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Deflate-gate......God I hate the Pats!!!!

I heard Peter King is starting to say the Patriots balls might not have been 2lbs under with most 1lb under. I'm getting the direct stench of the NFL putting a story out there to pull back the issue and clear the Patriots. You cannot cook the Golden Goose and tarnish the Shield.
 
I heard Peter King is starting to say the Patriots balls might not have been 2lbs under with most 1lb under. I'm getting the direct stench of the NFL putting a story out there to pull back the issue and clear the Patriots. You cannot cook the Golden Goose and tarnish the Shield.

Would we expect anything other than a "spinmeister" approach from the Goodell led NFL? Hell, Belicheat is just a singular embodiment of the way the NFL treats fans: "We're smarter than you. So, we're going to do this our way and feed you a bunch of bullshit. Don't like it? Who cares? This is the way it's going to be because we are smarter than you. Plus, what else are you gonna watch?"
 
I'm not quoting the article. I said LOOK AT THE COMMENTS!!!

The general public is not as hell-bent on this issue as you guys are around here. That's my point. For some reason Steeler Nation uses no logic or reason when it comes to Patriots issues or Bill Belichick. Every small pushing of the rule envelope become the entire reason for their success. Even on the spygate issue I've disagreed with you guys numerous time as to it's importance and illegality at the time. I'm not going to rehash that.

Deflategate is the same thing. This message board is UNIQUE with it's vitriol and hatred of the Patriots. You are not normal on this issue and you are not in the majority and it's tough to take you seriously in a debate when your point of view is so emotionally invested and historically skewed from the facts.

You're probably the last one on Gilligan's Island...
 
I heard Peter King is starting to say the Patriots balls might not have been 2lbs under with most 1lb under. I'm getting the direct stench of the NFL putting a story out there to pull back the issue and clear the Patriots. You cannot cook the Golden Goose and tarnish the Shield.

That's bullshit.

Weak bullshit at that. The psi numbers were already released. They don't get off that easily. Goodell can suck it. The NFL is really treading on some thin ice here. They need to just bite the ******* bullet and sacrifice the cheaters. At this point the **s have made their own bed. If the NFL wants to save any credibility at all they need to do it before next season.

Brady and Bellichick need to be sent packin'. Particularly Bellichick and Adams. The referees need to be told to watch the **s VERY VERY carefully this weekend and call them for anything that even begins to look questionable and tell Brady and crew to shut the **** up if they even THINK to whine about it.

Cheating ******* don't even belong in the game. If they cheat their way to a victory (because you KNOW they'll cheat in the game, they cannot do otherwise. It's like a career drunk who'll get the shakes 45 minutes off the bottle) the NFL will just blow up. Just a ******* waste. May as well call it the WWE and be done with it.

A Seahawks blowout is about the only chance the NFL has to save any semblance of face this year. Ironically, they probably have to "fix" things to make it happen. The webs we weave when we practice to deceive. A line from Macbeth may be appropriate here...

“I am in blood stepped in so far that should I wade no more, Returning were as tedious as go o’er,”
 
That's bullshit.

Weak bullshit at that. The psi numbers were already released. They don't get off that easily. Goodell can suck it. The NFL is really treading on some thin ice here. They need to just bite the ******* bullet and sacrifice the cheaters. At this point the **s have made their own bed. If the NFL wants to save any credibility at all they need to do it before next season.

Brady and Bellichick need to be sent packin'. Particularly Bellichick and Adams. The referees need to be told to watch the **s VERY VERY carefully this weekend and call them for anything that even begins to look questionable and tell Brady and crew to shut the **** up if they even THINK to whine about it.

Cheating ******* don't even belong in the game. If they cheat their way to a victory (because you KNOW they'll cheat in the game, they cannot do otherwise. It's like a career drunk who'll get the shakes 45 minutes off the bottle) the NFL will just blow up. Just a ******* waste. May as well call it the WWE and be done with it.

A Seahawks blowout is about the only chance the NFL has to save any semblance of face this year. Ironically, they probably have to "fix" things to make it happen. The webs we weave when we practice to deceive. A line from Macbeth may be appropriate here...

Exactly where were the psi readings already released? Please link me to that. I am extremely curious.

