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Noooooo (Tomlin 2 year extension)

Del.
If Tomlin is average (I'm not saying he is or isn't )....what does that make your first choice (Whiz)? Do you thonk he is better than Tomlin? Just curious.
 
You really want to blame Roethlisberger for the "Tebow game?" 23 points should have been more than enough to beat that team. Also, Cotchery and Wallace both had crucial drops in the first half.

Roethlisberger has his flaws, but Tomlin would have been fired YEARS AGO without him. The Steelers need both a consistent running game and/or an elite defense to maximize their potential with Roethlisberger at QB. Under Tomlin, they've never had the former, and Cowher handed him the latter, which he and Colbert have proceeded to royally **** over, by failing to replace the likes of Smith, Hampton, Harrison, Taylor and Polamalu with even remotely comparable talent.

You want to place the bulk of the blame on the players, but these are largely "Tomlin's players" at this point.

Many of us are frustrated because we can see the writing on the wall once Roethlisberger declines and/or retires. This team will essentially become the Browns, not just because they'd lack a franchise QB, but because the coach is borderline clueless.

I am not blaming him. It takes a team. He was but an example. However, if he plays better in those games, more like a "franchise" QB, do they win? If you have the courage to answer yes, which is the truth, than this "all on Tomlin" **** has no validity.

Do you realize what you just said? They need a consistent running game AND elite defense to maximize Ben. Does Brady have a consistent running game? Maybe. Does he have an elite defense? Hell, no. So our franchise guy needs all this help. Again, I only point this out because of my umbrage at the blame Tomlin for everything crowd. I think the world of Ben.

Worry about this ******' year. Who gives a flying **** about 5 years from now when Ben declines or retires. Even if it is sooner than that, just worry about this year. Damn, I cannot stand that.
 
Tomlin is not SOLELY responsible for anything. Colbert is at fault. The players are at fault. Luck is at fault.

But that is part of what makes average, average. When you are good (or great) you find ways to overcome all the normal day-to-day adversity and overachieve vs. the average. This team, under the LEADERSHIP of Tomlin and Colbert, has not. It has played at or below what normal statistical averages would have predicted over the past 8 seasons.

Granted, I have said this forever, winning a Super Bowl is extremely, extremely hard. They deserve a TON of credit for that in 2008. And at the time, through 2 seasons, Tomlin was hitting on all cylinders. But the decline is partly his responsibility. And the decline was fairly drastic when you consider we had a franchise quarterback ages 27-32 with 2 Super Bowl Rings on his hand. To miss the playoffs 3 times since then and go one-and-done 3 other times since that last Super Bowl victory is a pretty bad track record in a "what did you do for me lately" league.

And there is no correct "what if" answer that I can promote that would guarantee better results over the last 8 seasons.

I am on record that Whisenhunt was my #1 choice in 2007. I would have quickly hired him after the dog-and-pony show of "interviews" and "Rooney Rule" stuff. His managing of the offense in 2006 sold me on him. I think he would have been good for Roethlisberger's development (more-so than Arians) and I think he would have taken the job even if the Rooney's demanded he retain Lebeau as his DC.

But once Tomlin was hired and that decision was water under the bridge, I have NEVER been on-record, in any off-season, that I would fire him. I'm just stating he's average. The only on-record change I would have made was firing Colbert after 2013 (the 2nd 8-8 season in a row). I would have gone younger, someone more 21st century. And that GM's input on Tomlin would have influenced my decisions on him moving forward.

I have said numerous times, I'm not convinced Colbert is fairly evaluating Tomlin's performance for Art Rooney II. I think Colbert and Tomlin are too tied together at the hip and I am not convinced there is enough constructive disagreement between the two. I am also on record as being a bit disappointed in Art Rooney II and his increased involvement with NFL matters (revenue growth) and not enough involvement with the team. Rooney currently seems very content with the product Tombert has been putting out on the field. I am not and don't know how anyone could since we haven't won a playoff game since 2010.

