Jason Worilds

[ZACKB]

What about a guy like Derick Morgan? He played under Horton in Tenn and can certainly rush the passer. Pay him 5 mil/yr and let Worlids walk. Hell, you could sign him and Brooks Reed for what Worlids wants.

 

[SteelerFan448]

4 other OLB had more QH and 6 other OLB had more TFL.

Who are the other four and where did you find your stats? This site has him tied for 36th in the league http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/defense-tackles-for-loss. Hurries are a subjective stat kept by teams, so I don't put much stock into those numbers.

 

[ark steel]

Who are the other four and where did you find your stats? This site has him tied for 36th in the league http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/defense-tackles-for-loss. Hurries are a subjective stat kept by teams, so I don't put much stock into those numbers.

You can note that I said 6 other OLB with more TFL not compared to the entire NFL. Seems like you should compare like positions.

You can dismiss the QH Stat if you want, but wouldn't other teams also be inflated? Relatively, you would expect the same range for players. the actual stats might be off a little, but overall ranking should be close. If he is 7th among OLB, he ain't going to be ranked 20th, when you look at every single OLB more closely

I should also be more clear. The question I was answering was about how many times you see JW hurrying a QB or tackling for a loss. I used QH, which means QB Hits, not QB Hurries. Presumably, there should be a decent correlation between QB hits and hurries.

 

[Vader]

1a. If worilds WAS terrible against the run, he was still performing at or near the highest output (production) for ANY LOLB in the league. 59 tackles is only 9 short of Justin Houston's. Woodley only broke the 60 tackle mark 1 time in his career.

2a. Don't know which season you meant to say but 2013 was Worilds' best season statistically AND he played in every game except 1.

3a. Because I watched the games and paid attention back then AND Gildon had 11 passes defensed in '97. When is the last time a Steeler LB had more than 5 in a season?

Listen, I get NOT wanting to overpay Worilds...again BUT he was consistently 'above avg' which is what I think he's worth. (=>6mil/yr)

Graham was PFF's TOP rated edge rusher last year and their 2nd rated run defender (after Deebo). Worilds was rated at #11 in pass rush for OLBs. Graham's issue is he is weak against the pass.

1- LOL tackle stats prove nothing because you can't tell if it is a run OR a pass. You're guessing which one.

2- I said he missed ONE game. Did you even read what I wrote? But obviously you don't remember he was hurt half the year. Go back and look it up. He had a hurt wrist and a hurt leg.

3. So you "paid attention" to something that happened almost 20 years ago? I'm calling bullshit. Also he had 8 pass defenses in 2001 when he had 12 sacks. So your stats don't prove what you think they do. So did they stop dropping him in coverage or not? You only used the PD stats when it suited you. But you failed to mention that he had almost as many PD when he had 12 sacks several years later.

Also Harrison had 5 PDs in 2010 with 2 ints. with 10.5 sacks and 70 solo tackles. Timmons had 9 the same year. So it isn't as rare as you seem to think.

4. Worilds is vastly over rated by many. I haven't look but why list Graham's PFF numbers and even mention Harrison but only used Worilds pass rush stat? What was Worilds run defender number? What was his pass defender number?

 

[Supersteeler]

4. Worilds is vastly over rated by many.

The problem with this statement is the people that are "overrating" him in your estimation think he is basically average or a little above. So if anyone doesn't think he is off the charts horrible, in your mind they are overrating him. Nobody has said that he is anything more than average or maybe slightly above average. I don't know anyone who thinks he is a great player. However, I won't agree that he is one of the worst LB's in the entire league, because that is a silly exaggeration. The other problem is that a lot of the chronic over-exaggerators contend that the Steelers All Time Sack Leader was off the charts horrible as well, which is another silly statement.

