Deebo not a Tomlin fan?

[Djfan]

I've said these many times................................... Had Coach Cowher stayed for 15 more years we would have 3 more SB under our belt.

I've also said many times over that Coach Tomlin has done the least with the most.

AND one last one.......... We have had arguably the most overall talented team in the NFL over the past 12 years and yet have accomplished the least including having a HOF quarterback.


Salute the nation

I agree.

 

[Ike Kelly]

My biggest gripe with Tomlin isn't even his fault. Just like Canada I really can't blame either. If you offered me the offensive coordinator or head coaching job for the Pittsburgh Steelers I would gladly accept. That does not mean I am qualified for either. Well, neither was Tomlin and neither was Canada. They got jobs they did not deserve from their prior coaching experience. Tomlin had ONE season as a defensive coordinator with Minnesota after being a DB's coach in Tampa. He ranked LAST in the NFL in pass defense. Canada had been inept in college at LSU and Maryland. Neither deserved their job.

Let’s look at that figuratively then Ford. Chuck obviously, was the most successful HC for PIT. So, he was hired by Dan with an exemplary resume, right? Nope. He never was a coordinator in the nine years before he was hired as a head coach. He was a DLine and DB coach during that time and played under Paul Brown before that as a rotating starting guard that brought the plays from the sideline to the QB.

So, the rationale for which you speak in regards to Tomlin, doesn’t hold water. I mean Dan was involved in the hiring process with Art2 and Dan interviewed all the applicants. So with the success rate of Dan’s selection/hiring of Head Coaches, not to mention the level of success compared to other franchises not guilty of cheating by any way possible, I’d say the Rooney’s have a pretty good handle on selecting people to run their football team.

Now with Canada, I’ve got nothing. When he was hired I thought he was to take Randy’s role as QB Coach and include his motion concepts into Randy’s playbook which was a simplified Haley playbook. His prior jobs all college show nothing special that would indicate a NFL aptitude. As someone said in another post, he’s just another Brian Kelly. It is so much easier to game plan against a college opponent than a NFL one, because every coach knows every other coach’s scheme. That’s why terminology is always changed by some guys….proprietary reasoning? Who knows, they are still the same plays and formations but with wrinkles. Canada’s offense has shown nothing of imagination or even more important a level of play calling that’s in a groove. The play calls sometimes stops the drives themselves and that is what drives most of us currently (and Ben last year) crazy.

 

[JMM]

Damn good thing the Steelers have been in the North otherwise they wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs for the past 10+ years. It's a ******* garbage division and has been since it migrated from the AFC Central...Now that was a division.

Back in the days of really cheesey team songs

 

[xjx]

Someone described Tomlin as " punt ready". Is Tomlin the most punt ready coach in today's NFL?

We have a punter that can boom a kick every now and then. Tomlin emphasizes special teams a lot.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Someone described Tomlin as " punt ready". Is Tomlin the most punt ready coach in today's NFL?

We have a punter that can boom a kick every now and then. Tomlin emphasizes special teams a lot.

PLUS, how many special teams "ACE" does the BUBBLES need. Criminey, Farrior actually played special teams a bit, including Debo / Peezy / troy / ect..


Salute the nation

 

[FordFairLane]

Let’s look at that figuratively then Ford. Chuck obviously, was the most successful HC for PIT. So, he was hired by Dan with an exemplary resume, right? Nope. He never was a coordinator in the nine years before he was hired as a head coach. He was a DLine and DB coach during that time and played under Paul Brown before that as a rotating starting guard that brought the plays from the sideline to the QB.

So, the rationale for which you speak in regards to Tomlin, doesn’t hold water. I mean Dan was involved in the hiring process with Art2 and Dan interviewed all the applicants. So with the success rate of Dan’s selection/hiring of Head Coaches, not to mention the level of success compared to other franchises not guilty of cheating by any way possible, I’d say the Rooney’s have a pretty good handle on selecting people to run their football team.

Now with Canada, I’ve got nothing. When he was hired I thought he was to take Randy’s role as QB Coach and include his motion concepts into Randy’s playbook which was a simplified Haley playbook. His prior jobs all college show nothing special that would indicate a NFL aptitude. As someone said in another post, he’s just another Brian Kelly. It is so much easier to game plan against a college opponent than a NFL one, because every coach knows every other coach’s scheme. That’s why terminology is always changed by some guys….proprietary reasoning? Who knows, they are still the same plays and formations but with wrinkles. Canada’s offense has shown nothing of imagination or even more important a level of play calling that’s in a groove. The play calls sometimes stops the drives themselves and that is what drives most of us currently (and Ben last year) crazy.

