Michigan Being Investigate for Pats-like Spying and Sign Stealing

[madinsomniac]

This is the most overblown “scandal” in recent sports history. I mean schools can basically pay players to transfer. Sure, they call it NIL, but everyone knows what it is.

Yet somehow, this is the type of thing that upsets people. You can steal players, but sign stealing is where we draw the line. Gimme a break.

The absolute totally ridiculous thing is that this doesn’t even need to be a thing anymore because we have tge technology to mike up every player with an encrypted radio speaker so they can simply tell all the players the call at once. They can even shut the signal off before the play.

It takes way more effort to hack it…than to just watch hand signals

The only reason why it is not done is because both the NFL and college have rules against it with no logical reasoning behind it…

 

[Sarge]

It’s not the schools paying them.

Sure it’s not.

 

[Sarge]

Sign stealing isn't allowed so that would signal an unfair advantage. For it to be fair all schools would have to be doing it.

There is no rule against sign stealing specifically. It’s unethical, sure, but to my knowledge it not illegal in the NCAA. What’s illegal is sending scouts to scout opponents before you play them. During the game, you can steal signs all day long. That’s why teams have three guys next to each other all signaling at the same time. Penn State is a great example of this.

As said above, if the NCAA would step out of the dark ages and use radio communications this could be eliminated.

 

[Troglodyte]

Sure it’s not.

If schools could pay players, the top teams in the country, with the exception of Michigan, Notre Dame, USC, Texas etc., wouldn’t be able to compete. Ole Miss and Alabama would be one win teams instead of one loss teams

 

[warriors42]

my biggest problem with this entire situation is the punishment before the crime was solved, and they did it in a manner that U of M couldn't even "post bail".

It was chicken **** to wait until the courts were not open to allow U of M to obtain a TRO. this was nothing more than appeasing those teams that were screaming the loudest. If it was PROVEN that Harbaugh and his coaching staff were in fact guilty and had an unfair advantage then lay out the punishment but convicting them before the case is over is unfair and total bullshit. If they lose one of these next three games and miss the playoffs then find out that it was in fact not true, well you can't get those games back.

Just like a turnover in the nfl, you let the play go than go gather the evidence before you rule. how do we like those apology letters when it comes to our steelers, they don't mean jack **** if it cost you the game.

 

[warriors42]

and what if that 16 year old bought mom and dad a new car? Then the parents said they just figured he saved up money from his paper route, they had no idea their kid was doing anything illegal.

sorry tape but I think this is a stretch. but let me ask you this, would you just come take my car without a full and complete investigation? maybe he had a social media following for the awsome way he delivered those papers and made the car money off that'

That's why Harbaugh is on the hook. He directly benefitted from this. There is video footage of Stallions on the Mich sideline with laminated diagrams of the opponents had signals, then him talking to the defensive coordinator and the DC then immediately signals in a new play.

so without a complete investigation we can prove he and the team benefited. law 101 it's not what you think you know it's what you can PROVE. At this point do we have proof that those laminated signs are not Michigans or were obtained illegally?

They also have the venmo records of Stallions paying for the tickets at away games and testimony of people admitting they were paid to film the signals. It does appear that multiple teams have complained about this for some time and have been gathering evidence of it.

are they sworn testimony in front of a board of inquiry or just hearsay at this point. has the evidence that these schools have gathered been presented to Michigan in front of a board of Inquiry?

Is there a smoking gun email trail directly to Harbaugh? Probably not, but it just seems impossible to think he had no idea this was happening. That at no point did Harbaugh ask why his coordinators listen to some low level staffer and adjust their plays based on his suggestions.

Michigan fans should be happy about this suspension. In reality, it has almost no impact. Harbaugh can still coach this team, he just can't be on the sideline for the game.

again it's not what you think it's what you can prove. if people were prosecuted for what others thought they did there would be a lot more Donald Trumps in the courthouse.

My point in all of this is that they should have let the process play out, and if found guilty lay down the punishment at that time.

 

[Sarge]

If schools could pay players, the top teams in the country, with the exception of Michigan, Notre Dame, USC, Texas etc., wouldn’t be able to compete. Ole Miss and Alabama would be one win teams instead of one loss teams

Give me a break. You think Alabama wouldn’t be able to compete? They have a winning reputation that isn’t going anywhere. You know, Saban and all those national titles. You’re incredibly naive if you think schools and boosters aren’t paying players. NIL is just the perfect cover. Kids like the money. They don’t care where it comes from.

 

[GBpack]

That Michigan OSU game in 2 weeks is going to be awesome!

 

[SteelerFan448]

Give me a break. You think Alabama wouldn’t be able to compete? They have a winning reputation that isn’t going anywhere. You know, Saban and all those national titles. You’re incredibly naive if you think schools and boosters aren’t paying players. NIL is just the perfect cover. Kids like the money. They don’t care where it comes from.

There were rumors Alabama offered Drake Maye a ton of money to transfer. NIL isn't being followed as intended and it's pay-to-play with boosters paying the players. Alabama and a ton of SEC schools would still be going all-in on football. USC pays players and they still have three losses.

