Nope. Walls don’t work.

[Tibs]

A boatload of broken promises.....

 

[Troglodyte]

A boatload of broken promises.....

Yep. “I will shut down the government until they force American taxpayers to fund the border wall!!!”

 

[Vader]

If you don't support a wall you want open borders.. period. How in the hell is a drone going to stop people? How are sensors going to stop people? They don't. The border patrol can be over ran without a wall. Only a moron or someone that is dishonest would say that a "virtual" wall will do as good a job as a real wall. It's ******* stupid.

The dems hide behind "Border security" which they know won't work without the wall. IF it did work there wouldn't be 12-20 million illegals in the country today.

BTW if you could stop illegal immigration it would pay for itself. Illegals make up a huge percent of our prison population and over half are on welfare programs.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

A boatload of broken promises.....

Selective Outrage again. You showed no outrage when Obama broke campaign promise after promise. Didn't care. Didn't *****. Didn't wail. Stood by in ardent support of the man. Now? Oh the outrage!!

Obama failed to deliver on 127 promises. Every promise below was broken. https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-broken/

Promise Broken rulings on The Obameter

1. Eliminate all oil and gas tax loopholes
2. Expand the child and dependent care credit
3. Require publicly traded financial partnerships to pay the corporate income tax
4. Close loopholes in the corporate tax deductibility of CEO pay
5. Create a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners
6. Provide option for a pre-filled-out tax form
7. Create a mortgage interest tax credit for non-itemizers
8. Require automatic enrollment in 401(k) plans
9. Create a retirement savings tax credit for low incomes
10. End income tax for seniors making less than $50,000
11. End no-bid contracts above $25,000
12. Create a $60 billion bank to fund roads and bridges
13. Tax carried interest as ordinary income
14. Sign the Employee Free Choice Act, making it easier for workers to unionize
15. Lift the payroll tax cap on earnings above $250,000
16. Allow workers to claim more in unpaid wages and benefits in bankruptcy court
17. Allow imported prescription drugs
18. Prevent drug companies from blocking generic drugs
19. Allow Medicare to negotiate for cheaper drug prices
20. Appoint federal-level coordinator to oversee all federal autism efforts
21. Double federal funding for cancer research
22. Provide the CDC $50 million in funding to determine effective approaches for cancer patient care
23. Sign the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities
24. Fully fund the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA)
25. Create a National Commission on People with Disabilities, Employment, and Social Security
26. Change rules so small businesses owned by people with disabilities get preferences for contracts.
27. Reduce the threshhold for the Family and Medical Leave Act from companies with 50 employees to companies with 25 employees
28. Provide a $1.5 billion fund to help states launch programs for paid family and medical leave
29. Require employers to provide seven paid sick days per year
30. Amend the Medicare "homebound" rule to allow some travel without loss of benefits
31. Expand the Family Medical Leave Act to include leave for domestic violence or sexual assault
32. Form international group to help Iraq refugees
33. Work with Russia to move nuclear weapons off hair-trigger alert
34. Clarify legal status for defense contractor personnel
35. Double U.S. spending on foreign aid to $50 billion a year by 2012
36. Establish a Global Education Fund
37. Launch a new 'America's Voice Corps'
38. Close the Guantanamo Bay Detention Center
39. Develop an alternative to President Bush's Military Commissions Act on handling detainees
40. Restore habeas corpus rights for "enemy combatants"
41. Improve port security through better radiation detection
42. Strengthen the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and double its budget in the next four years
43. Secure ratification of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT)
44. Mandate standards for securing personal data
45. Require companies to disclose personal information data breaches
46. Seek to negotiate a political agreement on Cyprus
47. With the G-8, launch Health Infrastructure 2020
48. Reinstate special envoy for the Americas
49. Double the Peace Corps
50. Seek independent watchdog agency to investigate congressional ethics violations
51. Create a public "Contracts and Influence" database
52. Allow five days of public comment before signing bills