 

[slashsteel]

here is my numero uno with Woirlds

in a contract year he was slightly above average at best

knowing players usually stand out in that year, he was forgettable

for a 3/4 OLber that is concerning

for me we have seen his best and I came away unimpressed

I am hoping the Steelers do not overpay two years in a row for less than impressive play

 

[Confluence]

Worilds has had two years to impress. He did flash for a stint in 2013 that got him a nice one year reward in 2014. In 2014, the numbers suggest he was serviceable or average. Perhaps he graded out even better internally. But he made no big plays, no significant game changing stops, TOs, etc. Moats made a few splash plays, Jones did in preseason. I'd have thought that a Steeler OLB with that much playing time, in D specifically set up for them to make big plays, would have had something to point to in a contract year.

Maybe the Steelers FO takes this approach, signs him to 5 years at $6m per, and he has a breakout 2015.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Worilds has had two years to impress. He did flash for a stint in 2013 that got him a nice one year reward in 2014. In 2014, the numbers suggest he was serviceable or average. Perhaps he graded out even better internally. But he made no big plays, no significant game changing stops, TOs, etc. Moats made a few splash plays, Jones did in preseason. I'd have thought that a Steeler OLB with that much playing time, in D specifically set up for them to make big plays, would have had something to point to in a contract year.

Maybe the Steelers FO takes this approach, signs him to 5 years at $6m per, and he has a breakout 2015.

With the history of this front office, it wouldn't surprise me as a "TAG" move. You and I can see it from a mile, the guy is a 4-6mil player, looking at a 13mil "tag". Flip the coin, leave the sunglasses on, call it in the air.



Salute the nation

 

[Vader]

The problem with this statement is the people that are "overrating" him in your estimation think he is basically average or a little above. So if anyone doesn't think he is off the charts horrible, in your mind they are overrating him. Nobody has said that he is anything more than average or maybe slightly above average. I don't know anyone who thinks he is a great player. However, I won't agree that he is one of the worst LB's in the entire league, because that is a silly exaggeration. The other problem is that a lot of the chronic over-exaggerators contend that the Steelers All Time Sack Leader was off the charts horrible as well, which is another silly statement.

Many have said he is above average which is over rating him IMHO. I say he is below average so your characterization of my beliefs are wrong. I never said he was off the charts horrible. I haven't seen anyone say that. So you present 2 false narratives in your post. Little above average VS. off the charts horrible. The truth is that many say he is above average while other say he is below average or average.

Why pay him $10 million to be average? Why sign him to a long term deal to be average even if he takes a pay cut? Moats out played Worilds at a tougher position in half the time. Let Worilds walk and move Moats to LOLB and then find a cheaper FA or draft pick to back up your outside LBs.

 

[F83]

He is above average he is not a a coverage OLB so DL should of not had him early in the year in coverage so often, as for those who say he did'nt make enough play's remember that intc vs Luck was big a nice return and likely prevented 7 pt's the way on that drive Luck was playing. We can't afford to make the mistake of giving him v10 mill like we did with Woodley but Woodley wasa beast back then Worlids is above average 6-6.75 mill avg take it or leave per year.
If he walks you have more than enough money to replace Ike with Maxwell as well as possibly upgrade other areas like maybe pursue SS Anter Rolle and OLB Sheard at the same time or just Maxwell, DE Clayborn, DE /OLB Hughes and Sheard.
if we use what we would give to worlids on Maxwell then load up the DL with a mix of say 3 hybrid front players i.e Clayborn, Hughes @ Sheard that fixes our pass rush, then we can approach the draft like this
1 NT/DE Goldman
2 CB Olumu
3 S Holliman
4 CB

 

[Supersteeler]

Many have said he is above average which is over rating him IMHO. I say he is below average so your characterization of my beliefs are wrong. I never said he was off the charts horrible. I haven't seen anyone say that. So you present 2 false narratives in your post. Little above average VS. off the charts horrible. The truth is that many say he is above average while other say he is below average or average.

Why pay him $10 million to be average? Why sign him to a long term deal to be average even if he takes a pay cut? Moats out played Worilds at a tougher position in half the time. Let Worilds walk and move Moats to LOLB and then find a cheaper FA or draft pick to back up your outside LBs.