You mean 11 balls were measured exactly 10.5 psi and one ball was measure 12.5 psi? Is that what you think?

Boy you guys really are stupid. The fact this stupidity is the basis of your arguments if exactly why I'm not really giving any of you the benefit of the doubt or even the courtesy of a polite debate anymore. Nobody here has their facts straight. And the fact I admit THE FACTS AREN'T KNOWN is precisely why my opinion is the most logical one. No one else even wants to admit that.
 
Exactly where were the psi readings already released? Please link me to that. I am extremely curious.

You mean 11 balls were measured exactly 10.5 psi and one ball was measure 12.5 psi? Is that what you think?

Boy you guys really are stupid. The fact this stupidity is the basis of your arguments if exactly why I'm not really giving any of you the benefit of the doubt or even the courtesy of a polite debate anymore. Nobody here has their facts straight. And the fact I admit THE FACTS AREN'T KNOWN is precisely why my opinion is the most logical one. No one else even wants to admit that.

You can't even keep your story straight. Which is it? Is it the Colts cheating (like you said first) OR did they set up the pats**? Hell you can't even get your own argument right. Talk about stupid. How is it your scientist buddies were able to deflate the balls in the exact same conditions but neither the pats** nor the Colts balls were deflated at the end of the game? Logical my ***.
 
A Seahawks blowout is about the only chance the NFL has to save any semblance of face this year. Ironically, they probably have to "fix" things to make it happen. The webs we weave when we practice to deceive. A line from Macbeth may be appropriate here...
Well said but you have to ask yourself, "What would Roger do?" I'm thinking that Rog is thinking it would be better for his favorite team and owner to win a post-Spygate post-Softballgate Super Bowl and get that monkey off their back, with a little help from the refs if need be. "See, see? We checked the psi of every football every five minutes the entire game", to keep your eye off the holding and PI calls or non-calls and spotting of the ball.
 
Boy you guys really are stupid. The fact this stupidity is the basis of your arguments if exactly why I'm not really giving any of you the benefit of the doubt or even the courtesy of a polite debate anymore. Nobody here has their facts straight. And the fact I admit THE FACTS AREN'T KNOWN is precisely why my opinion is the most logical one. No one else even wants to admit that.
This is your 2nd "I'm gonna bail from this thread" statement POP.

We do appreciate it.

I'll go try to find the sources (Which are numerous,) where the referees tested the **'s footballs at halftime and found them 2 lbs under pressure. This is where it was determined that they were fully 16% below the minimum required level. (That number wasn't just pulled out of somebody's ***.) It was reported. I'll find it.

You're just butt-hurt because we took your fake-science link and destroyed it with good old common-sense in about 42 seconds. Had you made any effort whatsoever to look at the video and think about it you'd have come to the same conclusion, but you're so desperate to turn the spotlight away from the enormity of the **'s predicament that you'll cling to ANY floating jetsam right now.

I get that. The Titanic's going down, the water's cold. But the love story's over man. Most of us just watched the movie to see the ship sink anyway dude. They cheat. That's ALL they do. Your sad, weak attempts to defend them are just stomach-turning.
 
I am not POP or whoever.

I am deljzc and only deljzc. I've been deljzc on every thread on every on-line message board in every chat room, in every on-line game I've played since 1994.

Honestly, truthfully, I am only posting under this name.
 
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You can't even keep your story straight. Which is it? Is it the Colts cheating (like you said first) OR did they set up the pats**? Hell you can't even get your own argument right. Talk about stupid. How is it your scientist buddies were able to deflate the balls in the exact same conditions but neither the pats** nor the Colts balls were deflated at the end of the game? Logical my ***.

The science guys didn't measure the exact same psi difference. They varied between 1.75 and 1.95 psi lower. And that was ONE very fixed experiment. Someone else said, what about actually USING the balls, or maybe some getting spiked or whatever else happens to them. I agree. We don't know what the balls were measured at 2 hours before the game either. I doubt they were all exactly 12.5 psi (like it was in the experiment).

Did you even WATCH the link I posted? Did you READ the article I posted from Eli Manning's guys?

