FordFairLane draft grades

[ianv2012]

That would be good too. Santonio was so special in that SB, he had that will to be great. to be special. I wouldn't mind a Santonio Holmes clone at all.

Minus the Mary Jane

 

[FordFairLane]

I don't want to take over Fairlane's thread but this is the only spot to talk about all the picks in one place so I'll respond to this a bit.
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No worries it’s an open forum and all are welcome to post their opinion.


I’ve been watching more and more tape on Bush and I have been trying to place who his game post resembles. First off you have to completely take Ryan Shazier off the table as a comparison. Shazier was just coming into his prime and he was a splash play kind of guy. Much like Troy was. It was feast or famine but the ability for a game changing play was always there i.e. the Bengals playoff game where he played like a man possessed.

My best comparisons are a faster Sean Spence or a better Jerome Baker. I have made the London Fletcher comparison but right now the only thing they have in common is size. Now before people get butt hurt about Spence you have to watch him in college and then speak. Before that horrific leg injury he was a good sideline to sideline linebacker.

Now Bush does have all the speed and athleticism to be London Fletcher but right now he’s not him. Maybe in a couple of years but his game isn’t there yet.


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[slashsteel]

No worries it’s an open forum and all are welcome to post their opinion.


I’ve been watching more and more tape on Bush and I have been trying to place who his game post resembles. First off you have to completely take Ryan Shazier off the table as a comparison. Shazier was just coming into his prime and he was a splash play kind of guy. Much like Troy was. It was feast or famine but the ability for a game changing play was always there i.e. the Bengals playoff game where he played like a man possessed.

My best comparisons are a faster Sean Spence or a better Jerome Baker. I have made the London Fletcher comparison but right now the only thing they have in common is size. Now before people get butt hurt about Spence you have to watch him in college and then speak. Before that horrific leg injury he was a good sideline to sideline linebacker.

Now Bush does have all the speed and athleticism to be London Fletcher but right now he’s not him. Maybe in a couple of years but his game isn’t there yet.


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Spence is an interesting comparison, who knows what he would have been if not for that horrific injury.

An interesting comparison but Bush is faster, more athletic, more explosive, and stronger. And a leader and a film room junkie... ( Before the SS injury comparison)

Which is why Spence was chose where he was chosen, and Bush is a worthy top 15 pick.

 

[deljzc]

Spence is an interesting comparison, who knows what he would have been if not for that horrific injury.

An interesting comparison but Bush is faster, more athletic, more explosive, and stronger. And a leader and a film room junkie... ( Before the SS injury comparison)

Which is why Spence was chose where he was chosen, and Bush is a worthy top 15 pick.

The game has changed a bit since Spence was taken. I would venture Spence today would be a more highly graded prospect because of the way defenses are played now. The smaller linebackers and converted strong safeties are all over the league now (although not as many as you might think).

Bush is a lot lke Spence. I can see the resemblence in college tape. Spence might have been a little quicker downhill, but that could be scheme now too. So much of today's linebacker play in college is acting the spy on the dual-threat quarterback and reading/filling the gap behind the DE (whom is being read by the QB). There is a tentativeness in linebacker play today that old school guys like myself still have to get used to. Granted not all are like that. Still some big thumpers out there (Myles Jack, Raekwon McMillan, etc.) that like to come downhill and just blow things up.

Bush definitely is not that type of guy.

 

[slashsteel]

The game has changed a bit since Spence was taken. I would venture Spence today would be a more highly graded prospect because of the way defenses are played now. The smaller linebackers and converted strong safeties are all over the league now (although not as many as you might think).

Bush is a lot lke Spence. I can see the resemblence in college tape. Spence might have been a little quicker downhill, but that could be scheme now too. So much of today's linebacker play in college is acting the spy on the dual-threat quarterback and reading/filling the gap behind the DE (whom is being read by the QB). There is a tentativeness in linebacker play today that old school guys like myself still have to get used to. Granted not all are like that. Still some big thumpers out there (Myles Jack, Raekwon McMillan, etc.) that like to come downhill and just blow things up.

Bush definitely is not that type of guy.

I am a big Myles Jack fan. Really surprised J-ville slumped to the level they did last year....

