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FordFairLane draft grades

I don't know what to think about Dionte Johnson. When you label him they next AB, and tell everyone that the Bucs were going to pick him a few picks later, it kind of taints the jury pool so to speak. He struggles with drops and that concerns me.

Was he so great a prospect that they needed him there instead of Winovich? I'm not sure Winovich will be a great player, but I'm pretty sure he'll be good and they steelers could use that at OLB.

WR was so deep in this draft.


Justin Layne - I love this pick and at the same time I think he could be a bust. How? Because this draft was not great at CB. Just look at how long it took for the first CB off the board, pick 30. There were no stud CBs in this draft, just a bunch of guys who could be solid.

The steelers already have some solid DBs. What they need is a dam playmaker. Layne is one of the few prospects that could develop into a real playmaker so I like that they are rolling the dice on him.
 
The steelers had such a hole at ILB that any competent player will look like Jack Lambert for a time. Bush will be a good player. He's smart and athletic and a tackling machine, but his size does limit his game.

The reason he was so highly valued is because of the lack of depth at ILB in this draft. Bush would not have been a 1st rounder in last year's draft.

That's the main problem i have with this pick. The Steelers keep telling us that Shazier was the key to the defense. Well they certainly took their time to fix that position didn't they? They didn't even have a real backup for Shazier. They signed Sean Spence off the street to start a playoff game. That's a pretty big red flag that you ****** up in building the roster.

Last year they chose to put some duct tape on it with Bostic and they sat back in a draft that had some really great ILB prospects and did notihing.

They should have traded up for an ILB, but it should have been LAST year.

Terrell Edmunds brother Tremaine is a crazy athlete with a ceiling twice as high as Bush's. They could have traded up for him. They could have traded up for Vander Esch too.

So they backed themselves into a corner at ILB in draft where it was weak.

None of them could be the QB on defense, Bush brings that and it the most impressive trait he has, in time with game study and his dedication to film he will be calling it like Troy pre snap jumping over the line!
 
I’m looking at it objectively. I like Devin Bush as a player but is he worth three picks is yet to be seen. Also, I feel we should have put ourselves in better positions in previous drafts so we wouldn’t HAVE to draft a ILB.


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Devin Bush LB Michigan

Now I am going to take into consideration Bush cost us a our first, second and a 2020 third. This is my concern we gave up a lot (correct value though) for a linebacker under 6’ tall. I cannot think of a hall of fame or even pro bowl MLB that is under 6’ besides Zach Thomas and maybe London Fletcher. That said I like Bush and I like him better than White whom is roughly the same size and went ahead of Bush. The Steeler identified a need and the best player in the draft to fill it and to get that player they figured they’d have to get ahead of the Bengals. Well, they did and this draft and next draft will largely be defined by the player Bush becomes. I for one will be cheering and rooting for him as loud as any.

Pros- Quick twitch athlete who is a natural leader and very cerebral when running the defense. He has the ability to blitz, shoot gaps, tackle, and even the ability to flip his hips and run with a back.

Cons- Size is the biggest concern (no pun intended) and with that concern comes covering larger TE’s up the seam and his ability stack and shed larger offensive linemen.

C+ (again I like the player but if what we gave up was worth it is yet to be seen)

Diontae Johnson WR Toledo

I know this is the least favorite of our picks but looking at some of the bigger draft boards like CBS #37, Draft Countdown #27, and NFL Draft Scout #45. And the fact Bruce Arians was going to take him after if the Steelers didn’t makes me ok with where we go him.

Pros- Elite when getting off the line which is usually a huge learning curve in the NFL. Awesome change of direction skills, and one of if not the best at tracking the ball in the air. The two things the great ones do is get off the line and track the ball in the air. He can do both.

Cons- Average athlete, below average size, with very small hands which is the kicker for me.

B

Justin Layne CB Michigan State

This is the definition of a boom or bust pick. Layne tested off the charts but his lack of technique is going to get him beat like a redheaded stepchild.

Pros- Impressive size for a CB at nearly 6-2, with long arms, and wingspan. Fluid athlete with better long speed that quick twitch but very smooth in his transitions.

Cons- Former wide receiver who doesn’t understand basic concepts of the game being coached by a team notoriously bad at developing CB’s.