So in order:

1. I was on record Whisenhunt was my #1 choice in 2007
2. I've wanted to find a way to fire Colbert for YEARS, but the only realistic time was after 2013 (I can't remember, but I probably wanted Colbert fired after 2009 as well but that would have been a hard sell a year removed from the Super Bowl).
3. I was on record that I wanted to fire Arians after the 2010 season, despite the Super Bowl appearance.

Look, I loved our 2008 super bowl run. Great for everyone involved. But we have to honestly ask ourselves how much leeway that gives Tomlin in his job evaluation. Since 2008, it's been pretty crappy and I just don't know how anyone can argue otherwise. Just because none of those mediocre seasons fell to 7-9 doesn't make them good or worthy of praise. This team has underperformed a LOT on big and small stages. And Tomlin has too.

The decline has a hell of a lot to do with great players getting too old and not being able to do it as well anymore. I know, they should have replaced them. Yea, it's just that easy. I will keep saying it. If it is that easy, they would have about 30 SB trophies cause the could have just replaced those '70s guys and just kept replacing with similar talent.

Do some of you guys not know any NFL history? Tell me a team in the SB era that has won a SB in the '60s, again in the '70s, then again in the '80s, '90s, '00s and '10s. all of those decades. There aren't any. Why? Because teams rise and fall. Better organizations, like the Steelers, who do not have knee jerk reactions all the time, are much more consistent and have many more opportunities.

Tomlin would have been a damn fool to bring in his own guys and get rid of some of the players that were here. Now that they are retiring, he is replacing. We will see. Maybe you will be right, and he will be proven to have done a poor job replacing. But as someone said, this is now his team, so let's see. Before we run him out on a rail, let's see what he does with his collection of talent. Before we make all these proclamations.
 
Cowher and Tomlin are both among the 50 coaches all time with 50 or more career wins. They are also a rather select part of that group with over 60% win record and 2 SB appearances. If that constitutes average in some peoples mind so be it-but maybe they need to question their judgment a bit.
 
The decline has a hell of a lot to do with great players getting too old and not being able to do it as well anymore. I know, they should have replaced them. Yea, it's just that easy. I will keep saying it. If it is that easy, they would have about 30 SB trophies cause the could have just replaced those '70s guys and just kept replacing with similar talent.

Do some of you guys not know any NFL history? Tell me a team in the SB era that has won a SB in the '60s, again in the '70s, then again in the '80s, '90s, '00s and '10s. all of those decades. There aren't any. Why? Because teams rise and fall. Better organizations, like the Steelers, who do not have knee jerk reactions all the time, are much more consistent and have many more opportunities

It's not easy, but that should not automatically be an excuse.

It wasn't easy to replace the core players of those 1990s teams who made it to all those conference title games and a Super Bowl, but Cowher did it rather quickly.

In Tomlin, all I see is a guy who is riding the maturation of a talented QB, which would have transpired even with Peewee Herman replacing Cowher. The defensive personnel has gotten progressively worse during the majority of Tomlin's tenure, and the Steelers have never had better than an average offensive line with him in charge.

We're going on nine seasons now, and the sample size is expanding. Tomlin managed Cowher's teams well, but has descended into mediocrity, even with a franchise QB, while Cowher's fingerprints on the team have faded over the past several years.

I WANT to be proven wrong, but I'm worried that the Steelers will regret extending the clown twins (Tomlin and Colbert), going on five years without a playoff victory.
 
Cowher and Tomlin are both among the 50 coaches all time with 50 or more career wins. They are also a rather select part of that group with over 60% win record and 2 SB appearances. If that constitutes average in some peoples mind so be it-but maybe they need to question their judgment a bit.

One piggy-backed on what the other had built and has been mediocre ever since.
 
It's not easy, but that should not automatically be an excuse.

It wasn't easy to replace the core players of those 1990s teams who made it to all those conference title games and a Super Bowl, but Cowher did it rather quickly.

In Tomlin, all I see is a guy who is riding the maturation of a talented QB, which would have transpired even with Peewee Herman replacing Cowher. The defensive personnel has gotten progressively worse during the majority of Tomlin's tenure, and the Steelers have never had better than an average offensive line with him in charge.

