Documentary "White People" being shown to my 8th Grader

[MTC]

So true. The higher income people can be just as rude. I think it depends on the persons heart. No racial bs. Are you good and eager to help others or are you angry and inclined to hurt others?

With higher income. Rude yes, snobby is the word. But they are more aware of social issues and such. I didn't grow up rich, but not crazy poor. But my K-12 education was in a lower income area of ABQ. I always noticed just how close minded cliques of people were. Gang bangers to even my cousins who don't know the world past the Rio Grande river. Luckily my dad kinda pushed me to try new things, broadened my horizons and got to go out of state for a bit as a result. All these liberal stories about white people being these racist jerks just baffles me. Snowflakes can't handle criticism. That's why I see the lash out

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Update: Teacher called me this morning. Couldn't answer. We are speaking live at 11:50AM. She simply said she'd be happy to speak during her free time today, and that if she didn't hear from me, she would be excusing SON to the media center as they were planning to watch another segment of the documentary today.

Great stand, but if the entire course is mandatory, you might as well have him experience the whole **** show. Pulling him out of one section won't help and may just stress him for your small victory.

 

[mightyguru]

White privilege....what a load of bullshit.

 

[deljzc]

Since when is MTV considered the standard to which we hold documentaries?

I agree with Lyn here....

Not sure I would like anything produced by MTV to be shown to my kids. What's next, those teenage mom shows in sex ed? MTV's agenda is pretty one-sided and it's a ratings based network. Not a news organization nor has a great track record of documentaries.

I might argue against it on those merits alone, not necessarily on the subject matter.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

The whole idea of white privilege is indoctrination. If they can catch a young white kids early enough they can use it as a control mechanism. They can get these kids to believe and go along with anything they say regarding race if they can guilt them into thinking that the only reason they have anything at all is because they're white. They literally want to instill the idea that these kids who have a clean safe homes, with clothes and food only have it because they're white and such things are handed out to white people. Not that their parents made the correct decisions and work hard to earn these things but they simply got them because they're white. If they can make these kids believe this they can guilt them into things like believing Racial set aside in affirmative-action are A-OK.

I ended the conversation almost as soon as it began. I asked her simply, "Can you tell me when in the course you'll be covering the topic of how all Muslims are potential terrorists?

Silence, for like 10 seconds.

She said "I see where you are going with this."

I said to here "You can't and won't nor should you be having that conversation. It's a blatant stereotype, and it would cost you your job. But it is ok to apply a stereotype to all white people - to in fact teach it. Is there going be a discussion about Asian privilege?"

She kept pointing to having "discussions" after the topics are covered. I said I have no problem with that, in fact encourage that. That my problem is that the mere mention of the phrase validates it. If you talk about "white privilege" in the classroom, you acknowledge it as a condition that exists, is real. Let's have the discussion without being blatantly racist in order to do so, without stereotyping in order to do so. We can't wildly generalize all Muslims, blacks, hispanics or Asians, but we can whites?

The result is my son won't be watching the rest of the documentary but will sit in on the community discussions after.

The call btw was super professional. I really like this woman, she has a lot of courage. She said I'd opened her eyes and given her quite a bit to think about.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Great stand, but if the entire course is mandatory, you might as well have him experience the whole **** show. Pulling him out of one section won't help and may just stress him for your small victory.

Update: My post before this one was supposed to have posted at 1PMish today. OH well. My son and I talked. He said he wants to watch the rest of it. He knows the right answers. I said it's your choice. We've aired our concerns. I trust him to handle it appropriately.

 

[oneforthebus]

As I said on facebook I think it can't be denied that discrimination both subtle and overt still exists. I think it's something kids need to be made aware of and taught to combat (as you do in your real life Tim). I also don't believe in shielding my kids from things that are biased, I like them to see obvious bias in action so we can discuss how bias works and they can recognize it in their own lives.

That said I watched about 5 minutes of this "documentary" and it's laughable. The stereotyping of how young white people think is ludicrous. I have 20+ nieces and nephews between the ages of 10 and 30 and I have never heard any of them say anything like the white kids in this documentary do.

Whoever approved this as educational programming needs to have some letters and emails directed at them.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

As I said on facebook I think it can't be denied that discrimination both subtle and overt still exists. I think it's something kids need to be made aware of and taught to combat (as you do in your real life Tim). I also don't believe in shielding my kids from things that are biased, I like them to see obvious bias in action so we can discuss how bias works and they can recognize it in their own lives.

