Is Tomlin viewed more favorably outside of SN

[Djfan]

To me this is all speculation and too easy for someone to say, 'Well, we don't know that and veer the discussion.

I know they have lost. They haven't won **** in what, 14 years? That is absolutely indisputable and should have been, or should be enough for a change. There is no speculation there, it is easily provable.

We just won't agree.

Sad that two people can disagree on why MT is not all that, but still agree that he is not all that. That alone speaks volumes.

 

[diver]

We just won't agree.

Sad that two people can disagree on why MT is not all that, but still agree that he is not all that. That alone speaks volumes.

Well, at the end of the day, if we had any power to change it, there would be a different coach. My point is I think the provable results are enough proof that change is needed. I think when we get off in the weeds on arguments that can be speculative holes can be poked in the argument.

 

[Djfan]

Well, at the end of the day, if we had any power to change it, there would be a different coach. My point is I think the provable results are enough proof that change is needed. I think when we get off in the weeds on arguments that can be speculative holes can be poked in the argument.

I agree with the premise about arguments, but I disagree with you about what the weeds are or are not.

Rock on, Sir.

 

[deljzc]

Honestly, this is a big demarcation of Tomlin's tenure as head coach. This is the first year without Colbert and Roethlisberger. Despite what Tomlin says, the standards WILL be different, at least in the short term.

What we really should be talking about is what his true grade is from 2007 to 2021. The true grade for Colbert - Tomlin - Roethlisberger "era". It's been a frustrating time for me. I definitely felt after 2008 that we were positioned to create a pretty good, dynasty-type run. And that didn't happen. And then sort of the "2nd phase" of this run was a sort of re-build, but still disappointing. And then once re-built with completely new pieces around (all Tomlin players), we had this past 5 year stretch which again, was underwhelming.

I rate this era of Steelers history as a C-

Not as bad as 1983-1991 (post Bradshaw/70's) and not as good as 1992-2006 (Cowher).

I honestly think Cowher's tenure, performance wise (over achievement) was better than Tomlin's to date, which to me has a lot of underachievement.

This is a new era. Maybe it's amazing. Maybe Pickett is a superstar and Tomlin and Kahn ride him to a new decade of glory and achievement. It could happen. It is that up in the air right now. The possibilities are so wide and endless there it almost isn't even worth guessing at.

In 10 years (or less if we flop and he is fired) we'll have our answer.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Well, at the end of the day, if we had any power to change it, there would be a different coach. My point is I think the provable results are enough proof that change is needed. I think when we get off in the weeds on arguments that can be speculative holes can be poked in the argument.

Bottom line, I think Shades hit his expiration date at 15 years just like Noll and Cowher did before him and it’s time to get on with his life’s work on TV and Miller Lite commercials.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Ben carried that team very often. Any mid-tier scheme would have won more. Any coach who CHANGED HIS SIGNALS AND SETS WHEN PLAYING THE CHEATERS would have won more. Any coach who has heard of halftime adjustments, or getting rid of non-performing plays, playing to an opponents weaknesses, not just "I called a play. You didn't execute" would have done better.

Tomlin won't, can't, or never heard of these things.

Sorry to go off on a tangent, but Eli Manning beat Tom Br*dy in the Super Bowl twice. Does that mean he is a better QB than Br*dy or did HC Tom Coughlin changing his signals for the Super Bowl games have something to do with it? Does that make Coughlin a better coach than Belicheat on a level playing field, so to speak?

 

[Djfan]

Sorry to go off on a tangent, but Eli Manning beat Tom Br*dy in the Super Bowl twice. Does that mean he is a better QB than Br*dy or did HC Tom Coughlin changing his signals for the Super Bowl games have something to do with it? Does that make Coughlin a better coach than Belicheat on a level playing field, so to speak?

I genuinely don't know.

 

[Litos]

Sorry to go off on a tangent, but Eli Manning beat Tom Br*dy in the Super Bowl twice. Does that mean he is a better QB than Br*dy or did HC Tom Coughlin changing his signals for the Super Bowl games have something to do with it? Does that make Coughlin a better coach than Belicheat on a level playing field, so to speak?