But here in lies the question. If Noll would have not shown improvement each year and if he wouldn't have had an 11 win season in 1972 how long does Dan Rooney give him? Lets just say for argument sakes he had Terry Bradshaw a hall of fame QB and goes 5 years without a playoff win. Does his seat get hot? I really don't know the answer and I am glad I don't.

This is what I know. Cowher built a great team. He left Tomlin a star packed team with a Hall of Fame QB. The coaches that come in after situations like these almost always have success. Bill Walsh handed over the keys to Montana and Young to George Seifert and Seifert won a super bowl. Then Seifert ended up in Carolina and in just three seasons was out on his ear. Barry Switzer took over for Jimmy Johnson. He won a super bowl with Johnson's team. A couple years later when Johnson's team was getting older out goes Switzer. When Gruden took over for Dungy. Won a super bowl and then wasn't much after that. I honestly feel Gruden got way too much leeway for winning that super bowl as he hung on for 6 years after that.

I guess what I am saying in my opinion Tomlin needs to prove what he can build. What he can do without a hall of fame QB under center. If I was him I would definitely get Pickett in the lineup to see what you have and to get him ready. I feel he has the freedom to have a losing season or two without Roethlisberger and under this front office. I feel his success as a coach hinders on developing Pickett.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Someone described Tomlin as " punt ready". Is Tomlin the most punt ready coach in today's NFL?

We have a punter that can boom a kick every now and then. Tomlin emphasizes special teams a lot.

Guilty as charged

Ya hear it in the sidelines whenever it’s third down for the STs guys, but our think tank has taken it become the offensive game plan we’ve been watching

 

[Ike Kelly]

But here in lies the question. If Noll would have not shown improvement each year and if he wouldn't have had an 11 win season in 1972 how long does Dan Rooney give him? Lets just say for argument sakes he had Terry Bradshaw a hall of fame QB and goes 5 years without a playoff win. Does his seat get hot? I really don't know the answer and I am glad I don't.

This is what I know. Cowher built a great team. He left Tomlin a star packed team with a Hall of Fame QB. The coaches that come in after situations like these almost always have success. Bill Walsh handed over the keys to Montana and Young to George Seifert and Seifert won a super bowl. Then Seifert ended up in Carolina and in just three seasons was out on his ear. Barry Switzer took over for Jimmy Johnson. He won a super bowl with Johnson's team. A couple years later when Johnson's team was getting older out goes Switzer. When Gruden took over for Dungy. Won a super bowl and then wasn't much after that. I honestly feel Gruden got way too much leeway for winning that super bowl as he hung on for 6 years after that.

I guess what I am saying in my opinion Tomlin needs to prove what he can build. What he can do without a hall of fame QB under center. If I was him I would definitely get Pickett in the lineup to see what you have and to get him ready. I feel he has the freedom to have a losing season or two without Roethlisberger and under this front office. I feel his success as a coach hinders on developing Pickett.

That’s a fair argument Ford, I’ll buy that all day long. Although I’ll go on to add that Bradshaw wasn’t much of anything for Chuck those first five or so years. He played poorly or showed flashes of his talented arm. Being drafted No. 1, and Terry having thought the bona fides he’d be given by Chuck but never received did a number on his psyche. Chuck didn’t care, his methodology for coaching professional football didn’t require motivation from him or a slap on the ***. He would teach how to play the position, the game, the concepts and narrowing your focus to the task at hand..”imposing your will on another”.

I’ll tell you this, after the 1st back to back SB, Brad was not the same QB In 76. But that defense (six shutouts that year) with the run game of Franco and Rocky would have minimized the QB play. Just dumb luck that both RB and FB got hurt in the same game, otherwise a third title could have been won.

Of course, that era was much, much different. As it was later when Cowher came on board, and to even a greater extent when Tomlin arrived. Completely different eras, generational mentality and maturity was/is totally different. It’s worse, IMO than it’s ever been. But that’s society’s fault, not the game or the coaches. They have to adapt. Right now they are transitioning to beyond the millennials generation. God help us. Thanks for your insight.

 

[diver]

That’s a fair argument Ford, I’ll buy that all day long. Although I’ll go on to add that Bradshaw wasn’t much of anything for Chuck those first five or so years. He played poorly or showed flashes of his talented arm. Being drafted No. 1, and Terry having thought the bona fides he’d be given by Chuck but never received did a number on his psyche. Chuck didn’t care, his methodology for coaching professional football didn’t require motivation from him or a slap on the ***. He would teach how to play the position, the game, the concepts and narrowing your focus to the task at hand..”imposing your will on another”.