B-

Benny Snell RB Kentucky

This is a very high floor but low ceiling type player in my opinion. I think Snell would be a great backup and even a decent starter in a pinch but I don’t see him taking the starting job from Connor or even JaySam if Connor gets hurt.

Pros- Very nice lower center of gravity and with that balance bounces off some would be tacklers. Above average vision and allows blocks to develop. Good size and proven success as a three year starter. One cut and up which is a very successful style in the NFL. Very good in Pass Protection which is my favorite thing about him.

Cons- Below average athlete. Lots of miles on those legs. Not a pass catching threat.

C

Zach Gentry TE Michigan

Felt like the team had a huge hole missing with James gone and was damn sure they were going to fill it with this pick. Truth his Gentry reminds me a ton of Matt Spaeth as he was probably overly productive as a pass catcher in College and will likely be an extra offensive lineman in the pros.

Pros- Imposing size at 6-8 1/8. Had a huge year catching the football with 32 grabs at 514 yards. Seems to understand zone and soft spots and did a nice job on drag routes.

Cons- Two touchdowns when you are 6-8? Very slow and extremely tight hips. Not very good hands and had some very crucial drops. His blocking is average at best. For a guy of his size he doesn’t offer much else.

C

Sutton Smith Edge NIU

Dude might be the most productive player we have ever drafted. 56 TFL and 29 sacks the last two seasons. WOW. He is like mighty mouse out there but is a special teams stud and I feel that is where he makes his money.

Pros- Quick off the snap and gets low to turn the corner. Non stop motor and is always running hot. Very agile and has good feet movement. Outstanding special teamer and plays those snaps with same intensity.

Cons- Drastically undersized with short arms and small hands. Not sure he will even have a position.

C

Isaiah Buggs DL Alabama

I hate Alabama players as they have a HUGE bust rate but taking one this late isn’t so bad. Buggs has a shot at a rotational roll or backup roll with the Steelers and would be a good candidate for the practice squad.

Pros- Good motor and is always active during the play. Experienced in the 34 and our defensive line coach. Had a monster year with 9.5 sacks.

Cons- Not a great athlete and is just another guy. Looks like he is maxed out physically. Short arms, small hands, not explosive ect

C

Ulysees Grant III LB Akron

I was a little confused by this pick and then I started to think about our defense when Shaz went down and we had nothing behind him. I think Grant can backup Bush and be a special teamer and maybe some sub packages in a year or two. Good PS candidate.

Pros- Quick LB with plus coverage skills. Better than average coverage skills. Read and react linebacker.

Cons- Size and strength will be a battle in the NFL.

B

Derwin Gray OL Maryland

Powerful lineman with good length and athleticism. Probably kicks inside to help with his footwork but could be a nice replacement for Foster in two seasons. He again is a likely candidate for PS.

Pros- Long arms, powerful, nasty lineman who doesn’t try to win but destroy his matchup.

Cons- Slow to recognize at times and doesn’t have the footwork to stay at tackle. Project.

B

Just a question..I have heard a few people say we gave up a first, 2nd, and 3rd. How do you give up a first. It was a swap?
To me they gave up 2nd, and a 2020 3rd, which we should get from comp picks for next year, to move up to the top 10.
Seems like a good move to me.
And if history repeats itself, (Polamalu, Holmes), why would you not be excited!

my 2 cents.
 
You really can't compare a OLB to a ILBer.

Michigan played an attacking D one of the best in the country , who played a **** load of man coverage. They also had decent surrounding talent. So Bush didn't have to do it all himself. He is a natural leader and a film rat.

And **** so many young LBers struggle initially to get off blocks. I remember Shazier having issues and it didn't stop him from making plays.


Watching film I saw him analyze and then move react. He looks like an instinctual LBer.

I think his weaknesses can be coached up.

And his strengths can be heightened.

No reason to think he won't be a damn good ILber.

We compare different technical positions all the time. When listing short LBs OLB was ok to list but not when I use it? Seriously? Also I know that most on here are Big 10 guys but Georgia had a hell of a defense with Jones. I also saw how that powerful defense played again OSU.

Shazier did struggle to get off blocks.. he never got over it. It was part of the reason the Steelers had a better winning percentage when he was hurt.

