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Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

so...

the poor don't show enough gratitude to the middle classes....'cos you read or heard it somewhere.

That isn't the point of any of this. I think the points are rather simple

- Why should the middle class and upper middle class pay taxes at such an extraordinarily high rate?
- Why shouldn't tax rates, effectively, be equal for all Americans?
- Why are our progressive taxes one of the highest in the world?
- Why do we, Americans, continue to support such a bloated, wasteful Government through these taxes, a Government that refuses to streamline and provide effective...anything?
 
That isn't the point of any of this. I think the points are rather simple

- Why should the middle class and upper middle class pay taxes at such an extraordinarily high rate?
- Why shouldn't tax rates, effectively, be equal for all Americans?
- Why are our progressive taxes one of the highest in the world?
- Why do we, Americans, continue to support such a bloated, wasteful Government through these taxes, a Government that refuses to streamline and provide effective...anything?

- because the people that planned this system as it now doesn't function ****** up.
- I think they should be...including the so called "International" corporations that recently re-won the rights to be treated as private citizens.
- because we, per capita, probably have more **** to deal with than most countries.,,,like playing World Cop, for one...and the fall out from point one.
- I have no clue...probably because the majority of people that consider themselves "informed" voters, really aren't....or we'd have a **** ton more (L)'s and (I)'s elected every voting cycle.
 
So if the 1% are paying 50%, how was Romney paying less than 15%? Is Romney that much smarter than the other 1% ers?
How does GE pay zero taxes? Don't they use the same roads and bridges as everyone else and have their assets protected by
the military. Where is big businesses fair share?

Romney was at 15% because of a tax loophole that is also utilized by Warren Buffet. It allows certain types of income to taxed at this level. Buffet, an Obama supporter, wanted this loophole removed, or at least he stated that publicly. For over two years, a Democrat President, a Democrat Congress and a Democrat Senate did nothing. Some of the other guys got in power, and they also have done nothing to change this. And Mr. Buffet has gone silent on this issue. What really happened?
 
There are only about 200,000 households in the United States who earn $1 million/year or more. Only around 8000 who earn 10 million or more. Around 100 households make 50 million or more. Even if we made these people hand over every nickel it wouldn't be a drop in the behemoth of a bucket that is our federal budget. And let's not forget the enormous amount of money that people of this level of income spend consuming, producing, hiring, investing, and donating to charity. Who suffers if all or most of that goes away? Hint: It's not rich people.
 
So if the 1% are paying 50%, how was Romney paying less than 15%? Is Romney that much smarter than the other 1% ers?
How does GE pay zero taxes? Don't they use the same roads and bridges as everyone else and have their assets protected by
the military. Where is big businesses fair share?

I already answered this question. We have a federal INCOME tax. People who have amassed many millions or billions of dollars of net worth can afford to have essentially ZERO income, and therefore pay little or no income taxes. It's only considered income when you realize it monetarily - i.e., a paycheck, interest income, stocks, etc. When you already own everything you need, you actually have very few expenses outside of basic subsistence, which really doesn't add up to that much if you don't insist on eating $300/oz caviar, lobster tails and chateaubriand three meals a day.

It also stands to reason that many rich people got that way by being frugal and being very careful with their expenditures, so just because you have millions in the bank doesn't mean you have to have an extravagant lifestyle. Bill Gates can get by on an electric bill that's the same as any low-income person's bill. Someone could have a billion dollars in the bank, but have a poverty-level income which pays their essential expenses. Furthermore, a lot of that personal wealth tends to be tied up in corporations - both as a capital investment and as a tax shelter. Mit Romney may be worth millions, but probably has various trusts, private corporations or other legal mechanisms set up to manage his money and expenses, and keep his income in that 15% tax bracket.