 

[Troglodyte]

Give me a break. You think Alabama wouldn’t be able to compete? They have a winning reputation that isn’t going anywhere. You know, Saban and all those national titles. You’re incredibly naive if you think schools and boosters aren’t paying players. NIL is just the perfect cover. Kids like the money. They don’t care where it comes from.

You’re contradicting yourself. Alabama can attract players because of their success and NFL players, not because of the University’s endowment. All schools have wealthy alumni boosters, some have a lot more than others. You really think Alabama has as many very wealthy alumni as Stanford, Michigan or Harvard?

 

[Sarge]

You’re contradicting yourself. Alabama can attract players because of their success and NFL players, not because of the University’s endowment. All schools have wealthy alumni boosters, some have a lot more than others. You really think Alabama has as many very wealthy alumni as Stanford, Michigan or Harvard?

I’m not contradicting myself at all. You said that if schools were paying players, Alabama wouldn’t be able to compete. I said they would because of Saban and the national titles. They don’t have to pay players to transfer to Alabama because they win so their endowment or number of wealthy boosters compared to others doesn’t matter. They’ll get the best players because performing well at Alabama is an almost guaranteed ticket to the NFL. It’s not a hard concept to understand.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

sorry tape but I think this is a stretch. but let me ask you this, would you just come take my car without a full and complete investigation? maybe he had a social media following for the awsome way he delivered those papers and made the car money off that'

so without a complete investigation we can prove he and the team benefited. law 101 it's not what you think you know it's what you can PROVE. At this point do we have proof that those laminated signs are not Michigans or were obtained illegally?

are they sworn testimony in front of a board of inquiry or just hearsay at this point. has the evidence that these schools have gathered been presented to Michigan in front of a board of Inquiry?

again it's not what you think it's what you can prove. if people were prosecuted for what others thought they did there would be a lot more Donald Trumps in the courthouse.

My point in all of this is that they should have let the process play out, and if found guilty lay down the punishment at that time.

you do realize this was a sports punishment and Harbaugh is not actually in jail, right? I'm just pointing out that there is enough evidence just in public view to justify a punishment. Certainly this toothless punishment.

besides Harbaugh and Michigan weren't about due process when they demanded several Michigan State players be suspended immediately for that tunnel fight a few years ago.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

I’m not contradicting myself at all. You said that if schools were paying players, Alabama wouldn’t be able to compete. I said they would because of Saban and the national titles. They don’t have to pay players to transfer to Alabama because they win so their endowment or number of wealthy boosters compared to others doesn’t matter. They’ll get the best players because performing well at Alabama is an almost guaranteed ticket to the NFL. It’s not a hard concept to understand.

That can go away quickly. Look at Clemson.

Fact is, if this does become purely about money, the southern schools are at a disadvantage. Or at least, they no longer hold the cash advantage they've had for years. I do think talent will start to spread out more evenly in the coming years.

 

[warriors42]

you do realize this was a sports punishment and Harbaugh is not actually in jail, right? I'm just pointing out that there is enough evidence just in public view to justify a punishment. Certainly this toothless punishment.

besides Harbaugh and Michigan weren't about due process when they demanded several Michigan State players be suspended immediately for that tunnel fight a few years ago.

so just because he isn't in jail and it's a sports punishment it's OK to punish ANYONE without due process or just because the public is calling for it.

as far as MI state is concerned that was assault that caused physical injury to someone that was not only caught on camera but there were witnesses to the fact, and if memory serves me there was a full and complete investigation before Punishment was leveled on those players, and I don't recall their coach being suspended for the actions of his players either.

This action was nothing more than a first year commissioner who was swayed by other people and was trying to make a statement and show who the new boss in town was.
If the NCAA found no issue with Harbaugh who the hell is Petitti to decide otherwise without an investigation. I hope MI sticks this right up the *** of the big ten.

To be fair I really don't care if it was MI, AL, GA, OSU or any other college, this type of action is bullshit and sets a bad precedent going forward.

 

[Confluence]

I don't really know what is "fair" in a situation like this.

I am fairly certain that many care much less if Michigan is 6-3 at this point, but that is not the case this year.

Most importantly, I cannot conceive of any way that Harbage is a victim here. He is not innocent or cooperative and he was supposed to have been in charge. This is how karma works sometimes. Any advantage that MI received was felt on the field of play; this "quick justice" may have a similar lever.

 

[madinsomniac]

so just because he isn't in jail and it's a sports punishment it's OK to punish ANYONE without due process or just because the public is calling for it.

as far as MI state is concerned that was assault that caused physical injury to someone that was not only caught on camera but there were witnesses to the fact, and if memory serves me there was a full and complete investigation before Punishment was leveled on those players, and I don't recall their coach being suspended for the actions of his players either.

This action was nothing more than a first year commissioner who was swayed by other people and was trying to make a statement and show who the new boss in town was.
If the NCAA found no issue with Harbaugh who the hell is Petitti to decide otherwise without an investigation. I hope MI sticks this right up the *** of the big ten.

