Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

[ark steel]

The more the owner of my company gets to keep, the more he has to pay me.

I can tell you, for a fact, that many of my clients are willing to give less to their employees in the form of profit sharing contributions when the idea of tax credits are threatened or removed or medicaid reimbursements are threatened. The **** rolls downhill.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

I'll never understand why this debate only understands whole numbers. Forget 1% and $500k, what about the .01%? Those making $50 million (or whatever).

The 10%ers and the 5%ers are paying too much, the .01% ers aren't paying nearly enough.

I don't want to hear some guy who just outbid another guy on a $15 million classic car ***** that he is taxed unfairly.

here you demonstrate the basic liberal misunderstanding of economics. Liberals are always concerned with the optics, not the results. Their philosophy is rooted in an emotional need to stick it to rich people, so they support any measure that would supposedly hurt the rich. They support higher tax rates which are proven to actually collect less revenue.

Conservatives also want to get at the rich's money. Let's face it, that is what makes an economy go. You aren't going to get money from poor people. The difference conservative economic policies are based in reality, and not on a combination of envy or guilt.

Conservatives recognize that when tax rates are lower, the revenue actually goes up. It's simple. Rich people don't jump through as many hoops to avoid paying taxes when the rate is reasonable.

The other difference is liberals think the economy works better when the government drives it. Conservative think it works better when it is based on consumer spending. That means people must actually have money to spend.

This is why the conservative want to give tax breaks. It's because they would rather a guy spend $15 Million on a classic car than pay that to the government. Why? Because the government will just waste it whereas the $15 Million spent on consumer good will support many different businesses and jobs. More businesses paying taxes. More tax collected from more workers. More workers buying their kid a new Xbox, etc.

Case in point. UPS, FedEx, DHL, all make billions, employ thousands, and provide excellent service. The Post office is broke and guess which one costs most to operate?

Reality is the difference between liberals and conservatives. Conservatives simply know the truth that the government is terrible at providing services and should be as small as possible. Liberals live in a fantasy world where government spends money wisely and gets great results for the money spent.

 

[Troglodyte]

Really? You DO know who donates all those billions of dollars for elections, right?

Right, so the tax code isn't controlling the rich at all, the rich are controlling the politicians.

 

[Troglodyte]

It's simple. Rich people don't jump through as many hoops to avoid paying taxes when the rate is reasonable.

Conservatives simply know the truth that the government is terrible at providing services and should be as small as possible.

Oh, please! People will jump through hoops to avoid paying taxes regardless of rates.

When was the last time the size of the federal government got smaller under any administration? What does the federal government spend the most money on, and which conservative candidate is proposing cutting those programs?

 

[Hineswardkickedurpanzyass]

which conservative candidate is proposing cutting those programs?

The Tea Party and Libertarian candidates. Any more questions?

 

[Rod Farva]

Yes, because "everybody should pay less" is such a strong argument.

It most certainly is and I've yet to see where you (or anyone else) have proven otherwise.

if our government was interested in controlling wealth, we certainly wouldn't have people worth hundreds of millions or billions.

I'm not a 1%er, but I know finances and life get easier as you attain wealth. Taxes don't sting nearly as much when you're not financing anything.

It's not about controlling wealth so much as it has become about control generally.

You will struggle long and mightily to prove that government has any more right to the gains of the rich than they do anyone else. Remember those those who pay no taxes receive substantial "refunds" which is a totally disingenuous misnomer.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

You will struggle long and mightily to prove that government has any more right to the gains of the rich than they do anyone else. Remember those those who pay no taxes receive substantial "refunds" which is a totally disingenuous misnomer.

They also use and receive more government services. I think income tax should use the same principle as the highway tax where you are taxed based on the proportion of benefits received. Poor people would pay a higher rate since they use more govt services and as your income goes up your tax rate goes down. That would give people an incentive to get jobs, be more productive, and seek higher incomes.

 

[DBS1970]

The interesting thing to me is how people on the left ignore that SSI is already bankrupt. Sooner or later our creditors will quit fronting us the money to pay out the Ponzi scam. When that happens will FedGov let the oldsters starve in order to keep the EBT Cards working and keep the inner city dwellers from rioting?

The bottom line is one way or the other our government will be getting smaller. The question is will it be the hard way after a collapse, or will it be the easy way through a voluntary restructuring?

 

[ZonaBurgh]

Gotta love the mentality of the left. A guy 20 years younger than me comes into my pharmacy yesterday with a tee shirt on with "Tax The Rich" in large bold letters on both the front and back.

Walks up to the pick up window and the tech tries to help him but he was too busy with his cell phone and pointed at her to wait for him.

Then he complains why he can't get another refill on 30 days worth of carisoprodol that he picked up 10 days earlier. And of course he gets all of this on the public's dime.