Yeah, **** bellycheat, red hot poker, etc, etc.

 

[Confluence]

Many let the stats get to his betterment but fail to remember some of the most stupidest things on field. Inoportune attemps at the 2 point conversion coming back to haunt, Non-field goal attemps to haunt later in game. 1st and goal from the 3 and all pass plays saving clock for opponent, amongst many many more.

That is how you squander a HOF qaurterback.



Salute the nation

3rd and 1, nearing end of game in a snowstorm with howling winds at the Factory of Sadness and the call is
Five Wide *******!
What in the everliving **** was that?
Zero playoff wins since.

 

[Drink IRON City]

3rd and 1, nearing end of game in a snowstorm with howling winds at the Factory of Sadness and the call is
Five Wide *******!
What in the everliving **** was that?
Zero playoff wins since.

A-N-D

Some don't think that is "sqaundering".......................



Salute the nation

 

[SojournerSteel]

Except the team got increasingly worse as Cowher’s players and coaches retired or moved on. Shades has had 11 years to do it on his own and hasn’t showed me anything yet.

The better fly gets the credit, just like better players and staff. You haven’t changed the way you fish.

Tomlin inherited much kinetic energy from those Cowher rosters as Cowher did from Noll. Tomlin spent the better part of a decade trying to draft a defense once the Cowher Core aged out, and by that time he had squandered his franchise QB.

Cowher was much better able to retool than Tomlin and get more out of less. The historic defensive shellackings at home in the playoffs are on Tomlin.

In reality, he should have been let go after the Jags loss. As it stands now, would probably take 2-3 losing seasons to convince him to walk away. I'm not sure he would ever be fired. If anything, the organization continues to double down and give him more hegemony over personnel and culture.

But I seriously doubt he wins another playoff game and seems to drift closer to Marvin Lewis with each passing year.

Cowher teams were tough and had an identity. Tomlin teams since 2011 not so much.

 

[SojournerSteel]

Honestly, this is a big demarcation of Tomlin's tenure as head coach. This is the first year without Colbert and Roethlisberger. Despite what Tomlin says, the standards WILL be different, at least in the short term.

What we really should be talking about is what his true grade is from 2007 to 2021. The true grade for Colbert - Tomlin - Roethlisberger "era". It's been a frustrating time for me. I definitely felt after 2008 that we were positioned to create a pretty good, dynasty-type run. And that didn't happen. And then sort of the "2nd phase" of this run was a sort of re-build, but still disappointing. And then once re-built with completely new pieces around (all Tomlin players), we had this past 5 year stretch which again, was underwhelming.

I rate this era of Steelers history as a C-

Not as bad as 1983-1991 (post Bradshaw/70's) and not as good as 1992-2006 (Cowher).

I honestly think Cowher's tenure, performance wise (over achievement) was better than Tomlin's to date, which to me has a lot of underachievement.

This is a new era. Maybe it's amazing. Maybe Pickett is a superstar and Tomlin and Kahn ride him to a new decade of glory and achievement. It could happen. It is that up in the air right now. The possibilities are so wide and endless there it almost isn't even worth guessing at.

In 10 years (or less if we flop and he is fired) we'll have our answer.

Why did so many of the Cowher assistants get HC jobs? Because the schemes were fresh and innovative -- think Haslett, Gailey, Capers, etc.

Tomlin was hired under an old paradigm -- "a young defensive-minded head coach."

The paradigm has since shifted 180 degrees to "young offensive-minded head coach" and the league is no longer set up for dominant defense.

So Tomlin goes out and hires Matt Canada, for example. He's well behind the curve. Not optimistic at all he can jump back on top. He doesn't have the offensive mind nor chops at this stage. He's stale.

Almost like tanks on the battlefield in 2022.

