Deebo not a Tomlin fan?

[Steelr4evr]

Again, what did Cowher win with Noll’s players, besides a lot of games? I’ll tell you. He had one AFCC loss and a SB loss. Bill didn’t win his championship until long after Noll’s players had Moved on or retired. He loss three other AFCC as well (although two of those were noted via cheating by Belichick/Adams).

LOL…name a team besides KC, LAR and GB who still only has one SB in well over a decade. Don't count NWE or Marcia because Drink has the red hot poker for them cheating ********.

Knocking on the door is getting to those AFCCG. The only thing he lacked was Ben. Gets Ben, wins superbowl. Too bad he didn't get him 8 years sooner. This team is most likely looking at 9-10 superbowl wins.

The Steelers of now resemble nothing of Noll or Cowhers teams. That mojo is poof.

Just colors and the history behind them are all that's left. Nothing to fear from these guys.

 

[diver]

If you are of the opinion, as many are, that the team wins despite Mediocre Mike standing in their way of course you don’t give him credit when we win…we simply overcame his average abilities.

When he is out coached, as often happens, of course he is to be blamed as his average abilities cost us.

In short Mediocre Mike is essentially the Rudy of coaches. Yeah you can win when he’s out there, but ya usually aren’t winning because he’s out there. That’s why you can both blame him for losses and not credit him for wins.

When is the last time time you saw an extended period of Mediocre Mike showing upper echelon coaching prowess???

I don't know. Who does? I think the league is full of mediocre coaching. To me that is what has made the cheater stand out, beside the cheating. I don't think he's mediocre, but he ain't setting the world on fire without Brady. Some of these young guys that seem to be doing so well...like that pajama boy looking guy in Miami. It's going well now, but do you really see that guy keeping control over a team when it gets little tough? Tyreek ain't getting his and all that? Stefanski in Cleveland...I really liked the gameplan he put together on Thursday. That's how they can win a lot. But probably like with Baker, when Watson comes back he'll wanna get his and they'll throw more and forget they have maybe the best back in the league. Zac Taylor does dumb stuff. The guy up in Buffalo...shiit, that's been the Steelers before this year. They can't run the ball and that will catch up with them eventually.

It is not a defense of Tomlin, so don't think it is. I just wanna know who is a really good coach? Harbaugh? Belechick? Reid? I just don't think the list is that long.

 

[FordFairLane]

My only add to this is Noll built Cowher a great team by the time he left. Cowher took it and made it better. He kept that same smashmouth physicality and attention to the small things that matter most...blocking and tackling.

We've lost all of that. If you can't do the little things well, you'll never do the big things well.

Cowher was handed an average team. He wasn’t handed trash but he didn’t have a hall of fame qb or stud running back. He made O’Donnell into a game manager. But even he needed Roethlisberger to get over the hump and win a bowl.

 

[Steelr4evr]

Cowher was handed an average team. He wasn’t handed trash but he didn’t have a hall of fame qb or stud running back. He made O’Donnell into a game manager. But even he needed Roethlisberger to get over the hump and win a bowl.

If you call Barry Foster, Dermonti Dawson,John Jackson,Hardy Nickerson,Greg Lloyd,Rod Woodson,Carnell Lake...average then I suppose I need to rethink that term.

1991 Pittsburgh Steelers Roster & Players | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 1991 Pittsburgh Steelers Roster, Players , Starters and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[SojournerSteel]

My only add to this is Noll built Cowher a great team by the time he left. Cowher took it and made it better. He kept that same smashmouth physicality and attention to the small things that matter most...blocking and tackling.

We've lost all of that. If you can't do the little things well, you'll never do the big things well.

“You've got to think about 'big things' while you're doing small things, so that all the small things go in the right direction.”
― Alvin Toffler

To your excellent point, do we even have an identity? Cleveland knows where its bread is buttered.

 

[FordFairLane]

If you call Barry Foster, Dermonti Dawson,John Jackson,Hardy Nickerson,Greg Lloyd,Rod Woodson,Carnell Lake...average then I suppose I need to rethink that term.