 

[JupiterBnG]

I'll never understand why this debate only understands whole numbers. Forget 1% and $500k, what about the .01%? Those making $50 million (or whatever).

The 10%ers and the 5%ers are paying too much, the .01% ers aren't paying nearly enough.

I don't want to hear some guy who just outbid another guy on a $15 million classic car ***** that he is taxed unfairly.

The difference between the 10% guy and the .01% guy is that all of the 10% guy's money is income, while the .01% guy's money has already been taxed (when it was first earned) and is in the form of wealth. Bill Gates doesn't MAKE billions of dollars a year, but he's WORTH billions... in assets that he's already been taxed on. And which are probably depreciable, creating sizable tax advantages for him at the same time.

That is the subtle nuance that anyone who screams about mega-billionaires not paying enough taxes doesn't understand.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Oh, please! People will jump through hoops to avoid paying taxes regardless of rates.

When was the last time the size of the federal government got smaller under any administration? What does the federal government spend the most money on, and which conservative candidate is proposing cutting those programs?

Do you just conveniently skip over images and text that don't fit your ill-conceived preconceived notions? This graph, from page 1, gives you a good idea, at least with regards to debt (one measure of the "size of an administration") who's increased it and left what burden behind...

 

[USDA#1]

Stop buying missiles, the subs to shoot them, planes that can't ******* fly, all that ****, and playing world cop in general.

stop putting people in jail for 38 years for a half ounce of weed.


and...VOILA....****'s handled.

 

[USDA#1]

take TS's chart and track which President's were anti-central banking, with the exception of Lincoln, who had a civil war to fight.

notice what happens after 1913.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Stop buying missiles, the subs to shoot them, planes that can't ******* fly, all that ****, and playing world cop in general.

stop putting people in jail for 38 years for a half ounce of weed.


and...VOILA....****'s handled.

Or you could also stop putting Socialist, Liberal Democrats into the White House that amass **** tons of debt they leave to Americans.

Voila!

 

[21STEELERS21]

So if the 1% are paying 50%, how was Romney paying less than 15%? Is Romney that much smarter than the other 1% ers?
How does GE pay zero taxes? Don't they use the same roads and bridges as everyone else and have their assets protected by
the military. Where is big businesses fair share?

 

[USDA#1]

Or you could also stop putting Socialist, Liberal Democrats into the White House that amass **** tons of debt they leave to Americans.

Voila!

yer chart sez yer....not exactly right.


one snake, two heads.

the sooner people stop buying into this whole Con vs.Lib, (R) vs. (D), Red vs. Blue bullshit the MSM feeds you, the sooner we might get this sorted.

but people are SOOOO *******....programmed...I doubt it happens.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

So if the 1% are paying 50%, how was Romney paying less than 15%? Is Romney that much smarter than the other 1% ers?
How does GE pay zero taxes? Don't they use the same roads and bridges as everyone else and have their assets protected by
the military. Where is big businesses fair share?

Those are GREAT questions 21. Tell you what, I'll answer yours if you answer mine. I'm in the 10%, at times, certain years in the 5%. Why is my tax rate 48%? Why am I paying far more than my fair share?

 

[USDA#1]

COS YOU DON"T HAVE MITT'S TAX GUY.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Gotta love the mentality of the left. A guy 20 years younger than me comes into my pharmacy yesterday with a tee shirt on with "Tax The Rich" in large bold letters on both the front and back.

Walks up to the pick up window and the tech tries to help him but he was too busy with his cell phone and pointed at her to wait for him.

Then he complains why he can't get another refill on 30 days worth of carisoprodol that he picked up 10 days earlier. And of course he gets all of this on the public's dime.

At least he's up front about it and not a hypocrite. "I want my free **** that other people pay for and I will vote for Democrats who will do that for me."

 

[ark steel]

So if the 1% are paying 50%, how was Romney paying less than 15%? Is Romney that much smarter than the other 1% ers?
How does GE pay zero taxes? Don't they use the same roads and bridges as everyone else and have their assets protected by
the military. Where is big businesses fair share?

again, what is their 'fair share'? Whatever you or your liberal elected officials determine is needed to punish the company for having 'too much excess'. In the end, the company doesn't, REALLY, pay taxes as prices that consumers pay go up (not quite 1-1, I imagine), such that most taxes are paid, essentially, by the people.

In any event, GE might have paid $0 federal income tax, but I imagine they paid a **** load of actual taxes. For example, all of the fuel taxes they paid to keep their corporate vehicles on the road, all of the Chevy Volts they bought to from Government Motors to allow GM to show that the car will sell and keep access to the Oval Office (j/k, sorta), the 'company share' of SS and Medicare taxes (which I imagine is huge), all of the local sales taxes they pay when the company buys things in local markets. I doubt that is everything.

