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Leaked Wonderlic scores of 2018 qb's

It amazes me that so many folks laud the team for their BPA approach to the draft and then get upset when they don't take a certain position (i.e. BPA "at a position of (perceived) need). Recent history at OLB has shown that the BPA at a position of need approach leads to some mediocre players.
 
You just choose to make stuff up....please post link regarding Colbert’s “love” for Rivers. KC said all the QBs at that time were very good football players, would help the team but wasn’t sure the top ones would fall to them.

Cowher on the other hand wanted Rivers if he dropped, as he (a NCSU alum) had access to all the coaches/assistants who were there during his 4 years. He let KC and Mr. Rooney know as well. Dulac, Bouchette Savran all detailed this at that time.

Cowher’s bubble bursted when Marty got Rivers through the Spanos save face action with Acorsi in NY. When Ben fell into their lap, Cowher didn’t even want to draft a QB, but Mr. Rooney stepped in and “recommended” to draft Ben.

KC is stone face polite when it comes to where they place individual players. Positions, that’s a different matter. He will constantly relay which position is deep or thin working up towards the draft. It’s been his MO since his Detroit days and learned it while at BLESTO.


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Like the time when you felt I made up the Tomlin saying he's a degenerate gambler and I put it back on your grill?

Colbert liked Rivers. He went to his pro day, and the usually tight-lipped Colbert described him as a very accurate.

2004 was a very good QB class. We were in an unusually high spot to draft a quarterback. If Rivers fell, I believe he would be a Steeler. It worked out just fine for us.
 
Dan Marino scored a 15. Johnny Manziel scored a 32. Kick Dan out of the H.O.F. and make room for Johnny!

Marino played in a different time. He was a pure passer type ( Jackson is the opposite ) and had once in a generation type of arm and release.

In the modern NFL, I have not seen one very good NFL Qb do well with a 16 or under.

Manziel had off the field issues and didn't even try.

But let's get back to the modern NFL, shall we?

Below is data from 4 years ago listing the wonderlic scores of ALL starting QB's for that season. Jackson's 13 is off the charts low. Bud Dupree had a 13...I think and the guy isn't very smart or aware on the field.


The Wonderlic isn't a very good predictor of how a player will do, but it is a decent judge of intelligence. I figure offseason, so why not look at who's got the smartest QBs.
Blaine Gabbert - 42
Alex Smith - 40
Eli Manning - 39
Matt Flynn - 38
Colin Kaepernick - 38
Matt Stafford - 38
Andrew Luck - 37
Tony Romo - 37
Sam Bradford - 36
Christian Ponder - 35
Aaron Rodgers - 35
Ryan Tannehill - 34
Tom Brady - 33
Matt Ryan - 32
Matt Schaub - 31
Phillip Rivers - 30
Andy Dalton - 29
Nick Foles - 29
Drew Brees - 28
Kevin Kolb/ EJ Manuel - 28
Peyton Manning - 28
Mark Sanchez - 28
Russell Wilson - 28
Joe Flacco - 27
Josh Freeman - 27
Brandon Weeden - 27
Jay Cutler - 26
Carson Palmer - 26
Ben Roethlisberger - 25
RGIII - 24
Cam Newton - 21
Jake Locker - 20

13???

I have read most teams want a 20 or higher, ideally 25 of higher. I urge you to take the test. I had to once and scored a 38, which I was told was upper level green. But take the test, and afterward tell me if you could imagine anyone scoring a 13
 
No mentions that they went down on the field to watch Jaire work out. Plenty of mentions that Tomlin and Fitchner went on the field to watch some QB throw. ;)

He was on the field to watch Alexander also. It was on Nfl Network
 
I believe a Wonderlic score of 20 is considered "average" intelligence.
 
It amazes me that so many folks laud the team for their BPA approach to the draft and then get upset when they don't take a certain position (i.e. BPA "at a position of (perceived) need). Recent history at OLB has shown that the BPA at a position of need approach leads to some mediocre players.



If you believe in BPA, you take a player regardless of what position he plays. At the very top of round one, I'll agree to a point, however by the end of round one where the Steelers usually pick, the grades between the players are close, so you are better off choosing a player with a grade of 6.4 that plays safety over say a player with 6.5 that plays Guard.

I say match value with need without reaching and try to pick a guy you think fits your schemes or can offer something different than what you have.
 