 

[Punxsutawney]

As far as DJ goes he could be somewhere in between Sanders and Ted Ginn. Or better or worse.. I could also see where fans wonder if they just tried to clone AB, over BPA. I will glue to Butler VS DJ on a comparison as their careers move forward.

It's almost like Tombert went out of their way to make a statement with that pick.

I mean, what were the odds of the Steelers using the highest pick they received for Brown not only on a WR, but one from the same conference with identical physical traits to Brown?

It's hard to dismiss is to coincidence, and it probably isn't the most prudent way to approach a team's second draft pick.

 

[Litos]

It's almost like Tombert went out of their way to make a statement with that pick.

I mean, what were the odds of the Steelers using the highest pick they received for Brown not only on a WR, but one from the same conference with identical physical traits to Brown?

It's hard to dismiss is to coincidence, and it probably isn't the most prudent way to approach a team's second draft pick.

yeap I agree, feels like they are looking three years in to the future to say to AB "look, we used the ****** deal you forced on us to get another just like you, you are nothing but expendable", the ultimate revenge. But it feels forced and they might have gotten value in other spots where there wasn't so much depth as WR in this draft

 

[Fiji Mariner]

I keep seeing the "undersized" comments about Bush, but if the man drafted to be the successor to Shazier weighs in at 234 and Shazier weighed in at 237 that seems to be a bit of a reach in attempting to be critical of the kid. Hopefully his head is too large as well...


At any rate these guys are all Steelers now so hopefully this draft can rival our best ever and produce the 2nd most HOF players we've acquired in a single draft (wishful thinking but what the hell, all sunshine and lollipops in the offseason).

 

[Vader]

I keep seeing the "undersized" comments about Bush, but if the man drafted to be the successor to Shazier weighs in at 234 and Shazier weighed in at 237 that seems to be a bit of a reach in attempting to be critical of the kid. Hopefully his head is too large as well...


At any rate these guys are all Steelers now so hopefully this draft can rival our best ever and produce the 2nd most HOF players we've acquired in a single draft (wishful thinking but what the hell, all sunshine and lollipops in the offseason).

"undersized" is because he's shorter not because he weighs less.

 

[FordFairLane]

https://Invalid Link - Check SN Hom...ss-ranked-26th-in-league-by-nfl-com-analysts/

Just saying


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[SteelerSask2]

I just cannot factor in the cost to the grade on Devin Bush. It costed what it costed. All you have to do is look at what was there when they would have picked at 20. Pretty thin. I would have paid up again and got someone in the bottom of 2. I would much rather have my pick than a bunch of guys I kinda like.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

I just cannot factor in the cost to the grade on Devin Bush. It costed what it costed. All you have to do is look at what was there when they would have picked at 20. Pretty thin. I would have paid up again and got someone in the bottom of 2. I would much rather have my pick than a bunch of guys I kinda like.

So then why not trade up into the top 10 every single year?

 

[slashsteel]

So then why not trade up into the top 10 every single year?

Colbert made it clear that without the extra picks they wouldn't have been in a position to trade up in the manner which they did. The team desires to restock in the draft, with a minimal amount of picks that makes it mission difficult Ethan.

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[FordFairLane]

My overall concern with Colbert drafts are when he goes into them saying I need to fill this position. This year he went in and filled positions of need with 3 of the first four picks. Bush, Johnson and Gentry were all positions of need. The way Artie Burns and Jarvis Jones were drafted.


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[21STEELERS21]

I believe the Steelers view Bush as a more athletic Kendrell Bell. Bell in his rookie year had offenses worrying about him coming straight up the gut.
I think Bush will do the same. Also Ravens might have helped determine the need to move up. Their 2018 offense, with run first, fast QB, heavy TE play
needs a fast linebacker to disrupt.

And if you look ahead, next years ILB crop is rather weak as well, so might as well get your solution now.

Johnson might not have as high a ceiling as some of the WR's the Steelers passed on, but I believe he has a higher floor and his quicks and route running ability will allow
him to contribute sooner, while the guys passed on will need to develop.

 

[Vader]

I believe the Steelers view Bush as a more athletic Kendrell Bell. Bell in his rookie year had offenses worrying about him coming straight up the gut.
I think Bush will do the same. Also Ravens might have helped determine the need to move up. Their 2018 offense, with run first, fast QB, heavy TE play
needs a fast linebacker to disrupt.

