrong. Hire the best coach regardless of skin tone, religion, or sex.

Still Coach Token is about one step above referring to him as Coach Watermelon 'n Chitlins.

 

[coupon]

I've been saying it for two years. While everyone was going I to the season claiming the defense was going to be good I kept saying it was a soft weak group.

you're ******* awesome

 

[Stryker]

Still Coach Token is about one step above referring to him as Coach Watermelon 'n Chitlins.

By who? Racists??

 

[Supersteeler]

Sigh. Apparently the entire point was lost on somebody who said I was being a racist in the comments section after they gave me negative karma. If you will go back and give the last 2 pages another read you might understand that myself and FAB were calling Badcat out for somewhat racist comments of calling him Coach Token. I was actually trying to make a point that was definitely NOT SUPPORTIVE towards racial comments like those. I fear for the reading comprehension skills of some people here.

 

[Supersteeler]

By who? Racists??

In my opinion it's getting dangerously close to saying the same thing. That was the whole point.

 

[bigtwnvin]

Out in the business world "affirmative action" promoted by goobermint program and funding produces it's share of substandard quality cost overruns and all around disappointment.
There are exceptions of course, and success stories of minorities that have risen above all others without the "assistance" of gubmint cheese opting to earn their own way evaluated on their own merit.
The "Rooney Rule" is a trap that sets individuals like Mike Tomlin up for failure. I think MT likely has a resume that is impressive but to grind him up in the gears of NFL football and not support him with capable staff? Just sounds like governmental waste and inefficiency.
In a way I feel sorry for the guy and the Rooneys should be ashamed. Art Sr wouldn't humiliate a man like this regardless of his skin color.

 

[Slaine]

It's simplistic to put this all on Tomlin. The front office has been swinging and missing on players for the last five years. Players that fundamentally do not fit the system that we want to play on Defense and do not have the skills (speaking mainly about the OL here) on offense. There is a disconnect somewhere, whether that's in the belief system of the guys coaching (4-3 background) through to the style of players that we need to fit how they are currently being used. We still insist on picking big heavy footed guys as tackles as if we have the Bus back there and plan to run the ball 40 times a game. I don't know where the disconnect is, whether it's just bad talent evaluation or whether there's some of both.

Whatever it is the Rooney's have ignored it for too long and we have some really bad times coming.

 

[Badcat]

In my opinion it's getting dangerously close to saying the same thing. That was the whole point.

Good. That was my whole point. I'm not calling him anything to degrade him as a black man as that would be racist. It's my way of pointing out that he was hired because of his race. His race plays no part in his ability or inability to coach this team, but his hire was based at least partially if not mostly on his ethnicity. Tomlin spent one season as a defensive coordinator before becoming the head coach of one the NFLs elite teams in the prime of their micro dynasty. The man was not ready to lead this team then, and he's not ready to lead this team now.

And Slaine, you're point is spot on.

 

[Vader]

It's simplistic to put this all on Tomlin. The front office has been swinging and missing on players for the last five years. Players that fundamentally do not fit the system that we want to play on Defense and do not have the skills (speaking mainly about the OL here) on offense. There is a disconnect somewhere, whether that's in the belief system of the guys coaching (4-3 background) through to the style of players that we need to fit how they are currently being used. We still insist on picking big heavy footed guys as tackles as if we have the Bus back there and plan to run the ball 40 times a game. I don't know where the disconnect is, whether it's just bad talent evaluation or whether there's some of both.

Whatever it is the Rooney's have ignored it for too long and we have some really bad times coming.

I don't see anyone putting it all on Tomlin. Most want the entire coaching staff and FO fired. Also, I wonder who in the organization has a 4-3 background that all of a sudden started changing the type of players drafted... oh who could it be?

