Jason Worilds

[ark steel]

Worilds will test the market and be around the McPhee price range(8-9mill/year) and the Steelers will make a play for one of them. That price for them may seem high and it is, but they need to sign a starter in free agency. Moats will more than likely be back for a relatively cheap deal even if Worilds is signed. He could be an average stopgap if need be but will better serve as a top backup. I'm hoping Dupree falls to 22 even if they sign Worilds.

IMO 8m-9m/year is too high for either of those guys.

 

[Vader]

You mean like '04, when Cowher started the season with journeyman Maddox when Ben had outplayed him during camp? Or possibly Cowher's decision to force Troy Edwards into the lineup over Hines Ward? Point being "ALL" coaches make these type of mistakes even Lord William Laird Cowher.

I never said otherwise. However Ben was a rookie and even the players didn't want him inserted when Maddox was an experienced QB. Remember Faneca talking about it? Also Hines Ward started 14 games the year Edwards was drafted, 15 games the next year and 16 games the next year so again you have no idea what the **** you are talking about. See more than 1 WR can start in football. Cowher didn't even want to draft Edwards BTW.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I never said otherwise. However Ben was a rookie and even the players didn't want him inserted when Maddox was an experienced QB. Remember Faneca talking about it? Also Hines Ward started 14 games the year Edwards was drafted, 15 games the next year and 16 games the next year so again you have no idea what the **** you are talking about. See more than 1 WR can start in football. Cowher didn't even want to draft Edwards BTW.

So, you're saying that we should let the players (i.e. Faneca) make the decisions as to who plays or not; that's a good idea. Also, Cowher pushed Hines out of the starting flanker position so that Edwards could start in Hines' place. I did misstate because that happened in Edwards second year when they drafted Burress and gave him the starting sport at Split-End. Eventually they realized that Edwards was not good enough to handle the Flanker position on his own full-time, and they started rotating between Hines and Edwards. But the fact remains that they WANTED and TRIED to start the inferior player at the position over the superior player, and it was Cowher's call because he was the head coach.

Edit: of course that doesn't take into account the '02 season when they wanted Hines to move into the slot, again so that Edwards could take the Flanker position. That attempted move led to Hines cussing some people out during training camp and Edwards was traded to St. Louis.

 

[bermudasteel]

24/7 Sports reporting that the Steelers will let Worilds test the market and not make him an offer right away or tag him.

http://pit.247sports.com/Bolt/Report-Worilds-to-enter-free-agency-35868434

Well then...

 

[Vader]

So, you're saying that we should let the players (i.e. Faneca) make the decisions as to who plays or not; that's a good idea. Also, Cowher pushed Hines out of the starting flanker position so that Edwards could start in Hines' place. I did misstate because that happened in Edwards second year when they drafted Burress and gave him the starting sport at Split-End. Eventually they realized that Edwards was not good enough to handle the Flanker position on his own full-time, and they started rotating between Hines and Edwards. But the fact remains that they WANTED and TRIED to start the inferior player at the position over the superior player, and it was Cowher's call because he was the head coach.

Edit: of course that doesn't take into account the '02 season when they wanted Hines to move into the slot, again so that Edwards could take the Flanker position. That attempted move led to Hines cussing some people out during training camp and Edwards was traded to St. Louis.

I NEVER said players should make the decision. But you can't argue the points so you make **** up. No team wants to start a rookie if you don't have too. Is that too hard for you to understand?

Also moving around WRs is NOT that same as not having him start. They never took Ward off the field as Tomlin did by inserting Scott instead of using Starks. But keep trying.

Also Edwards wasn't in Pitt in 2002. So I don't know how they tried to move him when he wasn't even here.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I NEVER said players should make the decision. But you can't argue the points so you make **** up. No team wants to start a rookie if you don't have too. Is that too hard for you to understand?

Also moving around WRs is NOT that same as not having him start. They never took Ward off the field as Tomlin did by inserting Scott instead of using Starks. But keep trying.