I’ll tell you this, after the 1st back to back SB, Brad was not the same QB In 76. But that defense (six shutouts that year) with the run game of Franco and Rocky would have minimized the QB play. Just dumb luck that both RB and FB got hurt in the same game, otherwise a third title could have been won.

Of course, that era was much, much different. As it was later when Cowher came on board, and to even a greater extent when Tomlin arrived. Completely different eras, generational mentality and maturity was/is totally different. It’s worse, IMO than it’s ever been. But that’s society’s fault, not the game or the coaches. They have to adapt. Right now they are transitioning to beyond the millennials generation. God help us. Thanks for your insight.

I don't know how one would deal with some of these players. Look at Diontae Johnson and George Pickens from Thursday night. You got Johnson jumping up and down when Trubisky sailed one over his head, yet he drops a perfectly thrown long ball later. Pickens looks like he is always pissing and moaning out there. He has great talent but is going to be a pain in the asss however long he is here. One of those guys that drains the energy out of a room. So he makes that great catch, then later in the end zone instead of just catching it with two hands which he could have done he's gotta try to one hand it.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Someone described Tomlin as " punt ready". Is Tomlin the most punt ready coach in today's NFL?

We have a punter that can boom a kick every now and then. Tomlin emphasizes special teams a lot.

So, if the head coach emphasizes STs, then why don't we have a "TOP" tier STs unit............... maybe they are getting stuck on bubbles gum through-out play..........


Salute the nation

 

[BamaSteeler52]

Bullshiit. Tomlin was the coach. That is a weak argument. Cowher didn't make the playoffs with that team his last year.

If you and I go fishing and I use your pole and catch a big fish, do you take credit for it?

The coaches and players that were on that roster hid Tomlin's flaws, flaws that over time are destroying the team.

 

[Drink IRON City]

That’s a fair argument Ford, I’ll buy that all day long. Although I’ll go on to add that Bradshaw wasn’t much of anything for Chuck those first five or so years. He played poorly or showed flashes of his talented arm. Being drafted No. 1, and Terry having thought the bona fides he’d be given by Chuck but never received did a number on his psyche. Chuck didn’t care, his methodology for coaching professional football didn’t require motivation from him or a slap on the ***. He would teach how to play the position, the game, the concepts and narrowing your focus to the task at hand..”imposing your will on another”.

I’ll tell you this, after the 1st back to back SB, Brad was not the same QB In 76. But that defense (six shutouts that year) with the run game of Franco and Rocky would have minimized the QB play. Just dumb luck that both RB and FB got hurt in the same game, otherwise a third title could have been won.

Of course, that era was much, much different. As it was later when Cowher came on board, and to even a greater extent when Tomlin arrived. Completely different eras, generational mentality and maturity was/is totally different. It’s worse, IMO than it’s ever been. But that’s society’s fault, not the game or the coaches. They have to adapt. Right now they are transitioning to beyond the millennials generation. God help us. Thanks for your insight.

Ike, Another thing to consider is the "rules" changes which also help to distinguish the "ERA" differential between all three coaches.


Salute the nation

 

[Fiji Mariner]

So, if the head coach emphasizes STs, then why don't we have a "TOP" tier STs unit............... maybe they are getting stuck on bubbles gum through-out play..........


Salute the nation

“Punt ready” is just a 3rd down communication telling STs guys to helmet up and be ready to hit the field next play

Tomlin and Canada just use “punt ready” as their offensive mantra

In Tomlin’s house of fears being “punt ready” is not only a frequent consequence of their actions it is seeming to become their desired outcome…if they didn’t like punting so much maybe they wouldn’t be so damn resistant to change and adjustments of their failing plan.

Unfortunately being “punt ready” doesn’t help the effectiveness of the ST unit other than avoiding delay of game and such, maybe also helps with mental preparation

Even with our roster having several
Spots for dedicated STs guys (Watt, Boykin, Killebrew) Bubbles is just the type of Coach Shades loves to employ…mediocre at best, you know cut right out of the same mold as Mediocre Mike

 

[Drink IRON City]

“Punt ready” is just a 3rd down communication telling STs guys to helmet up and be ready to hit the field next play

Tomlin and Canada just use “punt ready” as their offensive mantra

In Tomlin’s house of fears being “punt ready” is not only a frequent consequence of their actions it is seeming to become their desired outcome…if they didn’t like punting so much maybe they wouldn’t be so damn resistant to change and adjustments of their failing plan.