1991 Pittsburgh Steelers Roster & Players | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 1991 Pittsburgh Steelers Roster, Players , Starters and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Barry had one great year. Under Cowher. So below average. The rest great. That’s 6 out of 22 starters.
Cowher took a 22nd defense and turned it into the second ranked in his first year.

I don’t think Noll lost his ability to find or coach talent. I think he just couldn’t relate to the players anymore.

There’s a funny story told once about how Noll told a story before a Raiders game how Alexander the Great burnt his ships once landing in Persia. When asked why the commander said “because if we leave here we leave victorious on Persians ships.” One of the players raised his hand and asked if Noll had burnt the planes in Oakland. He said that is when he knew he had lost the connection with his younger players.

 

[Steelr4evr]

“You've got to think about 'big things' while you're doing small things, so that all the small things go in the right direction.”
― Alvin Toffler

To your excellent point, do we even have an identity? Cleveland knows where its bread is buttered.

We do not. The lines have been neglected so bad that they couldn't be solid in any identity. It's certainly not a physical team. I don't even know what to make of them. They're on the back of a milk carton.

 

[slashsteel]

We do not. The lines have been neglected so bad that they couldn't be solid in any identity. It's certainly not a physical team. I don't even know what to make of them. They're on the back of a milk carton.

They should invest heavily on the O and D line in the next few seasons. We know often the game is won or lost in the trenches.

 

[MT~Forged]

There are so many pieces to winning a Super Bowl, you can’t even count them.
YES - Tomlin won a Super Bowl, but he did not assemble that roster. Could they have won without him, who knows, but he gets credit for the win. Sometimes you just point people in the right direction and get out of their way, sometimes you screw things up and your people ignore you and do what is need. Which happened, we will never truly know.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

he was using the same o, and d, and had the incumbent coordinators on the roster.. Trying to remember when arians took over OC.. Maybe im wrong.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Knocking on the door is getting to those AFCCG. The only thing he lacked was Ben. Gets Ben, wins superbowl. Too bad he didn't get him 8 years sooner. This team is most likely looking at 9-10 superbowl wins.

The Steelers of now resemble nothing of Noll or Cowhers teams. That mojo is poof.

Just colors and the history behind them are all that's left. Nothing to fear from these guys.

This discussion will end at a respectful agree to disagree. Cowher’s winning philosophy did not involve having a franchise QB. His scheme required a QB to manage the power run/ball control offense to go along with his stifling defenses. He never attempted to “find” that QB, until Ben fell into his lap. NOD was his perfect game manager.

If you call Barry Foster, Dermonti Dawson,John Jackson,Hardy Nickerson,Greg Lloyd,Rod Woodson,Carnell Lake...average then I suppose I need to rethink that term.

1991 Pittsburgh Steelers Roster & Players | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 1991 Pittsburgh Steelers Roster, Players , Starters and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Hardy Nickerson was cut by Cowher after one year. He was a disgruntled player (one of the plaintiffs in the free agency lawsuit)..

Actually, you solidified my previous point. Cowher had a team built for the power/run game with the OL and backs and a ever improving 3/4 defense with the new zone blitz scheme dreamed up by one of his assistant coaches (Dick LeBeau).

 

[Steelr4evr]

This discussion will end at a respectful agree to disagree. Cowher’s winning philosophy did not involve having a franchise QB. His scheme required a QB to manage the power run/ball control offense to go along with his stifling defenses. He never attempted to “find” that QB, until Ben fell into his lap. NOD was his perfect game manager.


Hardy Nickerson was cut by Cowher after one year. He was a disgruntled player (one of the plaintiffs in the free agency lawsuit)..

Actually, you solidified my previous point. Cowher had a team built for the power/run game with the OL and backs and a ever improving 3/4 defense with the new zone blitz scheme dreamed up by one of his assistant coaches (Dick LeBeau).

Yes, I definitely agree to disagree. All good. My eyes and my very long memory do not deceive me.

It will be an interesting year. I believe everyone has the same objective. To see the team reach the highest objective.

 

[madinsomniac]

ALSO, just a note on Bubbles......