Also him being a "Damn good LB" isn't good enough for the 10th overall pick. There are several reasons to think he will struggle. He gets blocked easily. He struggles against misdirection plays (just watch the OSU game). And again I thought the issues the Steelers were addressing were turnovers and pass defenses? But somehow he gets a pass on that because the Steelers drafted him. He doesn't address any of those needs.
 
The thing about Bush is that if he just plays the position above average he will lift the play of others around him. Our defense suffered when Shazier went out, because
others on D had to play in a way to overcome our weakness at that position. The combination of Barron, Williams and Bush is a major upgrade from Williams, Fort, Bostic.
I'm particularly interested to see the combination of Barron and Bush on the field together.
 
We compare different technical positions all the time. When listing short LBs OLB was ok to list but not when I use it? Seriously? Also I know that most on here are Big 10 guys but Georgia had a hell of a defense with Jones. I also saw how that powerful defense played again OSU.

Shazier did struggle to get off blocks.. he never got over it. It was part of the reason the Steelers had a better winning percentage when he was hurt.

Also him being a "Damn good LB" isn't good enough for the 10th overall pick. There are several reasons to think he will struggle. He gets blocked easily. He struggles against misdirection plays (just watch the OSU game). And again I thought the issues the Steelers were addressing were turnovers and pass defenses? But somehow he gets a pass on that because the Steelers drafted him. He doesn't address any of those needs.

Jarvis was slow as molasses, just a bad comparison. Bush will get off some blocks due to speed,anticipation, and athleticism. And a NFL weight room.... And sometimes he won't.


Being damn good isn't enough when there is players that bust out all the way from pick number 1?

Despite Shazier's issues he was a pro bowler, whose impact was felt when he went down. As well when he was on the field.

I am saying you will see Bush's impact when he is on the field.

His positives will help the D, more than any negatives hurts the D.... that he shows here and there.
 
Jarvis was slow as molasses, just a bad comparison. Bush will get off some blocks due to speed,anticipation, and athleticism. And a NFL weight room.... And sometimes he won't.


Being damn good isn't enough when there is players that bust out all the way from pick number 1?

Despite Shazier's issues he was a pro bowler, whose impact was felt when he went down. As well when he was on the field.

I am saying you will see Bush's impact when he is on the field.

His positives will help the D, more than any negatives hurts the D.... that he shows here and there.

Same thing is always said about every player. They will only get better, they'll hit the weight room, his coaches rave about him ETC.. just go back and look at what people were saying last year after the draft. All those players were great and they can only get better right?

Again, Shazier's impact was that they had a better record without him. You can spin it anyway you want. Terms like "impact" mean nothing without wins behind it.

So let me get this right. You just said a damn good player is enough because even #1 players bust. So what? So I guess an average player is ok too since even #1 players bust? How about below average? That is horrible reasoning.
 
The steelers had such a hole at ILB that any competent player will look like Jack Lambert for a time. Bush will be a good player. He's smart and athletic and a tackling machine, but his size does limit his game.

The reason he was so highly valued is because of the lack of depth at ILB in this draft. Bush would not have been a 1st rounder in last year's draft.

That's the main problem i have with this pick. The Steelers keep telling us that Shazier was the key to the defense. Well they certainly took their time to fix that position didn't they? They didn't even have a real backup for Shazier. They signed Sean Spence off the street to start a playoff game. That's a pretty big red flag that you ****** up in building the roster.

Last year they chose to put some duct tape on it with Bostic and they sat back in a draft that had some really great ILB prospects and did notihing.

They should have traded up for an ILB, but it should have been LAST year.

Terrell Edmunds brother Tremaine is a crazy athlete with a ceiling twice as high as Bush's. They could have traded up for him. They could have traded up for Vander Esch too.

So they backed themselves into a corner at ILB in draft where it was weak.

You can say they should have traded last year until you're out of breath, but they did not have the ammo to do so last year. Who are you saying they should have traded up to get? Vander Esch? He went at 19 with us at 28, we would have had to move up 10 spots to get him to 18, what would that have cost us? Rashaan Evans? Tennessee got him at 22, too bad the bungles picked at 21 and they wouldn't have traded with us, so that leaves 20, 8 spots for Evans who also was on the smaller side with far less athleticism and instincts yet had the same issues you're harping about Bush for. What would it have cost to move up 8 spots there? Terrible argument, and you would have been complaining last year about what they gave up to move up and get them, but this year you think it helps your argument look stronger
 
Same thing is always said about every player. They will only get better, they'll hit the weight room, his coaches rave about him ETC.. just go back and look at what people were saying last year after the draft. All those players were great and they can only get better right?