Also Edwards wasn't in Pitt in 2002. So I don't know how they tried to move him when he wasn't even here.

1. Moving Troy from the spot that he had occupied and shined at and giving that spot to Edwards is demoting Hines in favor of Edwards. Maybe you should read some of Hines' quotes in that regard.

2. If the rookie is better than the incumbent, you start the rookie.

3. Edwards was in camp in 2002 and was traded after Ward went off about them trying to move him to the slot in order to put Edwards at Flanker.

The Steelers' up-and-down season started with a few downs for Ward. At training camp, he got into an animated on-field discussion with coach Bill Cowher after being moved to slot receiver to free up a spot for Troy Edwards, the result being an Edwards trade to St. Louis soon after and Ward's return to his customary wide-out role.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2002-12-28/sports/0212280201_1_steelers-ward-ravens

On a side note: "you mad bro?" because with all that cussing and stuff it sure seems like it. I mean you have, in the past, complained about the language and name calling that people use towards you. Yet, without provocation, you choose to curse at people. Seems a little hypocritical to me. But, if that's the only way you know how to express yourself, by all means carry on.

 

[Vader]

1. Moving Troy from the spot that he had occupied and shined at and giving that spot to Edwards is demoting Hines in favor of Edwards. Maybe you should read some of Hines' quotes in that regard.

2. If the rookie is better than the incumbent, you start the rookie.

3. Edwards was in camp in 2002 and was traded after Ward went off about them trying to move him to the slot in order to put Edwards at Flanker.



http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2002-12-28/sports/0212280201_1_steelers-ward-ravens

On a side note: "you mad bro?" because with all that cussing and stuff it sure seems like it. I mean you have, in the past, complained about the language and name calling that people use towards you. Yet, without provocation, you choose to curse at people. Seems a little hypocritical to me. But, if that's the only way you know how to express yourself, by all means carry on.

I haven't called you one name have I? You're just trying to get a rise out of me. I understand that. But that's just who you are.

1. Hines Ward was a 3rd round pick in 1998. Edwards was a 1st round pick in 1999. The idea that Ward was some long term SB winning player like Starks is just ignorant.

2. Ben was a rookie and had won 0 games. There is nobody that thought Ben was going to be as he turned out. Again Starks had won a SB as an OL. So again the comparison is ignorant.

3. Edwards was actually traded after their final pre-season game not in training camp. They left him unprotected when the Texans selected in March. Yes, Ward got pissed but they weren't going to keep him anyway. They moved Ward and Troy because they wanted to showcase Troy for other teams. So it had nothing to do with Ward. He was on his way out anyway.

 

[Xc944]

Atleast Troy Edwards had a good rookie year. More than you can say about many of Tomlins boys

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Atleast Troy Edwards had a good rookie year. More than you can say about many of Tomlins boys

and many of Cowher's too ... picks bust ... it happens.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I haven't called you one name have I? You're just trying to get a rise out of me. I understand that. But that's just who you are.

1. Hines Ward was a 3rd round pick in 1998. Edwards was a 1st round pick in 1999. The idea that Ward was some long term SB winning player like Starks is just ignorant.

2. Ben was a rookie and had won 0 games. There is nobody that thought Ben was going to be as he turned out. Again Starks had won a SB as an OL. So again the comparison is ignorant.

3. Edwards was actually traded after their final pre-season game not in training camp. They left him unprotected when the Texans selected in March. Yes, Ward got pissed but they weren't going to keep him anyway. They moved Ward and Troy because they wanted to showcase Troy for other teams. So it had nothing to do with Ward. He was on his way out anyway.

Wait a minute ... you use inflammatory language/cursing towards me (see post #226, #229, etc.) and I'm the one trying to get a rise out of someone? You can't be serious. No one can be that self-absorbed.

1. So, you're saying that because Starks played in a SB, he was more valuable to the team (at that time) than a younger Hines Ward, who had only led the team in receptions/yards, but had not played in a SB (during an earlier time). Seems Legit. Kemoeatu and Stapleton say "Hi" btw.