I don't have any clue what the MO is and neither does anyone here. I know the refs have a gage AND pump available from the home team as they inspect the balls prior to the game, but doesn't anyone here know what happens when they find an underinflated ball? Do they pump it up to 12.5psi or 13psi? Do they reject it outright and ask for another ball? What happens when they reject a ball because of wear and tear? Who to they talk to? Is there an equipment guy in the room with them or is this done in private?

Where are the balls kept after they are inspected? In a 75 degree room or outside in game conditions?

How much drying of balls is allowed? Can you use a non-heated blower in addition to a towel? Where can you keep ball during a game? Only in a bag? Can a ball boy keep it under a jacket to keep it warm? Can they have a covered area to store the backup balls? How wet do balls really get in a rain game? Do balls that were previously soaked as part of they're "wearing in" process get more wet than balls that are more new and still have the shine on them? Do some quarterbacks like old balls (possibly all the way from pre-season use) vs. new balls (maybe new balls only slightly worn-in each week)?

I HAVE NO IDEA!!! And no one else here knows either.

I do know a science experiment showed balls can measurably lose 1.75 to 1.95 psi with very little change (only 20 degree temperature and soaking them in water). So if THAT's possible, the realm of other possibilities is probably limitless, thus unless you actually can prove ball boys/equipment men were tampering with the balls DURING the game (which is ILLEGAL), just because the psi is low does not mean anything.

I fully agree tampering with a game ball DURING THE GAME and AFTER THE INITIAL INSPECTION is illegal, although it's not the worse foul I've heard of (I think a lot teams try to warm up game balls during games as much as the referees allow - either by holding them against their bodies or under sweatshirts or whatever). If proof comes out of people using needles and actually deflating the balls, penalize them. I agree.

But the fact remains the psi difference of the balls alone is NOT PROOF OF THIS AT ALL.
 
Exactly where were the psi readings already released? Please link me to that. I am extremely curious....

Boy you guys really are stupid.

But former longtime NFL referee Gerry Austin, acting on information he said was from the league, told ESPN on Wednesday that 11 of the 12 Patriots balls tested at halftime were 2 pounds per square inch (PSI) below the NFL minimum of 12.5 psi and the 12th was at least 1 psi under the minimum.

http://nypost.com/2015/01/23/nfl-fin...e-controversy/
That pretty much puts that to bed.
 

That actually makes more sense. Again, the balls were not "exactly 2 psi", it was probably anything from 1.2 or 1.3 (rounded down to 1) up to and maybe even slightly over 2.0. And any/all range in between.

The would match with the idea the ORIGINAL balls provide to the refs were not all exactly 12.5 psi. Most likely they varied on the low side from 12.5 to 13.0. It would be interesting to know if the balls turned over for inspecting varied (or were all 12.5) because if they did vary wouldn't that further indicate the Patriots weren't THAT concerned with ball pressure? I mean if I was really trying to cheat, I'd give every ball to the refs at exactly 12.5 or 12.6 psi, right? We don't know that at all do we?
 
There are many links out there that tell you that the procedure if a ref finds an under inflated ball during the course of their initial inspection is for the ref to inflate the ball to within regulation limits. Now, does that mean 12.5 psi, 13.5 psi or somewhere in between? Couldn't tell ya.
It has also been reported that the balls used in the particular game in question were either re-inflated at half-time or swapped out for the 12 "extra" balls supplied by the Pats**. In any event, none of the balls used in the second half fell below regulation.
 
Where are the balls kept after they are inspected? In a 75 degree room or outside in game conditions?

From my previous post ---

JD: “The equipment manager will bring a bag of 12 or 24 footballs — it depends on the weather. The backup balls they’ll keep in the locker room or the replay room during the game. But those footballs come directly from each equipment manager in a bag, and once they go into the officials’ locker room, nobody has access to them except for the officials. So nobody can sneak in there and let the air out or put air in or do anything. There’s usually a security guard in there, so the footballs sit in the officials’ locker room for two hours until they go out onto the field

Read the rest of the article!!!
 
You're just bloviating and doing your best spin job. You started off saying that the pats** could have used warm air in the balls which would have deflated them during the game. Then I guess you realized how ignorant that was to say so you went to plan 2 where the Colts were the real cheaters by keeping the balls at a normal rate. Then I guess you realized how ignorant that sounded and moved to "these scientist tried it and this is why the balls were low". Then after getting called on that because all the ball were EXACTLY the same after the game even though they had been threw IDENTICAL weather as the pre-game balls you now turn to "Hell nobody knows and nobody can know."