Again, Shazier's impact was that they had a better record without him. You can spin it anyway you want. Terms like "impact" mean nothing without wins behind it.

So let me get this right. You just said a damn good player is enough because even #1 players bust. So what? So I guess an average player is ok too since even #1 players bust? How about below average? That is horrible reasoning.

I am saying they don't know what they have until they see it. Neither do you. But I have given enough reasons why he could be successful.

And I disagree about Shazier's impact. And I am pretty sure the Steelers would too. Players included.
 
Nick Buoniconti played in a different era. Completely forgot about Sam Mills. Mentioned Zach Thomas. Elvis Dumervil plays a completely different position.


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Valid points Ford, but was just referring to the players height. All were considered short for their position...even Nick B. He got by on smarts and knowing where the ball was at all times, a’la Jack Ham.


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Bush is listed at 5-11, 233. Ryan Shazier played at 6-0 and around 230. Almost identical size, and almost identical skill set. What made Shazier great was his speed and his willingness to hit. Nobody had issues with his size. That sums up Bush as well. He is as close to Shazier as we have seen in the past 2-3 drafts. I love this pick for this team's current needs.

The rest of this draft concerns me a lot. I hope I am wrong. I hope they all pan out to make the team and contribute. But I see a lot of reaches in this draft, starting with Round 3. There were better, more polished WR still available. Undersized, lacking top speed and small hands seems to be a lot of negatives to take in the 3rd round. This one concerns me.

Justin Layne at CB? Again, there were guys a lot more ready to play that position who were still available. Seems to be a reach for a guy (with a lot of talent) with only 1-2 years of playing the position. If we wanted a project based on physical tools, I. Johnson from Houston was the same size with more speed and more experience at CB. He was still available. Again, I hope it works out but this one concerns me a lot.

RB Benny Snell. A lot of mocks had him coming to the Steelers. He's slow. He's a battering ram style runner, a throwback to years ago but not very useful in this modern style game. He's a slower and less shifty version of our current backup RB who is far more versatile. I didn't like the idea of this pick before it was made and we made it a round or two too early.

Everybody else on the list looks to be a project. Buggs was good in college on a defense loaded with NFL talent. He won't make much impact at the NFL level. Backup material if he makes the roster. Sutton Smith is interesting, a good athlete with skill but very small at OLB. Might he become a more athletic ILB at 6-0, 233 he is ideal size. Maybe replaces Matakevich on this roster.

Other than Bush, I don't see an impact player or potential starter in the next 2 years while the "Ben Window" is still open.

I really hope I am wrong.
 
I am saying they don't know what they have until they see it. Neither do you. But I have given enough reasons why he could be successful.

And I disagree about Shazier's impact. And I am pretty sure the Steelers would too. Players included.

You can disagree all you want. It doesn't change fact. The FACT is that they had a better winning percentage without him. What the Steelers believe or what anyone believes doesn't really matter. How many times on this board do we disparage "pro-bowlers" from other teams. All the time. How many times do we say it's a popularity contest? And it is. So you can't now use that to prove how great a player is when we all know what it really is. Wasn't Derrick Carr a pro-bowler?

I don't know what they have in Bush. Neither do you or them. I can only look at the film. Before the draft I said I didn't want to move up for him because of his issues. I still feel that way. We will see what he does.
 
Bush is listed at 5-11, 233. Ryan Shazier played at 6-0 and around 230. Almost identical size, and almost identical skill set. What made Shazier great was his speed and his willingness to hit. Nobody had issues with his size. That sums up Bush as well. He is as close to Shazier as we have seen in the past 2-3 drafts. I love this pick for this team's current needs.

Their skill set is different because Shazier could knock balls away, cause some fumbles and could intercept the ball. Nothing in Bush's career says he can do any of those. Which was suppose to be the point in replacing Shazier. But since Bush is fast that's all that matters.
 