Tax shelters are a bit of a shell game, but completely legal, and technically available to everyone, not just the rich. The only thing stopping you or me from leveraging those loopholes is a lack of money to pay the experts to manage our money for us (or the expertise and/or time to do it ourselves). If you were to create an incredibly detailed, precise budget and were able to put every spare penny imaginable into sheltered investments and accounts, you too could live at or below the 15% marginal tax rate. Again, not a privilege limited to the rich - if you want to avail yourself of the same things, either work harder, work smarter, or pay someone to work harder and smarter for you. It doesn't just happen because someone is rich, there's a lot of effort. And somewhat ironically, when a rich person pays an accountant or lawyer to do this kind of work, they're directly or indirectly creating jobs in the process.

Corporate taxes are a different ball of wax. Everyone wants to tax corporations, but fails to see the bigger picture, which is that taxes are, to a corporation, an expense that simply gets passed right back to the consumer. So every item you've ever bought already includes a built-in markup in the price that you will never see listed anywhere, which offsets the corporation's tax liability by some small amount. Taxing corporations is another way of saying "let's have a consumer tax."
 
Taxing corporations is another way of saying "let's have a consumer tax."

And also a way of saying "Please incorporate elsewhere".
 
Liberals think they understand simple business concepts. It's pretty funny...
 
I already answered this question. We have a federal INCOME tax. People who have amassed many millions or billions of dollars of net worth can afford to have essentially ZERO income, and therefore pay little or no income taxes. It's only considered income when you realize it monetarily - i.e., a paycheck, interest income, stocks, etc. When you already own everything you need, you actually have very few expenses outside of basic subsistence, which really doesn't add up to that much if you don't insist on eating $300/oz caviar, lobster tails and chateaubriand three meals a day.

It also stands to reason that many rich people got that way by being frugal and being very careful with their expenditures, so just because you have millions in the bank doesn't mean you have to have an extravagant lifestyle. Bill Gates can get by on an electric bill that's the same as any low-income person's bill. Someone could have a billion dollars in the bank, but have a poverty-level income which pays their essential expenses. Furthermore, a lot of that personal wealth tends to be tied up in corporations - both as a capital investment and as a tax shelter. Mit Romney may be worth millions, but probably has various trusts, private corporations or other legal mechanisms set up to manage his money and expenses, and keep his income in that 15% tax bracket.

Tax shelters are a bit of a shell game, but completely legal, and technically available to everyone, not just the rich. The only thing stopping you or me from leveraging those loopholes is a lack of money to pay the experts to manage our money for us (or the expertise and/or time to do it ourselves). If you were to create an incredibly detailed, precise budget and were able to put every spare penny imaginable into sheltered investments and accounts, you too could live at or below the 15% marginal tax rate. Again, not a privilege limited to the rich - if you want to avail yourself of the same things, either work harder, work smarter, or pay someone to work harder and smarter for you. It doesn't just happen because someone is rich, there's a lot of effort. And somewhat ironically, when a rich person pays an accountant or lawyer to do this kind of work, they're directly or indirectly creating jobs in the process.

Corporate taxes are a different ball of wax. Everyone wants to tax corporations, but fails to see the bigger picture, which is that taxes are, to a corporation, an expense that simply gets passed right back to the consumer. So every item you've ever bought already includes a built-in markup in the price that you will never see listed anywhere, which offsets the corporation's tax liability by some small amount. Taxing corporations is another way of saying "let's have a consumer tax."

Don't forget that, if you get rid of some of those tax shelters, Ark will be unemployed and have nothing left to do but post here more often.
 
Liberals think they understand simple business concepts. It's pretty funny...
That's one reason why very few Liberals own businesses.
 
I think the first thing the government needs to do is fix their spending. There's no reason for tax increases EVER. As the population increases there should be more working people paying taxes and thus naturally it will increase tax revenue to support the rising population. But instead the government keeps taxing more and more for more and more entitlements squeezing out the middle class. I don't think the middle class should be taxed since the middle class runs the economy. And I think you should never get more back than you pay in. I see every tax season people with five kids and no job get 15k back. How in gods name can you get money back when all you did all year is live in subsidized housing, have subsidized health care, have a subsidized car, and a subsidized phone, and subsidized heat and electric, and subsidized food. Why do they get money when they get everything for FREE. I also support a raise in minimum wage along with a 10% raise for everyone making less than 100k a year. Don't just increase the wages of the fast food worker increase the wages of the engineers, teachers, mechanics etc and everyone will benefit.