2. If they didn't think Ben was going to turn out to be a franchise QB, they wouldn't have drafted him. If they thought so highly of Starks, they wouldn't have tried so hard to get rid of him. So yes, I see two ignorant comparisons (Ward v. Starks, Ben v. Starks).

3. Dude, pre-season, training camp, the point was that he was with them in camp and traded. Your contention was that Edwards was not ever with the Steelers in 2002 (post #229). So, being with the team all through training camp and all the pre-season games does not constitute having been a member of the team at some point during 2002. Got it.

Sorry, I'm still flabbergasted that you could say that Max Freakin Starks was a more valuable commodity than a young Hines Ward or Ben Roethlisberger simply because he had played on a SB winning team. I mean, sure Starks should have been starting over Scott. But more valuable than a young Hines and a Young Ben. SMH ... Have a good evening.

 

[Vader]

Wait a minute ... you use inflammatory language/cursing towards me (see post #226, #229, etc.) and I'm the one trying to get a rise out of someone? You can't be serious. No one can be that self-absorbed.

1. So, you're saying that because Starks played in a SB, he was more valuable to the team (at that time) than a younger Hines Ward, who had only led the team in receptions/yards, but had not played in a SB (during an earlier time). Seems Legit. Kemoeatu and Stapleton say "Hi" btw.

2. If they didn't think Ben was going to turn out to be a franchise QB, they wouldn't have drafted him. If they thought so highly of Starks, they wouldn't have tried so hard to get rid of him. So yes, I see two ignorant comparisons (Ward v. Starks, Ben v. Starks).

3. Dude, pre-season, training camp, the point was that he was with them in camp and traded. Your contention was that Edwards was not ever with the Steelers in 2002 (post #229). So, being with the team all through training camp and all the pre-season games does not constitute having been a member of the team at some point during 2002. Got it.

Sorry, I'm still flabbergasted that you could say that Max Freakin Starks was a more valuable commodity than a young Hines Ward or Ben Roethlisberger simply because he had played on a SB winning team. I mean, sure Starks should have been starting over Scott. But more valuable than a young Hines and a Young Ben. SMH ... Have a good evening.

I didn't know cursing upset you so much. Again did I call you a name, yes or no? Talk about self absorbed. You were/are trying to get a rise out of me and charged me with name calling. When you got called out you now change it to "inflammatory language". Sorry you got called out and now you're changing it.

1. Ward was a 2nd year player when Troy was drafted. He had 246 yards rec. his rookie year. Edwards had 714 yards his rookie year. So in Ward's 2nd year he had less yards than a rookie in Edwards. You act as if Ward was some established WR. He was not. Again this entire discussion was about Starks and Scott. I'm sorry you can't see the difference between a starting OL that helped win a SB and a rookie that did almost nothing. Has nothing to do with Kemoeatu and Stapleton as I'm sure you know.

2. Talk about ignorant here we go again with you feigning ignorance again. It had nothing to do with them thinking Ben wasn't a franchise QB. I NEVER SAID THAT. Again you can't stick to the topic at hand. You can't argue the point so you have to change the debate. Nobody likes playing a rookie when you have a vet they can learn behind... NOBODY. Johnnie Manziel, EJ Manuel and 100s of other rookie QBs say "Hi" BTW. The FO thought very highly of Starks.. they even tagged him. The ignorant coach is the one who sat him in favor of a terrible Scott.

3. Don't care really. You said "Season" I thought you meant during the "Season".

You can be flabbergasted all you want. You're still mischaracterizing what I'm saying. Probably by design. I never said anything about Starks being a more valuable commodity than Ward of Ben. And you know that. But that's just how you are and I understand that now. I've clearly stated that Starks was better than Scott and should have started. Ben and Ward have nothing to do with that argument. You brought them up in totally difference contexts. Ben was a rookie QB coming out of a small school. I don't blame Cowher for not throwing him in there from day 1. Ward was not a great WR from day 1 and even had less yards in his 2nd year than Troy his rookie season. So I can't blame Cowher for trying to get as much as he could from a pick he didn't even want.