 

[stuntmanmike]

You can’t have a fair conversation about coach Tomlin without race somehow getting thrown in, but, Steelers fans had same problems with Bill Cowher. he got to a super bowl with basically coach Noll’s roster then was up and down untill he finally drafted Big Ben. But the last year, before we drafted Ben, the fire cowher chorus was pretty loud. Tomlin rode Cowher’s roster to a couple superbowls and has been floundering since most of the cowher players have left. watching both Cowher and Tomlin flop against the Cheatroits has been painful. No doubt the rest of the league thinks the world of Tomlin, thinks all his critics are racist, but the league liked Cowher too. Maybe as Steelers we’re too close to see the forest through the trees. But tomlin has really made some boneheaded calls and he’s gutted what was once a vaulted defense. If we lose Ironhead2 and fitz at same time things would get ugly very fast. With Ben gone and Kenny in his place, Canada on offense and his buddy now DC, this is coach Tomlin’s team. I see the offense being better than many think this year but the defense stinking… we’ll be around .500 and but with a good draft for the defense next year…. well be set up for some real super bowl runs and with a mature coach Tomlin, like Cowher before him, I see him rewarding the Rooneys and Pittsburgh with a few new trophy’s for the case. GoSteelers!

 

[Ron Burgundy]

But I seriously doubt he wins another playoff game and seems to drift closer to Marvin Lewis with each passing year.

Tomlin is Marvin Lewis with a better owner and GM.
He never gets them to another Super Bowl and may never win another playoff game.

 

[deljzc]

It is rare for a coach to last through multiple "eras" in his tenure, particularly in todays game. And "eras" are normally defined around QB issues: either you make the best out of a middle QB with an exceptional scheme/team around him, you make the best out of a superstar QB on the cheap (either rookie deal or bargain), or you have to deal with a franchise QB sucking up a lot of cap space.

Almost every era of a coach falls under those three categories. You could argue Sean Payton had Brees on the cheap because of his contract coming off shoulder surgery when he won (so that was a great "era") but then struggled when they started paying Brees top dollar (never could get over the hump).

Andy Reid has early McNabb era, middle franchise McNabb era, non-McNabb era, early Mahomes era and now he's in the franchise Mahomes era. Again, each of those era's was a bit different.

We could argue Tomlin had "early Roethlisberger era" (when he was affordable), which is when they won, but once Roethlisberger became "franchise Roethlisberger" and especially that lockout season with no cap/first year back with a cap (in 2010/2011?), I think that screwed us and our finances (blame Colbert for that somewhat) for a long time. This team never could really win with Roethlisberger as a franchise guy getting franchise money.

But then Sean Payton couldn't win once they paid Brees. And they couldn't win up in Green Bay once they paid Rogers either. Harbaugh couldn't win once they paid Flacco. Even Seattle couldn't win once they paid Russel Wilson.

Eras have kind of "mini eras" inside them. And Tomlin hasn't really done well in any except that first era with Cowher's players and Roethlisberger still under his rookie contract (which was still manageable). Once about 2010 hit, once the finances changed (and where Tomlin was making decisions on who he wanted to keep with big contracts), the wheels starter getting wobbly on this franchise.

They thought MAYBE they had a run here the last 3 seasons, but by that time I don't think Roethlisberger was good enough or worth his "franchise" title much anymore. Took Tomlin too long.

Ideally, if Pickett is the real deal, we have a window that during his first 6 seasons, he is "cheap" or getting underpaid vs. his performance on the field. That type of overperformance vs. cost (especially at the QB position) can create a window of opportunity for a coach/GM to succeed.

That's why this era coming up is so uncertain. Is Pickett going to overperform? Can Tomlin succeed if that happens? Can Kahn?

I'm not saying it has to happen this season. But you have to hope that in 2-3 years we are good again. Maybe even really good. But that takes a lot to go right. It's why even if you don't like Tomlin, the uncertainty makes it fun to be a fan again. I think if fans were honest with themselves over the last 5 seasons, we all knew what was going to happen - no uncertainty = no fun as a fan. Now we have that again.

 

[TheRealTazz864]

He has a losing playoff record with a HOF QB his entire career ,Cowher was 5 - 1 in the playoffs with the same QB.Tomlon does less with more than any head coach in NFL history.

That's not true... If you're as results-oriented as it seems you are, look at Bell and Brown's "careers" after they left a Tomlin-coached team... No real results to speak of...
Tomlin has done more with what he had than most NFL coaches...