Coach Tomlin, Keith Butler, and Bubbles have all been long long time friends. I think they all went to college together and have history. Nothing like hiring your friends to do a Qaulified Job. As you know Keith is gone and Danny boy is the "last" friend Coach Tomlin has employed so there is that fear of being by himself. Talk about NOT wanting to live in his fear of being employed friend-less......................


Salute the nation

Fitchner also was a member of a staff that had Tomlin on it…

Bubbles is the current Steelers in a nutshell… overall mediocre results with a few outstanding performances sprinkled in and gaffs at the worse time… sometimes not prepared and sometimes unaware of the rules…

 

[Fiji Mariner]

I don't know. Who does? I think the league is full of mediocre coaching. To me that is what has made the cheater stand out, beside the cheating. I don't think he's mediocre, but he ain't setting the world on fire without Brady. Some of these young guys that seem to be doing so well...like that pajama boy looking guy in Miami. It's going well now, but do you really see that guy keeping control over a team when it gets little tough? Tyreek ain't getting his and all that? Stefanski in Cleveland...I really liked the gameplan he put together on Thursday. That's how they can win a lot. But probably like with Baker, when Watson comes back he'll wanna get his and they'll throw more and forget they have maybe the best back in the league. Zac Taylor does dumb stuff. The guy up in Buffalo...shiit, that's been the Steelers before this year. They can't run the ball and that will catch up with them eventually.

It is not a defense of Tomlin, so don't think it is. I just wanna know who is a really good coach? Harbaugh? Belechick? Reid? I just don't think the list is that long.

Definitely not a long list

Part of it may be that frequently the same retreads get opportunity after opportunity

Part of it may be the rest of the league adjustments when a guy starts separating from the pack

Part of it is the institutionalized parity the league seeks

I would agree there are a ton of questionable decisions by many average coaches come Sunday

Looking at the way you present maybe I should go back to calling him Dangerously Average Mike instead of Mediocre Mike

Mediocre Mike just had a ring to it haha

 

[Drink IRON City]

Fitchner also was a member of a staff that had Tomlin on it…

Bubbles is the current Steelers in a nutshell… overall mediocre results with a few outstanding performances sprinkled in and gaffs at the worse time… sometimes not prepared and sometimes unaware of the rules…

Like I said, GREAT STs coach, hard to believe he hasn't been hired away................................................


Salute the nation

 

[diver]

Definitely not a long list

Part of it may be that frequently the same retreads get opportunity after opportunity

Part of it may be the rest of the league adjustments when a guy starts separating from the pack

Part of it is the institutionalized parity the league seeks

I would agree there are a ton of questionable decisions by many average coaches come Sunday

Looking at the way you present maybe I should go back to calling him Dangerously Average Mike instead of Mediocre Mike

Mediocre Mike just had a ring to it haha

It does have a nice ring.

I just thing the thing is you could get worse. I think we tend to think if we just change coaches, whamoo! it'll get better. And look, I would try it. I am tired of watching it now. The same thing. For example, I have argued with people when they say adjustments. Tomlin doesn't make adjustments. My counter point has been how do we know? What if it just one team playing better or worse? Well, on Thursday night the exact same defense that was not stopping anything in the first half looked the same in the 2nd. Exactly the same. I thought Flores was supposed to fix some of that. I know it's early in this season anyway, but Mike Tomlin is the constant here. And nothing changes.

But like I said, I would try it. But as a fan, I'm going into it realizing that it may not be the cure all. The thing is in Pittsburgh a new coach, just like the last 3, would be given full support and every opportunity to succeed. No undermining of coaches would go on. I think that is why you don't have situations in Pittsburgh of a coach losing a team. The players know the coach has support from up top. So why not try somebody new?

Sorry if that's all over the place. I'm kinda think typing.

And what I don't like is some of the arguments used to try to show he should be fired. Because it makes us look like a bunch of women. You know how your wife wants you to do something, you don't wanna, and she makes it out to be something deeper when all you want to do is watch the game or go fishing. That's what we sound like when we do the Tomlin didn't win with his own team, or no coaching tree or whatever. The results are enough for me.

 

[Djfan]

Often, and I have done no research beyond my own casual observations, a new coach brings new energy, brining better results. Also, a new coach might change up scheme, calls, terms, etc. It might just work.