Unfortunately being “punt ready” doesn’t help the effectiveness of the ST unit other than avoiding delay of game and such, maybe also helps with mental preparation

Even with our roster having several
Spots for dedicated STs guys (Watt, Boykin, Killebrew) Bubbles is just the type of Coach Shades loves to employ…mediocre at best, you know cut right out of the same mold as Mediocre Mike

ALSO, just a note on Bubbles......

Coach Tomlin, Keith Butler, and Bubbles have all been long long time friends. I think they all went to college together and have history. Nothing like hiring your friends to do a Qaulified Job. As you know Keith is gone and Danny boy is the "last" friend Coach Tomlin has employed so there is that fear of being by himself. Talk about NOT wanting to live in his fear of being employed friend-less......................


Salute the nation

 

[Ike Kelly]

Ike, Another thing to consider is the "rules" changes which also help to distinguish the "ERA" differential between all three coaches.


Salute the nation

Oh definitely…for sure. Chuck was one of the first to take advantage of the Mel Blount Rule, because he had two (future) HOF WRs and and allowed Terry to call plays to stretch the field more often.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Oh definitely…for sure. Chuck was one of the first to take advantage of the Mel Blount Rule, because he had two (future) HOF WRs and and allowed Terry to call plays to stretch the field more often.

That is a part of what made him an all time great, work with-in the game using his great coachablity to do so. It's hard to find a Chuck Noll or even a fraction of his great ability from top to bottom of bringing a team to maturity.

I'm just glad I was around to wittness that ability and the building of the "SUPER STEELERS" along the way.


Salute the nation

 

[Steelr4evr]

But here in lies the question. If Noll would have not shown improvement each year and if he wouldn't have had an 11 win season in 1972 how long does Dan Rooney give him? Lets just say for argument sakes he had Terry Bradshaw a hall of fame QB and goes 5 years without a playoff win. Does his seat get hot? I really don't know the answer and I am glad I don't.

This is what I know. Cowher built a great team. He left Tomlin a star packed team with a Hall of Fame QB. The coaches that come in after situations like these almost always have success. Bill Walsh handed over the keys to Montana and Young to George Seifert and Seifert won a super bowl. Then Seifert ended up in Carolina and in just three seasons was out on his ear. Barry Switzer took over for Jimmy Johnson. He won a super bowl with Johnson's team. A couple years later when Johnson's team was getting older out goes Switzer. When Gruden took over for Dungy. Won a super bowl and then wasn't much after that. I honestly feel Gruden got way too much leeway for winning that super bowl as he hung on for 6 years after that.

I guess what I am saying in my opinion Tomlin needs to prove what he can build. What he can do without a hall of fame QB under center. If I was him I would definitely get Pickett in the lineup to see what you have and to get him ready. I feel he has the freedom to have a losing season or two without Roethlisberger and under this front office. I feel his success as a coach hinders on developing Pickett.

My only add to this is Noll built Cowher a great team by the time he left. Cowher took it and made it better. He kept that same smashmouth physicality and attention to the small things that matter most...blocking and tackling.

We've lost all of that. If you can't do the little things well, you'll never do the big things well.

 

[Ike Kelly]

My only add to this is Noll built Cowher a great team by the time he left. Cowher took it and made it better. He kept that same smashmouth physicality and attention to the small things that matter most...blocking and tackling.

We've lost all of that. If you can't do the little things well, you'll never do the big things well.

Sure, he made it better so that he didn’t win a championship until ten years later (Without those players Noll gave him either). He competed to get there that’s for sure. Losing four AFCC games, which still sting though. Just like Tomlin’s JAX Divisional game. The ”built this team” for another Coach narrative has been beaten down to death by both coaches and players alike. Coaches game plan, teach players on technique and schemes. Player execute on the field based on what they learned from the coaches.

 

[diver]

The coaches and players that were on that roster hid Tomlin's flaws, flaws that over time are destroying the team.

Look, I am not necessarily disagreeing with that. I just think that the guy that is the coach should get credit for success or failure. For example, Tomlin takes heat for not getting that team to win more during those years. Rightfully so. But if that is the case, should he get credit as well for when he won with them? Can you have it one way and not the other?

The way I look at it he gets the credit for the run the had to win in '08 with no caveats. None. I don't give a shiit who built the team or whatever. He pushed the right buttons that year for them to succeed. He also deserves criticism for the rest of the time not winning more. That is reasonable and balanced, IMO.

 

[BamaSteeler52]

Look, I am not necessarily disagreeing with that. I just think that the guy that is the coach should get credit for success or failure. For example, Tomlin takes heat for not getting that team to win more during those years. Rightfully so. But if that is the case, should he get credit as well for when he won with them? Can you have it one way and not the other?