You can say they should have traded last year until you're out of breath, but they did not have the ammo to do so last year. Who are you saying they should have traded up to get? Vander Esch? He went at 19 with us at 28, we would have had to move up 10 spots to get him to 18, what would that have cost us? Rashaan Evans? Tennessee got him at 22, too bad the bungles picked at 21 and they wouldn't have traded with us, so that leaves 20, 8 spots for Evans who also was on the smaller side with far less athleticism and instincts yet had the same issues you're harping about Bush for. What would it have cost to move up 8 spots there? Terrible argument, and you would have been complaining last year about what they gave up to move up and get them, but this year you think it helps your argument look stronger

And someone has to be willing to trade, maybe those other teams didn't want to trade out of their spot. It's easy to say they should've traded, well maybe those teams didn't want to trade down. You can just say we are trading up and that's that! They had this deal worked out with Denver before the draft, if Denver said no, we wouldn't have traded up.

I like the Bush pick, he's a leader, he can call the defensive signals, he loves football. Yeah he's under 6 ft, but he can run and is athletic, he can at least run with these TE's and RB's forcing QB's to have to make good throws into tight window. This isn't 2002, he's not going to have to shed a ton of blocks trying to keep teams from running 30+times a game, different era different game.
 
You can disagree all you want. It doesn't change fact. The FACT is that they had a better winning percentage without him.
Meaningless statistic. The Steelers lose to the Pats with Shazier but beat the Browns without him. Hey, it is a FACT that the Steelers are better without Shazier.
 
Last edited:
Devin Bush LB Michigan Cons- Size is the biggest concern (no pun intended) and with that concern comes covering larger TE’s up the seam and his ability stack and shed larger offensive linemen. C+

Diontae Johnson WR Toledo-Cons- Average athlete, below average size, with very small hands which is the kicker for me. B

Justin Layne CB Michigan Stats-Cons- Former wide receiver who doesn’t understand basic concepts of the game being coached by a team notoriously bad at developing CB’s. B-

Benny Snell RB Kentucky-Cons- Below average athlete. Lots of miles on those legs. Not a pass catching threat. C

Zach Gentry TE Michigan-Cons- Two touchdowns when you are 6-8? Very slow and extremely tight hips. Not very good hands and had some very crucial drops. His blocking is average at best. For a guy of his size he doesn’t offer much else.-C

Sutton Smith Edge NIU-Cons- Drastically undersized with short arms and small hands. Not sure he will even have a position. C

Isaiah Buggs DL Alabama Cons- Not a great athlete and is just another guy. Looks like he is maxed out physically. Short arms, small hands, not explosive ect C

Ulysees Grant III LB Akron Cons- Size and strength will be a battle in the NFL. B

Derwin Gray OL Maryland Cons- Slow to recognize at times and doesn’t have the footwork to stay at tackle. Project.

I appreciate the effort, but first we need to grade your grades....I am having a hard time grading your grades as I do not know how you were able to arrive at your grades....

The grade I am going give you is an Incomplete....So for now will get an "I" for Incomplete....Before I can give you a grade I would like to know the amount of games you have watched on TV or in person of these players...You just gave grades on 9 people so I want to know how you were able to arrive at your grades?

Were you at the combine? Were you in the stands at any of these players games? Did you watch intensive film? Just how much film did you watch of each player? How about just basic college football on Saturday? Were you tracking these guys? How many former coaches of these players have you called to find out more about em?

Your qualifications are in serious question here...Enlighten us please
 
I appreciate the effort, but first we need to grade your grades....I am having a hard time grading your grades as I do not know how you were able to arrive at your grades....

The grade I am going give you is an Incomplete....So for now will get an "I" for Incomplete....Before I can give you a grade I would like to know the amount of games you have watched on TV or in person of these players...You just gave grades on 9 people so I want to know how you were able to arrive at your grades?

Were you at the combine? Were you in the stands at any of these players games? Did you watch intensive film? Just how much film did you watch of each player? How about just basic college football on Saturday? Were you tracking these guys? How many former coaches of these players have you called to find out more about em?

Your qualifications are in serious question here...Enlighten us please

Are you ******* serious?

Why even read this board because obviously every post is below your standard? We’re just fans and not former NFL players, coaches and GMs so nothing we write will meet your standard apparently.

