,Cowher on the Steelers

[Vader]

The identity is on the HC. Why try and make it harder than it is? Everyone knows what changed when Tomlin was hired. The draft immediately changed from the type of players that were drafted before he got here. It's undeniable. Guys that were projected 4-3 players are suddenly being drafted by a 3-4 team. Not once did this happen before Tomlin arrived. Timmons, Hood, Davis, Spence, and Stevenson Sylvester are all 4-3 type players. Just listen to some of the scouts talk about these guys:

On Sylvester: "Very undersized and will need to bulk up. Solely a 4-3 Will in the NFL but will do well in a read-and-react type of system."

Spence: " He has natural athletic ability to fit in a 4-3 scheme, in which he can play freely and flow to the ball. He is an active player and almost always involved on run plays."

And there are tons of others.

 

[obxsteeler]

Art Sr. is dead. Dan was the ambassador. It's his flaming liberal *** that ****** this team up so badly.

Just keep in mind it was Dan who brought this City 6 SB's.

 

[wig]

That's true Indy. Learn your history.

Art Sr. was a lovable, sweet man who never ever won.

Dan had the sense and business acumen to actually put the team on track to start winning. His flaming liberal *** made the Steelers into a dynasty. Sorry.

 

[deljzc]

And the Vikings defense was dead last in defending the pass in 2006, which was Tomlin's specialty being a defensive backs coach. Hmmmmm

I'm no Tomlin apologist but that statistic doesn't mean much.

The Vikings defense that year was good. According to Football Outsiders they improved from 23rd to 6th in DVOA. According to them they were 1st against the run and 18th against the pass.

Their defensive drive stats were even better: 5th in points allowed per possession, 6th in turnovers forced per possession, 4th in drive success rate against and 4th in red zone defense (3.96 points allowed per red zone trip against).

And he did it all with smoke and mirrors because his team was 2nd to LAST in pass rush/sacks that season.

The thing about Tampa-2 guys like Tomlin though is they all put up good statistics when the turnovers happen and really struggle when they don't. The concept of the defense is so predicated on bend-don't break and generating turnovers through gang tackling and deep safety coverage that if the turnovers ever dry up (even for a few games in the row), they often can't get teams off the field or can get out-bullied by bigger, more physical teams.

Honestly, you probably needed to see more than one season of Tomlin as DC to determine if some of the typical fluctuations in Tampa-2 defenses also would have happened to him/Minnesota. Part of the reason I believe in bigger front-7's and the 3-4 formation is it's more consistent and can sometime just out physical people if the turnovers don't happen.

I still believe no matter how high-tech and scheme oriented people believe the NFL is, football is still a game of mano-y-mano battles that you have to physically win in order to succeed. No scheme can hide a team that consistently loses one-on-one battles.

And the truth is when you watch the Steelers film, we just don't win enough one-on-one battles consistently to be a good team.

 

[Wingman]

That's true Indy. Learn your history.

Art Sr. was a lovable, sweet man who never ever won.

Dan had the sense and business acumen to actually put the team on track to start winning. His flaming liberal *** made the Steelers into a dynasty. Sorry.

Chuck Noll made it into a dynasty, Bill Cowher continued it, Tomlin well eh oh well **** it

 

[Vader]

I'm no Tomlin apologist but that statistic doesn't mean much.

The Vikings defense that year was good. According to Football Outsiders they improved from 23rd to 6th in DVOA. According to them they were 1st against the run and 18th against the pass.

Their defensive drive stats were even better: 5th in points allowed per possession, 6th in turnovers forced per possession, 4th in drive success rate against and 4th in red zone defense (3.96 points allowed per red zone trip against).

Those stats are wrong. They were 31st in passing yards given up. They were 18th in net yards gained per pass attempt. They had a -1.3 S.O.S. and they were 14th in PPG. They gave up less points the year after even if they didn't have as good of stats. They were not a good defense. I agree that he didn't have time to do much with them but that's all the more reason to be skeptical of hiring him.

 

[Ghost of Frenchy Fuqua]

Chuck Noll made it into a dynasty...

Well..the last 10 seasons weren't so hot.

Good for him that this board wasn't around in the '80s.

 

[Slaine]

The identity is on the HC.

It should be. If the owners and GM still think one way and the HC is the other then you probably end up in the clusterfuck that we find ourselves in.

 

[Wingman]

Well..the last 10 seasons weren't so hot.

Good for him that this board wasn't around in the '80s.

Depends on how you look at it. Teams in big markets were bidding for players the steelers were unable to do so. So the Steelers made 10 million dollars one year, the 49ers won the superbowl and lost money, the Rooneys likely thought that was a pretty good year.