Im not saying that you couldnt get a great QB at 28, but I dont think there is anyway you would go we ARE getting that guy. With Ben saying he will play beyond the season why would you take a guy here. Defense. A very good player will fall to 28. Defense was the problem. Keep adding talent.
 
I believe a Wonderlic score of 20 is considered "average" intelligence.

Maybe so, but most people didn't go to college. If you graduated from college I'd guess 25-30 would be the norm.

Listed are a sample of median scores by profession on the Wonderlic test from 1983. The scores are listed in descending numerical order, and professions with the same score have been alphabetized. According to this Jackson if he didn't hit the genetic lottery would be suited for a Janitor. No way should the Steelers draft him in rounds 1-2.

Systems analyst*– 32
Chemist*– 31
Electrical engineer*– 30
Engineer*– 29
Programmer*– 29
Accountant*– 28
Executive*– 28
Reporter*– 28
Teacher*– 28
Copywriter*– 27
Investment analyst*– 27
Librarian*– 27
Electronics technician*– 26
Salesperson*– 25
Secretary*– 24
Dispatcher*– 23
Drafter*– 23
Electrician*– 23
Nurse*– 23
Bank teller*– 22
Cashier*– 21
Firefighter*– 21
Clerical worker*– 21
Machinist*– 21
Receptionist*– 21
Train conductor*– 21
Craftsman*– 18
Security guard*– 17
Welder*– 17
Warehouseman*– 15
Janitor*– 14
 
Like the time when you felt I made up the Tomlin saying he's a degenerate gambler and I put it back on your grill?

Colbert liked Rivers. He went to his pro day, and the usually tight-lipped Colbert described him as a very accurate.

2004 was a very good QB class. We were in an unusually high spot to draft a quarterback. If Rivers fell, I believe he would be a Steeler. It worked out just fine for us.

Hahahahahah!! Fiction can be fun!

You take a comment from Tomlin, or from anyone for that matter, and change it's intended meaning to something to fit your agenda......your standard MO. Your prose is old and boring.

Just like your walk back from "Colbert LOVED Rivers" to now.....Colbert liked Rivers. Keep proving your MO.

Of course the GM went to his Pro Day, they go to most all rated player Pro-Days. Its part of their JOB genius. Colbert described him as very accurate? Well considering he had one of the highest career completion percentage in the ACC, His Sr. year alone he was over 70%,,,,so tight lipped Colbert commented on something pretty friggin obvious.
 
Hahahahahah!! Fiction can be fun!

You take a comment from Tomlin, or from anyone for that matter, and change it's intended meaning to something to fit your agenda......your standard MO. Your prose is old and boring.

Just like your walk back from "Colbert LOVED Rivers" to now.....Colbert liked Rivers. Keep proving your MO.

Of course the GM went to his Pro Day, they go to most all rated player Pro-Days. Its part of their JOB genius. Colbert described him as very accurate? Well considering he had one of the highest career completion percentage in the ACC, His Sr. year alone he was over 70%,,,,so tight lipped Colbert commented on something pretty friggin obvious.

This can get real dull fast. Quick prove what some said many years ago, and if not easily found on the web it's not true!!!! I guess that's all you have.

I can play that game, except when you ask I usually show you proof. Recently example the degenerate gambler comment.

I know Colbert had good things to say about Rivers, scouted him heavily, went to his pro day, and called him very accurate.

Everyone knew we were taking a QB, unless you somehow thought Maddox would stay healthy and take the Steelers back to the super bowl

For now here's a web article I found. I'll see if any Colbert quotes can be found. But the onus of proof that Colbert did not want Rivers is on you.

1 )
The Steelers, who were much more interested in one of those quarterbacks than they were letting on, may have favored Phillip Rivers, who played at the same college as Bill Cowher, North Carolina State

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/165549-the-2004-draft-the-legend-of-ben-falls-to-pittsburgh


2 )
While the Steelers leaked the fact that they wanted to draft QB Philip Rivers, prior to the draft, the Steelers aren't disappointed at all. In fact, they get a player who could eventually be better than Rivers although he's not as experienced as Rivers is now.


http://www.markberger.com/games/steelers_2004_draft.htm
 
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Coach, those scores look about right. I went to the site and was thinking of taking it. There's also a site that had a practice/example test. Doesn't look to be too difficult but I have a Masters and a lot of other training in my tool belt.
 