 

[TheRealTazz864]

Technically, refreshing a website has sh*t to do with factual information that's been the same for months. Since you seem to be having great difficulties with the simple certainty that Tomlin is indeed 8-9 in the playoffs, I'll spell out the details for you (I'll try to type slowly):

Tomlin has coached the Steelers for 15 seasons. His teams have made the postseason 10 times.

Super Bowl win (2008): 3-0
Super Bowl loss (2010): 2-1
AFC Championship loss (2016): 2-1
Divisional round loss (2015): 1-1
Six others one-and-done: 0-6 (not 7 as you indicated above)

Now, if you add up the grand total there, my friend, what do you get? Why, yes, it's 8-9! See how that works? Amazing!


Jesus Christ. No, it's not been 4 seasons since the Steelers made the playoffs, since they made them last season. It has, however, been FIVE seasons without a postseason win, which last came in January of 2017 (the conclusion of the 2016 season).

Let's count them together!

No playoff wins in the 2017 season...one!
No playoff wins in the 2018 season...two!
No playoff wins in the 2019 season...three!
No playoff wins in the 2020 season...four!
No playoff wins in the 2021 season...five!

Yay!

All cleared up, big guy? Ready for a Juicy Juice?

Didn't the Steelers make the playoffs in the 2016-2017 season?? See, there's your problem.... Let's look at your list:
No Playoff wins in the 2017 season... both the 2017-2018 and the 2016-2017 seasons encompass "2017..." Which one do you mean??

2017-2018 season ONE!
2018-2019 season TWO!
2019-2020 season THREE!
2020-2021 season FOUR!
2021-2022 season FIVE!

I was disputing the claim that it had been 6 years since the Steelers had a playoff win... 2017-2022 is six years; but as you pointed out, only 5 seasons... Thank you for proving that for me... Now, did you say you have juice boxes???

 

[Drink IRON City]

You can’t have a fair conversation about coach Tomlin without race somehow getting thrown in, but, Steelers fans had same problems with Bill Cowher. he got to a super bowl with basically coach Noll’s roster then was up and down untill he finally drafted Big Ben. But the last year, before we drafted Ben, the fire cowher chorus was pretty loud. Tomlin rode Cowher’s roster to a couple superbowls and has been floundering since most of the cowher players have left. watching both Cowher and Tomlin flop against the Cheatroits has been painful. No doubt the rest of the league thinks the world of Tomlin, thinks all his critics are racist, but the league liked Cowher too. Maybe as Steelers we’re too close to see the forest through the trees. But tomlin has really made some boneheaded calls and he’s gutted what was once a vaulted defense. If we lose Ironhead2 and fitz at same time things would get ugly very fast. With Ben gone and Kenny in his place, Canada on offense and his buddy now DC, this is coach Tomlin’s team. I see the offense being better than many think this year but the defense stinking… we’ll be around .500 and but with a good draft for the defense next year…. well be set up for some real super bowl runs and with a mature coach Tomlin, like Cowher before him, I see him rewarding the Rooneys and Pittsburgh with a few new trophy’s for the case. GoSteelers!

Tomlin is Marvin Lewis with a better owner and GM.
He never gets them to another Super Bowl and may never win another playoff game.

ONE coin yet two sides.

I deeply respect both these post(s) because it could go either way. I'm on both sides simaltaniously yet impatent to see the out come.

I always want the positive and always feel the STEELERS have a chance, then the season starts and the Tomlin show begins, a show we've seen in the past.

Obviously I will pull for his team and hope Coach Tomlin will change some of his coaching tactics. I will see if those assistant's will step up and coach up the players. I will also watch to see if there is the lackadazicalness as in the past. I will watch to see if game plans improve but more importantly on field game adjustments as well.

Here's to a spectacular season in the good




Salute the nation

 

[topseed]

This is MT's biggest weakness in my opinion. His ego won't allow him to hire assistants he deems smarter than he is, and those he does hire aren't given
control to do the job they were hired for. Wash, rinse, repeat.

I agree with you, but I think Tomlin may get more than he bargained for with Brian Flores. Dude was an English major at Boston College, with a master's degree in administration.