I know that you are just throwing things against the wall to see if anything sticks. It isn't going to work. You know none of those are comparing to Starks/ Scott. SMH....

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I didn't know cursing upset you so much. Again did I call you a name, yes or no? Talk about self absorbed. You were/are trying to get a rise out of me and charged me with name calling. When you got called out you now change it to "inflammatory language". Sorry you got called out and now you're changing it.

1. Ward was a 2nd year player when Troy was drafted. He had 246 yards rec. his rookie year. Edwards had 714 yards his rookie year. So in Ward's 2nd year he had less yards than a rookie in Edwards. You act as if Ward was some established WR. He was not. Again this entire discussion was about Starks and Scott. I'm sorry you can't see the difference between a starting OL that helped win a SB and a rookie that did almost nothing. Has nothing to do with Kemoeatu and Stapleton as I'm sure you know.

2. Talk about ignorant here we go again with you feigning ignorance again. It had nothing to do with them thinking Ben wasn't a franchise QB. I NEVER SAID THAT. Again you can't stick to the topic at hand. You can't argue the point so you have to change the debate. Nobody likes playing a rookie when you have a vet they can learn behind... NOBODY. Johnnie Manziel, EJ Manuel and 100s of other rookie QBs say "Hi" BTW. The FO thought very highly of Starks.. they even tagged him. The ignorant coach is the one who sat him in favor of a terrible Scott.

3. Don't care really. You said "Season" I thought you meant during the "Season".

You can be flabbergasted all you want. You're still mischaracterizing what I'm saying. Probably by design. I never said anything about Starks being a more valuable commodity than Ward of Ben. And you know that. But that's just how you are and I understand that now. I've clearly stated that Starks was better than Scott and should have started. Ben and Ward have nothing to do with that argument. You brought them up in totally difference contexts. Ben was a rookie QB coming out of a small school. I don't blame Cowher for not throwing him in there from day 1. Ward was not a great WR from day 1 and even had less yards in his 2nd year than Troy his rookie season. So I can't blame Cowher for trying to get as much as he could from a pick he didn't even want.

I know that you are just throwing things against the wall to see if anything sticks. It isn't going to work. You know none of those are comparing to Starks/ Scott. SMH....

You clearly have a reading comprehension problem. I charged you with cussing and name calling. Cussing in case you didn't realize is the same as cursing, and is "inflammatory language". So, no, your "calling me out" did not make me change anything. It simply made me point out what I had previously stated in order to explain something to someone who clearly didn't understand.

The rest of your argument is classic Vader. Anyone who knows your "debating" style can see that. I have no desire to go down the rabbit hole wherein you clearly contradict earlier statements and deny that you ever made them by stating "I NEVER SAID THAT" ... as if if capitalizing the statement makes it true. Word of advice, you should probably start remembering the things that you say. Because many times when you resort to the "I NEVER SAID THAT" tactic, you actually did and all you have to do is go up a few posts and re-read what you wrote.

In any event, big day today. So, here's to wishing you a good day also.

 

[Vader]

You clearly have a reading comprehension problem. I charged you with cussing and name calling. Cussing in case you didn't realize is the same as cursing, and is "inflammatory language". So, no, your "calling me out" did not make me change anything. It simply made me point out what I had previously stated in order to explain something to someone who clearly didn't understand.

The rest of your argument is classic Vader. Anyone who knows your "debating" style can see that. I have no desire to go down the rabbit hole wherein you clearly contradict earlier statements and deny that you ever made them by stating "I NEVER SAID THAT" ... as if if capitalizing the statement makes it true. Word of advice, you should probably start remembering the things that you say. Because many times when you resort to the "I NEVER SAID THAT" tactic, you actually did and all you have to do is go up a few posts and re-read what you wrote.

In any event, big day today. So, here's to wishing you a good day also.