Great.....more Idiotique semantics arguments, I love them so. Let's see if we can knock out 25 pages on the difference between 1) "Average:,2) "Slightly Above Average" 3) "Below Average" and 4) "Slightly Below Average". As to my "false narrative: that you think he is "off the charts horrible". Ok, I retract that if you think that doesn't sum up your opinion. Let's go with "He sucks" then. Does that more fit your opinion? You have to help me hear, without the vagueness because it's tough to get a handle on. I've laid out exactly what I think about him.

On to your point, you are trying to argue with me about something we are on completely on the same page with. If you read anything I have said on Worilds, I'm completely not in favor of giving him 10 Million a year. I've said several times already that 6-7 Million Per is as high as I would go. If he wants more than that which he seems to, he can test the market. I would also absolutely be in favor of keeping Moats around. My opinion is that Worilds is getting paid in FA and will be gone. That's ok, but they are going to look elsewhere in FA if possible even if they keep Moats. Jones is too much of an unknown to count on without a backup plan. If he pans out this year great, but you don't want to go into the season without decent depth.

 

[Vader]

Great.....more Idiotique semantics arguments, these are so much fun. Let's see if we can knock out 25 pages on the difference between 1) "Average:,2) "Slightly Above Average" and 3) "Slightly Below Average".

To your point I agree with you. If you read anything I have said on Worilds, I'm completely not in favor of giving him 10 Million a year. As I have state already, 6-7 Million Per is as high as I would go. If he wants more than that which he seems to, he can test the market. I would absolutely be in favor of keeping Moats around. My opinion is that Worilds is getting paid in FA and will be gone. That's ok, but they are going to look elsewhere in FA if possible even if they keep Moats. Jones is too much of an unknown to count on without a backup plan. If he pans out this year great, but you don't want ot go into the season without decent depth.

If I had say you were in love with Worilds you would have bitched. But you think it's perfectly ok to use the same type of language (off the charts horrible) to characterize my beliefs. Sorry but I'm always going to say what I mean NOT what you mischaracterize my beliefs to mean. Strange how you didn't put in 4. off the charts horrible? But I know why.

Now to the football part. We agree on that. Worilds should test FA and someone will over pay him. It happens all the time. Jones is a toss up so they are going to have to get a FA and possibly a draft pick to cover it.

 

[Supersteeler]

If I had say you were in love with Worilds you would have bitched. But you think it's perfectly ok to use the same type of language (off the charts horrible) to characterize my beliefs. Sorry but I'm always going to say what I mean NOT what you mischaracterize my beliefs to mean. Strange how you didn't put in 4. off the charts horrible? But I know why.

Now to the football part. We agree on that. Worilds should test FA and someone will over pay him. It happens all the time. Jones is a toss up so they are going to have to get a FA and possibly a draft pick to cover it.

Go back and give it another re-read, I already edited it because I realized I didn't address that and knew you would jump all over it. I retracted of the charts horrible. "I think he sucks". Is that more accurate? Legitimately I really don't know how you feel because you are vague and you DON'T ever say what you mean just like the other fella. For instance, what would you offer Worilds in FA? I have no idea because I don't know anything other than you ***** about his play all the time but you are offended that I say you think he's horrible. Help me out here so I can get a better picture. I don't know if you would offer him 5 million, 1 million 1 dollar or nothing and tell him to get out of your office. How would you proceed without the hemming and hawing?

 

[Vader]

Go back and give it another re-read, I already edited it because I realized I didn't address that and knew you would jump all over it. I retracted of the charts horrible. "I think he sucks". Is that more accurate? Legitimately I really don't know how you feel because you are vague and you DON'T ever say what you mean just like the other fella. For instance, what would you offer Worilds in FA? I have no idea because I don't know anything other than you ***** about his play all the time but you are offended that I say you think he's horrible. Help me out here so I can get a better picture. I don't know if you would offer him 5 million, 1 million 1 dollar or nothing and tell him to get out of your office. How would you proceed without the hemming and hawing?

You think I'm vague because you aren't paying attention. I said this in post #184:

Let Worilds walk and move Moats to LOLB and then find a cheaper FA or draft pick to back up your outside LBs.

Seriously how could you read what I wrote and then turn around and say I'm being vague?