That said I watched about 5 minutes of this "documentary" and it's laughable. The stereotyping of how young white people think is ludicrous. I have 20+ nieces and nephews between the ages of 10 and 30 and I have never heard any of them say anything like the white kids in this documentary do.

Whoever approved this as educational programming needs to have some letters and emails directed at them.

Agreed. It was comical to me to watch, especially the parts in the auditorium with the clearly hand-picked audience. The answers to the questions were clearly hand picked and chosen to highlight stupidity, or racism. You know that each question asked got probably 10 replies. But they'd take the one that clearly showed a "baffled' student, or an uneducated student, or one that was racist and not understanding, because hey, the world has got to see that whitey's bad.

The scripting was unusual. Why run a segment with an udocumented illegal alien, meeting with a southern gay white male who goes to all black Winston-Salem College? Talk about an extreme outlier situation. MTV wants you to believe that this is the face of America. It wouldn't be bad in the least if it was, but it's not.

The whole thing was cobbled together in such as way as to purport what they wanted it to say. Send me all of the unedited footage and let me watch that.

 

[oneforthebus]

They leave out big swaths of data when they are shaming the girl about her scholarship feelings. The reality is less qualified minority students get scholarships over more qualified white students. Colleges actively seek to create diverse student populations, and they don't try to hide this fact. You cannot do this without discriminating against white and Asian students because there are just a much larger percentage of white and Asian students with stellar academic performance than there are black and Hispanic ones. People will scream and holler racism if you tell this truth but it is the truth, albeit a sad truth.

Now, the high school achievement gap is partially due to systemic discrimination and is something that needs to be addressed, but to pretend that black and Hispanic students don't get preferential treatment over similarly qualified white and Asian students is disingenuous.

 

[Steelin]

It is true. I see it all too often in our area. My daughters who have been raised in a very diverse community see it and have been effected by merit based educational benefits downgraded status. They have had their opinions shift from minorities need what we provide to them and more to why is this fair. My eldest is sacrificing, scraping and working her as off despite her academic achievements with very little assistance. I sometimes feel guilty that our success is held against her so very often and in so many ways. It didn't used to be that way.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

They leave out big swaths of data when they are shaming the girl about her scholarship feelings. The reality is less qualified minority students get scholarships over more qualified white students. Colleges actively seek to create diverse student populations, and they don't try to hide this fact. You cannot do this without discriminating against white and Asian students because there are just a much larger percentage of white and Asian students with stellar academic performance than there are black and Hispanic ones. People will scream and holler racism if you tell this truth but it is the truth, albeit a sad truth.

Yes, I cried bullshit at those "numbers" Senor Vargas was spouting. Perfect example of stats being able to be manipulated to fit your argument. Even IF more whites get scholarships than minorities, any and every instance of a minority getting a scholarship over a more qualified white candidate is discrimination, no matter how you slice it. No different than a white person getting a job because of his skin color over a more qualified Hispanic.

The "data" they presented was a subset.

I thought these points were valid, read elsewhere:

-- Some states, including California, have passed laws that prohibit the consideration of race, gender, or ethnicity when considering public education or public employment.
-- At the University of Wisconsin, the median composite SAT score for blacks who were admitted was 150 points lower than for whites and Asians and the Latino median SAT score was 100 points lower.
---In law school admissions, white students who at a median LSAT score and grades had a 10% chance of being admitted. This is comparable to a 70% admission rate for black students and a 33% admission rate for Hispanic students.
--- Even with reverse discrimination components in place, whites generally have more job opportunities than minorities when it comes to job opportunities.
-- Some studies even show that white women have been able to benefit from Affirmative Action more than minorities, even with the inherent scholarship disadvantages.
-- The state of Texas replaced its affirmative action plan with a percentage plan that guarantees the top 10% of high-school graduates a spot in any state university in Texas. California and Florida have similar programs.
-- Only 7% of black students in the US are college ready in mathematics. This figure is even lower when it comes to biology at just 4%.
-- When Affirmative Action was abolished in certain states, many schools saw double digit decreases in the amount of accepted minorities.
-- 3 out of 4 people support the reverse discrimination that may or may not occur as it makes up for social needs, moral injustices, and historical inequalities.