53. Tougher rules against revolving door for lobbyists and former officials
54. Double funding for afterschool programs
55. Create scholarships to recruit new teachers
56. Require all schools of education to be accredited
57. Regulate pollution from major livestock operations
58. Provide a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants
59. Expand the Employment Non-Discrimination Act to include sexual orientation and gender identity
60. Sign the Deceptive Practices and Voter Intimidation Prevention Act into law
61. Eliminate caps on damages for discrimination cases
62. Allow bankruptcy judges to modify terms of a home mortgage
63. Increase the minimum wage to $9.50 an hour
64. Restore Superfund program so that polluters pay for clean-ups
65. Fully fund the COPS program
66. Support tax deduction for artists
67. Re-establish the National Aeronautics and Space Council
68. Support human mission to moon by 2020
69. Direct revenues from offshore oil and gas drilling to increased coastal hurricane protection
70. Create a national catastrophe insurance reserve
71. Establish a Global Energy Corps to promote green energy in developing countries
72. Expand service-learning in schools
73. Pay for the national service plan without increasing the deficit
74. Seek treaty to control fissile materials
75. Encourage diversity in media ownership
76. Double federal funding for basic science research over 10 years
77. Improve and prioritize student science assessments
78. Reduce the number of middle managers in the federal workforce
79. Limit subsidies for agribusiness
80. Strengthen anti-monopoly laws to favor independent farmers
81. Give tax incentives to new farmers
82. Strengthen the Age Discrimination in Employment Act
83. Limit term of director of national intelligence
84. Call for a consultative group of congressional leaders on national security
85. Give annual "State of the World" address
86. Work to ban the permanent replacement of striking workers
87. Reduce oil consumption by 35 percent by 2030
88. Establish a low carbon fuel standard
89. Require 25 percent renewable energy by 2025
90. Enact windfall profits tax for oil companies
91. Require drilling on current oil and gas leases
92. Create cap and trade system with interim goals to reduce global warming
93. Use revenue from cap and trade to support clean energy and environmental restoration
94. Require plug-in fleet at the White House
95. Require new federal fleet purchases to be half plug-in hybrids or electric vehicles
96. Require more flex-fuel cars for the federal government
97. Mandate flexible fuel vehicles by 2012
98. Double federal program to help "reverse" commuters who go from city to suburbs
99. Require energy conservation in use of transportation dollars
100. Provide an annual report on "state of our energy future"
101. Devote federal resources to promote cellulosic ethanol
102. Sign the Freedom of Choice Act
103. Allow penalty-free hardship withdrawals from retirement accounts in 2008 and 2009
104. Give the White House's Privacy and Civil Liberties Board subpoena power
105. Recognize the Armenian genocide
106. No family making less than $250,000 will see "any form of tax increase."
107. No signing statements to nullify instructions from Congress
108. Negotiate health care reform in public sessions televised on C-SPAN
109. Create a public option health plan for a new National Health Insurance Exchange.
110. Cut the cost of a typical family's health insurance premium by up to $2,500 a year
111. Bring Democrats and Republicans together to pass an agenda
112. Invest $50 billion in auto manufacturing facilities for fuel efficient vehicles
113. Introduce a comprehensive immigration bill in the first year
114. Walk with picketers when collective bargaining rights are threatened
115. End the war in Afghanistan in 2014
116. Create a secretary of business and consolidate nine goverment agencies on business into one
117. Lead the world in college graduates by 2020
118. Reduce federal aid to colleges that don't keep costs down
119. Double American exports over the next five years
120. Create 1 million new manufacturing jobs by the end of 2016
121. Enact the Buffett rule
122. Overhaul the corporate tax code and reduce the rate for manufacturing companies
123. End tax deductions for companies that offshore
124. Create a new tax credit for companies that bring jobs to the United States from overseas
125. Create a veterans job corps
126. Work to renew the assault weapons ban
127. Expose Special Interest Tax Breaks to Public Scrutiny

This illustrates a simple point. All politicians over-promise. Only the naive believe in politicians to honor all or even most of their promises. It's a campaign game to do so, to excite the base and the vast majority of campaign promises will be unfulfilled.