We're going on nine seasons now, and the sample size is expanding. Tomlin managed Cowher's teams well, but has descended into mediocrity, even with a franchise QB, while Cowher's fingerprints on the team have faded over the past several years.

I WANT to be proven wrong, but I'm worried that the Steelers will regret extending the clown twins (Tomlin and Colbert), going on five years without a playoff victory.

Let's not be all revisionist here. After the 2000 season, the 3rd without the playoffs, people wanted Cowher gone, too. For much the same reason. He wasn't replacing the talent. What that situation teaches us, if we are willing to see it, is that it takes a bit of time. The players picked to replace have to be given time to mature and then succeed. We are 15 years removed from that. Hindsight is 20/20. Hell, I remember arguing with people, who after the 15-1 season in '04, concluded that because Cowher hadn't won it yet, he never would. How the hell you can jump to that conclusion, I don't know. One has nothing to do with the other.

The OL if you are honest, was hanging on during Cowher's last year. It was not a strength of the team that Tomlin destroyed. It is not like he has ignored it. He has tried to build something there. And the defense has regressed because the players got old. However, I would rather ride it out with great players I know can do it, then run them out too soon and miss something, kind of like they did with Rod Woodson. Tomlin should not be faulted for that.

I am not worried. Not because I am so sure about Tomlin, but we will know one way or the other over the next few years. I am fine with that.
 
One piggy-backed on what the other had built and has been mediocre ever since.

****, **** ,****, ****. I cannot stand that one either. Who is coaching the team at the time deserves the credit.

Dermontti Dawson. Greg Lloyd. Rod Woodson. Carnell Lake. Barry Foster. Eric Green. Merrill Hoge. Justin Strelzyk. Carlton Haselrig. Hardy Nickerson. Larry Griffen. Even Neil O'Donnell. Players Cowher inherited that were instrumental in his early success. Never once did I say Cowher built his success on Chuck Noll. To say Tomlin has is just bullshit.
 
It's not easy, but that should not automatically be an excuse.

It wasn't easy to replace the core players of those 1990s teams who made it to all those conference title games and a Super Bowl, but Cowher did it rather quickly.

In Tomlin, all I see is a guy who is riding the maturation of a talented QB, which would have transpired even with Peewee Herman replacing Cowher. The defensive personnel has gotten progressively worse during the majority of Tomlin's tenure, and the Steelers have never had better than an average offensive line with him in charge.

We're going on nine seasons now, and the sample size is expanding. Tomlin managed Cowher's teams well, but has descended into mediocrity, even with a franchise QB, while Cowher's fingerprints on the team have faded over the past several years.

I WANT to be proven wrong, but I'm worried that the Steelers will regret extending the clown twins (Tomlin and Colbert), going on five years without a playoff victory.

That part right there. The bolded part. That's just flat out revisionist, falsifying history. Cowher did NOT replace those teams of the 90's quickly. As a matter of fact, we went about three years without seeing the playoffs and about two of those years were with losing records. That **** right there would have some on this board (not saying you specifically) reaching for the nooses if it was Tomlin. And again, while the playoffs sucked last year, 11-5, a Division Championship, one of the top ranked offenses in the league .... with 95% or more of players drafted or acquired during his tenure. Seems like a pretty good year ... not great ... but good.

Cowher couldn't/wouldn't find a QB during most of his time here. He CHOSE to go the Graham, Tomczak, retread and Korkie (slash/project) route. There were QBs available through FA that would have helped this team and he chose not to pursue them. Don't you think Montana could have helped those teams better than Grahmczak? So all this crap about Cowher not having a QB ... well, it was by design because he didn't value the position. No need for a franchise QB if your offense is predicated on "Marty Ball".

All of that said, Cowher COULD and did build dominant defenses. Well, if we evaluate him along the same lines as Tomlin, Cowher's DCs built some dominant defenses. Personally, I think he was a helluva coach and I cheered just like everyone else when that chin stuck out and the spittle started flying. I wouldn't put him on my Mt. Rushmore of all-time great coaches, but he was better than a majority of his peers (top 5 during his era). I personally put Tomlin ahead of guys like Marvin Lewis (really?), Whisenhunt (what has he accomplished?), Grimm (is he even still coaching?) and Dungy (simply because Dungy ain't coaching no more and won't be). So, that leaves Tomlin in a group behind the Cheater that includes McCarthy, Carroll and .... can't think of anyone else.

