Noooooo (Tomlin 2 year extension)

[diver]

The offense success is on Haley and Ben. Tomlin is supposed to be D guy, like Cowher was. Cowher brought it. Where's Shade's mark?

The '08 defense was pretty ******' good.

Oh, yeah, that was Cowher players. Forgot that.

I guess it is on Tomlin only when bad things happen. He has nothing to do with good things.

Are some of you guys really this simple minded?

 

[diver]

It's Tomlin's team, offense and defense.

I'm just not buying into this great offensive juggernaut yet. Last year we played an average defense of 20th DVOA in the league. This year it's going to be 10th.

I just think this team is acting a little too much like it's accomplished something already. That they think their offense is all of that and their **** doesn't stink yet. They are going to be in for a rude awakening and I can just hear the excuses already.... Bell out 2 games... some injury on the O-line....

I certainly don't mind finally getting into the top-5 on offense. But it's hard to stay there. Like much of the Tomlin era, I don't want this offense to be an inconsistent mess of "no idea what will show up on Sunday".

I agree with this. Where we part company is the cause.

Ben Roethlisberger will never be the machine that Peyton Manning or Tom Brady are. Subsequently, you are going to get scattershot performances sometimes.

I am old enough to remember terry Bradshaw well. He was much the same way. He'd come out and throw for 350 one week (later in his career) against Cleveland, and then throw 5 picks the next against San Diego. I just don't remember blaming Noll for that. Great QB but had that quality.

Ben is great as well, but you are never going to get this smooth running offense all the time like you see with the other two. I just don't see that as Tomlin's fault. It is the nature of the players.

 

[stillwright]

He can't win with Ben and his own picks. Unless he does this year. We will see. I hope does. I will gladly eat crow. Right now he's just a cheerleader.

So this is the year that if the team wins then Tomlin will start to get credit? Long time coming.
Welcome Tomlin to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Off to the left you will see our display of SB trophies.......

 

[Steelerfan]

Yeah, well Cowher didn't turn over stones and unleash hell, so there! (dropping the mike)

 

[deljzc]

Perhaps last year's opponent's DVOAs were so low because they had to play us? So far, the DVOA for next season won't be determined until the end of the season.

I don't bank on previous years stats effecting this year's outcome. You may have a couple teams maintain consistency from year to year, but you'll have teams from last year's top 10 fall out and new teams going into it.

Exactly my point!!!

Everyone looks at last year's offensive success yet assumes it's going to stay consistent. Why can't I do that with our opposing defenses?

Pot meet kettle.....

 

[diver]

Because they essentially CUT him by not offering a contract, didn't WANT him, he had NO training camp, and is still better than the other six guys they kept and went through camp and preseason games.
Tombert didn't know their *** from a hole in the ground when it came to the OL until they hired Munchak.

One more thing about the embarrassing, then I swear I am going to drop it.

After the 2013 season concluded, the Patriots decided they no longer needed the services of LeGarrette Blount. Subsequently, he was signed by the Steelers, where he decided to smoke weed and get caught, and then act like a 4 year old at he end of a game. The Steelers cut him, and immediately the Patriots scoop him up.

Now, as you have established, doing similar things with players, at least in Tomlin's case, are "embarrassing." Should Belechick be embarrassed? Every coach in the league cuts players they think they don't need or want, only to bring a select few back. Should they all be "embarrassed" too?

 

[antdrewjosh]

*does slow clap for Diver*

 

[IndySteel]

*does hard fist pump for Indy*

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Now, as you have established, doing similar things with players, at least in Tomlin's case, are "embarrassing." Should Belechick be embarrassed? Every coach in the league cuts players they think they don't need or want, only to bring a select few back. Should they all be "embarrassed" too?

No, because Belichick is incapable of being embarrassed.

 

[diver]

No, because Belichick is incapable of being embarrassed.

Very good. You made me laugh.

 

[deljzc]

It is very rare for a head coach to "inherit" his assistant coaches as much as Tomlin did. So it is very hard to historical judge his positive/negative qualities of putting together his coaching staff.

Even many of the key assistant-assistant coaches (under Lebeau) were kept or dictated to Tomlin.

What we can conclude is as follows:

1. There is a strong case to be made Tomlin held onto Bruce Arians longer than he should have and that he failed to stand up to Roethlisberger for the betterment of the team.

2. How much say did Tomlin have for the failed offensive line coaches? The decisions of Zeirlien, Kugler and Bicknell have to sort of end with Tomlin, even if his OC's did most of the hiring. If Tomlin is to get credit for Munchack (which looks to be a great hire), he deserves criticism for the other 7 seasons.