For you to continue to harp on Trump's broken promises when you didn't give one flying **** about Obama's 127 broken promises is the perfect definition of selective outrage.

 

[Stoney]

Trump should build a wall 25 feet tall in a 100ft enclosed circle and throw all the democrats in congress inside and ask them to find a way out. Then they'll see if walls work or not...

 

[Roy92040]

It seems to have worked in Berlin

 

[Troglodyte]

If you don't support a wall you want open borders.. period.

So you’d be in favor of building wals along the northern border and coastlines as well?

 

[Superman]

So you’d be in favor of building wals along the northern border and coastlines as well?

can you show us where the need is for a wall on the northern border or coastlines is needed?
can you show us why we have more people coming here from the southern border? (hint, has to do with more countries south of us)
can you tell us why anyone from a more socialist country would want to come to a capitalist pig country such as ours?
could you ******* chip in on board fees, you ******* mooch? 6,478 posts as of now and not a goddamn dime chipped in.

 

[Superman]

Nobody wants open borders, that’s simply a myth - and yet another lie - propagated by Trump.

We just don’t support Trump’s harebrained, medevial wall, not on taxpayers dime. What happened to his initial plan to have Mexico foot the bill? Let’s get back to that. He said it over and over again and promised it would be easy. Until then, he should get out of the way and let the adults in the room, yes, the Democrats, end Trump’s idiotic government shut down.

when you were a child and made your mother mad, and she said "you'll pay for this", did you literally have to dig into your piggy bank?

 

[Vader]

So you’d be in favor of building wals along the northern border and coastlines as well?

Can you show me where a virtual wall works as well as a physical barrier? Can a virtual wall stop 4000 people from crossing the southern border? If not then you're full of **** and want open borders. Stop lying about it and just tell the truth.

The rest of that **** you just posted was taken care of by Superman. We're talking about the southern border not the northern border because we don't have MILLIONS of people flowing over illegally and filling out prisons, killing our people and stealing welfare.

 

[21STEELERS21]

A wall can work in a specific place, the problem is there are alternatives to getting into the United States. Half of all illegals came by
plane and overstayed their visas, others cross the border at checkpoints hidden in vehicles, others come by boats. All a wall does is prevent a
crossing at a certain point and require someone to use alternative entry methods. Best method of preventing illegal immigration is going to Universal E-verify
and prosecuting businesses like the Trump organization for employing illegals.

 

[Vader]

A wall can work in a specific place, the problem is there are alternatives to getting into the United States. Half of all illegals came by
plane and overstayed their visas, others cross the border at checkpoints hidden in vehicles, others come by boats. All a wall does is prevent a
crossing at a certain point and require someone to use alternative entry methods. Best method of preventing illegal immigration is going to Universal E-verify
and prosecuting businesses like the Trump organization for employing illegals.

But Dems don't want to deal with that issue either. Hell there are ******* Russians in Miami waiting to have their kids in the U.S. Anybody want to bet that the new Dem house wants to deal with that?

The wall works PERIOD. There is no debating that. A ******* drone won't stop people coming across the border. Yes, people overstay their visas but the dems won't deal with that either. At least they can deal with this issue but they don't want the wall because they know it will keep out future dem voters. They want open borders and lying about it won't fool most people. You can't be against the only thing that works and say you are for "Border security". It's a ******* lie.

 

[Stewey]

Selective Outrage again. You showed no outrage when Obama broke campaign promise after promise. Didn't care. Didn't *****. Didn't wail. Stood by in ardent support of the man. Now? Oh the outrage!!