Reverse discrimination might seem like a justifiable thing in some aspects, but the real problem is the lower level education systems. How is it that only 4% of black students are prepared for college level biology? ...Throwing kids into college just to make ourselves feel better isn’t the answer. That’s like taking a Vitamin C when you’ve got a cold! The real problems need to be fixed so a cure can be found.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Now, the high school achievement gap is partially due to systemic discrimination and is something that needs to be addressed but to pretend that black and Hispanic students don't get preferential treatment over similarly qualified white and Asian students is disingenuous.

Explain and propose how to address please.

 

[slashsteel]

Every group has its share of racists. Thing is when those racists start killing people based on their hate, becomes the bigger problem.

I am all for a firing squad for anyone,

any color killing another because of color.

And if it is just getting assaulted. I am for their punishment being 20 people assaulting them of the same color for their hate crime.


I have a lot of ideas how to fix ignorance. It just doesn't benefit the media or people who hate based on color............

 

[MTC]

It is true. I see it all too often in our area. My daughters who have been raised in a very diverse community see it and have been effected by merit based educational benefits downgraded status. They have had their opinions shift from minorities need what we provide to them and more to why is this fair. My eldest is sacrificing, scraping and working her as off despite her academic achievements with very little assistance. I sometimes feel guilty that our success is held against her so very often and in so many ways. It didn't used to be that way.

I know that feeling

 

[oneforthebus]

Explain and propose how to address please.

Don't forget I say partially. There are certainly a lot of other factors. But discrimination helps cause lack of economic opportunity which causes a whole cascade of problems that affect academic performance. I don't deny that it is harder for a black or Hispanic person to be successful in this country, to varying degrees depending on where they live.

How do we fix it? We will never completely fix it. It starts with education but there's always going to be some subset of people (of all races) who just don't give a **** about their children and when you have that situation there is nothing the government can do to fix it.

But the best thing we can do for kids who have the ability and desire to achieve is get them out of schools filled with those who don't. School choice would go a long way towards solving some of these issues, but it will take generations, not months or years to rebuild an educational system around the principle that no one should be locked into a failing public school by virtue of their zip code.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Don't forget I say partially. There are certainly a lot of other factors. But discrimination helps cause lack of economic opportunity

You keep stating as fact that discrimination is causing all kinds of things, while you admit that less qualified minority applicants get scholarships over more qualified white applicants. Similar affirmative action situation in the workplace. Where is all this discrimination?

 

[oneforthebus]

You keep stating as fact that discrimination is causing all kinds of things, while you admit that less qualified minority applicants get scholarships over more qualified white applicants. Similar affirmative action situation in the workplace. Where is all this discrimination?

Are you trying to argue that discrimination doesn't exist? Or that it has no effect on people?

Decades of legal, overt discrimination had their effects on minority communities, the fact that things are better now doesn't negate that. Government and big corporations may adhere to affirmative action standards now but I can guarantee you many smaller employers don't. Subtle discrimination is harder to quantify but I think you'd have to be blind to say it's not there. The median wage for blacks and Hispanics is about 65% of whites and their unemployment rates are nearly double that of whites. I think we can chalk some...not all...of that up to discrimination.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Are you trying to argue that discrimination doesn't exist? Or that it has no effect on people?

Decades of legal, overt discrimination had their effects on minority communities, the fact that things are better now doesn't negate that. Government and big corporations may adhere to affirmative action standards now but I can guarantee you many smaller employers don't. Subtle discrimination is harder to quantify but I think you'd have to be blind to say it's not there. The median wage for blacks and Hispanics is about 65% of whites and their unemployment rates are nearly double that of whites. I think we can chalk some...not all...of that up to discrimination.

I'm saying that stating that discrimination is a primary or even significant cause of economic and education problems in minority communities has no basis in fact, and when you say it needs to be "addressed", that is a vague remedy for a spurious premise. I'm not sure why you feel like you need to insert that into your responses unless it makes you feel more compassionate or something. It's like writing "let's talk about race" on a coffee cup.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Are you trying to argue that discrimination doesn't exist? Or that it has no effect on people?

Decades of legal, overt discrimination had their effects on minority communities, the fact that things are better now doesn't negate that. Government and big corporations may adhere to affirmative action standards now but I can guarantee you many smaller employers don't. Subtle discrimination is harder to quantify but I think you'd have to be blind to say it's not there. The median wage for blacks and Hispanics is about 65% of whites and their unemployment rates are nearly double that of whites. I think we can chalk some...not all...of that up to discrimination.