 

[Supersteeler]

You think I'm vague because you aren't paying attention. I said this in post #184:



Seriously how could you read what I wrote and then turn around and say I'm being vague?

So you are saying you would offer him absolutely nothing. And you are offended that I said you think he's horrible. Got it.

 

[Vader]

So you are saying you would offer him absolutely nothing. And you are offended that I said you think he's horrible. Got it.

LOL.. I don't even know why I discuss anything with you. You pay no attention to what I say and just use your own thoughts. I would let him walk because he is going to get more on the open market than I would pay. FAs almost always get more than they are worth. He has turned down every contract offer by the Steelers for TWO years. He isn't going to take $5 million per year. So I let him walk. They did the same thing with Wallace and I agreed with it. It didn't mean I thought Wallace was horrible. Damn this is so stupid.

If you can't understand that then just put me on ignore. I'm sick of this ****.

 

[keslerclan]

When WE look at one of our own players, we are inoperably jaded (either for or against) that player, IMO.

When the rest of the NFL scouts and draftniks weigh in, we tend to disagree. Worilds is largely regarded as the 2nd best FA 3-4 OLB prospect by most outside of Pittsburgh. However, PFF ranks him the #8 best Edge Defender in FA. I tend to agree with their assessment. They have:
Justin Houston
Jason Pierre Paul
Greg Hardy
Brandon Graham
Derrick Morgan
Pernell McPhee
Jason Worilds
Jerry Hughes
Brian Orakpo
Jabaal Sheard

This puts Worilds at the #5 spot of 3-4 Edge guys.
To me, I think it's fairly accurate. Not #5 in the league...#5 'available FA's. I believe PFF ranked him at #11 in the league last year.

 

[Supersteeler]

LOL.. I don't even know why I discuss anything with you. You pay no attention to what I say and just use your own thoughts. I would let him walk because he is going to get more on the open market than I would pay. FAs almost always get more than they are worth. He has turned down every contract offer by the Steelers for TWO years. He isn't going to take $5 million per year. So I let him walk. They did the same thing with Wallace and I agreed with it. It didn't mean I thought Wallace was horrible. Damn this is so stupid.

If you can't understand that then just put me on ignore. I'm sick of this ****.

Lol, I'm not trying to be a complete dick I swear to God. You are soooo difficult to decipher sometimes because it seems like you are deathly afraid of painting yourself into a corner with every other word so you are vague. Trust me, it drives me nuts too. I step in **** sometimes when I say things and that's ok. I'm ok with saying I was wrong and move on. It's all good.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it and It might be not even on purpose. But I know with Idiotique, he does it as a calculated method so he can NEVER be wrong. It's this Politician's method to be able to wriggle off the hook in all situations by being so vague that he always has room to proclaim himself right in EVERY situation. That's why I can't even discuss any topic with him. It's impossible.

 

[Vader]

Lol, I'm not trying to be a complete dick I swear to God. You are soooo difficult to decipher sometimes because it seems like you are deathly of painting yourself into a corner with every other word so you are vague. Trust me, it drives me nuts too. I step in **** sometimes when I say things and that's ok. I'm big enough to say I was wrong and move on. It's all good.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it and It might be not even on purpose. But I know with Idiotique, he does it as a calculated method so he can NEVER be wrong. It's this Politician's method to be able to wriggle off the hook in all situations by being so vague that he always has room. That's why I can't even discuss any topic with him. It's impossible.

Yea, I get that too. I'm not trying to be vague. I assume the people I'm talking too on here understand the background to what I'm talking about. I don't always feel the need to rehash a lot of information. I don't even pay attention to who I'm talking to sometimes. That's my fault.

I'm never trying to be obtuse. Worilds is simple to me. He's going to be expensive and I wouldn't pay the money. Just like Wallace a few years ago. To me it's the same situation. They tried to sign both and both turned them down. I would have hated to see them tag Wallace. Just as I hated to see them tag Worilds last year. Just move on and find someone else.