And yes, there are times when I get exasperated with Tomlin (Clock miscues, not going for the jugular, challenges - which is actually a fallacy because Tomlin has one of the higher success rates on challenges in the NFL). There were times when I got exasperated with Cowher (Field Goal Bill, Marty Ball, not going for the jugular, AFCC Game loss after loss ... hell, Belicheat had Cowher's number long before he had Tomlin's).

That's just my opinion. You can agree, disagree or not give a ****. I do know that I'm going to go grab a scotch, grill a steak and just chill, because even if I hated the Tomlin re-up, there isn't a damned thing I could do about it. And, sitting around hoping the guy fails just so I could be proven right on a forum seems kinda ..... stupid.
 
IMO, the jury is still out on Tomlin as a coach and here's why:

He coached his first years with another HC's players and DC.

He has managed to get some pretty good coordinators and positional coaches on board which likely will make him look better.

He hasn't been very good at evaluating draft talent and has been drafting players more suited to a scheme HE likes opposed to the one we had.

This being said, I believe THIS will be the year we see what he has to offer as a HC. He has control of the Defense for the first time in his career here. He was considered a DC candidate on the rise when he was hired so we shall see what he does with the pieces he has drafted to play here. We have a tough schedule so it will be a "trial by fire" for him.

We all know he has issues w team discipline, clock management and the draft NOW we get to see what HE can do with the defense as I'm sure he's been waiting for DL to retire and it hasn't happened as fast as he would've liked.

I still believe (like del and others) that shedding BA was a good call. I think Colbert is/was part of the problem with the drafts and managing our choices w the "cap". Now they have the keys and their own picks to deal with. Let's see how they do this year and hope for the best.
 
Cowher made it to his first Super Bowl with some Noll players as major components. So let's see how he replaced them.

Neil O'Donnell with Kordell Stewart. That didn't work out real well and he bumbled ****** around until he got Ben.

Barry Foster (not on that SB team of course) with Bam Morris. Drug Addict. Nice job replacing him with Bettis in '96.

Dermontti Dawson. When he started getting hurt it took him a bit to get Jeff Hartings.

Greg Lloyd. Donta Jones. Who? Took a couple of years until he got Porter.

Rod Woodson. Never was able to replace him.

Carnell Lake. Left after '98 I think, took till '03 until they got TP.

Cowher went a decade between Super Bowls, in a large part because he was having some trouble replacing great talent. So let's not act like it was this endless run of championships or that it is easy to do.

I hate doing this because I loved Cowher. I like Tomlin, too, but to be honest, if I had to choose between the two I would take Cowher. I just do not like some of the arguments used to disparage Tomlin. They are stupid.
 
The OL if you are honest, was hanging on during Cowher's last year. It was not a strength of the team that Tomlin destroyed. It is not like he has ignored it. He has tried to build something there. And the defense has regressed because the players got old. However, I would rather ride it out with great players I know can do it, then run them out too soon and miss something, kind of like they did with Rod Woodson. Tomlin should not be faulted for that.
Cowher had built a great OL. Tombert used A LOT of draft picks on OL but most of them just weren't very good. Look at how they kept trying to run Max Starks off but they could never find a decent LT to replace him. As fans we loved it when they called Max away from his couch watching "The Young And The Restless" and he was instantly their best LT and second-best OL but for Tombert it should have been ******* embarrassing.* The OL is good now but it took a damn long time to get there and Mike Adams is still drawing a paycheck here.

* Dittos calling Deebo back two weeks after he retired because their other LB were either hurt or sucked or both.
 
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Yea, but the implication here is that Cowher left Tomlin with a team that was strong in all areas. The OL was weakening in Cowher's last year. That is just a fact, due to age issues and injuries. And I agree that it has taken a while. Some things take time. There are hits and misses.

The QB position became good in '04, but it took Cowher a hell of a long time to get there, and Tommy Maddox was still on the roster. I can play that, too.