3. We have argued ad nauseum on how much credit he gets for the Haley hire although many sources point to the fact the FIRING of Arians came from above and Tomlin would have (if given total autonomy) kept Arians additional seasons.

4. There is also a thought that even his new defensive coordinator was not completely his "fresh start" decision since rumors that Butler was pegged to succeed Lebeau existing even before Tomlin was hired. If that "promise" of promotion came from ownership during many of the off-seasons Butler was offered other DC jobs around the league (or at the request of Lebeau), then what role in Butler's success/failure lies on Tomlin's decision-making shoulders?

In summary, Tomlin has always had a unique roll in this organization when it comes to his assistant coaches. In many ways, he "rubber stamps" coaching staff decisions more than being the lead decision maker. That is very rare around the NFL and further exemplifies to me that Tomlin is a "company man" rather than a true innovator. That Tomlin's roll is not similar to other head coaching rolls and that his responsibility is considerably less.

I'm honestly fine with Tomlin as more figure head than one of those omnipotent head coaches that controls everything. And I think that's part of Tomlin's appeal to the Rooneys because he accepts his roll so well and doesn't rock the boat over control issues. If I have one positive to say about Tomlin is he keeps his ego in check.

But to say he's some mastermind, exception X's and O's coach that can build a team is poppycock. If anything I think he is about as innovative in football matters as my sister would be. He's a players' coach and he believes in his method of leadership/communication and organizing workouts and a season. Players like to play for him. He seems fair in his decisions.

That's what his is.

 

[diver]

Well, talk about being embarrassed. I was just going to ask how the hell you all put those Likes on posts only to just look and see...wait for it...the Likes thing.

 

[diver]

It is very rare for a head coach to "inherit" his assistant coaches as much as Tomlin did. So it is very hard to historical judge his positive/negative qualities of putting together his coaching staff.

Even many of the key assistant-assistant coaches (under Lebeau) were kept or dictated to Tomlin.

What we can conclude is as follows:

1. There is a strong case to be made Tomlin held onto Bruce Arians longer than he should have and that he failed to stand up to Roethlisberger for the betterment of the team.

2. How much say did Tomlin have for the failed offensive line coaches? The decisions of Zeirlien, Kugler and Bicknell have to sort of end with Tomlin, even if his OC's did most of the hiring. If Tomlin is to get credit for Munchack (which looks to be a great hire), he deserves criticism for the other 7 seasons.

3. We have argued ad nauseum on how much credit he gets for the Haley hire although many sources point to the fact the FIRING of Arians came from above and Tomlin would have (if given total autonomy) kept Arians additional seasons.

4. There is also a thought that even his new defensive coordinator was not completely his "fresh start" decision since rumors that Butler was pegged to succeed Lebeau existing even before Tomlin was hired. If that "promise" of promotion came from ownership during many of the off-seasons Butler was offered other DC jobs around the league (or at the request of Lebeau), then what role in Butler's success/failure lies on Tomlin's decision-making shoulders?

In summary, Tomlin has always had a unique roll in this organization when it comes to his assistant coaches. In many ways, he "rubber stamps" coaching staff decisions more than being the lead decision maker. That is very rare around the NFL and further exemplifies to me that Tomlin is a "company man" rather than a true innovator. That Tomlin's roll is not similar to other head coaching rolls and that his responsibility is considerably less.

I'm honestly fine with Tomlin as more figure head than one of those omnipotent head coaches that controls everything. And I think that's part of Tomlin's appeal to the Rooneys because he accepts his roll so well and doesn't rock the boat over control issues. If I have one positive to say about Tomlin is he keeps his ego in check.

But to say he's some mastermind, exception X's and O's coach that can build a team is poppycock. If anything I think he is about as innovative in football matters as my sister would be. He's a players' coach and he believes in his method of leadership/communication and organizing workouts and a season. Players like to play for him. He seems fair in his decisions.

That's what his is.

See, it depends on how you look at things.

Does Tomlin deserve any admiration, especially in today's society, of swallowing his pride and accepting some of the coaches that were here? For recognizing the great coach LeBeau was and not forcing him out? Recognizing he players he had would not fit his system therefore keeping what was here? I think he deserves a hell of a lot of credit for being able to put ego aside and do those things. Jimmy Johnson, for example, walked away from the Cowboys job years ago because Jerry Jones took a little too much credit. It is hard to believe 2 guys could be so egotistical about building a football team and not just enjoy the ride. Tomlin is a breath of fresh air in that regard.

