Noooooo (Tomlin 2 year extension)

[SteelBuckeye]

Wait, his job was to build us into perennial winners? I thought that he had that job done for him .... wait for it ... "with Cowher's players". And as far as the O-Line goes, it was broken when he got here. The OL STARTERS for 2007 (i.e. what he inherited from Cowher and/or was given to work with by Colbert)

LT Marvel Smith (Bad back meant he was gone by 2008)
LG Alan Faneca* (Management/Salary Cap decision meant he was gone by 2008)
C Sean Mahan (SEAN FREAKING MAHAN ... 'Nuff said)
RG Kendall Simmons (Diabetes made him a liability at this time)
RT Willie Colon (Was considered one of the best RT at the time by some ... though not many in SN, where he as projected as a guard)

That line right there was broken when he got here. And by the next year, 4 out of 5 of those guys were done for. Now, did he adequately fix the line in a reasonable amount of time? Nope, can't argue with that. But the idea that he was handed a stable, top 10 line and somehow managed to screw it up is ludicrous, ridiculous and a flat out lie.

As for the defense, it got OLD. So yeah, it collapsed. Those drafts you mention. That's definitely on him and Colbert and hitting on some of those players "might" have reduced the impact of that great defense getting old. But, here's the thing, you del, keep saying "HE" ... when the appropriate term is "THEY" as in Tomlin and Colbert.

"Maybe he's been holding Roethlisberger back from this type of success for years"? Damn, if that's not just pure speculation without anything to back it up. Like I said earlier. it's just "another generic and ambiguous way to throw directionless/scattershot criticism at a guy you don't like."

Maybe you should ask Ben why he was 32 years old before he had his best season ever. He won't admit it, but I'm sure that a good portion of that had to do with his own early inadequacies ... like holding onto the ball too long, refusing to take the checkdown, etc. Another part would have to do with the weapons that surrounded him.

 

[Punxsutawney]

Let's not be all revisionist here. After the 2000 season, the 3rd without the playoffs, people wanted Cowher gone, too. For much the same reason. He wasn't replacing the talent.

He wasn't?

You may want to take another look at those drafts during the Steelers' 1998-2000 down period. There were some misses at the top, but that was largely due to disagreement between the HC and GM, with Edwards over Kearse being the most prominent example.

 

[deljzc]

As I said, this year will finally show what innovations MT brings to the defense. Aside from drafting square pegs for Lebeau to use in his defensive scheme, Mike now has his 'style' players to work with on a new defensive scheme controlled by Butler whom Tomlin worked under at Memphis and Ark.St. in the past. This will be the year we see what kind of defense he prefers to run. Our schedule won't make it easy on them either. Hope for the best.

As del and others have said, Tomlin's greatest asset may be his lack of insecurity when it comes to having former Head Coaches and Butler (whom he started out working for as a Grad.Asst.) on his staff.

One of the best attributes of a good manager is when they are not afraid to hire people who might even be better than themselves in order to have the best 'team' possible.

We've been saying "This is the year" about Tomlin for a while now.

I'm tired of kicking that can down the road. He's had eight seasons here. We know what he is. You're kidding yourself if you think some "new" Tomlin is going to emerge now that Lebeau is gone. He's not changing now.

Changes to the defense, while under Lebeau, have been happening for a while. Just because the media is just now catching up to it shows their stupidity and quest for a headline. They've been playing more Cover-2 and Cover-4 stuff for years. And the reason they've grown soft and conservative in the secondary has a lot more to do with the failures up front and their lack of pressure and surprise than any philosophical change by Tomlin.

Tomlin's scared shitless that if we blitz and pressure more this secondary can't hold up against anyone for 2.5 seconds in aggressive coverage. So he'd rather die by a thousand cuts than give up stuff over the top. And that issue in on his shoulders and no one else's.

 

[deljzc]

Wait, his job was to build us into perennial winners? I thought that he had that job done for him .... wait for it ... "with Cowher's players". And as far as the O-Line goes, it was broken when he got here. The OL STARTERS for 2007 (i.e. what he inherited from Cowher and/or was given to work with by Colbert)

LT Marvel Smith (Bad back meant he was gone by 2008)
LG Alan Faneca* (Management/Salary Cap decision meant he was gone by 2008)
C Sean Mahan (SEAN FREAKING MAHAN ... 'Nuff said)
RG Kendall Simmons (Diabetes made him a liability at this time)
RT Willie Colon (Was considered one of the best RT at the time by some ... though not many in SN, where he as projected as a guard)

That line right there was broken when he got here. And by the next year, 4 out of 5 of those guys were done for. Now, did he adequately fix the line in a reasonable amount of time? Nope, can't argue with that. But the idea that he was handed a stable, top 10 line and somehow managed to screw it up is ludicrous, ridiculous and a flat out lie.