This can get real dull fast. Quick prove what some said many years ago, and if not easily found on the web it's not true!!!! I guess that's all you have.

I can play that game, except when you ask I usually show you proof. Recently example the degenerate gambler comment.

I know Colbert had good things to say about Rivers, scouted him heavily, went to his pro day, and called him very accurate.

Everyone knew we were taking a QB, unless you somehow thought Maddox would stay healthy and take the Steelers back to the super bowl

For now here's a web article I found. I'll see if any Colbert quotes can be found. But the onus of proof that Colbert did not want Rivers is on you.

1 )

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/165549-the-2004-draft-the-legend-of-ben-falls-to-pittsburgh


2 )


http://www.markberger.com/games/steelers_2004_draft.htm

It's already dull since you have no substance to your posturing....

"Quick prove what some said many years ago" Prove what? What was said many years ago? Why can't you comment a coherent sentence on a statement?

Anything can be found on the web if its legitimate genius, and it can also be twisted/turned and fabricated even easier. You are just too ignorant to understand how to examine data/facts and use them with common sense.

There is no game genius.....what proof did you show. Tomlin a Degenerate Gambler?

Here is the link to the subject at hand as written by Dave Bryan at Steeler's Depot. I'd give you the actual press conference literary tract, but the Steelers website only keeps their retro press conferences for only the last few years.

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2009/04/steelers-monday-pre-draft-ota-press-conference/

The "degenerate gambler" comment was made by Tomlin during a pre-draft press conference with KC after winning the SB in 2009. They were picking at the bottom. There were many questions about the philosophy between the two when drafting. Tomlin answered numerous questions, he also commented he was a "draft junkie", enjoyed the process and was warmly engaging during the entire press conference. His comment about "degenerate gambler" was a coy response after all the questions the press corp was attempting with Tomlin and KC to NOT tip their hand at their focus strategy in the draft. If you had any common sense in your head you would have understood it when you heard/read it. But no, you take one comment in a 20 minute press conference and run with it like "look here! look here!! Tomlin says he is a degenerate gambler....he's not fit to be a coach or for whatever your dislike of the day for him was at that time. So spare us the "show proof" BS because, your proof is usually fabricated to augment some agenda you are promoting.

Keep backing tracking on the Colbert LOVES Rivers rant. It's hilarious. We know you love Rivers, probably wished Pitt had him instead of Ben. So you can fantasize your belief that you were right about something during a hypothetical conversation with TMC. Give it a rest. TMC has owned you on almost every topic you've ever tried to argue against.

In the 18 years KC has been in the Steelers organization, I have not heard/read him say one bad thing about ANY player to be drafted. I do know Colbert goes to almost all the Pro-Days of prospects they have projected in their draft preparations. Its either an interview at the Combine, a Pro-Day or a PItt visit. Sometimes both AND a visit before the draft. They even evaluate guys after the draft, have them come in just so they can have a record in their books for future reference. KC has done this since his hiring. He had positive things to say about every QB rated in the first round. Eli, Rivers, Ben as well as non-QB's Not sure about JP Losman, because I don't think he was even a 1st round consideration until Buffalo grabbed him. But please keep thinking KC only fixated on Rivers....you bring more humor to yourself when you do.

Everyone knew huh? BS....When Rivers and Eli went off the board, Cowher was then looking at drafting OL (Shawn Andrews?) but Mr. Rooney intervened and recommended getting Ben, as he always loathed he passed on Marino when he had the chance to have a franchise QB.

God in heaven......you are so inept. Where have I stated Colbert did not want Rivers? Where genius? There isn't any post from me that cites "Colbert did not want Rivers". He had him rated higher than Ben, But Rivers was gone when NY picked him, Everyone knew the trade was going to happen BEFORE Rivers was picked. So there was no accounting that he would even be available. At that point they were looking at Fitzgerald, DB or OL. I know Dunta Robinson was heavily picked in mocks here and by the writers, When Hall went, and then Robinson got picked at 10, OL was in the picture but Kiper and all the talking heads were then saying Ben. It came out later that Cowher wanted Andrews....but was vetoed to picking Ben.