Just in typical "buckeye" style you conjure up ways of saying things without really saying them. I have a comprehension problem? You even admit that you charged me with name calling. So please show me once where I did that. Just once will suffice. You can't so you lump the entire thing together to make it go away. I called you out and you'll evade as long as you can.

So again, show me where I said they didn't think Ben was a franchise QB. I'll call you out again. I know you have issues with the truth but please show me these things you say are true. Show me where I said that. Again you can't. You make remarks that are simply not true then hide behind "but you don't remember. Ok, let's say I forgot... so please show me. Show me where I said that. It should be easy. I'll wait....

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Sorry may man ... but as I also said .. I charged you with cursing AND name calling. So, while I can admit there was no actual "name calling" (although the inferences were there), do you still deny directing curse words at me? That my friend is "inflammatory language".
As for you "calling me out" ... on what? I mean this little discussion is not life or death. It's not gonna make me any money. It's not gonna feed my kids. If "calling me out" and being recognized for it as if you are some type of internet guru is that important to you then ... yeah Vader, you called me out. I'm over here shaking behind my keyboard .. feel better?

It's funny though that most everything you ascribe to myself and others as far as personality flaws are things that even the occasional visitor to this site can see are components of your personality.

As far as your thoughts on Ben ... go to post 231 ... it sure seems like you said nobody thought he was going to be what he turned out to be.

2. Ben was a rookie and had won 0 games. There is nobody that thought Ben was going to be as he turned out.

But please, don't "call me out again Vader" ... I've got a lot of work to finish up today and I can't do that if I'm over here Cowhering ... err I mean cowering behind my computer screen.

 

[FordFairLane]

I would not get Worilds 8-9 million a year. McPhee I would actually give less being an outside free agent and the fact former raven pass rushers have not lived up to the contract they sign elsewhere. I would much rather draft a pass rusher, bring back Harrison, and even bring in a cheap free agent or two to see if we can get a cheap patch on the pass rush. Tuck and Woodley are likely cut this year and I don't either gets much of a contract.

If we are going to spend 9 million on Worilds I would rather give Houston 15 million and actually get a playmaker on defense.

 

[ark steel]

I don't get the love for Graham or McPhee, but it may be that I misunderstand. Are people suggesting that either is worth $7m-$8m/year? Or just that they would rather pay either of them $5-6m/year than worilds that same amount.

I'm not convinced either of them are worth $7m+/year, although, I think, at least, one of them gets that much.

 

[SteelerAl]

I would rather give Houston 15 million and actually get a playmaker on defense.

Good ******* gracious, people, how many times does it need to said that this is not even an option for us. It's not an option for us to pay Houston $1 million per year, $15 million per year or $25 million per year. He is going to get the ******* franchise tag. He should never be mentioned on this board.

 

[ark steel]

I would not get Worilds 8-9 million a year. McPhee I would actually give less being an outside free agent and the fact former raven pass rushers have not lived up to the contract they sign elsewhere. I would much rather draft a pass rusher, bring back Harrison, and even bring in a cheap free agent or two to see if we can get a cheap patch on the pass rush. Tuck and Woodley are likely cut this year and I don't either gets much of a contract.

If we are going to spend 9 million on Worilds I would rather give Houston 15 million and actually get a playmaker on defense.

Kruger did better his second year than the first. Still not up to his contact value, but better.

 

[Vader]

Sorry may man ... but as I also said .. I charged you with cursing AND name calling. So, while I can admit there was no actual "name calling" (although the inferences were there), do you still deny directing curse words at me? That my friend is "inflammatory language".
As for you "calling me out" ... on what? I mean this little discussion is not life or death. It's not gonna make me any money. It's not gonna feed my kids. If "calling me out" and being recognized for it as if you are some type of internet guru is that important to you then ... yeah Vader, you called me out. I'm over here shaking behind my keyboard .. feel better?

It's funny though that most everything you ascribe to myself and others as far as personality flaws are things that even the occasional visitor to this site can see are components of your personality.

As far as your thoughts on Ben ... go to post 231 ... it sure seems like you said nobody thought he was going to be what he turned out to be.