Obama failed to deliver on 127 promises. Every promise below was broken. https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-broken/

Promise Broken rulings on The Obameter

1. Eliminate all oil and gas tax loopholes
2. Expand the child and dependent care credit
3. Require publicly traded financial partnerships to pay the corporate income tax
4. Close loopholes in the corporate tax deductibility of CEO pay
5. Create a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners
6. Provide option for a pre-filled-out tax form
7. Create a mortgage interest tax credit for non-itemizers
8. Require automatic enrollment in 401(k) plans
9. Create a retirement savings tax credit for low incomes
10. End income tax for seniors making less than $50,000
11. End no-bid contracts above $25,000
12. Create a $60 billion bank to fund roads and bridges
13. Tax carried interest as ordinary income
14. Sign the Employee Free Choice Act, making it easier for workers to unionize
15. Lift the payroll tax cap on earnings above $250,000
16. Allow workers to claim more in unpaid wages and benefits in bankruptcy court
17. Allow imported prescription drugs
18. Prevent drug companies from blocking generic drugs
19. Allow Medicare to negotiate for cheaper drug prices
20. Appoint federal-level coordinator to oversee all federal autism efforts
21. Double federal funding for cancer research
22. Provide the CDC $50 million in funding to determine effective approaches for cancer patient care
23. Sign the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities
24. Fully fund the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA)
25. Create a National Commission on People with Disabilities, Employment, and Social Security
26. Change rules so small businesses owned by people with disabilities get preferences for contracts.
27. Reduce the threshhold for the Family and Medical Leave Act from companies with 50 employees to companies with 25 employees
28. Provide a $1.5 billion fund to help states launch programs for paid family and medical leave
29. Require employers to provide seven paid sick days per year
30. Amend the Medicare "homebound" rule to allow some travel without loss of benefits
31. Expand the Family Medical Leave Act to include leave for domestic violence or sexual assault
32. Form international group to help Iraq refugees
33. Work with Russia to move nuclear weapons off hair-trigger alert
34. Clarify legal status for defense contractor personnel
35. Double U.S. spending on foreign aid to $50 billion a year by 2012
36. Establish a Global Education Fund
37. Launch a new 'America's Voice Corps'
38. Close the Guantanamo Bay Detention Center
39. Develop an alternative to President Bush's Military Commissions Act on handling detainees
40. Restore habeas corpus rights for "enemy combatants"
41. Improve port security through better radiation detection
42. Strengthen the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and double its budget in the next four years
43. Secure ratification of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT)
44. Mandate standards for securing personal data
45. Require companies to disclose personal information data breaches
46. Seek to negotiate a political agreement on Cyprus
47. With the G-8, launch Health Infrastructure 2020
48. Reinstate special envoy for the Americas
49. Double the Peace Corps
50. Seek independent watchdog agency to investigate congressional ethics violations
51. Create a public "Contracts and Influence" database
52. Allow five days of public comment before signing bills
53. Tougher rules against revolving door for lobbyists and former officials
54. Double funding for afterschool programs
55. Create scholarships to recruit new teachers
56. Require all schools of education to be accredited
57. Regulate pollution from major livestock operations
58. Provide a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants
59. Expand the Employment Non-Discrimination Act to include sexual orientation and gender identity
60. Sign the Deceptive Practices and Voter Intimidation Prevention Act into law
61. Eliminate caps on damages for discrimination cases
62. Allow bankruptcy judges to modify terms of a home mortgage
63. Increase the minimum wage to $9.50 an hour
64. Restore Superfund program so that polluters pay for clean-ups
65. Fully fund the COPS program
66. Support tax deduction for artists
67. Re-establish the National Aeronautics and Space Council
68. Support human mission to moon by 2020
69. Direct revenues from offshore oil and gas drilling to increased coastal hurricane protection
70. Create a national catastrophe insurance reserve
71. Establish a Global Energy Corps to promote green energy in developing countries
72. Expand service-learning in schools
73. Pay for the national service plan without increasing the deficit
74. Seek treaty to control fissile materials
75. Encourage diversity in media ownership
76. Double federal funding for basic science research over 10 years
77. Improve and prioritize student science assessments
78. Reduce the number of middle managers in the federal workforce
79. Limit subsidies for agribusiness
80. Strengthen anti-monopoly laws to favor independent farmers
81. Give tax incentives to new farmers
82. Strengthen the Age Discrimination in Employment Act
83. Limit term of director of national intelligence
84. Call for a consultative group of congressional leaders on national security
85. Give annual "State of the World" address
86. Work to ban the permanent replacement of striking workers
87. Reduce oil consumption by 35 percent by 2030
88. Establish a low carbon fuel standard
89. Require 25 percent renewable energy by 2025
90. Enact windfall profits tax for oil companies
91. Require drilling on current oil and gas leases
92. Create cap and trade system with interim goals to reduce global warming
93. Use revenue from cap and trade to support clean energy and environmental restoration
94. Require plug-in fleet at the White House
95. Require new federal fleet purchases to be half plug-in hybrids or electric vehicles
96. Require more flex-fuel cars for the federal government
97. Mandate flexible fuel vehicles by 2012
98. Double federal program to help "reverse" commuters who go from city to suburbs
99. Require energy conservation in use of transportation dollars
100. Provide an annual report on "state of our energy future"
101. Devote federal resources to promote cellulosic ethanol
102. Sign the Freedom of Choice Act
103. Allow penalty-free hardship withdrawals from retirement accounts in 2008 and 2009
104. Give the White House's Privacy and Civil Liberties Board subpoena power
105. Recognize the Armenian genocide
106. No family making less than $250,000 will see "any form of tax increase."
107. No signing statements to nullify instructions from Congress
108. Negotiate health care reform in public sessions televised on C-SPAN
109. Create a public option health plan for a new National Health Insurance Exchange.
110. Cut the cost of a typical family's health insurance premium by up to $2,500 a year
111. Bring Democrats and Republicans together to pass an agenda
112. Invest $50 billion in auto manufacturing facilities for fuel efficient vehicles
113. Introduce a comprehensive immigration bill in the first year
114. Walk with picketers when collective bargaining rights are threatened
115. End the war in Afghanistan in 2014
116. Create a secretary of business and consolidate nine goverment agencies on business into one
117. Lead the world in college graduates by 2020
118. Reduce federal aid to colleges that don't keep costs down
119. Double American exports over the next five years
120. Create 1 million new manufacturing jobs by the end of 2016
121. Enact the Buffett rule
122. Overhaul the corporate tax code and reduce the rate for manufacturing companies
123. End tax deductions for companies that offshore
124. Create a new tax credit for companies that bring jobs to the United States from overseas
125. Create a veterans job corps
126. Work to renew the assault weapons ban
127. Expose Special Interest Tax Breaks to Public Scrutiny