Both of those articles you posted aren't even written by authentic press writers or beat writers for the Steelers. They are opinion pieces for their blogs. So don't think you are giving some astounding not known information from the organization. The only game you can play is idolizing yourself thinking you know more than the rest of us. You don't. Come to grips with it and you will be a better poster, and not the Board's clown.
 
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Coach, those scores look about right. I went to the site and was thinking of taking it. There's also a site that had a practice/example test. Doesn't look to be too difficult but I have a Masters and a lot of other training in my tool belt.
I took it for a job I applied for years ago, I have no college education and I scored 36, it's not really that hard.

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Dan Marino scored a 15. Johnny Manziel scored a 32. Kick Dan out of the H.O.F. and make room for Johnny!

Jim Kelly & Terry Bradshaw both scored a 13 IIRC. Kick the orchestrator of the K-Gun offense out as well as another guy who called all his own plays on the field and make room for Colin Kaepernick and Matt Leinart!
 
there's a big difference between the wonderlic now and decades ago. The position of QB has changed. QB used to have to be big, with a strong arm, able to take abuse and throw deep downfield. The defenses and the reads were not as complex. Also, you didn't have players training for the combine like today.

Now the QB position is much more cerebral with all of the offensive and defensive schemes. So being smart is more important that years ago. Also, with all the preparation for the combine, getting a low score on the wonderlic means you didn't prepare. You literally didn't do your homework.

For me it is a red flag, that 1, he may not be very smart and it will take longer to learn things, and 2, maybe he's not going to study as hard as he should.

One pattern we have seen over and over again with the star mobile QBs like Vick, Newton, RG3, Manziel, is that they don't think they have to learn anything to be successful. Or at least not for a few years. They do have enough athletic ability to make plays outside the offense and with ESPN busting a nut showing that great scramble play Vick had, it's tough for them to think they do have to learn.

It seems to dawn on them late in their careers when they haven't won **** and they start to lose a step. We even saw this with Big Ben to a lesser extent. So we have seen guys like Cunningham, McNair, and Vick play much better late in their careers. You can even put Elway in that category. He ran around like an ******* for half his career and only won once he learned to stay within the offense.
 
Meh, the wonderlic years ago was a joke most guys (and their coaches/trainers etc.) didn't prepare them for, and nowadays w/ analytics being so prevalent, they make sure they prepare them as it's so damn important, apparently.

And Vick, McNair, Cunningham & Elway played so much better later into their careers? That's nonsense. Vick regressed, Cunningham & McNair never did anything much different & Elway finally got some weapons around him. That's what changed IMO.
 
Meh, the wonderlic years ago was a joke most guys (and their coaches/trainers etc.) didn't prepare them for, and nowadays w/ analytics being so prevalent, they make sure they prepare them as it's so damn important, apparently.

And Vick, McNair, Cunningham & Elway played so much better later into their careers? That's nonsense. Vick regressed, Cunningham & McNair never did anything much different & Elway finally got some weapons around him. That's what changed IMO.

McNair was a pocket passer at the end of his career. Did you miss the Raven years?
 
Now the QB position is much more cerebral with all of the offensive and defensive schemes. So being smart is more important that years ago. Also, with all the preparation for the combine, getting a low score on the wonderlic means you didn't prepare. You literally didn't do your homework.

For me it is a red flag, that 1, he may not be very smart and it will take longer to learn things, and 2, maybe he's not going to study as hard as he should.

I agree Tape. He also doesn't have an agent and while some people see that as a plus, for a rookie it is a huge gamble as the agent would help make sure he's prepared and able to navigate through a very complex process.

Jackson has apparently been hard to get hold of for some teams. That's another huge flag.

If he keeps going like this he'll drop into the third round. He needs to run the 40. He needs to do the workouts and separate himself from Rudolph and the rest of the next 5-8 QBs after the top 4.

It's almost like he has something to hide. I think he's getting some very bad advice.
 
Meh, the wonderlic years ago was a joke most guys (and their coaches/trainers etc.) didn't prepare them for, and nowadays w/ analytics being so prevalent, they make sure they prepare them as it's so damn important, apparently.

And Vick, McNair, Cunningham & Elway played so much better later into their careers? That's nonsense. Vick regressed, Cunningham & McNair never did anything much different & Elway finally got some weapons around him. That's what changed IMO.

Vick had a great season under Chip Kelly in Philly. It was after he got out of jail and it was the first time in his career that he bought into a system and didn’t just try to run after his first read was covered. I remember hearing him in interviews talking about hiw he wished he could have learned earlier in his career.