 

[topseed]

Bottom line, I think Shades hit his expiration date at 15 years just like Noll and Cowher did before him and it’s time to get on with his life’s work on TV and Miller Lite commercials.

I think that Tomlin hit his expiration date about five years before that. I guess it's like the feeling I've gotten over that time period when the playoffs roll around -- like I just drank a full swallow of milk that's already gone bad.

 

[topseed]

Didn't the Steelers make the playoffs in the 2016-2017 season?? See, there's your problem.... Let's look at your list:
No Playoff wins in the 2017 season... both the 2017-2018 and the 2016-2017 seasons encompass "2017..." Which one do you mean??

2017-2018 season ONE!
2018-2019 season TWO!
2019-2020 season THREE!
2020-2021 season FOUR!
2021-2022 season FIVE!

I was disputing the claim that it had been 6 years since the Steelers had a playoff win... 2017-2022 is six years; but as you pointed out, only 5 seasons... Thank you for proving that for me... Now, did you say you have juice boxes???

They sure did make the playoffs in 2016, chief. Just like I said they did. I can't believe I have to go over this again.

Were the Steelers the 1979 world champions? Why, yes...even though they won the Super Bowl in January 1980. Are the 2008 Steelers known as NFL champions? Why, yes, indeed they are...even though they won the Super Bowl in February 2009. See a pattern here, buddy?

Obviously the years I listed there are when the regular season began -- the vast majority of the season is played out before the new year, even now, with 17 games. It's universally accepted through every statistical outlet what constitutes a football season. Apparently you are the only asswipe east of the Pecos (or west of it, for that matter) that has adopted the dual-year notation for the NFL. This isn't hockey, oh intelligent one.

I didn't prove sh*t for you. YOU said that the Steelers hadn't made the playoffs in four years. YOU were WRONG. Even if you meant to say that it's only been four years since they won a postseason game, you are still WRONG. People saying it's been six years since they've won a playoff game are also WRONG. The 2022 season has not been played yet, so they correct answer, once again, is FIVE.

I'm thinking more along the lines of a double-dose of Advil, at this point.

 

[Hypocycloids]

Why did so many of the Cowher assistants get HC jobs? Because the schemes were fresh and innovative -- think Haslett, Gailey, Capers, etc.

Tomlin was hired under an old paradigm -- "a young defensive-minded head coach."

The paradigm has since shifted 180 degrees to "young offensive-minded head coach" and the league is no longer set up for dominant defense.

So Tomlin goes out and hires Matt Canada, for example. He's well behind the curve. Not optimistic at all he can jump back on top. He doesn't have the offensive mind nor chops at this stage. He's stale.

Almost like tanks on the battlefield in 2022.

.....anything else? lol

 

[JMM]

Yes, yes he is. Steeler Nation is spoiled. Many here must not watch any games other than the Steelers or pay attention to what other teams do

is Tomlin perfect, definitely not, but he is not the clueless bumbling idiot several here want you to believe he is

Is Steelers Head Coach Mike Tomlin Viewed Better Outside of Pittsburgh Than Inside?

The outlandish, but never-ending debate on whether Pittsburgh Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin is the right man for the job continues well into 2022. Despite over two decades of coaching experience, not ever having a losing season as a head coach, seven AFC North titles, nine playoff appearances...

www.steelernation.com

Good job!!!!

Way to keep the off-season interesting!

 

[Ron Burgundy]

My new comeback for people who say, "How come Cowher didn't win with Cowher's team?" is "I dunno, how come Tomlin was 9-7 the year after he won the Super Bowl?"

 

[Ron Burgundy]

3rd and 1, nearing end of game in a snowstorm with howling winds at the Factory of Sadness and the call is
Five Wide *******!
What in the everliving **** was that?
Zero playoff wins since.

Also at the time the Browns had one of the worst run defenses in the league.
"Lessee, we're playing in horrible weather and our opponent has a poor run defense. I know! We'll pass all day, they'll never be expecting that."
That's another one of Tomlin's issues, sometimes he tries to be too smart by half instead of taking what the other team gives you.