 

[steelcan58]

It's simplistic to put this all on Tomlin. The front office has been swinging and missing on players for the last five years. Players that fundamentally do not fit the system that we want to play on Defense and do not have the skills (speaking mainly about the OL here) on offense. There is a disconnect somewhere, whether that's in the belief system of the guys coaching (4-3 background) through to the style of players that we need to fit how they are currently being used. We still insist on picking big heavy footed guys as tackles as if we have the Bus back there and plan to run the ball 40 times a game. I don't know where the disconnect is, whether it's just bad talent evaluation or whether there's some of both.

Whatever it is the Rooney's have ignored it for too long and we have some really bad times coming.

There could be a disconnection between the HC and the GM. Much the same as Cowher and Donahue. The difference is Cowher manned up and won the power struggle. I'm not sure Tomlin is capable of winning the power struggle or turning the team around if he does. Cowher put his stamp on this team when he took over. All Tomlin has done is let things slide.

 

[FAB802]

Rooney had to hire a minority after Cowher. Whether you want to admit it or not he had to set the example for the Rooney rule. It's the NFLs version of affirmative action. He may not be the best candidate, but damnit we filled a quota. It's wrong. Hire the best coach regardless of skin tone, religion, or sex.

We just disagree on that whole premise. I think it's a pretty big reach to assume that the owners of a Billion dollar commodity would intentionally put it in jeopardy for that reason alone. I'm not a fan at this point, but the fellas who were all being interviewed/hired during that time all turned out to be less than great themselves. The rule itself calls for an interview, not to turn the keys over.

All this hindsight viewing of Cowher and his drafting/coaching greatness is pretty damn comical too. He was solid, he is never going to be on anyone's top twenty all time list. Ultimately nobody here really knows how they came to the conclusion that he was the guy. Barring someone with a bootleg secret tape in the room while they discussed it. The team is a wreck, all I care about is that they fix it. Regardless of who's in charge when they do so.

 

[madtacker]

Good. That was my whole point. I'm not calling him anything to degrade him as a black man as that would be racist. It's my way of pointing out that he was hired because of his race. His race plays no part in his ability or inability to coach this team, but his hire was based at least partially if not mostly on his ethnicity. Tomlin spent one season as a defensive coordinator before becoming the head coach of one the NFLs elite teams in the prime of their micro dynasty. The man was not ready to lead this team then, and he's not ready to lead this team now.

And Slaine, you're point is spot on.

Bill Cowher spent one season as a defensive coordinator. 2 years as a defensive backs coach & 2 years as a special teams coach. How is that much different than the resume of Mike Tomlin?

Tomlin was a DB coach for 5 years and defensive coordinator for 1.

Personally I think they hired him because they thought he was a good leader of men. Not saying they were right, but that's what I think.

I think the same could be said for Bill Cowher. They hired him because they thought he had the right passion & could be a good leader.

IMO they looked at Tomlin as a young, no nonsense defensive guy who says all the right things. With veteran coordinators in place he would grow into the job as a head coach.

I don't think the color of his skin had as much to do with it as your making it out to be & if your basing it on resume then like I said. He and Cowher had a similar resume.

 

[topseed]

Bill Cowher spent one season as a defensive coordinator. 2 years as a defensive backs coach & 2 years as a special teams coach. How is that much different than the resume of Mike Tomlin?

Tomlin was a DB coach for 5 years and defensive coordinator for 1.

Personally I think they hired him because they thought he was a good leader of men. Not saying they were right, but that's what I think.

I think the same could be said for Bill Cowher. They hired him because they thought he had the right passion & could be a good leader.

IMO they looked at Tomlin as a young, no nonsense defensive guy who says all the right things. With veteran coordinators in place he would grow into the job as a head coach.

I don't think the color of his skin had as much to do with it as your making it out to be & if your basing it on resume then like I said. He and Cowher had a similar resume.

You are mistaken.

Cowher was KC's defensive coordinator for three years: 1989, 1990, and 1991, during which the Chiefs compiled a 29-18-1 record. By contrast, in Tomlin's lone season as a DC, the Vikings were 6-10.