Or, keep on with what we know.

 

[Confluence]

SN should have an essay writing contest with the topic "Steeler Coaches"

 

[Drink IRON City]

Often, and I have done no research beyond my own casual observations, a new coach brings new energy, brining better results. Also, a new coach might change up scheme, calls, terms, etc. It might just work.

Or, keep on with what we know.

Currently I'd go with the "change" factor.!!!


Salute the nation

 

[stillwright]

F'k Harrison!!!!





And f'k Tomlin also.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

It does have a nice ring.

I just thing the thing is you could get worse. I think we tend to think if we just change coaches, whamoo! it'll get better. And look, I would try it. I am tired of watching it now. The same thing. For example, I have argued with people when they say adjustments. Tomlin doesn't make adjustments. My counter point has been how do we know? What if it just one team playing better or worse? Well, on Thursday night the exact same defense that was not stopping anything in the first half looked the same in the 2nd. Exactly the same. I thought Flores was supposed to fix some of that. I know it's early in this season anyway, but Mike Tomlin is the constant here. And nothing changes.

But like I said, I would try it. But as a fan, I'm going into it realizing that it may not be the cure all. The thing is in Pittsburgh a new coach, just like the last 3, would be given full support and every opportunity to succeed. No undermining of coaches would go on. I think that is why you don't have situations in Pittsburgh of a coach losing a team. The players know the coach has support from up top. So why not try somebody new?

Sorry if that's all over the place. I'm kinda think typing.

And what I don't like is some of the arguments used to try to show he should be fired. Because it makes us look like a bunch of women. You know how your wife wants you to do something, you don't wanna, and she makes it out to be something deeper when all you want to do is watch the game or go fishing. That's what we sound like when we do the Tomlin didn't win with his own team, or no coaching tree or whatever. The results are enough for me.

The results aren’t enough for me
The results for me have been lacking

That’s my main reason to support a change

Haven’t won anything meaningful in a long time and sometimes a coach just passes the expiration date of his message

Obviously we do now live in our fears and don’t defend every blade of grass, our guys are blinking and he ain’t cutting any eyelids off, the global trend has been not winning in the playoffs so his brilliant pressers obviously aren’t translating anymore…whatever the reason (no adjustments, can’t build a team like Cowher gave him, hiring piss poor coordinators, etc)

So better or worse, time to move on…and if the next guy sucks move on again.

We don’t have to keep him/her either if they don’t produce.

Or he could just win some damn playoff games maybe even a SB with one of his teams and coaching staffs and make me eat crow, would love to have him serve me up a big ole plate of it

 

[diver]

I meant the results are enough for me to fire him. I don't need to go into conspiracies or speculations.

 

[Drink IRON City]

The results aren’t enough for me
The results for me have been lacking

That’s my main reason to support a change

Haven’t won anything meaningful in a long time and sometimes a coach just passes the expiration date of his message

Obviously we do now live in our fears and don’t defend every blade of grass, our guys are blinking and he ain’t cutting any eyelids off, the global trend has been not winning in the playoffs so his brilliant pressers obviously aren’t translating anymore…whatever the reason (no adjustments, can’t build a team like Cowher gave him, hiring piss poor coordinators, etc)

So better or worse, time to move on…and if the next guy sucks move on again.

We don’t have to keep him/her either if they don’t produce.

Or he could just win some damn playoff games maybe even a SB with one of his teams and coaching staffs and make me eat crow, would love to have him serve me up a big ole plate of it

Crow is best served BBQ'ed, I know because I shoot off as I wear my thinking on my sleeve at times. YES, it does come back to haunt me but but what the hell, it's all in a day of brilliancy for gender specific people such as myself. No wheel un turned and sure as hell no media opportunity missed in the declaration of coordinaters and Honey Bees doing their respective jobs. Honey is like pudding, once out it can't be put back. Honey can be used in a medicinal way so as to help repair cut off eye lids.

No QB can survive on weighted plays and DL needs to follow their mohawk arrow direction with a banter of yells and hands in the air..


Salute the nation