Do we have your permission to speculate on how many games the steelers may win this year?

Ford took time to do a detailed breakdown of each pick. He explained his reasoning for all grades. Instead of you giving your own reason for why you think he’s wrong, you basically just tell him he should shut up because he’s unqualified to even have an opinion.

This board used to have so many posts from people who would put in tons of work on posts that broke down players, drafts, opponents, pretty much everything. There were so many great discussions. There’s not many these days and it’s because of replies like this.

You try to start a discussion and instead of a discussion, you get tomatoes and cabbages thrown at you. That’s why TMC left. That’s why i don’t write many detailed posts like i used to.
 
Valid points Ford, but was just referring to the players height. All were considered short for their position...even Nick B. He got by on smarts and knowing where the ball was at all times, a’la Jack Ham.


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I said he’s a leader and a very cerebral player who will help the players around him. If he’s London Fletcher I’ll eat my grading of him. But there are concerns and he did cost a lot of draft picks. Those are the facts I based my draft grade on him.


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Are you ******* serious?

Why even read this board because obviously every post is below your standard? We’re just fans and not former NFL players, coaches and GMs so nothing we write will meet your standard apparently.

Do we have your permission to speculate on how many games the steelers may win this year?

Ford took time to do a detailed breakdown of each pick. He explained his reasoning for all grades. Instead of you giving your own reason for why you think he’s wrong, you basically just tell him he should shut up because he’s unqualified to even have an opinion.

This board used to have so many posts from people who would put in tons of work on posts that broke down players, drafts, opponents, pretty much everything. There were so many great discussions. There’s not many these days and it’s because of replies like this.

You try to start a discussion and instead of a discussion, you get tomatoes and cabbages thrown at you. That’s why TMC left. That’s why i don’t write many detailed posts like i used to.

I am serious, and ******* so....I took the time to respond too. Sorry, if you are going to grade someone I want to know why and how the conclusion was brought about. Is that too much to ask?
 
Meaningless statistic. The Steelers lose to the Pats with Shazier but beat the Browns without him. Hey, it is a FACT that the Steelers are better without Shazier.

They beat the pats*** last year without him too. FACT. They lost to ******* Jax 30-9 with him. They were 3-3 in the playoffs with him. Losing to New England, Denver and Baltimore while beating dynasties like the bungles (with a backup QB), Miami (with a backup QB), and KC with Alex Smith. FACTS.

I know this is hard to believe but Shazier wasn't some great mythical ILB. He was a good one but not great and he sure as hell didn't do anything great in the playoffs.
 
When I do my write up I take off the rose colored glasses and think what would I say if this was the Packers or Jaguars and I really didn't care. When I do that I see the Steelers gave up a 2nd and 3rd for an ILB under 6' tall.

I think it is generally agreed that future picks are valued at one round lower for each year the selection is delayed. A 2020 3rd round pick is equal to a 4th rounder. A 2021 3rd round pick is equal to a 5th round pick.

So the pick cost a 2nd round and 4th round "value."
 
I am serious, and ******* so....I took the time to respond too. Sorry, if you are going to grade someone I want to know why and how the conclusion was brought about. Is that too much to ask?

I thought I listed my reasoning but here I go again.

Zach Thomas, London Fletcher and as Ike pointed out Sam Mills are the only pro bowl level ILB at under 6’ that I can come up with. Maybe I missed someone but considering how many pro bowl MLB’s there been since the super bowl era that cards are stacked a little against him.

If you are asking why being short and smaller is a concern then I’ll list those out.

Coverage- just like a 5-8 CB they are few and far between that pan out. Athleticism can only overcome so much when you are matched up on someone physically larger than you.

Run defense- again, when you are asked to stack and shed a 320 guard size matters.

Are those things we can assist him on? Yes, by not putting him in those positions. Lets not match him up on a 6-6 Travis Kelce by design. Lets have him shoot gaps and run side to side not blitz the LG to try to stuff the run. But the thing is the offense is going to try to force him to cover that tight end or run at him with a pulling guard.

Time will tell what Bush becomes but I’m not bashing him. He’s an above average athlete and a very smart player. He checks a lot of boxes. My problem is he’s not light years better of a prospect that Jerome Baker who went in the third round last year. So why is Bush worth a first, second and third round pick?


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