Does Tomlin deserve credit for putting ego aside and hiring to former head coaches? They could be a threat to him, but he doesn't care.

Who the hell cares who makes the decision. Why is that important, as long as you get to a situation that is beneficial to the team. Maybe he kept Arians to long and deferred to Ben. The won a SB and went to another. I agree he did, but I can also see why he did. Chuck Noll, after 1988, a guy who won 4 SBs was told by the Rooney's he needed to make changes to his staff. It worked out for the better with their '89 run.

Innovation in football is an overrated term. Like adjustments. Play better and a team looks all innovative and looks as if they are great at adjustments. Play bad, and those things don't look that good.

 

[deljzc]

See, it depends on how you look at things.

Does Tomlin deserve any admiration, especially in today's society, of swallowing his pride and accepting some of the coaches that were here? For recognizing the great coach LeBeau was and not forcing him out? Recognizing he players he had would not fit his system therefore keeping what was here? I think he deserves a hell of a lot of credit for being able to put ego aside and do those things. Jimmy Johnson, for example, walked away from the Cowboys job years ago because Jerry Jones took a little too much credit. It is hard to believe 2 guys could be so egotistical about building a football team and not just enjoy the ride. Tomlin is a breath of fresh air in that regard.

Does Tomlin deserve credit for putting ego aside and hiring to former head coaches? They could be a threat to him, but he doesn't care.

Who the hell cares who makes the decision. Why is that important, as long as you get to a situation that is beneficial to the team. Maybe he kept Arians to long and deferred to Ben. The won a SB and went to another. I agree he did, but I can also see why he did. Chuck Noll, after 1988, a guy who won 4 SBs was told by the Rooney's he needed to make changes to his staff. It worked out for the better with their '89 run.

Innovation in football is an overrated term. Like adjustments. Play better and a team looks all innovative and looks as if they are great at adjustments. Play bad, and those things don't look that good.

And I agree with you that's his greatest asset.

He didn't rock the boat. He's not trying to swim against the current or change the course of the river.

I guess we can praise that about him, but when he has to face adversity I'm not sure he's capable of being the type of leader to get us through it.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

And I agree with you that's his greatest asset.

He didn't rock the boat. He's not trying to swim against the current or change the course of the river.

I guess we can praise that about him, but when he has to face adversity I'm not sure he's capable of being the type of leader to get us through it.

In the last 4-5 years, he's lost to injury/retirement/declining skills/idiocy the likes of: Smith, Hampton, Farrior, Woodley, Ward, Wallace, Keisel, Taylor, Polamalu. Heath had the knee injury. Ditto Pouncey. Ben initially was passive-aggressive about resisting the move to Haley as OC. There was a power struggle with Lebeau about the direction of the defense (that's pretty obvious with the increased emphasis on cover-2 principles now that DL is gone). How much more adversity do you want him or the team to face? Oh, and while you guys belittle the achievement, his teams did not have losing seasons while going through this adversity and last year put up an 11-5 record. So again, how much, or specifically what type of adversity are you talking about ... because the word itself without clarification is just a kind of generic and ambiguous way to throw directionless/scattershot criticism at a guy you don't like..

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

And I agree with you that's his greatest asset.

He didn't rock the boat. He's not trying to swim against the current or change the course of the river.

I guess we can praise that about him, but when he has to face adversity I'm not sure he's capable of being the type of leader to get us through it.

What are you talking about?!

Steeler's 2013 first 8 games: 2-6

Result? 8-8 and \one botched FG away from making the playoffs.

I would call that overcoming adversity. I would call that rallying the troops.

 

[Vader]

One more thing about the embarrassing, then I swear I am going to drop it.

After the 2013 season concluded, the Patriots decided they no longer needed the services of LeGarrette Blount. Subsequently, he was signed by the Steelers, where he decided to smoke weed and get caught, and then act like a 4 year old at he end of a game. The Steelers cut him, and immediately the Patriots scoop him up.

Now, as you have established, doing similar things with players, at least in Tomlin's case, are "embarrassing." Should Belechick be embarrassed? Every coach in the league cuts players they think they don't need or want, only to bring a select few back. Should they all be "embarrassed" too?

Belicheat is a disgrace and is a known cheater. If the NFL raided their offices they'd come away with evidence of cheating that goes back over 15 years. He is an embarrassment to the sport.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

What are you talking about?!

Steeler's 2013 first 8 games: 2-6

Result? 8-8 and \one botched FG away from making the playoffs.