Too many problems for democracy to work at this point. I am just waiting for the revolution.
 
I think the first thing the government needs to do is fix their spending. There's no reason for tax increases EVER. As the population increases there should be more working people paying taxes and thus naturally it will increase tax revenue to support the rising population. But instead the government keeps taxing more and more for more and more entitlements squeezing out the middle class. I don't think the middle class should be taxed since the middle class runs the economy. And I think you should never get more back than you pay in. I see every tax season people with five kids and no job get 15k back. How in gods name can you get money back when all you did all year is live in subsidized housing, have subsidized health care, have a subsidized car, and a subsidized phone, and subsidized heat and electric, and subsidized food. Why do they get money when they get everything for FREE. I also support a raise in minimum wage along with a 10% raise for everyone making less than 100k a year. Don't just increase the wages of the fast food worker increase the wages of the engineers, teachers, mechanics etc and everyone will benefit.

Too many problems for democracy to work at this point. I am just waiting for the revolution.

Yes, let's get the money fairy on that 10% raise for everyone. Because we all know no one else has to actually pay for that.
 
Do you guys even know how to calculate your tax percentage? You take the amount you pay divided by the gross. I'm in the 10% and the majority of mine is income.
My federal liability has always been less than 15% and I consider it a bargain. I itemize and have a mortgage and always maximize my 401K. Anyone who thinks they
pay 48% doesn't understand math. It's nearly impossible to pay 48% in the United States.

Many think the poor use more government services, but the well off use a lot more. I know a lot of poor people who have never been out of the state they were born in.
Many don't use highways, they never fly in planes, don't need FDIC insurance because they have money in the bank, never been to a National Park, don't need the military because they would still be poor no matter who ran the country, don't get much police protection, don't get to go to sports events where stadiums have been subsidized by taxpayers, etc...

Who benefited from the financial bailout: those with money or those with nothing?
 
Do you guys even know how to calculate your tax percentage? You take the amount you pay divided by the gross. I'm in the 10% and the majority of mine is income.
My federal liability has always been less than 15% and I consider it a bargain. I itemize and have a mortgage and always maximize my 401K. Anyone who thinks they
pay 48% doesn't understand math. It's nearly impossible to pay 48% in the United States.

Many think the poor use more government services, but the well off use a lot more. I know a lot of poor people who have never been out of the state they were born in.
Many don't use highways, they never fly in planes, don't need FDIC insurance because they have money in the bank, never been to a National Park, don't need the military because they would still be poor no matter who ran the country, don't get much police protection, don't get to go to sports events where stadiums have been subsidized by taxpayers, etc...

Who benefited from the financial bailout: those with money or those with nothing?

It is laughable that you, of all people, would try to teach us anything about numbers. Q: If the 48% tax rate doesn't mean anything, why the hell is it there? A: Because it looks good to the uninformed, because the uninformed don't think or know or understand deductions.

I don't understand why you itemize and maximize your 401k. Why aren't YOU willing to pay YOUR "fair share" on all this massive income you have?

Many think the poor use more government services, but the well off use a lot more. I know a lot of poor people who have never been out of the state they were born in.
Many don't use highways, they never fly in planes, don't need FDIC insurance because they have money in the bank, never been to a National Park, don't need the military because they would still be poor no matter who ran the country, don't get much police protection, don't get to go to sports events where stadiums have been subsidized by taxpayers, etc...

More cobbled together bullshit. If you really had the income level you claim, you would understand the difference between economic phrases like public goods and private goods.

Poor people pay $0 income tax and some actually get refunds.

The poor don't use highways? How do they get groceries, from the ******* grocery fairy? Don't they go to a grocery store some way? How do you think all that stuff gets into a grocery store? People like DoucheBagS driving trucks full of foodstuffs all over the country on, wait for it....roads.