But please, don't "call me out again Vader" ... I've got a lot of work to finish up today and I can't do that if I'm over here Cowhering ... err I mean cowering behind my computer screen.

Can you even read? Even in that statement I said his "rookie" year. That was the entire discussion. I'm sorry that you have comprehension problems. But you knew that. Nobody knew he was going to be as good as he was his rookie year. Now you're just being intentionally obtuse.

I never denied cursing at you. I said I never called you a name. You know that as well. But for some reason you felt ok saying it even though you knew it wasn't true. As far as your "internet guru" comments go I couldn't care less. I called you out on your wrong statements and you haven't shown me one statement where I said what you claimed. You don't know dick about my personality. So your ignorant insights on me are about as reliable as your memory on what I said.

What's funny is that for someone that puts so little clout on this discussion you sure are quick to type your responses. I bet if you used your internet psychological ability you could figure out why you do that?

 

[Litos]

Arthur Moats made 4 sacks in limited play time and also said he would like to stay. He can match what Worilds numbers for less than half the money
Keep him and Harrison, draft a rookie and let's roll the dice with that.

If we are going to get a good FA then it better be on a CB as there's way less chance to get an impact player from the draft in this position. Sign McCain plus a good CB and draft another on the 2nd or 3rd round, There you have it, that'd be my offseason plan (I know, I know, I´m just an armchair GM)

 

[SteelerAl]

Arthur Moats made 4 sacks in limited play time and also said he would like to stay. He can match what Worilds numbers for less than half the money
Keep him and Harrison, draft a rookie and let's roll the dice with that.

If we are going to get a good FA then it better be on a CB as there's way less chance to get an impact player from the draft in this position. Sign McCain plus a good CB and draft another on the 2nd or 3rd round, There you have it, that'd be my offseason plan (I know, I know, I´m just an armchair GM)

Not a bad plan at all, and one that the FO might be forced into if guys like Worilds, Graham, McPhee all end up making bank in the $8-$10 million range --- certainly possible given that there are plenty of teams sitting on craploads of cap space like the Jags and Raiders.

 

[LeXX75]

Can you even read? Even in that statement I said his "rookie" year. That was the entire discussion. I'm sorry that you have comprehension problems. But you knew that. Nobody knew he was going to be as good as he was his rookie year. Now you're just being intentionally obtuse.

I never denied cursing at you. I said I never called you a name. You know that as well. But for some reason you felt ok saying it even though you knew it wasn't true. As far as your "internet guru" comments go I couldn't care less. I called you out on your wrong statements and you haven't shown me one statement where I said what you claimed. You don't know dick about my personality. So your ignorant insights on me are about as reliable as your memory on what I said.

What's funny is that for someone that puts so little clout on this discussion you sure are quick to type your responses. I bet if you used your internet psychological ability you could figure out why you do that?

What exactly does this crap between the 2 of you have to do with freaking Jason Worilds? How bout you two have your little battle via PM ..

 

[stuntmanmike]

Man... Moats is a classic over achieving journeyman...he's a great guy.... But he's Not a starter for the Pittsburgh Steelers. If moats is the best they can do they should all quit before being fired.

 

[Vader]

What exactly does this crap between the 2 of you have to do with freaking Jason Worilds? How bout you two have your little battle via PM ..

Like almost every thread in here it went on a tangent. I have no problem stopping now. I've made my point. However, I'm sure you don't want me going around to every thread showing you where people took the original subject off topic. Not sure why you just picked us when it happens to almost every thread.

 

[Litos]

Man... Moats is a classic over achieving journeyman...he's a great guy.... But he's Not a starter for the Pittsburgh Steelers. If moats is the best they can do they should all quit before being fired.

would you prefer to invest on a OLB or CB during this specific offseason given the available FAs and the draft class?
there won't be any rookie CB that could start for the Steelers at 1.22, but you can't say the same about OLB.
Also keep in mind that players like McPhee (limited play time, limited production) will be getting more than 8 M a year offers.

Then tell me what would yo do with the limited cap space the team has