As far as Romney, he paid 15% (if that is even true) because his income is, I presume, mostly based upon dividends and/or capital gains rather than salary. Lower taxes on dividends and capital gains are in the code to encourage investment. If I have to pay full income tax on a certain investment, I am less likely to make that investment, which could be considered a hindrance on the economy when people won't invest. In addition, if I own a company and have $300,000 profit, if I pay that to myself as salary, I am paying SS and Medicaid on that amount. However, if I pay that to myself as a dividend, I pay lower taxes, overall. What do I choose...? Hmmm...

In the end, as I said, the tax code is meant to control and punish, rather than raise revenue, anyway.

I don't think you understand what "1% are paying 50% of taxes" means since you wonder

,So if the 1% are paying 50%, how was Romney paying less than 15%? Is Romney that much smarter than the other 1% ers?

In a simplistic world where you have 100 people and 1 person makes 100 million dollars and pays 15% income taxes, 47 people make less than $40k and pay no income taxes (and some of those even get "refunds"), you can see (well, maybe YOU can't, but the rest of us can) where that $15,000,000 can be 50% of the total income taxes paid.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

The standard deduction is so high now that only The Rich have access to most deductions anyway. I don't make enough money that I have more than $10,000 to give away to my church or mortgage interest or property taxes so I can deduct it.

 

[ark steel]

Gotta love the mentality of the left. A guy 20 years younger than me comes into my pharmacy yesterday with a tee shirt on with "Tax The Rich" in large bold letters on both the front and back.

Walks up to the pick up window and the tech tries to help him but he was too busy with his cell phone and pointed at her to wait for him.

Then he complains why he can't get another refill on 30 days worth of carisoprodol that he picked up 10 days earlier. And of course he gets all of this on the public's dime.

I work in the retirement plan field. We had a call the other day. The person is receiving a monthly pension from their former employer. This is money the employer set aside (voluntarily) to help provide some semblance of a lifetime retirement benefit for their employees. The person wanted to have the amount reduced (illegal, btw) so that it wouldn't cause her welfare benefits to decrease. And not the first time, i've had to field that question.

I believe our fellow 1%, Mr. Burgandy, has had employees approach him about cutting their hours so they don't lose their welfare benefits.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I believe our fellow 1%, Mr. Burgandy, has had employees approach him about cutting their hours so they don't lose their welfare benefits.

This is true. There have also been heated discussions at company meetings (I own two franchises of a nationally-known company) where owners of larger franchises have told the company to take their mandatory sales growth targets and stuff them up their *** because they were not going to take more business such that they would need more than 50 employees and have to pay for BommaCare for everyone because they would lose money.

 

[USDA#1]

so...

the poor don't show enough gratitude to the middle classes....'cos you read or heard it somewhere.

and who owns the media?

the upper class that feeds you this storybook, and doesn't give a flying **** about you.

 

[Coach]

Well worth sharing with your Liberal and Occupy friends.

Lee Ohanian, Professor of Economics, UCLA

• A top 10% household makes $150,000/year
• A top 5% household makes $190,000/year
• A top 1% household makes $500,000/year
• What is fair? Fair would seem that those who make 10% of the country's income would pay 10% of the country's taxes, those who make 20% would pay 20% of the taxes, and so on
• According to IRS data, the top 10% of all earners, those making $150,000 and above, pay 71% of all federal income tax while earning only 43% of all income.
• If anything, the top 10% pay more than their fair share
• The top 1% earns 17% of all income, but pay 37% of all federal taxes
• Those who make $45,000 or less, 47% of all earners, pay little and often no income taxes
• The US Tax system is substantially more progressive (meaning tax rates rise as income rises) than other advanced countries like Germany and Sweden
• If you think our tax system is unfair because it coddles high earners, then you must conclude the tax systems in these other countries are even more unfair.
• So how high are tax rates on Americans today? Throw in Federal Tax increases mandated in 2013 and state taxes, and top earners face a tax rate of more than 50% in California and New York
• Maryland and Connecticut are not far behind
• Do you think a tax rate of 50% is fair? If so, what rate wouldn't be?

Remember, at the time of the American Revolution, there was no Income Tax (that didn't come till the next century) and it's rumored that those in the North were taxed about 1% by Great Britain, those in the South, 3%. The idea of being taxed without representation was one of the sparks leading to war.

Today, we have representation, yet some of us are paying 50% of what we earn in taxes...

A tough question. If there is a great need for infrastructure, a major war, or a natural disaster of biblical proportions, I am for raising taxes on those in the top 10% to repair the nation.

Outside of that 39.6% is enough for federal income tax. We have too much wasteful spending, and fat cats on pensions.

I am however somewhat concerned about social security for retired people and think the nation would be better off if the the tax extends beyond the $118,500 limit to assure its there when those born in the 1960's and 1970's retire.