The poor don't use the police or military? What a ******* joke. WE ALL DO. It is why you can drive down the road (you know, if you are not poor) and not be hit by some jihad-****'s missle or assailed by road-pirates ala MadMax. There is a **** ton of difference between being poor no matter who runs the country and being a slave because the military wasn't there to keep the wrong people out.

you are approaching Elfie stupid on this.
 
http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/EITC-Income-Limits,-Maximum-Credit--Amounts-and-Tax-Law-Updates

Above is the maximum earned income tax credits. Its impossible for any family to get anywhere near 15K refunded to them.
If you make 47K with 3 or more kids the max credit is $6,143. The credit goes down against the tax liability and someone with
47K income would have liability, so they couldn't receive the entire $6,143.

The federal tax rates apply to taxable income and the rates are progressive. If you want to know your personal federal tax rate, take the amount you owe divided by gross income (before any deductions). Federal tax liability is pretty much as low as its been in the past 50 years.
 
I want to know why 21 doesn't pay his fair share and screws the federal government from getting it's money by taking deductions.
 
Well, ****. He doesn't even pay his fair share here. All that income and he can't fork over $6/month for the site. He gets all this education (which he ignores) for ******* free.
 
Do you guys even know how to calculate your tax percentage? You take the amount you pay divided by the gross. I'm in the 10% and the majority of mine is income.
My federal liability has always been less than 15% and I consider it a bargain. I itemize and have a mortgage and always maximize my 401K. Anyone who thinks they
pay 48% doesn't understand math. It's nearly impossible to pay 48% in the United States.

Many think the poor use more government services, but the well off use a lot more. I know a lot of poor people who have never been out of the state they were born in.
Many don't use highways, they never fly in planes, don't need FDIC insurance because they have money in the bank, never been to a National Park, don't need the military because they would still be poor no matter who ran the country, don't get much police protection, don't get to go to sports events where stadiums have been subsidized by taxpayers, etc...

Who benefited from the financial bailout: those with money or those with nothing?

You're only considering Federal...not state. Notice in the video, when he discusses some being taxed at 50% - Californians being one of them - it includes State taxes as well.

SMH
 
There are only about 200,000 households in the United States who earn $1 million/year or more. Only around 8000 who earn 10 million or more. Around 100 households make 50 million or more. Even if we made these people hand over every nickel it wouldn't be a drop in the behemoth of a bucket that is our federal budget. And let's not forget the enormous amount of money that people of this level of income spend consuming, producing, hiring, investing, and donating to charity. Who suffers if all or most of that goes away? Hint: It's not rich people.

Good point and I think it's why Obama proposed the increase at $200/250k. I suspect the ugly truth is this country needs the middle class and especially the upper middle class tax dollars now more than ever.

But I don't buy the trickle down theory that giving money back to the 200,000 households who have more than they really need is better than giving it to the 80.000.000 households who don't.
 
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But I don't buy the trickle down theory that giving money back to the 200,000 households who have more than they really need is better than giving it to the 800,000 households who don't.

We're not talking about giving it to the 800,000 who don't. We're talking about giving it to a bloated federal government and then funneling it through layers of wasteful bureaucracy to the masses.

We are collecting record amounts of tax revenue and spending more than since the Depression on welfare programs, yet wages are stagnant, income inequality is rising more than ever and poverty is up. How do you explain that? Maybe your trickle-down government theory doesn't work?

You know where wages are sky-high, unemployment is at record lows and good jobs are plentiful? Washington DC and the surrounding suburbs. Guess who's benefiting from all that spending? It isn't your average factory worker. Please spare me the altruism theories. It's all about a money grab, nothing more.
 
We're not talking about GIVING it to anyone. Income tax is about how much the government confiscates from it's citizens. Liberals love taxes because it punishes certain people while giving away other people's money to their buddies... Solyndra anyone? Green energy anyone? Big dig anyone? Unions?
 
this just in...

so called Conservatives in government have pork barrels too.
 
this just in...

so called Conservatives in government have pork barrels too.

this just in...

everybody knows that.... however at least the conservatives are trying to lower taxes and some are even trying to shrink government.
 
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