And if you look ahead, next years ILB crop is rather weak as well, so might as well get your solution now.

Johnson might not have as high a ceiling as some of the WR's the Steelers passed on, but I believe he has a higher floor and his quicks and route running ability will allow
him to contribute sooner, while the guys passed on will need to develop.

Bell was nothing like Bush. Bell outweighs Bush by 25 pounds and is 2" taller. Bell was a thumper on the inside. He couldn't be blocked and was hard to move. If he had stayed health he would have been a great ILB. Bush is not a thumper. He is like Shazier. He is fast and they want to use him in the passing game not to stop up the middle on run plays. Bush will get steamrolled if he takes on OL up the middle. He struggled with college OL let alone pro ones.

 

[CorpusDsteelers]

Lmao he’s more like a skinny faster Kirkland

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Colbert made it clear that without the extra picks they wouldn't have been in a position to trade up in the manner which they did. The team desires to restock in the draft, with a minimal amount of picks that makes it mission difficult Ethan.

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How can i forget the enormous haul of draft picks the steelers got for trading away AB?

Colbert is full of ****. He's still in CYA mode after what he knows was a horrible trade. He takes every opportunity to try to make it seem like the steelers got some great value for AB.

I would find it even more disturbing if the only reason they traded up for Bush was because they had an extra 3rd rounder. They obviously saw ILB as a huge need and they evaluated Bush as a top 10 talent worthy of such trade. It would be nonsense then to NOT do the trade over a 3rd rounder.

 

[21STEELERS21]

Bell's combine weight was 234, Bush's 234. He did have 2 inches on Bush, but Bush has a 2" higher vertical.
Bell put on 10 lbs in the NFL. Many describe Bush as a Thumper and he might add some NFL weight himself.

 

[deljzc]

My overall concern with Colbert drafts are when he goes into them saying I need to fill this position. This year he went in and filled positions of need with 3 of the first four picks. Bush, Johnson and Gentry were all positions of need. The way Artie Burns and Jarvis Jones were drafted.


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There is NO DOUBT we draft for need under the Tombert era. No doubt. The concept of best player available is just foreign to them. Their entire board is stacked based on need. You'd be hard pressed to find a round 1 or round 2 pick at any position that wasn't a pretty glaring hole except MAYBE way back in 2008 when they picked Mendenhall, which failed big and they haven't done it since.

If I was only given one gripe about our drafting its that they do not project out need 2-3 years in advance. They don't read the tea leaves with contract talks, projected salary cap issues, etc. and it constantly puts us in position year-in, year-out where we have some pretty glaring gaps trying to build the roster.

For example (and this is minor, but typical), if the GM/coach knew a year ago that Jesse James was likely not in our long term plans at TE, shouldn't TE have been a need LAST season? It is very rare to have a rookie tight end contribute early in the NFL. It is a huge jump for them with how much of an NFL playbook they have to learn and completely different from most college systems. Now, in my opinion, we are thin at TE this season. McDonald is injury prone and I fully expect this season there will be excuses as to our performance because McDonald missed games and it threw a wrench into our "game plans" because Gimble couldn't get the job done right. We might even be so desperate we sign a no-name guy off the street at TE and he gets substantial playing time ahead of Gentry (while this entire board asks "what are they doing?").

It might happen on the offensive line this year as well. We've milked this group a LONG time. They are all getting older. The best coach we had is gone. What if Villanueva goes down for an extended time frame? Pouncey? DeCastro? Do you see any decent depth in this group at all? A couple 4th rounders picked in the last 2 drafts is our hope?

How much does anyone here want to bet that after 2019, the GLARING hole on this team is offensive line depth and we force an offensive lineman in the draft round 1-2 (maybe even both rounds)? And how much do you want to bet that while ILB seemed to be EXPENSIVE in this draft (when we had to buy) and offensive linemen were CHEAP in this draft (comparably), that next year offensive lineman will be expensive in the draft when we need one.

It's kind of is what it is with this regime. Never getting ahead. Never making progress. Spinning wheels, talent-wise, in place.