To be fair I really don't care if it was MI, AL, GA, OSU or any other college, this type of action is bullshit and sets a bad precedent going forward.

Nah the Big ten had every right to do this and really it isn’t even in dispute outside of michigan and its fanbase…

The guy doing the sign stealing basically admitted he was sending friends to get them in person. This is explicitly forbidden. He resigned from tge program and then said that Harbaugh had no idea how he was getting the signs, an admission of guilt trying to defend the program…

The thing is the head coach doesn’t have to know to be held accountable… the NCAA always drags its feet, but there is a large amount of evidence and the guy doing it basically admitted he did. The big ten did not have to wait to punish him. If they concluded the program did it, then he certainly can get a slap on the wrist.

Like id be on board with this bitching about it if there was a reasonable doubt about it happening… but from what I understand, there really isn’t… it 100% happened… the NCAA will dig into all the witnesses and stuff to try to see if there was knowledge from anyone higher up in the coaching staff and then maybe hand down a bigger punishment if there was, but the big ten definitely can give him his slap on the wrist


And as for michigan supposedly contemplating leaving the Big ten… that is just petty immaturity… they would lose a boatload of money and rivals and look like giant *******, especially if this gets directly tied to Harbaugh…


And the thing is the Big Ten is trying to hold off further NCAA punishment with what is really a minor punishment… Michigan has a shot at a National Title… the Big Ten doesn’t want the NCAA vacating it or a bunch of wins after the fact… so giving Harbaugh what amounts to an adult time out might sway them enough to say that tgey were already punished enough…

 

[SteelerFan448]

You’re contradicting yourself. Alabama can attract players because of their success and NFL players, not because of the University’s endowment. All schools have wealthy alumni boosters, some have a lot more than others. You really think Alabama has as many very wealthy alumni as Stanford, Michigan or Harvard?

A dime of the university’s endowment is not going to be used to pay players. If it becomes legal to pay players (it sort of is already), it’ll be from the TV money. Right now boosters are already paying players and the SEC seems to be doing just fine.

 

[black and gold apex]

Hairbaugh suspended twice this year and once a few years ago and no one believes any of this happened. Really. Until the NCAA starts suspending teams from bowl games the cheating will continue no matter what team is looked at.

 

[GBpack]

Go Blue!!

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Pretty incriminating stuff the NCAA sent to the B1G that led to Harbaugh/UM dropping their injunction request. Also led UM to fire their LBs Coach.

https://www.maizenbrew.com/2023/11/...VTvJKoIi40sHZk__8SQqsebFGNnUhEfpan5LgpYgkXZ_w

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

I was listening to somebody comment on this last week when Michigan was threatening lawsuits and their fanbase was up in arms, acting like they are being treated unfairly. The person predicted Michigan would back down quickly because this time the NCAA has the goods. They did this. Any kind of lawsuit just leads to discovery and even more of the cheating being exposed.

If they can prove all of this stuff, and it appears that they can, then Michigan needs wins vacated and a bowl ban. Anything other than that and you have basically sent the message that cheating like this is OK. If you get caught, your coach just can't be on the sideline but can still carry out all other coaching duties. And i'd bet for most teams that suspension would be early in the season vs East Salami Tech.

But Harbaugh had no idea any of this was happening.... How dare you even suggest such a thing.

 

[Drink IRON City]

I was listening to somebody comment on this last week when Michigan was threatening lawsuits and their fanbase was up in arms, acting like they are being treated unfairly. The person predicted Michigan would back down quickly because this time the NCAA has the goods. They did this. Any kind of lawsuit just leads to discovery and even more of the cheating being exposed.

If they can prove all of this stuff, and it appears that they can, then Michigan needs wins vacated and a bowl ban. Anything other than that and you have basically sent the message that cheating like this is OK. If you get caught, your coach just can't be on the sideline but can still carry out all other coaching duties. And i'd bet for most teams that suspension would be early in the season vs East Salami Tech.

But Harbaugh had no idea any of this was happening.... How dare you even suggest such a thing.

Similar to billicheat not knowing the balls were deflated, but Payton having full knowledge of the bounty gate.


Salute the nation

 

[Omar10213245]

Go Blue!!

Screw blue

 

[GBpack]

Similar to billicheat not knowing the balls were deflated, but Payton having full knowledge of the bounty gate.


Salute the nation

I think the Big 10 hates Michigan and they don’t want to see them win it. I would love it if Michigan takes home the title. OSU sucks!

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I think the Big 10 hates Michigan and they don’t want to see them win it. I would love it if Michigan takes home the title. OSU sucks!

You're normally very rational. But this take? Not so much. The B1G hates ttun? Makes no sense. That team, along with tOSU and PSU bring in most of the league's money. One thing these super leagues aren't going to do unless forced to is to alienate their breadwinners. And, if ttun were to win a Natty, it only brings more prestige and more $$$ to the B1G. |
Some UM fans are getting a little (a lot) defensive and paranoid about the cheating that definitely went on in that program. Rich Eisen was damn near crying on his show yesterday. smh, it's as bad as Pats**** fans.
GO BUCKS!!!