Im rooting for the Aussie. Mondays are hard enough on Mondays, i don't wanna have to root for a Monday on Sunday.
Our new punter looks to be an upgrade.
- Thread starter Coach
- Start date
Surprise conversations on 4th and short are definitely a plus! Brings down a lot of tension. Instead of blocking or being ready for a fake the opponent gets confused by things like 'Hey guys, what does freedom really mean?' Just hope his rhetoric skills are on NFL level.
;-)
;-)
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2015
- Messages
- 15,544
- Reaction score
- 3,801
- Points
- 113
Don't we open up on a Monday? Depressing name perhaps, I'm pulling for the better player which I think is Monday.
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2015
- Messages
- 15,544
- Reaction score
- 3,801
- Points
- 113
Now you have me talking kickers. The NFL is full of good ones them. Our guy is money from inside 50, so Berry won't have many touchbacks...because the kicker is getting 3. In addtion Tomlin likes to go for it on 4th and short more than most. Monday will give Tomlin a better option.
A kick from your opponets 37- 47 yard line is the area where touchbacks happen the most often. A 50 yard FG is roughly the oppoent 34 yard line. WIthout checking I'd bet most of Berry's inside the 20's happened when he punted around mid field on stalled drives.
Kick coverage is much better in the NFL for punters. They are harder to out kick and better and stopping the football when needed.
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2014
- Messages
- 2,244
- Reaction score
- 2,165
- Points
- 113
Then explain how Berry's college numbers for inside the 20 and touchbacks mirror his NFL numbers of the same category. Monday might have a monster leg, but lets not forget that Berry had a 79 yarder last year. Berry is no slouch, and hardly a weak link on the team. He had a rough game or two, but that tends to happen to all rookies, doesn't matter what position. I don't know why you concentrate on one stat for players instead of the whole picture, and then you try to skew it even further by saying "well Tomlin went for it on fourth a lot, and I'm betting that most of his kicks inside the 20 were around the 50"...
If that's the case, then here's a news flash, Tomlin is still the head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers, so those same decisions will carry over. So if Monday is the better player, he is going to have to show the ability to pin an opponent deep and not just try to crush the ball every time. 33 touchbacks is A LOT, I don't care what level of play and the coverage he has...that's putting the ball into the EZ way too often.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2014
- Messages
- 33,194
- Reaction score
- 35,612
- Points
- 113
- Location
- between $2 short & ten buck two
Again, I'm just hoping for some VERY stiff competition between the two. Our coaches who see daily views will make the right choice. If the new kid makes Berry step it up then so be it. JUST take the best player overall of the two. Simple as that..............
Salute the nation
Salute the nation
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2014
- Messages
- 878
- Reaction score
- 413
- Points
- 63
Monday's are one depressing if you hate your job and if you do your life sucks. My Monday's are all about $$$$$! Maybe both are great and we can trade one for a 6th rounder.
Kicking 40 yards and pinning your opponent inside their own 10 yard line is much better than booming it 50+ yard through the end zone and giving it to them at the 20. No amount of double-speak or interpretation of stats changes that.
So we'll see who has more control over their punts and placement, not just who can kick it the farthest.
So we'll see who has more control over their punts and placement, not just who can kick it the farthest.
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2015
- Messages
- 15,544
- Reaction score
- 3,801
- Points
- 113
When you kick at Duke your offense isn't often in positon to drop a punt inside the 20, and the coverage units are pretty poor. I think Monday has a faster 2 step, a bigger leg, and better hang time. He's also an option on 4th downs to run or pass, and I'd bett better at tackling on punt returns too. With our offense and coverage units, he'll drop more inside the 20.
# Punter battle!
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2014
- Messages
- 2,244
- Reaction score
- 2,165
- Points
- 113
You really are thick headed aren't you. He had THIRTY THREE touchbacks, that has nothing to do with coverage, or offenses, and EVERYTHING to do with HIM. 88 inside the 20, and 33 touchbacks, means that he had 121 chances to pin an opponent, and more than a quarter of the time, he gave it to them on the 20. 27% is HORRIBLE for touchback numbers. I'm not knocking the kid for having a big leg, he just has no control over his distance. That's a HUGE concern.
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2015
- Messages
- 15,544
- Reaction score
- 3,801
- Points
- 113
Where are you getting your data from? Last year it says Monday punted 60 times, with 29 inside the 20-yard line. That's 48.3% of his punts inside the 20. By contrast last year Berry punted it 59 times and had 28 touchbacks, or 47.4% of his punts were inside the 20.
Now Einstein, who was better at downing punts inside the 20 last year? And you call me dense? Here's your chance to say I made a mistake. Man up.
Also, if you can't acknowledge that a good kick cover team has something to do with downing punts inside the 20....