It would be greatly helpful if their cultures valued education and success instead of deriding them. Black immigrants from Africa are more highly educated and achieve more success and higher incomes than blacks born here because they rightly see America as a land of opportunity instead of looking for discrimination around every corner and taught that the man is against them and holding them down.

 

[oneforthebus]

I'm saying that stating that discrimination is a primary or even significant cause of economic and education problems in minority communities has no basis in fact, and when you say it needs to be "addressed", that is a vague remedy for a spurious premise. I'm not sure why you feel like you need to insert that into your responses unless it makes you feel more compassionate or something. It's like writing "let's talk about race" on a coffee cup.

I insert it into my responses because it's reality. If it's something you've never experienced or witnessed I don't know what to tell you. It's impossible to quantify how much of a factor it is but to say it's not a factor at all is very naive IMO. Maybe it makes you feel better to think that everyone truly does have an equal and fair shot, talk to some black and Hispanic people and see if they all feel the same. Solutions aren't simple and pat, it's not a simple and pat problem.

If you don't think that the economic disparities created by discriminatory practices during the 50s, 60s and 70s have an impact on communities today I would also say that's ill-informed. Of course we can't go back in time and change that but it's also not really fair to pretend it didn't happen and have an effect.

 

[oneforthebus]

It would be greatly helpful if their cultures valued education and success instead of deriding them. Black immigrants from Africa are more highly educated and achieve more success and higher incomes than blacks born here because they rightly see America as a land of opportunity instead of looking for discrimination around every corner and taught that the man is against them and holding them down.

Yes, but what creates that type of culture? You don't think discrimination over decades contributed to it? Of course it's largely due to the culture of dependency created by welfare policies but I think we also can't deny blacks and Hispanics have historically been passed over in favor of white people, hired for lesser jobs and paid less. Believe me, I'm not trying to push the minorities as total victims narrative, they need to lift themselves up, but it's only fair that we acknowledge the role discrimination has played.

Should bright young black students be penalized because their schools suck and they don't have the same educational opportunities as rich white kids? Therefore they score lower on tests and have no opportunity to take higher level courses for example. I think there does need to be some allowances for that type of situation. We shouldn't have a culture where only the rich and white have a chance to get into college, I understand that. But my sense as we navigate the college admissions process with our own children is they're taking that idea way too far. It seems to be diversity over all else now.

 

[hamster]

I insert it into my responses because it's reality. If it's something you've never experienced or witnessed I don't know what to tell you. It's impossible to quantify how much of a factor it is but to say it's not a factor at all is very naive IMO. Maybe it makes you feel better to think that everyone truly does have an equal and fair shot, talk to some black and Hispanic people and see if they all feel the same. Solutions aren't simple and pat, it's not a simple and pat problem.
.

Solutions are simple. From the Brookings Institute, a liberal think tank.

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/...teens-should-follow-to-join-the-middle-class/

 

[oneforthebus]

Solutions are simple.

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/...teens-should-follow-to-join-the-middle-class/

Yes, the solutions are simple if you haven't been raised in a community and educated in a school where most of your peers do not follow any of those rules. So let the kids who want to follow these rules get away from the kids who don't so they can have a chance.

 

[hamster]

Yes, the solutions are simple if you haven't been raised in a community and educated in a school where most of your peers do not follow any of those rules. So let the kids who want to follow these rules get away from the kids who don't so they can have a chance.

So what you are suggesting is that the problems are created within the community? That being the case, we should all be more critical of the behavior of those ,in said communities. But we can't, because that would be racist. And the beat goes on.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Should bright young black students be penalized because their schools suck and they don't have the same educational opportunities as rich white kids? Therefore they score lower on tests and have no opportunity to take higher level courses for example. I think there does need to be some allowances for that type of situation. We shouldn't have a culture where only the rich and white have a chance to get into college, I understand that. But my sense as we navigate the college admissions process with our own children is they're taking that idea way too far. It seems to be diversity over all else now.

I hear you. Minority communities need to demand more of both their schools and their children though instead of putting down those who aspire to success as "acting white" or being a "sellout". When your culture demeans education and success then most of its members will remain stupid and poor. Oddly, if the Racist President Trump manages to get school choice through the Dept. of Education that will be the best thing that ever happened to these folks.