I would call that overcoming adversity. I would call that rallying the troops.

Doesn't fit the narrative. The fact is that Tomlin could lead this team to number 7 and some folks would still find something to criticize or a way to try to diminish the accomplishment. Why? Because he's not the guy they wanted for the job originally. Whisenhunt has done jack crap since that SB run in AZ. Grimm? Where the hell is he anyway? But somehow, those two would have been better "fits" for the Steelers. Well, them or some mythological, mystical, "my invisible friend" HC candidate that's not only better than Tomlin, but available too.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Well, talk about being embarrassed. I was just going to ask how the hell you all put those Likes on posts only to just look and see...wait for it...the Likes thing.

Welcome to the new board. :beer:

 

[antdrewjosh]

Butler and Tomlin have history together that's dates back to when they were on the same staff coaching in college

 

[Wingman]

I just don't get the word embarrassing. If you fart in the middle of church where everyone can hear it, that's embarrassing. You are walking down a busy street and fall over your own two feet in front of everybody, that's embarrassing. Trying something and realizing that you may have miscalculated, then correcting it, I just don't see that as embarrassing.

Not if you quickly look to the person next to you and say "Really?", after that no matter what he or she says will not be believed.

 

[Stryker]

Exactly my point!!!

Everyone looks at last year's offensive success yet assumes it's going to stay consistent. Why can't I do that with our opposing defenses?

Pot meet kettle.....

Simply because, the Steelers are returning all of their players from last year's offense. There is a consistency here that does not stand up to the variable nature of last year's top 10 defenses.

 

[Wingman]

One more thing about the embarrassing, then I swear I am going to drop it.

After the 2013 season concluded, the Patriots decided they no longer needed the services of LeGarrette Blount. Subsequently, he was signed by the Steelers, where he decided to smoke weed and get caught, and then act like a 4 year old at he end of a game. The Steelers cut him, and immediately the Patriots scoop him up.

Now, as you have established, doing similar things with players, at least in Tomlin's case, are "embarrassing." Should Belechick be embarrassed? Every coach in the league cuts players they think they don't need or want, only to bring a select few back. Should they all be "embarrassed" too?

No they brought him back and he was still getting paid by the steelers as his contract was guaranteed because of veteran provisions in the collective bargaining agreement. They also brought in a player that was able to contribute to their team. Who was brought in later by the steelers and what did he contribute? Oh yeah that guy......

 

[deljzc]

What are you talking about?!

Steeler's 2013 first 8 games: 2-6

Result? 8-8 and \one botched FG away from making the playoffs.

I would call that overcoming adversity. I would call that rallying the troops.

Yeah... getting into the playoffs as an 8-8 team would be SUCH an achievement. Stop the presses.

And I'm more concerned about the adversity of team building and roster management during the prime Roethlisberger years. Again, his job was to build us into a perennial winner. Missing the playoffs 3 times and going one-and-done 3 other times the last 7 seasons isn't getting it done in my opinion.

You can make all the excuses you want, but he was a main part of TWO full draft classes (2008-2009) not ever seeing a 2nd contract in a Steelers uniform. He was part of a broken offensive line that continually exposed Reothlisberger to injuries that derailed seasons come December/January (2011). And now he's in charge of a collapse in defensive pressure on opposing quarterback we have to go back to 1989 and 1990 to find a 2-year stretch as bad as what we are currently in. And this despite the fact he's invested TONS of draft resources into the defensive front-7.

We keep wanting to praise him for the "new offense" but maybe he's been holding Roethlisberger back from this type of success for YEARS due to his failures. Hanging on to Arians and the terrible offensive line contracts from 2007-2010 come to mind as reasons he should have been in charge of.

Why did we have to wait until Roethlisberger was 32 years old for him to have his best season ever?

 

[keslerclan]

As I said, this year will finally show what innovations MT brings to the defense. Aside from drafting square pegs for Lebeau to use in his defensive scheme, Mike now has his 'style' players to work with on a new defensive scheme controlled by Butler whom Tomlin worked under at Memphis and Ark.St. in the past. This will be the year we see what kind of defense he prefers to run. Our schedule won't make it easy on them either. Hope for the best.

As del and others have said, Tomlin's greatest asset may be his lack of insecurity when it comes to having former Head Coaches and Butler (whom he started out working for as a Grad.Asst.) on his staff.

One of the best attributes of a good manager is when they are not afraid to hire people who might even be better than themselves in order to have the best 'team' possible.