The way I look at it he gets the credit for the run the had to win in '08 with no caveats. None. I don't give a shiit who built the team or whatever. He pushed the right buttons that year for them to succeed. He also deserves criticism for the rest of the time not winning more. That is reasonable and balanced, IMO.

He does, he was the coach at that point but like others pointed out he basically coasted... My issue is that the team has been on a slow but steady decline even with a great QB that was still in his prime. I would have no complaints if we had more deep playoff runs, more division championships and a few AFC championships.

 

[Steelr4evr]

Sure, he made it better so that he didn’t win a championship until ten years later (Without those players Noll gave him either). He competed to get there that’s for sure. Losing four AFCC games, which still sting though. Just like Tomlin’s JAX Divisional game. The ”built this team” for another Coach narrative has been beaten down to death by both coaches and players alike. Coaches game plan, teach players on technique and schemes. Player execute on the field based on what they learned from the coaches.

Noll gave him a winner. Cowher gave Tomlin a winner.

What we have now is 100% Tomlin. It looks like ****. It's ******* soft and it isn't going to win ****. It hasn't been competitive with the best teams in the playoffs in a long long time. They get ***** slapped consistently.


Each year I hope they prove me wrong. Each year same ****** script.

 

[MTC]

To me this all starts with the third generation Rooney. He’s a businessman and not a real football man like his father who lived and breathed Steeler football. Art has become complacent and frankly Lazy to some extent. He’s comfortable with Tomlin as his HC and gives him far more credit and autonomy than he should have. He’s average and the team has become average year in and year out. Art won’t hold him accountable since he thinks he’s got a top five coach that everyone desires. The only good assistants we’ve had in his 16 years have either been holdovers from Cowher, Todd Haley whom Rooney hired, and Mike Munchack and Brian Flores whom Tomlin gets the credit for. Two guys in sixteen years.

That’s what the nfl is. It’s a business. It attracts every major commercial industry during the super bowl. The Steelers are at a point now where they are a recognized brand world wide. Merchandise will always sell whether they win or lose. It is what it is. He’s successful at selling what needs to be sold. The wins/losses are just novelty.

It’s all entertainment for me much these days.

 

[bkwheat28]

Look, I am not necessarily disagreeing with that. I just think that the guy that is the coach should get credit for success or failure. For example, Tomlin takes heat for not getting that team to win more during those years. Rightfully so. But if that is the case, should he get credit as well for when he won with them? Can you have it one way and not the other?

The way I look at it he gets the credit for the run the had to win in '08 with no caveats. None. I don't give a shiit who built the team or whatever. He pushed the right buttons that year for them to succeed. He also deserves criticism for the rest of the time not winning more. That is reasonable and balanced, IMO.

I’m Cam Brady and I approve of this message.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Noll gave him a winner. Cowher gave Tomlin a winner.

What we have now is 100% Tomlin. It looks like ****. It's ******* soft and it isn't going to win ****. It hasn't been competitive with the best teams in the playoffs in a long long time. They get ***** slapped consistently.


Each year I hope they prove me wrong. Each year same ****** script.

Again, what did Cowher win with Noll’s players, besides a lot of games? I’ll tell you. He had one AFCC loss and a SB loss. Bill didn’t win his championship until long after Noll’s players had Moved on or retired. He loss three other AFCC as well (although two of those were noted via cheating by Belichick/Adams).

LOL…name a team besides KC, LAR and GB who still only has one SB in well over a decade. Don't count NWE or Marcia because Drink has the red hot poker for them cheating ********.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Look, I am not necessarily disagreeing with that. I just think that the guy that is the coach should get credit for success or failure. For example, Tomlin takes heat for not getting that team to win more during those years. Rightfully so. But if that is the case, should he get credit as well for when he won with them? Can you have it one way and not the other?

The way I look at it he gets the credit for the run the had to win in '08 with no caveats. None. I don't give a shiit who built the team or whatever. He pushed the right buttons that year for them to succeed. He also deserves criticism for the rest of the time not winning more. That is reasonable and balanced, IMO.

If you are of the opinion, as many are, that the team wins despite Mediocre Mike standing in their way of course you don’t give him credit when we win…we simply overcame his average abilities.

When he is out coached, as often happens, of course he is to be blamed as his average abilities cost us.

In short Mediocre Mike is essentially the Rudy of coaches. Yeah you can win when he’s out there, but ya usually aren’t winning because he’s out there. That’s why you can both blame him for losses and not credit him for wins.

When is the last time time you saw an extended period of Mediocre Mike showing upper echelon coaching prowess???