As for the defense, it got OLD. So yeah, it collapsed. Those drafts you mention. That's definitely on him and Colbert and hitting on some of those players "might" have reduced the impact of that great defense getting old. But, here's the thing, you del, keep saying "HE" ... when the appropriate term is "THEY" as in Tomlin and Colbert.

"Maybe he's been holding Roethlisberger back from this type of success for years"? Damn, if that's not just pure speculation without anything to back it up. Like I said earlier. it's just "another generic and ambiguous way to throw directionless/scattershot criticism at a guy you don't like."

Maybe you should ask Ben why he was 32 years old before he had his best season ever. He won't admit it, but I'm sure that a good portion of that had to do with his own early inadequacies ... like holding onto the ball too long, refusing to take the checkdown, etc. Another part would have to do with the weapons that surrounded him.

What?

Sean Mahan was a hand-picked Tomlin free agent. He was with him in Tampa Bay. Who was the head coach again when it was decided to let Faneca go and instead give the money to Kendall Simmons? Who was the head coach when they decided to pay Max Starks $22 million+ for three years of ****** service? Who was the head coach that decided Colon was a tackle when the minute he walked out the door (due to poor play) he instantly became ONLY a guard to other coaching staffs around the league? Who was the head coach that decided Kemoeatu was a starter worth a 5-year deal at $4 million/season? Who was the head coach that went into a season thinking Jonathon Scott was a capable starting left tackle?

And all the while, who was the head coach that endorsed a vertical offensive philosophy that made our quarterback hold onto the ball and look deep first?

You really want to blame that era of ineptitude up front on Cowher? Really?

 

[deljzc]

As I said, this year will finally show what innovations MT brings to the defense. Aside from drafting square pegs for Lebeau to use in his defensive scheme, Mike now has his 'style' players to work with on a new defensive scheme controlled by Butler whom Tomlin worked under at Memphis and Ark.St. in the past. This will be the year we see what kind of defense he prefers to run. Our schedule won't make it easy on them either. Hope for the best.

As del and others have said, Tomlin's greatest asset may be his lack of insecurity when it comes to having former Head Coaches and Butler (whom he started out working for as a Grad.Asst.) on his staff.

One of the best attributes of a good manager is when they are not afraid to hire people who might even be better than themselves in order to have the best 'team' possible.

Thank god we have a coach who's greatest asset is knowing how stupid he is and not doing much. That's certainly worth top-5 coaching money!

 

[stillwright]

Yeah... getting into the playoffs as an 8-8 team would be SUCH an achievement. Stop the presses.

And I'm more concerned about the adversity of team building and roster management during the prime Roethlisberger years. Again, his job was to build us into a perennial winner. Missing the playoffs 3 times and going one-and-done 3 other times the last 7 seasons isn't getting it done in my opinion.

You can make all the excuses you want, but he was a main part of TWO full draft classes (2008-2009) not ever seeing a 2nd contract in a Steelers uniform. He was part of a broken offensive line that continually exposed Reothlisberger to injuries that derailed seasons come December/January (2011). And now he's in charge of a collapse in defensive pressure on opposing quarterback we have to go back to 1989 and 1990 to find a 2-year stretch as bad as what we are currently in. And this despite the fact he's invested TONS of draft resources into the defensive front-7.

We keep wanting to praise him for the "new offense" but maybe he's been holding Roethlisberger back from this type of success for YEARS due to his failures. Hanging on to Arians and the terrible offensive line contracts from 2007-2010 come to mind as reasons he should have been in charge of.

Why did we have to wait until Roethlisberger was 32 years old for him to have his best season ever?

Sometimes it takes a few seasons for players to jell around a new OC. To believe in the system. For Ben to believe in it after he had free reign to do what he wanted to under his previous OC. Early in Ben's career the coaches managed him. Mid career they left him do as he pleased. This with a horrible OL, but being a young athletic QB he was able to over come this and go to 2 more SB's. Now(present-later stages of his career) Ben had to bye into his new OC system. So you ask why? Well the short answer is .....it is Tomlin's fault.

 

[Wingman]

I will say this for MT he is looking better now than when he first arrived. The last couple of drafts look like more good players have been selected than WTF were they thinking types and the team looks like it has been getting better. The drafts that had players getting cut or lost before the entire class could get a second contract seem to have gone. There are still the occasional WTF guys like the Jones boys, Laundry and Jarvis, Dri Archer otherwise known as walking small, but there have also been selections like Bell, Brown, Tuitt, McCullers, Dupre, Chickilio, Bryant, and some others you could look at and say they will contribute to the team in a positive manner.