 

[JJ_Steel]

Plus Cowher played in the NFL , anyone comparing Tomlin's razor thin resume to Cowher's is a fool. Tomlin was a Rooney Rule hire, nothing more.

 

[Vader]

You are mistaken.

Cowher was KC's defensive coordinator for three years: 1989, 1990, and 1991, during which the Chiefs compiled a 29-18-1 record. By contrast, in Tomlin's lone season as a DC, the Vikings were 6-10.

Stop using all those facts. We need conjecture and pure speculation not facts.

 

[Badcat]

You are mistaken.

Cowher was KC's defensive coordinator for three years: 1989, 1990, and 1991, during which the Chiefs compiled a 29-18-1 record. By contrast, in Tomlin's lone season as a DC, the Vikings were 6-10.

And the Vikings defense was dead last in defending the pass in 2006, which was Tomlin's specialty being a defensive backs coach. Hmmmmm

 

[Steeltime]

All that bullshit about Cowher guys, he was the coach when they won it again.

Wha ... ?? With Ben, Bettis, Ward, Holmes, Miller, Starks, and Smith on offense (ALL Cowher guys), and McFadden, Clark, Townsend, Taylor, Polamalu, Harrison, and Woodley in their prime (all but ONE a Cowher guy), and Lebeau handling that defense, I could have coached the team to a Super Bowl win.

The proof in the hypothesis is that as the team becomes more and more Tomlin's team, the worse it gets.

 

[Slaine]

I don't see anyone putting it all on Tomlin. Most want the entire coaching staff and FO fired. Also, I wonder who in the organization has a 4-3 background that all of a sudden started changing the type of players drafted... oh who could it be?

Firing them all is IMO a huge backward step - we become the Browns.

They have all at one point or another show their competence. The problem is to find where that disconnect is and sort it out. Who isn't talking to who? Who is genuinely deciding on the players that we are drafting and based on what analysis?

I have a nasty feeling that it's between Colbert and Tomlin or that the supporting people in the FO around Colbert have either been promoted above their level of expertise or have left and the people filling those slots aren't up to the job. It may be a bit of both but from my perspective I worry a lot that the guys that we are drafting don't look anything like the sort of people that will succeed in our schemes. There are obviously exceptions to that (Bell) but out of the last six first round picks only three are either still here or have panned out, with the jury out on Jones (though not for me - he's shown nothing) and Shazier.

But there are quite a long list of picks that you'd like to have back in the last few drafts: Mike Adams, Ziggy, Worilds. Others would add Gilbert to that list and it's not that long ago we had Sweed, Davis and Colclough stinking the place up. Those are all premium picks that set us back drastically. I know that the draft is a crap shoot (as Antonio Brown shows) but you have to hit on those first and second rounders and we have been drafting guys that don't fit what we want to do. Who's fault is that? Who isn't communicating who the Steelers are as a team and what their identity is? Because as of now it appears to be "pick good athletes that preferably don't have character flaws". The coaching staff really hasn't shown that it can coach up people into NFL starters if they're not a great fit for our schemes.

Guys like William Gay get by on smarts and attitude. The coaching staff already gave up on him once and as of now he's one of the better inside corners.

This team needs an identity. As of now it does not have one. Once it has one they can tell the scouts what they're looking for and we can go and get them in the draft and free agency. There is no direction and that goes all the way to the top.

There could be a disconnection between the HC and the GM. Much the same as Cowher and Donahue. The difference is Cowher manned up and won the power struggle. I'm not sure Tomlin is capable of winning the power struggle or turning the team around if he does. Cowher put his stamp on this team when he took over. All Tomlin has done is let things slide.

It certainly feels like that from the outside looking in.

Show us that you really know what kind of team that you're building. Then get the coaches that understand and buy in to that. Then go and make it happen in the draft, FA and on the field.

As of now we're treading water. I'm not saying that people aren't working hard but the guy carrying water in a leaky bucket is working hard...It's ******* sad.