I think you've come full circle now. The FACT is that to start the game all the balls were the same. FACT at half time ONLY the pats** balls were low. NONE of the Colts were low. After being inflated at half time NONE of the balls were low at the end of the game. So please show me ONE possible explanation that fits that criteria that doesn't have the pats** tampering with the balls.
 
Well said but you have to ask yourself, "What would Roger do?" I'm thinking that Rog is thinking it would be better for his favorite team and owner to win a post-Spygate post-Softballgate Super Bowl and get that monkey off their back, with a little help from the refs if need be.

No. Spygate has never been more relevant than it is right now. Favorite team or not, I doubt Goodell wants 95% of NFL fans thinking the Super Bowl Champ is a fraud and thanks in large part to spygate, they will.
 
So the refs took the cold, wet balls at halftime that were deflated by the weather and put more air in them. Makes sense they wouldn't "continue" to lose air pressure.

I still don't have a clue how the Colts balls didn't lose any air pressure during a cold, wet game. Scientifically, that's impossible.
 
So the refs took the cold, wet balls at halftime that were deflated by the weather and put more air in them. Makes sense they wouldn't "continue" to lose air pressure.

I still don't have a clue how the Colts balls didn't lose any air pressure during a cold, wet game. Scientifically, that's impossible.

Obviously it's not. How did ONE of the pats** ball stay at the right level?
 
There are many links out there that tell you that the procedure if a ref finds an under inflated ball during the course of their initial inspection is for the ref to inflate the ball to within regulation limits. Now, does that mean 12.5 psi, 13.5 psi or somewhere in between? Couldn't tell ya.
It has also been reported that the balls used in the particular game in question were either re-inflated at half-time or swapped out for the 12 "extra" balls supplied by the Pats**. In any event, none of the balls used in the second half fell below regulation.

I would bet that they inflate them to the same PSI as the other balls supplied.
 
The Patriots cheated...AGAIN. Period. The ******* arrogant jaggoffs dont want to play by the rules and something needs to be done to set the tone for these ********.
 
Looking at this in another light, we can see that the NFL has left itself a whole lot of options in this matter. What's telling to me is not what the league said or the information provided, but what it didn't say or provide.

1. The league admits that all of the Pats** and Colts footballs were checked by the ref in accordance with league guidelines at the specified time prior to the game. The league states that all footballs were within regulation at that time. What they don't say is what psi were the footballs at (Pats** or Colts). Do they just check them without writing down what the initial psi for each ball is?

2. We've heard the 2lbs under inflation level for the Pats** balls from ESPN and other sources. In their statement, the NFL seems to studiously avoid mentioning a specific number. This allows them to say that the reporters who have used 2 Lbs psi were mistaken.

3. Also, we are only told that the Colts balls checked in at regulation at all times. This does not mean that they did not lose any psi, just that they were within regulation at all times. Has anyone seen a report about the Colts footballs losing air pressure yet remaining within regulations. It would have been nice if the NFL clarified this point.

4. There have been conflicting reports as to whether the Pats** footballs were re-inflated at half-time or the 12 extra footballs supplied by the Pats** replaced the under inflated footballs. Clarification on this point would be nice. Maybe I missed it.

In essence, the NFL has provided a statement that confirmed the basics of what we know, but dodged some of the important issues. I wouldn't put it past them to make this up as they go along. The outcome of their investigation to be determined by how much outrage or negative publicity remains after the Super Bowl. In essence, the NFL is investigating the Pats** for possibly cheating while leaving itself enough wiggle room to "fudge" the outcome of that investigation (i.e. cheat).
 
How much drying of balls is allowed? Can you use a non-heated blower in addition to a towel? Where can you keep ball during a game? Only in a bag? Can a ball boy keep it under a jacket to keep it warm? Can they have a covered area to store the backup balls? How wet do balls really get in a rain game? Do balls that were previously soaked as part of they're "wearing in" process get more wet than balls that are more new and still have the shine on them?