I think he is over rated by many on here but he is showing improvement in his job performance as time goes by. In reality a guy that continues to get better will eventually get to the top provided he continues doing what is needed to keep improving.

 

[stillwright]

What?

Sean Mahan was a hand-picked Tomlin free agent. He was with him in Tampa Bay. Who was the head coach again when it was decided to let Faneca go and instead give the money to Kendall Simmons? Who was the head coach when they decided to pay Max Starks $22 million+ for three years of ****** service? Who was the head coach that decided Colon was a tackle when the minute he walked out the door (due to poor play) he instantly became ONLY a guard to other coaching staffs around the league? Who was the head coach that decided Kemoeatu was a starter worth a 5-year deal at $4 million/season? Who was the head coach that went into a season thinking Jonathon Scott was a capable starting left tackle?

And all the while, who was the head coach that endorsed a vertical offensive philosophy that made our quarterback hold onto the ball and look deep first?

You really want to blame that era of ineptitude up front on Cowher? Really?

Well to be fair ...they were Cowher's players right?

 

[SteelBuckeye]

What?

Sean Mahan was a hand-picked Tomlin free agent. He was with him in Tampa Bay. Who was the head coach again when it was decided to let Faneca go and instead give the money to Kendall Simmons? Who was the head coach when they decided to pay Max Starks $22 million+ for three years of ****** service? Who was the head coach that decided Colon was a tackle when the minute he walked out the door (due to poor play) he instantly became ONLY a guard to other coaching staffs around the league? Who was the head coach that decided Kemoeatu was a starter worth a 5-year deal at $4 million/season? Who was the head coach that went into a season thinking Jonathon Scott was a capable starting left tackle?

And all the while, who was the head coach that endorsed a vertical offensive philosophy that made our quarterback hold onto the ball and look deep first?

You really want to blame that era of ineptitude up front on Cowher? Really?

Nope, didn't blame it on Cowher at all ... just said that most of those guys were "Cowher's Players". Interesting that the HC gets all the blame for personnel decisions that go poorly. Yet, now that the drafts have started to look up a little it's because you feel that Colbert gained more control. From where I'm sitting, most of those decisions you point out above are GM type decisions. That's Colbert, with presumably input from Tomlin. Yet, in your mind, it's all Tomlin.

But, it's good to see you actually stating your position and standing by it rather than that pussyfooting you were doing earlier. Clarifies things greatly.

Also, what did Cowher leave in the cupboard as far as up and coming developmental O-Linemen?

 

[Ron Burgundy]

What?

Sean Mahan was a hand-picked Tomlin free agent. He was with him in Tampa Bay. Who was the head coach again when it was decided to let Faneca go and instead give the money to Kendall Simmons? Who was the head coach when they decided to pay Max Starks $22 million+ for three years of ****** service? Who was the head coach that decided Colon was a tackle when the minute he walked out the door (due to poor play) he instantly became ONLY a guard to other coaching staffs around the league? Who was the head coach that decided Kemoeatu was a starter worth a 5-year deal at $4 million/season? Who was the head coach that went into a season thinking Jonathon Scott was a capable starting left tackle?

And all the while, who was the head coach that endorsed a vertical offensive philosophy that made our quarterback hold onto the ball and look deep first?

You really want to blame that era of ineptitude up front on Cowher? Really?

Agree mostly except that Tomlin only decides WHO to play and Colbert decides WHAT to pay.
I think Starks was a disagreement between Tomlin and Colbert. Colbert paid him the money and Tomlin sat him on the bench. That deal didn't make sense unless the FO thought that Starks was pretty good, which is was, and the coaches thought he wasn't, and they were wrong.
Colon was good when he was healthy, which in his last three years here was never, so when they let him walk that was fine since he was hardly on the field anyway. Played something like 5 games in 3 years.

 

[keslerclan]

Thank god we have a coach who's greatest asset is knowing how stupid he is and not doing much. That's certainly worth top-5 coaching money!

I hope you did not misread my post as an endorsement of the massive contract given to MT. At best I see him as a spokesperson who has bought the groceries with Colbert for a menu that doesn't fit. I'm glad Haley and Munch are here and hope they have more of a voice in drafting (as history has shown us that MT and Colbert are not up to it). I'm also glad Butler will get his shot w the defense so we can see what MT has been dieing to do back there with these picks. I AM sceptical BUT hopeful. I don't care what the Rooney's do w their money but I certainly would've waited on the contracts for MT and KC until AFTER this season.

 

[IndySteel]

Quote from Mrs. IndySteel upon hearing about the extension: "What! Why? What are they thinking? I love her.