Why is it embarrassing? They tried something, it didn't work, so they got guys back. When I go fishing, I go with a plan, what fly will work. If it doesn't, I don't get all embarrassed, I try to find a fly that will work. That embarrassed thing makes no damn sense.
 
Give Tomlin Korky and Maddox and he'd be lucky to win four games a year. The Browns, split with Cincy and add a fluke.
 
Give Tomlin Korky and Maddox and he'd be lucky to win four games a year. The Browns, split with Cincy and add a fluke.


Sort of like when Cowher went 5-11 and 6-10 with those QBs??
 
Why is it embarrassing? They tried something, it didn't work, so they got guys back. When I go fishing, I go with a plan, what fly will work. If it doesn't, I don't get all embarrassed, I try to find a fly that will work. That embarrassed thing makes no damn sense.
Because they essentially CUT him by not offering a contract, didn't WANT him, he had NO training camp, and is still better than the other six guys they kept and went through camp and preseason games.
Tombert didn't know their *** from a hole in the ground when it came to the OL until they hired Munchak.
 
Sort of like when he up coached the **** of them and made the playoffs multiple times.

So Tomlin should cut Ben so he can prove to you he can win without him. Yep that makes sense.

Nevermind the fact he went 11-5 with a sorry defense last year. His doing of course. But of course it wasn't Cower fault he had the QBs he had right. That's how that's works right??
 
So Tomlin should cut Ben so he can prove to you he can win without him. Yep that makes sense.

Nevermind the fact he went 11-5 with a sorry defense last year. His doing of course. But of course it wasn't Cower fault he had the QBs he had right. That's how that's works right??

He can't win with Ben and his own picks. Unless he does this year. We will see. I hope does. I will gladly eat crow. Right now he's just a cheerleader.
 
The offense success is on Haley and Ben. Tomlin is supposed to be D guy, like Cowher was. Cowher brought it. Where's Shade's mark?
 
It's Tomlin's team, offense and defense.

I'm just not buying into this great offensive juggernaut yet. Last year we played an average defense of 20th DVOA in the league. This year it's going to be 10th.

I just think this team is acting a little too much like it's accomplished something already. That they think their offense is all of that and their **** doesn't stink yet. They are going to be in for a rude awakening and I can just hear the excuses already.... Bell out 2 games... some injury on the O-line....

I certainly don't mind finally getting into the top-5 on offense. But it's hard to stay there. Like much of the Tomlin era, I don't want this offense to be an inconsistent mess of "no idea what will show up on Sunday".
 
Eight years in and Tomlin has still not put his imprint on the team, we are a scattershot team that is not consistent from one game to the next much less year to year. With Cowher you knew he was in charge for good or bad and his teams would be tough and run the ball . With Tomlin it is eh all talk about being men and being tough but then the same old same old lethargic spotty play all too ofyen. Witht he better coaches like the Harbaughs, Belicheck,etc, you know who is in charge and what the teams will be about, with Tomlin it is just eh.
 
Perhaps last year's opponent's DVOAs were so low because they had to play us? So far, the DVOA for next season won't be determined until the end of the season.

I don't bank on previous years stats effecting this year's outcome. You may have a couple teams maintain consistency from year to year, but you'll have teams from last year's top 10 fall out and new teams going into it.
 
Because they essentially CUT him by not offering a contract, didn't WANT him, he had NO training camp, and is still better than the other six guys they kept and went through camp and preseason games.
Tombert didn't know their *** from a hole in the ground when it came to the OL until they hired Munchak.

I just don't get the word embarrassing. If you fart in the middle of church where everyone can hear it, that's embarrassing. You are walking down a busy street and fall over your own two feet in front of everybody, that's embarrassing. Trying something and realizing that you may have miscalculated, then correcting it, I just don't see that as embarrassing.
 
Give Tomlin Korky and Maddox and he'd be lucky to win four games a year. The Browns, split with Cincy and add a fluke.

He started a year 3-1, very well could have been 4-0 with Charlie Batch. In fact he won more often with Batch when he had to play him than he lost.
 
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