 

[Vader]

Bell's combine weight was 234, Bush's 234. He did have 2 inches on Bush, but Bush has a 2" higher vertical.
Bell put on 10 lbs in the NFL. Many describe Bush as a Thumper and he might add some NFL weight himself.

Bell's frame could handle 250+ and he filled out a lot after the first year. He wasn't a speedster. He was a thumper. He ran a 4.62 40. He was drafted to play the run and plug the middle. Bush can't and won't fill that role. I've never seen Bush described as a thumper (run thumper). He can hit someone if he isn't blocked. But he struggles to get off blocks. I can give you many website that agree with that. I've never seen any of them say he was a run stopping thumper. He isn't anyway near the same type of ILB as Bell.

 

[Coryea]

There is NO DOUBT we draft for need under the Tombert era. No doubt. The concept of best player available is just foreign to them. Their entire board is stacked based on need. You'd be hard pressed to find a round 1 or round 2 pick at any position that wasn't a pretty glaring hole except MAYBE way back in 2008 when they picked Mendenhall, which failed big and they haven't done it since.

If I was only given one gripe about our drafting its that they do not project out need 2-3 years in advance. They don't read the tea leaves with contract talks, projected salary cap issues, etc. and it constantly puts us in position year-in, year-out where we have some pretty glaring gaps trying to build the roster.

For example (and this is minor, but typical), if the GM/coach knew a year ago that Jesse James was likely not in our long term plans at TE, shouldn't TE have been a need LAST season? It is very rare to have a rookie tight end contribute early in the NFL. It is a huge jump for them with how much of an NFL playbook they have to learn and completely different from most college systems. Now, in my opinion, we are thin at TE this season. McDonald is injury prone and I fully expect this season there will be excuses as to our performance because McDonald missed games and it threw a wrench into our "game plans" because Gimble couldn't get the job done right. We might even be so desperate we sign a no-name guy off the street at TE and he gets substantial playing time ahead of Gentry (while this entire board asks "what are they doing?").

It might happen on the offensive line this year as well. We've milked this group a LONG time. They are all getting older. The best coach we had is gone. What if Villanueva goes down for an extended time frame? Pouncey? DeCastro? Do you see any decent depth in this group at all? A couple 4th rounders picked in the last 2 drafts is our hope?

How much does anyone here want to bet that after 2019, the GLARING hole on this team is offensive line depth and we force an offensive lineman in the draft round 1-2 (maybe even both rounds)? And how much do you want to bet that while ILB seemed to be EXPENSIVE in this draft (when we had to buy) and offensive linemen were CHEAP in this draft (comparably), that next year offensive lineman will be expensive in the draft when we need one.

It's kind of is what it is with this regime. Never getting ahead. Never making progress. Spinning wheels, talent-wise, in place.

You can't have starters/pro bowl caliber players every where, including you're depth. They are called back ups for a reason, Fieler and Chukes were both back ups going into last season and they both played very well this year when they got in, well enough we traded Gilbert away, Finney is very good as a back up, and I believe Fieler can play OG as well. They also have Gerald Hawkins from LSU they drafted in 2016 at Tackle who they're pretty high on if he can stay healthy.

The majority of teams got guys at positions they needed and bypassed BPA. Especially the teams taking QB's.

 

[Hines57]

BPA is relative to your team needs. You aren't going to draft a C in round 1 if that's the top guy on your draft board. You will move on to the BPA for your need. If this team didn't have holes, then maybe they could take a guy as a luxury pick but we haven't won a Super Bowl in 10 years. That needs to change.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

There is NO DOUBT we draft for need under the Tombert era. No doubt. The concept of best player available is just foreign to them. Their entire board is stacked based on need. You'd be hard pressed to find a round 1 or round 2 pick at any position that wasn't a pretty glaring hole except MAYBE way back in 2008 when they picked Mendenhall, which failed big and they haven't done it since.

If I was only given one gripe about our drafting its that they do not project out need 2-3 years in advance. They don't read the tea leaves with contract talks, projected salary cap issues, etc. and it constantly puts us in position year-in, year-out where we have some pretty glaring gaps trying to build the roster.