 

[jitter77]

I agree our pass rush specialists drop into coverage too much, but that still does not mean worilds was/can be good. We can get the same production from just about any 4-5mil OLB out there so why even entertain tagging him for 10+ million or signing him for 6-7mil per year. I just dont understand the logic some are trying to use other than we are paper thin at the position. The absolute max I would pay him would be 6mil and that is only out of being desperate.

 

[Supersteeler]

Yea, I get that too. I'm not trying to be vague. I assume the people I'm talking too on here understand the background to what I'm talking about. I don't always feel the need to rehash a lot of information. I don't even pay attention to who I'm talking to sometimes. That's my fault.

I'm never trying to be obtuse. Worilds is simple to me. He's going to be expensive and I wouldn't pay the money. Just like Wallace a few years ago. To me it's the same situation. They tried to sign both and both turned them down. I would have hated to see them tag Wallace. Just as I hated to see them tag Worilds last year. Just move on and find someone else.

Hey, no worries at all. It's a message board and it can be very difficult to keep track of who said what and when. Hell, I have trouble remembering what I said last month on here let alone somebody else.

We are in total agreement. He's not worth Tag money and neither was Wallace. As I said I think Worilds is gone. Some lousy team will give him 8-10 million. I let him go and sign Moats for a cap friendly 2 or 3 year deal. Then look for another decently price FA. If everyone is way overpriced, you just have to take your chances in the draft. And hope to God that Jones can play a full season and that his early decent play last year before the injury was a sign that the light is going on and not a fluke.

 

[Vader]

Hey, no worries at all. It's a message board and it can be very difficult to keep track of who said what and when. Hell, I have trouble remembering what I said last month on here let alone somebody else.

We are in total agreement. He's not worth Tag money and neither was Wallace. As I said I think Worilds is gone. Some lousy team will give him 8-10 million. I let him go and sign Moats for a cap friendly 2 or 3 year deal. Then look for another decently price FA. If everyone is way overpriced, you just have to take your chances in the draft. And hope to God that Jones can play a full season and that his early decent play last year before the injury was a sign that the light is going on and not a fluke.

Right. I'm more worried about ROLB. I'm sure Moats can handle LOLB. I'm not so sure Jones can handle ROLB. He is going to be the key next year.

 

[FordFairLane]

If we are going to "break the bank" on a rush defender it better bet Houston or JPP. JPP just turned 26 and has shown he can get after the QB with a 16.5 sack season and last year getting 12.5. Houston has just turned 26 and has had a 10, 11, and 22 sack seasons in his 4 year career. Worilds is almost 27 and has never hit double digit sacks or even 9 for that matter. I would give Houston a 5 year 50 million dollar deal or JPP a 5 year 45 million dollar deal in a heartbeat but Worilds I think deserves a 5 year 27 million dollar deal and that is the VERY most I would go.

 

[keslerclan]

Worst case scenario is to me:

We sign Moats to play at LOLB and Deebo to back-up Jones (probably the other way around). I don't think we lose too much with this scenario THOUGH I do think we must draft a future OLB high in this case.

Best case scenario is we are able to pluck Graham, McPhee, Morgan or Sheard (though I don't like Sheard at LOLB) or even Orakpo on a 'show me' contract and still do the above scenario as a safe guard to injuries.

I don't see us getting a starter in this draft UNLESS it is someone who is already NFL strong who can hold the edge in our sub-package sets. That's why I like Odighizuwa. He is only going to get more fluid in his hips as he is further from the surgeries and already is the strongest edge projection against the run. His hand speed and arm extension is also good. IMO, he is Pernell McPhee with potentially more upside (depending on his hips checking out as fully repaired). Nobody I have looked at has the leg drive to bull rush at the edge like this guy. He would be cheap which allows us to sign a FA or 2 somewhere else as needed as well.

IF Worilds was willing to sign a 5mil/yr contract (which he won't), I'd gladly take him up on it BUT I know what I'm getting too. An above average OLB (slightly) who has less upside than a possible replacement might at a lower cost to the team.

 

[Vader]

The Steelers have been in negotiations with Worilds for two years. There is no way he is going to take some $6 million a year contract. He has obviously turned them down more than once. So he wants pay$d.