02/2015 - 2015 ATLANTIC COAST CONFERENCE THIRD TEAM (MEDIA): P Will Monday, Sr.-R, Duke, 39/150 Votes...Monday, a 6-4, 210-pound native of Flowery Branch, Ga., has punted 60 times for 2,616 yards and a 43.60 yards per kick average while downing 29 boots inside the opponent 20-yard line. In addition, he has compiled a league-high 19 punts of 50-plus yards. This marks Monday's fourth consecutive All-ACC honor as he was a first-team choice in 2012 and a third team selection in both 2013 and 2014. - Duke Football
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1850757/will-monday
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2014
- Messages
- 2,244
- Reaction score
- 2,165
- Points
- 113
You can't even type a proper argument. First off, Berry punted 59 times, and only had TWO touchbacks. That's where the ball goes into the endzone buddy...
Second, I didn't take his TOTAL number of punts, I took the total number of punts downed inside the 20 and added the touchbacks. That's how you get how many opportunities he had to pin an opponent deep inside their own 20. I mean, even the casual fan knows that not every punt is going to have the opportunity to be downed inside the 20. So go back, try and figure out the stats again. And I was going with Mondays CAREER STATS which YOU YOURSELF POSTED IN THIS VERY THREAD! You can't even get your boy Monday's stats right. Last year he punted 65 times, had 31 inside the 20 and 13 toucbacks...again HORRIBLE numbers.
Also, you're generalizing when you discuss Duke's offense over the life of their team, but in this situation, you're off. They've been bowl eligible all 4 years he's punted there, so they are no longer a doormat. Though their offense was average his freshman year, they've been above the line for the last 3.
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2015
- Messages
- 15,544
- Reaction score
- 3,801
- Points
- 113
Where are you getting your data from? Last year it says Monday punted 60 times, with 29 inside the 20-yard line. That's 48.3% of his punts inside the 20. By contrast last year Berry punted it 59 times and had 28 touchbacks, or 47.4% of his punts were inside the 20.
Now Einstein, who was better at downing punts inside the 20 last year? And you call me dense? Here's your chance to say I made a mistake. Man up.
Also, if you can't acknowledge that a good kick cover team has something to do with downing punts inside the 20....
02/2015 - 2015 ATLANTIC COAST CONFERENCE THIRD TEAM (MEDIA): P Will Monday, Sr.-R, Duke, 39/150 Votes...Monday, a 6-4, 210-pound native of Flowery Branch, Ga., has punted 60 times for 2,616 yards and a 43.60 yards per kick average while downing 29 boots inside the opponent 20-yard line. In addition, he has compiled a league-high 19 punts of 50-plus yards. This marks Monday's fourth consecutive All-ACC honor as he was a first-team choice in 2012 and a third team selection in both 2013 and 2014. - Duke Football
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/p...57/will-monday
Now if you use Monday's career stats, he punted 260 times, and had 33 touchbacks in 4 years, or 12.6% of his punts were touchbacks. Not much of an issue
I said Berry punted 59 times in this thread. I color coded if for you above this time. You, sir, have reading issues. Re-read it again in this post above.
I also gave links and showed you the percentages of punts last year downed inside the 20, and Monday was slightly better. Now you're having a hissy fit.
If there is something wrong with the link I used, point it out.
Now Einstein, who was better at downing punts inside the 20 last year? And you call me dense? Here's your chance to say I made a mistake. Man up.
Also, if you can't acknowledge that a good kick cover team has something to do with downing punts inside the 20....
02/2015 - 2015 ATLANTIC COAST CONFERENCE THIRD TEAM (MEDIA): P Will Monday, Sr.-R, Duke, 39/150 Votes...Monday, a 6-4, 210-pound native of Flowery Branch, Ga., has punted 60 times for 2,616 yards and a 43.60 yards per kick average while downing 29 boots inside the opponent 20-yard line. In addition, he has compiled a league-high 19 punts of 50-plus yards. This marks Monday's fourth consecutive All-ACC honor as he was a first-team choice in 2012 and a third team selection in both 2013 and 2014. - Duke Football
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/p...57/will-monday
Now if you use Monday's career stats, he punted 260 times, and had 33 touchbacks in 4 years, or 12.6% of his punts were touchbacks. Not much of an issue
I said Berry punted 59 times in this thread. I color coded if for you above this time. You, sir, have reading issues. Re-read it again in this post above.
I also gave links and showed you the percentages of punts last year downed inside the 20, and Monday was slightly better. Now you're having a hissy fit.
If there is something wrong with the link I used, point it out.
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2015
- Messages
- 15,544
- Reaction score
- 3,801
- Points
- 113
Duke, who plays a softer scehdule was 36th in offense, and out of the top 50 offenses only one team scored less touchdowns.
In the past 54 years, they only cracked the top 25 once, and it was at spot # 22.
Sure they played 4 bowl game recently. They are 1-3 here. Making a bowl game is no big deal these days. What are there 40 bowl games these days? How many teams is that?
If they were in the SEC or Big Ten, Duke would be a doormat. They are an average ACC Team. Nothing more than that.
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2014
- Messages
- 5,307
- Reaction score
- 4,795
- Points
- 113
Punters don't matter anymore.
The old-timer GM's and coaches still treat special teams and field position like it's 1975 when teams succeeded in keeping drives alive on a set of downs 50% of time. Now it's 70%. Field position is constantly moving now. Teams are getting 1st downs all the time. With ease. From all points on the field.