For example (and this is minor, but typical), if the GM/coach knew a year ago that Jesse James was likely not in our long term plans at TE, shouldn't TE have been a need LAST season? It is very rare to have a rookie tight end contribute early in the NFL. It is a huge jump for them with how much of an NFL playbook they have to learn and completely different from most college systems. Now, in my opinion, we are thin at TE this season. McDonald is injury prone and I fully expect this season there will be excuses as to our performance because McDonald missed games and it threw a wrench into our "game plans" because Gimble couldn't get the job done right. We might even be so desperate we sign a no-name guy off the street at TE and he gets substantial playing time ahead of Gentry (while this entire board asks "what are they doing?").

It might happen on the offensive line this year as well. We've milked this group a LONG time. They are all getting older. The best coach we had is gone. What if Villanueva goes down for an extended time frame? Pouncey? DeCastro? Do you see any decent depth in this group at all? A couple 4th rounders picked in the last 2 drafts is our hope?

How much does anyone here want to bet that after 2019, the GLARING hole on this team is offensive line depth and we force an offensive lineman in the draft round 1-2 (maybe even both rounds)? And how much do you want to bet that while ILB seemed to be EXPENSIVE in this draft (when we had to buy) and offensive linemen were CHEAP in this draft (comparably), that next year offensive lineman will be expensive in the draft when we need one.

It's kind of is what it is with this regime. Never getting ahead. Never making progress. Spinning wheels, talent-wise, in place.

The problem is they keep missing. They keep having to redraft positions year after year. Look at all the picks spent on the secondary and what do they have to show for it? Haden is the only dependable starter and they had to bring in Nelson. Neither drafted by the steelers.

Edmunds might still turn out good but his rookie year did not have anybody putting him down in ink as a solution at safety. Davis has just been OK and he's the big draft success story in the secondary. They should have hit on a good player out of pure random luck at this point.

I don't understand how they let TE become so thin. James did not break the bank in Detroit. If they were going to let him go then they had to address TE higher in the draft.

What the hell has Grimble ever done to give the steelers such confidence in him? McDonald has a long injury history. The steelers approach to TE this offseason says they are comfortable with Grimble starting if McDonald got hurt.

 

[FordFairLane]

There is NO DOUBT we draft for need under the Tombert era. No doubt. The concept of best player available is just foreign to them. Their entire board is stacked based on need. You'd be hard pressed to find a round 1 or round 2 pick at any position that wasn't a pretty glaring hole except MAYBE way back in 2008 when they picked Mendenhall, which failed big and they haven't done it since.

If I was only given one gripe about our drafting its that they do not project out need 2-3 years in advance. They don't read the tea leaves with contract talks, projected salary cap issues, etc. and it constantly puts us in position year-in, year-out where we have some pretty glaring gaps trying to build the roster.

For example (and this is minor, but typical), if the GM/coach knew a year ago that Jesse James was likely not in our long term plans at TE, shouldn't TE have been a need LAST season? It is very rare to have a rookie tight end contribute early in the NFL. It is a huge jump for them with how much of an NFL playbook they have to learn and completely different from most college systems. Now, in my opinion, we are thin at TE this season. McDonald is injury prone and I fully expect this season there will be excuses as to our performance because McDonald missed games and it threw a wrench into our "game plans" because Gimble couldn't get the job done right. We might even be so desperate we sign a no-name guy off the street at TE and he gets substantial playing time ahead of Gentry (while this entire board asks "what are they doing?").

It might happen on the offensive line this year as well. We've milked this group a LONG time. They are all getting older. The best coach we had is gone. What if Villanueva goes down for an extended time frame? Pouncey? DeCastro? Do you see any decent depth in this group at all? A couple 4th rounders picked in the last 2 drafts is our hope?

How much does anyone here want to bet that after 2019, the GLARING hole on this team is offensive line depth and we force an offensive lineman in the draft round 1-2 (maybe even both rounds)? And how much do you want to bet that while ILB seemed to be EXPENSIVE in this draft (when we had to buy) and offensive linemen were CHEAP in this draft (comparably), that next year offensive lineman will be expensive in the draft when we need one.

It's kind of is what it is with this regime. Never getting ahead. Never making progress. Spinning wheels, talent-wise, in place.

http://www.steelernationforums.com/showthread.php?t=4017


Yes, the Steelers never look ahead. Funny part is look at my previous draft I am always looking ahead with my draft picks.


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