Cunningham ended his career with the Vikes playing at an MVP level. They nearly made the Super Bowl and had a record setting offensive season.

Elway had more INT than TD until late in his career when Shanahan took over. It wasn’t that he had better weapons, it was that he drastically cut down on his turnovers and mistakes. He learned to play within the offense instead of running around.

You could throw Steve Young in there too. He was pretty bad with Tampa. Yeah, he didn’t have much to work with but still, he would take off running at the drop of a hat. Even with the 49ers, he played like that when he would fill in for Montana. It took years for Young to learn to play from the pocket.

The point is that these running college QBs have a long history of taking years to develop because they are often able to still make enough big plays to win a bunch of games. They just can’t win it all because they eventually face a playoff defense that forces them to play from the pocket. That’s what happened to Cam Newton vs the Broncos.

For me there are only 2 scenarios where i would spend a high pick on a running QB.

1. You have a starter and plan to have about 3 years to develop the young QB.
2. The running QB has stressed in meetings that he knows he has to play from the pocket and is eager to learn. I would still be skeptical and he’d have to be pretty convincing.
 
Vick had a great season under Chip Kelly in Philly. It was after he got out of jail and it was the first time in his career that he bought into a system and didn’t just try to run after his first read was covered. I remember hearing him in interviews talking about hiw he wished he could have learned earlier in his career.

Cunningham ended his career with the Vikes playing at an MVP level. They nearly made the Super Bowl and had a record setting offensive season.

Elway had more INT than TD until late in his career when Shanahan took over. It wasn’t that he had better weapons, it was that he drastically cut down on his turnovers and mistakes. He learned to play within the offense instead of running around.

You could throw Steve Young in there too. He was pretty bad with Tampa. Yeah, he didn’t have much to work with but still, he would take off running at the drop of a hat. Even with the 49ers, he played like that when he would fill in for Montana. It took years for Young to learn to play from the pocket.

The point is that these running college QBs have a long history of taking years to develop because they are often able to still make enough big plays to win a bunch of games. They just can’t win it all because they eventually face a playoff defense that forces them to play from the pocket. That’s what happened to Cam Newton vs the Broncos.

For me there are only 2 scenarios where i would spend a high pick on a running QB.

1. You have a starter and plan to have about 3 years to develop the young QB.
2. The running QB has stressed in meetings that he knows he has to play from the pocket and is eager to learn. I would still be skeptical and he’d have to be pretty convincing.

Right. Vick, I think scored a 21. Bright enough, it was his off the field habits that cost him. A 13 was close to Stewart.
 
McNair was a pocket passer at the end of his career. Did you miss the Raven years?

I should've worded that post differently. I mean in terms of McNair not regressing after his physical skills diminished, he did not change in his efficiency as an NFL level QB. In fact, and to your point, he became more of a cerebral pocket passer and was still effective.
 
Vick had a great season under Chip Kelly in Philly. It was after he got out of jail and it was the first time in his career that he bought into a system and didn’t just try to run after his first read was covered. I remember hearing him in interviews talking about hiw he wished he could have learned earlier in his career.

Cunningham ended his career with the Vikes playing at an MVP level. They nearly made the Super Bowl and had a record setting offensive season.

Elway had more INT than TD until late in his career when Shanahan took over. It wasn’t that he had better weapons, it was that he drastically cut down on his turnovers and mistakes. He learned to play within the offense instead of running around.

You could throw Steve Young in there too. He was pretty bad with Tampa. Yeah, he didn’t have much to work with but still, he would take off running at the drop of a hat. Even with the 49ers, he played like that when he would fill in for Montana. It took years for Young to learn to play from the pocket.

The point is that these running college QBs have a long history of taking years to develop because they are often able to still make enough big plays to win a bunch of games. They just can’t win it all because they eventually face a playoff defense that forces them to play from the pocket. That’s what happened to Cam Newton vs the Broncos.

For me there are only 2 scenarios where i would spend a high pick on a running QB.

1. You have a starter and plan to have about 3 years to develop the young QB.
2. The running QB has stressed in meetings that he knows he has to play from the pocket and is eager to learn. I would still be skeptical and he’d have to be pretty convincing.

Excellent points, noted.
 
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