If anything, what is much more important is punt COVERAGE. Don't give up the big play, no matter what. I'd much rather average a 40 yard punt average and have everyone a fair catch that 45 yard punt average and have 4-5 huge punt returns against.
There is just no correlation between punting average and wins/losses in the NFL. Especially today's NFL.
There is some correlation between BIG plays in the return game (+/- against your team) and wins/losses, but it's still not that significant.
Kickers matter - XP and FG percentage directly relate to points converted per possession. Kick returns and punt returns do not matter unless your are significantly tilting the odds of big plays in your favor.
The old-timer GM's and coaches still treat special teams and field position like it's 1975 when teams succeeded in keeping drives alive on a set of downs 50% of time. Now it's 70%. Field position is constantly moving now. Teams are getting 1st downs all the time. With ease. From all points on the field.
If anything, what is much more important is punt COVERAGE. Don't give up the big play, no matter what. I'd much rather average a 40 yard punt average and have everyone a fair catch that 45 yard punt average and have 4-5 huge punt returns against.
There is just no correlation between punting average and wins/losses in the NFL. Especially today's NFL.
There is some correlation between BIG plays in the return game (+/- against your team) and wins/losses, but it's still not that significant.
Kickers matter - XP and FG percentage directly relate to points converted per possession. Kick returns and punt returns do not matter unless your are significantly tilting the odds of big plays in your favor.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 9,586
- Reaction score
- 12,764
- Points
- 113
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2014
- Messages
- 2,244
- Reaction score
- 2,165
- Points
- 113
Ok, I'll try this one more time. In your post, which you have graciously color coded (hopefully it makes it easier for you to pick out your huge ******* mistake), you say that Berry had 28 touchbacks...get it touchbacks. Berry had TWO touchbacks last season. As you and I both know, there's a big difference between inside the 20 and a touchback, which is the basis for this whole argument. You're wrong, so your stats also cannot be trusted.
Your percentages are also taking into account TOTAL punts. Mine are just the punts that were within the distance to be able to be put inside the 20. For example, Monday's career long is 79 yards, it was not from or around the 50 yard line, where most punts that are downed inside the 20 are kicked from. Coincidentally, Berry's career long is also 79 yards, so he has a capable leg as well.
NOW, if you JUST look at punts from around the 50 yard line (you can get these by taking the punts that WERE downed inside the 20 and adding the punts that went into the endzone), you will see where I got my numbers from.
Yes there is something wrong with the link that you used, it's not correct. The stats they have for Monday only list his inside the 20, but not his touchbacks (probably because it makes him look bad), it's also not correct on how many total punts he had, or how many he had inside the 20. I got my stats from the Duke athletics website. (here: http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=205152826)
So now that I have explained it to you for a second time, and am STILL correct...come at me with something else, because the only person struggling to read anything in this thread, is you Mr Troy's head is too big and thus makes him shorter, oh and he's not a 4.4 guy, he's more like a 4.43 guy....numbnuts
Duke, a team that couldn't win over 6 games since 1989, has just done it 4 times in a row. Diminish it all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that they are no longer a doormat, and they are working into a respectable program.
Wow, never went above #22. Top 50 ain't too shabby when the league is 125+ teams.
There are power conferences and the ACC is one of them, albeit not as good as the SEC or Big 10 Obviously, but your argument was Monday punted more because their offense and team sucked. You are wrong there. They were above average to very good his 4 years there, so your point doesn't hold.
Not every post is meant to be taken literally. See, there is thing called HUMOR . . .
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2015
- Messages
- 15,544
- Reaction score
- 3,801
- Points
- 113
If you want to defend one of the worst rated punters in the NFL, have at it.
Now that we have the 59 number down, the 28 number is punts inside the 20 for Berry. I was saying that Monday has a higher punting average average and a higher percentage of his punts inside the 20 last year. You ignroed that, as well as the fact that Monday is a better 4th down option. These are my key points.
Berry rated 29th in punting in the NFL, with 42.6 yards per punt, and was 24th in net at 39.1 per punt.
In terms of touchbacks, it appears that the NFL average is about 4-5 per year. So 2 on paper looks good for Berry, however, he only punted it 59 times. The guys who average 4-5 touchbacks per year often punted it 15-30 more times.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2014
- Messages
- 2,244
- Reaction score
- 2,165
- Points
- 113
And Monday punted 65 times with THIRTEEN ******* TOUCHBACKS. So you give him 6 more punts, and he still puts 11 more into the EZ...Berry also had VERY FEW punts even RETURNED AT ALL! He has great hangtime. This whole "he's a fourth down option" crap is based on what? His 3.5 average one two whole rushes? IF we go for it on fourth down, we use our offense to do it. How does Monday help?
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2014
- Messages
- 2,244
- Reaction score
- 2,165
- Points
- 113
If we did that with every thread on here, there wouldn't be a message board. Hell, a lot of your posts are arguments that can never be settled. When you criticize Tomlin and Colbert and think that you could do better, or when you don't agree with one of their draft picks.
But because THIS argument happens to be about punters, and you feel that punters don't matter, we should just let it go and wait until september...
I love this place, smh