This illustrates a simple point. All politicians over-promise. Only the naive believe in politicians to honor all or even most of their promises. It's a campaign game to do so, to excite the base and the vast majority of campaign promises will be unfulfilled.

For you to continue to harp on Trump's broken promises when you didn't give one flying **** about Obama's 127 broken promises is the perfect definition of selective outrage.

No peep out of the Hungarian idiot yet?

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

No peep out of the Hungarian idiot yet?

There won't be. When the Tibs is schooled, the Tibs ignores. Common.

 

[Tibs]

No peep out of the < insert ethnic slur here > idiot yet?

There won't be. When the Tibs is schooled, the Tibs ignores. Common.

Not interested in analyzing past presidencies at this stage, when fuckface Trump is burning the country to the ground. I'll let you limp-dicked Putin poodles try to distract from the Trump shitshow by bringing up Obama's record, knock yourselves out. When you're this weak and exhausted from trying to defend the indefensible, no surprise you've got nothing left but to babble on about Obama/Hillary. That's all we've seen from the yellow-bellied Trump base these past two years, nothing new. When you worship and stand by a traitor and a criminal, an unhinged anti-American, you're left with few - if any - valid arguments to defend him.

 

[Tibs]

If there ever was an image that captures the current state of the Trump trainwreck it's this. Forever impotent, forever loser Trey Gowdy leaving Congress for the last time. This is the physical and mental state of the right in America in 2019, as an invigorated, diverse and enthusiastic Democratic majority takes over the House. Trump will never know what hit him.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

You making fun of his snappy PJs?