The problem with these suppositions is that there is no discernible benefit to using a properly-inflated ball as compared to using an under-inflated one. By all accounts, a warm, dry ball at 12.5psi is harder to grip and catch than one at 10.5 - 11psi. Period, end of story. So why would the Colts (or anyone) go to any lengths to keep balls warm, dry and ensure that they remain fully-inflated throughout the game? If anything, and the deflation is just part of exposure to the elements during the game, all of the balls deflating somewhat shouldn't be a concern because if they all deflate roughly equally over the course of the game, neither team has a specific advantage.

About the only conspiracy theory you could logically advance here is that the Colts KNEW the balls would deflate naturally (and I don't think that anyone is disputing the physical science behind pressure and temperature changes), and they specifically did something to artificially keep all 12 of their balls at the proper pressure, so they could point to the difference and claim the Patriots were cheating. But why would you do that, knowing that it won't help you win the game anyway? So that along with contributing to the Pats' legacy of cheating, you can also establish your own as a bunch of whiny sore losers, or possibly cheaters yourself? Seems like a lose-lose proposition.

Do some quarterbacks like old balls (possibly all the way from pre-season use) vs. new balls (maybe new balls only slightly worn-in each week)?

Interesting that you bring this up. There's a recent WaPo article that brings to light the fact that Tom Brady himself spearheaded a proposed 2006 rule change allowing teams to provide their own balls, prepared to their players' (usually the QB's) preferences.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...on-manning-and-other-qbs-created-deflategame/

To quote Brady:

“Some like them blown up a little bit more, some like them a little more thin, some like them a little more new, some like them really broken in.”

So given that, according to the WaPo article I linked, that rule change was accepted, the NFL Rules digest is out of date, because it still says the home team will provide 36 balls for outdoor games, 24 for indoor games, and 12 special, new-in-the-box kicking balls. One of the arguments Eli Manning gave in support of the rule change was that it would be patently unfair if the home team could give the visiting team a shiny, new, slick ball at a critical point in the game and expect them to do as well with it.

This is the best reference to the full, current rule I could easily find (http://heavy.com/sports/2015/01/rules-policy-deflated-balls-reason-patriots-air-pressure/):

Rule 2, Section 2 of the Rule Book addressed the preparation that goes into getting the game balls ready. This is a process that includes the teams providing their own balls and the refs checking and marking them.

Each team will make 12 primary balls available for testing by the Referee two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game to meet League requirements. The home team will also make 12 backup balls available for testing in all stadiums. In addition, the visitors, at their discretion, may bring 12 backup balls to be tested by the Referee for games held in outdoor stadiums. For all games, eight new footballs, sealed in a special box and shipped by the manufacturer to the Referee, will be opened in the officials’ locker room two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game.

These balls are to be specially marked by the Referee and used exclusively for the kicking game.

In the event a home team ball does not conform to specifications, or its supply is exhausted, the Referee shall secure a proper ball from the visitors and, failing that, use the best available ball. Any such circumstances must be reported to the Commissioner.

In case of rain or a wet, muddy, or slippery field, a playable ball shall be used at the request of the offensive team’s center.

The Game Clock shall not stop for such action (unless undue delay occurs).

Note: It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing field.

I guess ostensibly, you could argue that, since the Pats employ the attendants on the visitor's sideline, they could have instructed them to do something to keep the visitors' balls from deflating, but again, to what end?
 
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Del, Will you STOP SPINNING! You are making yourself dizzy and it's embarrassing.

That actually makes more sense. Again, the balls were not "exactly 2 psi", it was probably anything from 1.2 or 1.3 (rounded down to 1) up to and maybe even slightly over 2.0. And any/all range in between.

"But former longtime NFL referee Gerry Austin, acting on information he said was from the league, told ESPN on Wednesday that 11 of the 12 Patriots balls tested at halftime were 2 pounds per square inch (PSI) below the NFL minimum of 12.5 psi and the 12th was at least 1 psi under the minimum."

http://nypost.com/2015/01/23/nfl-fin...e-controversy/

That means that 11 balls were ******* 10.5 psi.

Man. Give it the **** UP!

They Cheated. Go Home. Build a little tent fort. Get into the fetal position. Do whatever you need to do. But Stop with the ridiculous spin job. You're not intelligent enough to come up with anything that makes any ******* sense.

All the **** is piling up at the foot of the wall.
 
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