 

[CharlesDavenport]

A parting comment from Gowdy -

“The justice system is different from the political system,” said Gowdy, who spent 16 years as a prosecutor before being elected to Congress in 2010. “There’s rules, there’s process and a desired outcome. In politics the desire is simply to win. I did not want to be a part of that.”

Don't worry, Trey, you weren't. So when you were a prosecutor, you desired outcomes, but were not concerned with winning. That makes complete sense in the context of your track record as a congressman.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/undefeated-unindicted-trey-gowdy-shares-014825003.html

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Not interested in analyzing past presidencies at this stage.

You've validated your selective outrage.

This is the pure definition of it.

You've all but stated it for the record. We know it to be true. Would just be good to hear you say it. You only care about the transgressions of the opposing party. Period.

If this were Hillary in office right now, you wouldn't give two iotas about any that is going on.

Cold. Hard. Facts.

 

[Roy92040]

Gowdy was just tired of the whole congress mess. Everything he tried was met by a big stonewall. He needs to go back to a world that is just black or white.

 

[BAS]

A wall can work in a specific place, the problem is there are alternatives to getting into the United States. Half of all illegals came by
plane and overstayed their visas, others cross the border at checkpoints hidden in vehicles, others come by boats. All a wall does is prevent a
crossing at a certain point and require someone to use alternative entry methods. Best method of preventing illegal immigration is going to Universal E-verify
and prosecuting businesses like the Trump organization for employing illegals.

'Half of all illegals came by plane and overstayed their visas'? Do you have actual numbers to back that up?

 

[oneforthebus]

Nobody wants open borders, that’s simply a myth - and yet another lie - propagated by Trump.

Ha ha ha.

Liberals: I don't want open borders.

I just want anyone to be able to come into the country, without any vetting, and be given comfortable housing, food, medical care and education, with their family all together. Then they should be free to walk off into the sunset with a court date set 6 months later that they will never show up to. Then I don't want that court date enforced or anything. And if they break other laws, the police can't share that info with ICE. And if they do commit another crime and somehow get deported, and come back in illegally again, same rules apply.

But I don't want open borders.

 

[Tibs]

'Half of all illegals came by plane and overstayed their visas'? Do you have actual numbers to back that up?

That is not accurate. I believe the data proves the number is 2/3rd, not half.

 

[BAS]

That is not accurate. I believe the data proves the number is 2/3rd, not half.

Again... do you have the numbers to back that up?

 

[Tibs]

Again... do you have the numbers to back that up?

I'm shocked you guys continue to fall for Trump's constant lies, embelishments and deceptions. After two years you would think you'd know better, but guess not. The situation at the southern border is nowhere near the 'crisis' Trump wants you to believe. He's just trying to save face at this point, cause he suckered everyone into thinking he's gonna build a huge, monolithic, medieval border wall and Mexico was gonna pay for it. That was bullshit from day one, and now he has egg on his face as he's failed miserably getting anything done over two years running, and that was with a full GOP majority in both the House and Senate. And now the Dems are really gonna force his hand, as nobody's buying his bullshit anymore.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...lly-federal-data-show/?utm_term=.e10889a831dc

Border crossings don't even account for a majority of the people joining the unauthorized population in a given year. In fiscal 2016, for instance, the Department of Homeland Security estimated 628,799 people who had previously entered the country legally overstayed their visa that year. Other groups, such as the Center for Migration Studies, have similarly estimated that visa overstays account for about two-thirds of the total number of people joining the undocumented population in any given year.

“The number attempting to get across the Southern border is probably the lowest it's been since at least the 1970s,” said Robert Warren, a demographer with the Center for Migration Studies. “I'm surprised the [Trump] administration hasn't really focused on overstays. That's where the action is.”


Overall, DHS estimated in the fall that, based on Institute for Defense Analyses numbers, “successful illegal entries fell 91 percent between 2000 and 2016,” although DHS cautions that it's still updating and refining the methodology used to generate that estimate. Those figures largely comport with separate data sets, such as Customs and Border Protection's data on border apprehensions, showing a dramatic decrease in activity at the border over the past decade.